E552 | Constant Progress With 5 Years In The Mastermind With Jamie Yoder

Today, I am joined by O.G. Mastermind member, Jamie Yoder! We catch up on life, his practice, and much more! This interview came from a Livestream we did in the P.T. Entrepreneurs Facebook group, so if you're not a member, head to the link below.

• Why Jamie continues to work with P.T. Biz
• Getting the right people through the door
• Developing your network with the right people

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] So there's all kinds of hidden fees within your business that are just part of doing business. One of those is credit card. Processing and for us, we didn't even realize how much we were paying in credit card processing with the first management software we were using for our practice. And when we switched over to PT everywhere, we just realized we were saving literally hundreds of dollars a month with credit card processing with their partner with Card point versus who we were using with our prior.

Software. This has made a massive difference. It's more than paid for itself. It allows us to decrease our overhead. It allows us to have more cash flow to reinvest in our people, in our technology, in our facility, in marketing and everything that's gonna drive the business. So don't get abused by credit card processing companies.

Make sure you're paying what you should pay. And if you're looking for a management software, highly recommend PT everywhere directly integrates with a. Processor makes it very easy and their rates are super, super competitive. So it's saved us a ton of money and it probably will do the same for you if you don't know what you are getting charged.

So head over to PT everywhere. Take a look at what they've [00:01:00] got. I think you really like it. So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't wanna see 30 patients a day, who don't wanna work home health and have real student loans create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about?

This is the question, and this podcast is the answer. My name's Danny Matte, and welcome to the PT Entrepreneur Podcast.

Okay, what's going on guys? Dr. Danny here with PT Entrepreneur Podcast, and today we're going live in the Facebook group as well. So if you're not a member of the PT Entrepreneur's Facebook group head over there, there's about 5,500 or so other clinicians in there talking about business and helping each other out.

It's pretty cool resource. But we're gonna start doing more of these, you know, highlighting some of the businesses that you know, business owners in particular that we know pretty well and just sharing their story. And one of the people that I know probably better than. [00:02:00] Any other business owner that we've worked with is a guy we get a chance to talk to today.

And it's Jamie Yoder James. I guess people are calling you James now that you're, not, that you're an adult. But Jamie, Jamie Yoder onsite PT is the name of his practice in Cleveland, Ohio. And you know what's cool about about us is, is in the, the very first group of businesses that I started working with.

You know, James is one of the very first ones and somebody that I, that's been around, you know, with what we've done with PT Biz from the beginning when we could all sit at a table together for dinner. Like, not, not, not like a super long table, but like literally a round table. Like you would, you would go to dinner with your friends small enough to be able to do that.

And for me to be able to see, you know, the evolution of coming in, just having this this side hustle in, you know, in a gym. And then expanding, you know, over the years to where you are now with, you know, having like your, your own standalone space, all these partnerships coming your [00:03:00] way, you know, just the growth has been pretty awesome to watch.

And also like understanding the work that you've put in is really cool to see as well. So yeah, I'm excited to have a conversation and highlight that stuff. So anyway, James, Jamie, I keep calling you. Jamie, tell me which one, which one is it at this point?

Jamie: Yeah, I mean, I, I tried to make the switch when I turned 30 to James, kind of in the professional world.

Danny: It's too late, dude. It's too late

Jamie: in May. I know. And I always tell people maybe like 45, I'll, I'll make the switch to Jim. There's a few select people that have started calling me that already. But yeah, that's like the natural transition. Yeah. When your, when your name is James. I think so. Well, you, it's hard to get away from it,

Danny: dude, what happened to me?

So my name is Daniel and the only people that call me that it's my mom when I, she's mad at, and even to this day, I, you know, I'm a. I have my own kids and if she gets upset with me, she changes my name back to Daniel. I've been called [00:04:00] Danny my whole life, but when I joined the Army and I would introduce myself to, especially to like another officer or senior officer, they always wanna know your first name.

So it's always kind of awkward. You don't know, like, do I say Captain Matte? Do I say, oh, hi, I'm Captain Danny Matay. You know, he is like, they won't know your first name, especially if they're senior to you. And every single time they'd be like, ah, great to meet you, Dan. And they would change my name to Dan, and then everybody would think my name is Dan.

And then they would say, Dan and I wouldn't know who they were talking to. And so it's confusing, man. I feel bad for you. I know exactly what you're going through. It's

Jamie: the same thing happens to me with older folks, especially older guys. Older patients, you know, 55, 60 plus. Like my accountant just, you know, in the emails, he's, he's just like, all right, Jim here's what I got for you.

And I'm like, what the heck, man? You've never called me. You know? So it seems like that older generation just, you know, gravitates to Jim naturally. So, you know, maybe

Danny: they're thinking to themself like, Jim is is [00:05:00] more of like a, that's more of a manly name. Jamie. Sure. Could be a girl as well. Definitely.

They're trying to do you a favor potentially. Yeah,

Jamie: definitely. I definitely know more girls named Jamie than guys. So maybe that's what prompted the switch. You're like,

Danny: Courtney, when we, when we, when I first talked to Courtney I thought Courtney was a girl and when he picked up the phone and it's apparent right away that.

He's not, I couldn't help myself. And, and I was like, whoa, I thought you were a girl. And he goes, people, that's, I get that all the time,

Jamie: man. And you know,

Danny: so No, I, I, I get it. But anyway, your name, transition, you know, the evolution of your name, the evolution of your business is what we're gonna get into today.

But I'm always curious about, Clinicians and how they ended up in the profession. Because, you know, most of us, the, the, the story I hear the most is like athlete injury exposure to something, and then in the profession, what, what, what prompted you to want to go into physical therapy over all these other things [00:06:00] we could do?

Jamie: Yeah, I mean, I think the story's not super different. I was really, my dad was a high school basketball coach. I was super into basketball. Probably not the best choice for a six foot, not that athletic guy. But I was obsessed with, I was always really obsessed with optimizing my athleticism and my body and, you know, All those kind of things was always really fascinating to me.

So I didn't decide I was gonna go to pt. Like I didn't really know what I was gonna do. I didn't decide I was gonna go to pt. It's not like I definitely wasn't somebody that was like, I want, I've wanted to be a PT my whole life. And I ended up getting into PT school. I didn't really have a lot of other grade options.

There was definitely multiple times during PT school with, during certain rotations where I was like, this is terrible, you know? And I knew for sure that I, I wanted to do, you know, some type of orthopedic outpatient you know, sports performance type. Right from the jump when I got into [00:07:00] PT school.

But I think the, the big thing for me, I never, nobody in my family, family has ever had a business. I never imagined that I would ha you know, start my own practice. It kind of more probably like a lot of people came out of necessity more than anything else. And I think that for me, I had, you know, A couple pretty n pretty good injuries, surgeries when I played college hoops and at a small school and at a high school without a ton of resources.

I mean, I grew up in the middle of nowhere in Ohio you know, an hour and 20 minutes from any kind of city. I always felt like I didn't have a lot of help. And, and you know, there's a lot of people I feel like in that. World where you're, you care a lot about what you're doing, you've put a lot of time into something and, and and other people don't care as much as you do.

And then so I felt like that from the patient side and then. When I got into PT school and when I [00:08:00] started working I worked at a pretty good outpatient facility, kind of affiliated with Ohio University. I wouldn't call it a high volume clinic but you know, we still saw, you know, 10 to 15 a day and, and I certainly felt like.

Because of all the demands, right? That, that, that there's so much stuff that you have to do other than helping the patient. I just felt like I was now becoming this person that couldn't care as much about this person in front of me. And I had saw that from the other side and and so, you know, I didn't like that feeling.

And so that's kind of, I think what got me moving in this direction and, and kind of where I, you know, where we're at today. So, Did you, was

Danny: there like a, a specific moment, you know, where you're like, dude, I can't do this shit anymore. I gotta figure out a better way to work with people and, cause it sounds like for you, there's a, there's a frustration with not being able to Set up things and work with people the way that you would've wanted to [00:09:00] through a, you know, through a full plan of care.

And in particular, probably some of the sports performance stuff that you were interested in anyway. So was it, was there like a particular moment that was like, I can't do this anymore, I'm frustrated? Or was it sort of like a slow, you know, gradual, you know, growing to that point where you decided I gotta do my own thing?

Jamie: Yeah, I think that I got to a point about three or four years in where a lot of things were ha like in my life where I was kind of, I had been living down around Ohio University where I went to PT school and I was ready to kind of move out of there. I had met a gal that I was, you know, knew that I wanted to, to marry someday, and she was moving.

And it just, that timing at, at the same time, I just got to this point in my life where I was like, Like, what am I doing? Like, you know and it maybe I was like 27, 28 and, and before then it, I was just kind of going through them. Like I was learning a lot and I did an o ooc s like, you know, residency and orthopedics and, but I got to a point where I was like, man, I don't really [00:10:00] like what I'm doing day to day.

Like, it's not terrible. And but it's not, it's definitely not anywhere near like a dream job or anything like that. And so that was, that was a, that was really hard, like stressful time. You know, and I remember, I remember when I first started looking into this, I moved up to Cleveland and just did like, I.

For like six months. I did like you know, travel, travel, like home care, travel, sniff, and I was like, maybe this won't be that bad. The, the pay is pretty good. After like two weeks I was like, this is awful. Like, you know amazing. The people that are able to do that type of work, it's obviously important, but Not for me.

And so it was a really, it was a really stressful time. Kind of a, and there's probably a lot of people in that position and it's kind of like there's a lot more resources now I feel like, than there was in 2016 when I first started looking into this stuff. I remember downloading like, The Jared Carter ebook[00:11:00] and reading that and then like getting into some Kelly Star at stuff.

And I think that's where, where I started to listen to one of your podcasts and you know, st and, and then just started kind of putting things in motion you know, to move in this direction. So, Yeah. You know, and I,

Danny: I have a hard time even remembering how we got connected originally, because, you know, I think of some of the folks that we first started working with and like, you know, like I knew Eve cuz we had worked together previously.

He did consulting with me on starting his practice up and then Kingsley, he and I had been involved with mobility WA at the time. He was, you know, coming on to, to work as a, like an assistant instructor and get involved with what's now the ready state. And you know, But I forget, like sometimes, you know, where, where things come from.

So what was your first exposure? Was it the podcast? Was it through like somebody that Doc and

Jamie: Jock? Yeah, I, I was listening to Doc and Jock and, and a couple Kelly start podcasts and and you know, I, to be honest with you, I try, I did like this [00:12:00] pole golf thing online and, and I just like, there was some decent information in there, but.

I just felt like this wasn't the type of people that, you know, I didn't really fit in with that group. And and so I think I you know, I think I just, I had reached out to you guys a couple times just with questions and I was like, they're probably not gonna answer this. Just about like, what type of bands do you guys use for this, like, very granular things and.

I think Ashley sent me links and then, and then we linked up on a call and, and you, you know, looking back, like a lot of the sales stuff you used with patients, you definitely used on, on us, on me. A lot of the stuff that you teach, that you teach us, that you guys teach But I was like, you know, I gotta, I gotta give this a run because I tried to, kind of tried to figure things out on my own for, you know, 4, 5, 6 months at least.

And and I'm very, I'm very, if there's one thing about owning a business, you'd become very

Danny: self-aware. [00:13:00] You,

Jamie: you or, or you'll probably fail if you don't. Sure. And for me, I think that, I'm very good at just kind of like putting my head down and like doing the work and that can get you to a really difficult place, like with your relationships.

And I mean, I was working a ton at different places. No organization like, you know, didn't really know what I was doing. Nobody in my family, my parents are teachers, like nobody in my family had much business acumen. So when I had the opportunity to jump into that initial cohort and a lot of the people.

Kind of spoke the same language as me, so to speak. It was kind of a no-brainer. But, you know, I'm, I'm a pretty, I've had to work through, definitely coming from a really small town in Ohio, a lot of money mindset issues and very conservative. And so, you know, even back then, like. The amount, the amount of [00:14:00] money, the investment was very stressful at first.

But at the same time, like, you know, we have that same conversation with our patients all the time, and so it would be hypocritical of me to not push the envelope and invest in what I'm doing and what our business is doing as well. So, oh,

Danny: I think it's very scary. You know, for, I mean, I think about.

The, the first, you know, sort of business development stuff that I ever did, you know, even going to a business conference, you know, it's funny, I was talking to Heidi, Heidi Genega, the owner of Web PT the other day, and, and the first business conference I ever went to was in 2015. They had the Ascend Business Conference, actually still do this day.

And at the time I'd been in business for like, It's not even a year, man. Right. So and, and there was a few hundred people always like one of the first first ones that they did. And it's intimidating. And it's also like, man, this, this conference is like a thousand bucks or whatever. And, and then I gotta travel here.

I gotta take time from doing these other [00:15:00] things and I just don't know if it's worth it and, you know, what am I gonna learn? And, and then, you know what you realize, I think to what you just said, being self-aware and. Knowing, understanding that there's things that you don't know and you can, you can learn them.

But if you're trying to piece it all together yourself, In particular with the thing that is providing for your family. That's kind of the way I look at it. It's like, why? Why am I, why am I trying to be so stubborn or, and, and just not actually like trying to figure out what's already work and work with people that have already done this, and then just go faster because I.

You know, I don't only, the only reason you wouldn't do that is because you have your ego where you want to be able to have this claim where it's like, oh, I'm completely self-made. I figured out everything by myself. But that's just not the case for anybody. Like, that's just, and if, if they try to do that, they probably actually didn't have all that much success.

Everybody has mentors in different ways. And the fastest way that I've found is find whoever you're trying to emulate and that also has a life that you want. I think that's the other thing. I know a lot of people that are successful in business and they're on their third marriage. They [00:16:00] don't talk to their kids.

They're completely unhealthy and yeah, they have a lot of money, but they're winning in like one, one of the scores in life, you know, that we look at, like they're killing it there and they're off the rail, so their average sucks. And we just want to have like a balanced life, an extraordinary life, you know, a life of adventure with our family, you know, and our friends and, and be healthy and happy and like, Money's not the most important thing.

It, it does allow us to do the things we wanna do in life, and it's a byproduct of providing a lot of value to other people. But, you know, I think you gotta look for somebody that's trying to, that that has a life that's similar to you, hope that you hope to have one day as well.

Jamie: Yeah. I mean, and I think, you know, there's a, there's a, there's.

Over the past five years, there's, there's some options out there when it comes to mentorship in this, this world. But I think for me, like, you know you know, we spoke briefly about this before we started the podcast, like or, or this video. I think that I've been in this group for, you know, since its inception and I have new [00:17:00] members and people that are just starting their businesses out asking me why I'm still in the group.

When they find out like, I'm an og right? And I think it's this, this group is kind of a niche within the cash PT out network world. And so, and I think that's important because you kind of, it's like, I, I think about the parallel between like training and, and stuff with patients. Like you have to find something you like doing and something.

You know, people you like being around in a community that you enjoy spending time talking to and, and like that kind of speaks the same language as you. I think that's really important. And You know, just like some of these other groups, it's just I see some of the stuff and the content and, and it just you know, it's not, not that there's not versatility and, and, you know, everybody's exactly the same, but I think there's similar values with a lot of the people in, in the PT VIS group, and that's been really helpful too to kind of streamline, you [00:18:00] know, some of the content that, that we can take and that we can.

You know, use more effectively, more, more quickly, basically.

Danny: Yeah, and I think the other dude, the other big thing, and I'd love to, you know, it's, it's interesting to hear your perspective because you know, we, so much has changed and evolved, right? Like we started with six people, we have 200 people, right?

Like every year we get together, it sort of, you know, it grows. And the challenge is to make sure that we are getting the right people in the room and. And, and having the people that are not the right fit, we're able to transition them to whatever other options are best for them, but that it just may not be us.

And, you know, that's, that's a difficult thing to do at scale. I think that's the hardest thing that we found. But it's something that we work really hard on because the last thing, and you know, and I see this in other groups that I've been a part of, so I got a certain size, there's just a bunch of assholes now, and it starts to become real competitive again.

And it starts to become like, you know, [00:19:00] this, it's not a positive competitive. You know, environment, which exists. And I think that we do, do you have that? We see people that are like, all right, I want to, I see where you're at. I'm chasing you. You know, and I hope you kill it too, but like, I'm gonna try really hard and keeping egos out of it is tough, man.

So, you know, I think that's, that's been something that we tried really hard to do. But, you know, for you, people like yourself that have been around for as long as we have, like, it really just starts with that core element of the, you know, the, the folks that are like yourself that are. Now in a lot of ways, like mentoring other people inherently in live events, like they, they wanna know what you're doing.

You have a name tag that is like, you know, a color that gives you some credibility, you know, and, and so like, what's that been like to be in a position where it's almost like a mentorship position in a way, you know, with other business owners? Yeah. I

Jamie: mean that's, I think I, when people ask me about, you know, why I've stuck around and, and asked me some of those questions.

I think that again, going back to kind of like being self-aware [00:20:00] and understanding and, and that sometimes understanding some of these things doesn't happen overnight. Like it took me probably a s a coup a year maybe at, around there to figure some of these things out about myself that you're just kind of blind to.

But you know, for me, like I always tell people I'm, I'm very competitive. I try to do as good of a job keeping my ego in check. Cause I think that's really important. And I, and I have kind of this grind stick to it, you know, strong will mentality, but I'm also a little bit, I can be unorganized at times.

I, I can I can get, I can get a little bit comfortable. I think. I mean I really value family time, friends, stuff like that. I don't have this story that, you know, where I like didn't see anyone for, you hear these stories on podcasts of people that like started making, you know, grew their business at this insane rate and ate ramen [00:21:00] noodles and, you know, didn't spend any money and didn't go out to dinner.

And, you know, like, That wasn't gonna work for me. And that's not what I wanted. And, and so I think that understanding some of those things about yourself and, and just aside from all the knowledge that's available in a group like this just. Keeping you kind of check in, check with some of those things that you understand about your time yourself, and it kind of, it forces you to dedicate time to this.

And again, I look at a lot of parallels between what we tell our patients. And like about, you know, you know, improving and growing and kind of the journey. And I think it's the same thing for us sometimes is, you know, if you're not accountable and you're not consistent with stuff, things aren't gonna change.

And I know myself and I know that if I'm not in a group like this, like I think that you know, that will be something that kind of falls by the way, wayside. And then you talked about some of the changes in the group as you guys have had to scale up and, you know, adjust what you're doing [00:22:00] and. I mean, quite frankly, the con it's the group's way better than it was the first, you know, like six to 12 months.

Where there's, there's multiple people aside from yourself. There's, there's coaches that have come on board that have different skill sets. There's tons of content. There's tons of plug and play things. I mean, just I remember when I went to hire a pt, I was like, Like, I don't know how to make like a legit good looking p PT job description.

I've never done this. There's been, and then, oh, like somebody's got a great one right here. I can just make some tweaks to Yeah. Instead of that taking four hours, it took 30 minutes and probably is way better. So there's just countless times that things like that happen and and so you have those plug and play options as well.

And I think, you know, the last thing I would say is our discussions aren't, when we do have. When I have mentorship time or opportunities to chat with you or for, you know, Eve or some of the other people in the group, like our discussions are a lot different than [00:23:00] they were you know, when we first started.

I'm not. We're not discussing how to get more patients as much like we're discussing how, like, you know, what would you do to try to, what are my steps to, to buying a, my own building? What are my steps to, should I, you know, personal things even with when it comes to real estate and stuff like that. So There's that side of things where you can have those higher level conversations, but also you guys have so much data now to provide to I think the entry level people that are starting their business.

Cuz you've had the, so many of these conversations that's just invaluable. So that's I think what I tell or, or some of the key points of what I've discussed with people that have just jumped into a group or are thinking about getting into it. Well, it's, you

Danny: know, honestly, it's great to hear that because, you know, behind the, behind the scenes, I guess if, if we're to put it that way, we, we do have a lot of data and it's interesting, like I've had multiple business consultants tell us that we just need to create a [00:24:00] franchise out of this.

And just like, hey, creative franchise, maybe you'll keep 50% of the people that you're working with. Everybody else will leave. And the enterprise value of it will go up by like 10 x, right? And. It, it's on paper. You would look at that and most people say on business decision, this makes complete sense.

I look at that and I'm like, this ruins something that we've just worked so fucking hard to try to build and it would make absolutely no sense from a personal standpoint to do so. And I feel like there's this in interesting give and take. With you know, we work with people a year at a time, and if we do a bad job, then they have everything that they've worked with us on.

They have their business, they can, they can go and do whatever they want, and they have, there's no, there's no reason that they would need to stick around. It's up to us to continue to iterate and evolve. And provide value so that each year they have to look at this and say, is this worth it? You know, for me to continue to work with this group.

And we, we enjoy that pressure cuz it forces us to continue to, you know, make it, make this better. And I almost look at it [00:25:00] like the, like this franchise model I. I just feel like it's such a bad, it's just a broken system. It's just, it's very one-sided. And you know, for us, what we look at is like, well, why can't we have the same benefits of that?

Like the similarities in terms of pool data and resources and systems that are tested across multiple, you know, different practices, share that. But then also allow the creativity of the entrepreneur to say, well, I want my logo to look like this and this is the nit I want to focus on. And oh, hey, this is sort of this element that I wanna add on, or this is what I want my space to look like.

And all the enjoyable parts that you get taken away from you when it's like, Hey, it has to be this red and you have to use this, you know, marketing brochure or whatever. Like, you don't get the creativity side, which I think is actually one of the most, the fun parts of owning a business in general. Like, I remember getting so excited about my logo and we redid it cuz we actually had a.

We actually paid to get it redone versus like we had just like five bucks. We got our first logo and then we had somebody go through it and I was like, this is awesome. Like, I wanted a little darker of blue. You know what, I want like this to look that way. And it just was so much fun for me to do that.

And that's the creative side. So I love the fact that you guys [00:26:00] can still do that and you know, you're building these skills that can transfer into so many other areas outside of your own practice if you decide to do that as well.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I agree with all that stuff, man. I mean, it's just it's It's kind of, again, it's, it's like that discussion that you have with you.

You got, you're forced to kind of have more skin in the game because you start to develop relationships with the people in the group, and you, you, it's impossible not to care about 'em. And people can see through that bullshit when there's not enough, there's no sincerity. And it, it's it's, it's, I, I, you know, I hate to keep saying this, but I feel like that with patience, you know, like.

You in our, in this model that we create. Like, you have to care more unless you're just a huge asshole. Yeah. And like I when I was, you know, even, like I said, I wasn't in a crazy high volume clinic, but I. It was hard for me to care as much. I had too many other things to do. You know, I, it, it was hard for me to go that extra mile [00:27:00] for people just because and so I think that it's, it's, it's similar with this group, you know, if you guys were to, to do something like that versus what we have in place now and you know you can't, like one, I had a review once from a patient that said one of the biggest things that they Took from our time together was they could, and this has always stuck with me.

They could, it was very clear the level of concern that I had that we had about them. And I remember like, I feel like that in this group I feel like The coaches, the, the people in the, the group. There's a, there's a level of concern in a good way. You know, not like they're concerned about this person, but you see what I'm saying?

Yeah. And and just that, that we actually care about patients. And that's really important to me. And I think it, it comes through very obviously, that it's the same, you know, Same thing in the group, so,

Danny: well, no, totally. And I think you're right. The, the amount in [00:28:00] which you care about your patients is very apparent to them.

You know, like it's, it's so obvious. And when somebody is actually listening to somebody else. They can tell versus if somebody is like distracted because they have, you know, 10 questionnaires they have to finish and these notes that they haven't caught up on, like in particular, I remember being in these high volume settings where I would, the only way I could get out of there without staying for an hour afterward and, and this would include me typing up notes and everything over lunch, would be to.

Document some of the subjective while we were talking, and that is like the worst way to build rapport with somebody, you know? Because like it'd be like me, I'm looking over here and I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, that hurts how that happened. Okay. And then, oh, what was that? Mechanisms injury. Okay. And then I would type these things in because it was in my template.

I. And it would save me time. And I look back on it and I'm like, man, what a disservice I did to all those people by just not actually just sitting there and looking at them and sitting down and being like, dude, what's up man? Tell me what happened. You know? And just [00:29:00] let's have a conversation about what's going on.

And we get a chance to do that because of the volume that we have, the, the, the burden of not having quite as much documentation. These other sort of questionnaires and insurance verifications and all that stuff. And I think that's like the greatest part of all of it, man, is that you get to have this human connection.

You get, they feel it because they're like, whoa, dude, you're, you're actually paying attention to me. And how many people, and this is the thing that always threw me off and I didn't realize what was happening initially, is how many people I would have that would break down. They would actually cry in my office.

And that happened to me. One time in the Army once, and it was awkward as hell because I didn't know what to do. I just sort of sat there and waited for them to stop. And I was like,

Jamie: are you, you good? You know, and

Danny: they're, they're like, oh, yeah, I'm okay. And I've had so many patients cry in my office just because they're like able to express this frustration they have and no one listens to them, you know?

And so, I mean, think about that, dude. You're, you're like, it's literally the greatest part and. You're impacting people in such a way that they feel so compelled to wanna share with you and develop that [00:30:00] trust that it's, it's hard to do

Jamie: in healthcare. Yeah. I mean, It's just a completely different, it's a completely different situation with patients and the model, you know, and, and I think you have to you have to make sure that you're getting the right people in the door too.

But cuz not everybody cares and values things as much. And that's hard too. I mean, when you, when you get those patients that want to come in that Are just looking for like, eh, I've done this before. Like, show me some stuff to do, whatever. And you have to be able to say no to some people. And you know, especially when you're first starting out, like that can be really stressful cuz you, you kind of take it personal, like, and I think you do need to reflect on what you could have done differently.

But you know, I think that's important on the other side of things too. So. Well, let's,

Danny: let's talk about growth because I know you've had you say slow growth, but, and, and. It's all relative, right? Like we have, we have some people that we've worked with and they're just, they go bananas, right? They're going from just starting a practice [00:31:00] to, you know, a seven figure practice in like, Three years which is, which is just fast, like really, really fast and not normal.

As well as there's very little balance that happens with that. You know, when, when we look at where you're at it, I mean, and part of this is just like purely, you know, if we look at numbers, right? Do you remember what your first year of like top line revenue was and then what you're projecting to be at this year?

Jamie: Yeah. I mean, I know that to get, to get into the group in 2000, what was it, 2017 or 18 or something? It was 17. Yeah. Yeah. I, the covid years always throw me off there, but I know we had to be doing 5,000 a month to get into the group, and I definitely wasn't you know, so maybe 3000, 3,500 a month.

So that first year when it was kind of a side hustle you know, top line revenue was probably a. Maybe 50 grand. Yeah. And so now, I mean, we're, I'm actually interviewing a PT [00:32:00] today, so if we can get this guy on board here and get him rolling I think we can, you know, get to seven 50 this year.

That's kind of what we're projecting right now and what we're shooting for. Yes. So

Danny: first of all, that's awesome and, and. If you could go back in time and then, so this is, and this is something that I always, I play this game in myself because I I, I constantly am trying to like, you know, grow and improve and, and sometimes I get frustrated with what I feel like is somewhat of a slow pace, right?

But if you could go back 2017, right when you're, when you're just in that little sublease office and, and you could be like, yo, Jamie or whatever you wanna call yourself, probably call her. Hey Jim.

Jamie: Hey. A must back then. Yeah. Like,

Danny: Hey, it's Jim from the future, Jamie with a mustache. Right, exactly. Say, yeah, in 2022, your business is gonna be at like three quarters of a million dollars.[00:33:00]

You know, don't, don't stress so much, it's gonna be fine. Like, would you even believe yourself? No. I mean, I, I

Jamie: think like, like a lot of people, it's like, man, if I can just like, Do a treat in a more enjoyable environment and replace my revenue, like, that'll be great. Yeah. I'll be, and then, you know, but, but that fear and that stress probably is part of what drives you to grind as well, you know?

And so, and look, man, I mean the the, the is only, there's, there's not less when you, you know, go from 50,000 a year to, to seven 50, they're just different. Yeah.

Danny: And there's more, what's different? Like what, what, what would you say your biggest problem was just starting out and what's sort of your biggest problem that you're working through now?

Jamie: I think just starting out

there was a lot, I mean, there was many problems. I think that you know, just, just having a, a structure and guidance on kind of how to approach this model and in some kind of a blueprint as to you [00:34:00] know, how to talk to patients, how to sell. I was, you know, again, just not having any of that knowledge base.

And, and so that was a big issue early on. And then I think now, man, I, it's just when you're, when you get to a point where you're, you have, you know, multiple employees and partnerships and. We're doing training, we're doing, we're, we're definitely like a, a hybrid clinic right now which we can talk about a little bit.

I, I just listened to the podcast that you did on that, which was interesting. But I think that, man, sometimes you have to be, at least once a week something happens where I feel that like, gut punch in the middle of my stomach. Yeah. You know, whether it's, you know, somebody Somebody missing a day of work.

How am I going to handle all these patients at the last second, or you know, something with an insurance out-of-network insurance situation or whatever. So you, you just have to be able to roll with that. I mean, that, that can be stressful. And it's sometimes it's just like, Man, you're, you're just playing [00:35:00] whack-a-mole.

There's so many things like, ah, I did this, I finally got this done. But you just have to be okay with that. And, you know, realize, like you say, you talk a lot about just keep playing the game. Like, you know, this the game, you feel like you want to get to a point where you've won the game and the game's over.

But you know that that's not, doesn't happen. I don't think so. As long as you can keep playing it and play, play that game consistency and consistently and have things to keep you accountable. You look back a couple years and you're like, wow, this is my lifestyle's way better. What I'm doing on a day-to-day basis is a lot more of what I want to do.

And, and I think, you know, that just keeps growing, hopefully from there.

Danny: Well, I think also about, you know, the, you sent me an email that was just like super cool. You and your wife are in Hawaii for how long are you guys there?

Jamie: Yeah, I, I know I wanted to, I wanted to post something in the group, but I have this like, I [00:36:00] hate coming off as like, look at me, you know?

No,

Danny: I got it. I'm the same way. I hate you. So,

Jamie: It's really hard for me to like, I'm, I'm like, I get overly mad at people when they post stuff like that. Like my wife's like, dude, just let it go, you know? So anyway, so we, I remember when we, it was about, we got married in October. We set, celebrated our four year anniversary.

So about maybe a year or six or nine months after I jumped into the group, we got married and You know, we really wanted to go to Hawaii. My wife wanted to go. That was like our dream place. You know, being from a small town in Ohio Right. Like much different. Yeah. And and you know, but we just couldn't swing it.

Right? Like, I could, couldn't take more than a week off. We couldn't afford it. It's just, you know, there was no way. And, and even if I would've tried to do that, I would've been so stressed at that point. Like I wouldn't have enjoyed it at all. Yeah. So, yeah, so in August we we went for like 12 days.

You know, it was amazing. You know, there, there's [00:37:00] the business contin, like it didn't miss a beat. It continued to. You know, function, which is humbling, right? As good or better without me being here. And so that's a great, that's a great

Danny: sign by the way in terms of how you set it up and systemized it, and the people that you have in terms of the, them, them being a, a good fit for the culture you've defined as well.

Like, that is such a good stress test to be gone for like two weeks and to come back and be like, oh, we did just as good if not better. Like, and then, but in some ways it's almost like. Maybe am I needed? Like, what am I doing here?

Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it, you know, it is a good test because it, it does, you know, there's a couple things that pop up that, you know, in a system that you need to clean up, which that's a never ending game, right.

I feel like of optimization and tweaking and, but but yeah, and I mean, I think that the thing that was, you know, that really meant the most to me was just I don't really care. Like my family goes to Hilton Head every year, which is a nice place, but we stay in these [00:38:00] condos that are like, you know, eighties, nineties condos and I have a great time.

Like I don't going to Hawaii, it was cool, like whatever. It was pretty, but I. You know, for me, being able to provide things for my wife and someday hopefully family and is really important. That's probably, it's always at the top of my list when it comes to we do these, you know, What's gonna motivate you or what's gonna keep you disciplined when you have to go see a patient at 7:00 AM or, you know, I go into the office when it's snowing in Cleveland in February and like 10 degrees out early to, you know, clean up a system or something like I.

Those are the things that, that, you know, mean the most to me, I think. And so I just, you know, felt like shooting that email out just to kind of, it was a good reflection kind of moment I think when you, so many times you get stuck and you feel like you're still, like, I still have weeks where I feel like the fire hose is just crushing me and I, [00:39:00] yeah.

We're way behind and I wanted to do this three weeks ago. But it's important, I think, to look at some of those things from a, take a step back from a bigger picture as well.

Danny: Well, I think there's two things there. One is celebrating your success, which you, you have had a lot of success, man. I mean, people like you and me, it's hard for us.

I'm not really sure why. I'm sure there's some deep reasons that, you know, you, we could uncover with some professional help to figure out why is it hard for us to celebrate, you know, wins versus, and, and in in particular. You know, work so hard to achieve something, but then once you do, it's just onto the next thing.

Right? It's, it's not so, so, so celebrating those things I think is really important. And that trip that you guys took is, is a great way to do it. You know, such a great way to experience a probably the, it's definitely the most, just, it's, it's the nicest place I've ever been in my life. You know, the years that we spent in Hawaii is just, it doesn't even seem like a real place.

You get there and it's so [00:40:00] vibrant. I remember thinking like, Is green supposed to look like this? Is this what green actually looks like? You know when you, there's like flowers and fruit everywhere. It's crazy. It's literally like a paradise. So being able to take your spouse there, you know, on a trip and, and disconnect in a way where you could just be present like that is so difficult to do.

And being able to accomplish that is huge. But you know, I think the other thing is, This idea of constantly like things constantly needing to be adjusted and improved, and, and the business is a living, breathing thing. You cannot just like leave it to its own devices forever. And, and I mean, and if you did, you'd have to have somebody else take over to, to be able to really manage those systems and manage the business.

But I mean, that's also part of the fun of it, right? It's like the, it's the game that you never have to stop playing. It's the game that. It always gets harder, and you always have to get better in order to like get to the next level of whatever that game is. It's

Jamie: just a, you get into this position where it's just constant problem solving and figuring out how to do [00:41:00] things that you don't really know how to do and you've never done before.

So having a group of people that, you know have done some of those higher level things that you haven't done yet that you can seek advice from. And being in a group that's so open and it's not like like, you know, I'm not gonna tell you all my secrets, right? But then on the other side of things, being able to have discussions like this and, and providing mentorship to people that are, you know, doing 50,000 a month as a, or as a, in a year as a side hustle.

It makes you kind of go back and, you know, retweet and, and think about, you know, some of your stuff as well also, and, and that's something I think too, I've had a, a handful of people, you know, in the group that I've developed relationships and that have kind of like moved on for whatever reason. And sometimes people will say like, well, you know, I feel like I've gotten a lot of value out of the group, but you know, I want to be able to implement or, you know, I want to explore some other things [00:42:00] and stuff like that.

But for me, I think. You know, there's certainly presentations and components of things that I've heard multiple times at this point, right? But sometimes you need to hear things a couple times. It's the same reason we read books multiple times and you're pulling different things out of that, that to really fully grasp those concepts.

And then I think the other part of that is there's times where I remember like. I'm hearing a conversation once about an s, you know, becoming an S corp or like getting a standalone space someday and going, and in my head I'm like, come on, like this. I'm not ready for this. Like, you know, and and you know, I'll take some notes and, and, you know, see what.

What I can pull from this. And then you go back and you bring those notes in with where you're at now, you hear the, the presentation again, or the content again, and it, it really helps you understand things a lot better. So I think that's another really important thing as well. Yeah,

Danny: and I mean, what you're, what you're describing too [00:43:00] is skillsets, right?

So I always talk about like two elements that people really need to improve as they, as they start and grow their business. So one is this, you don't have the business skillset in this, you know, understanding sales, marketing and systemizing, and hiring and, you know, being able to actually like drive to the vision that you have.

Like we, we didn't go to school for those things, but we have a natural inclination to be problem solvers, to be great communicators. Like it's. It's a superpower in a lot of ways for us as we go into, you know, entrepreneurship with the PT skillset that we have. But the second side of that, and I think this is what people, and is one of the reasons why I'm involved in groups to this day is, is the expansion of your network and the network expansion is.

An unfair advantage in many ways, for a couple reasons, because it's not just those people, but it's the loose connections of the people that those people know. And from there you also have this unique opportunity to develop these, you know, entrepreneur friends that are all over the country to where like, I [00:44:00] literally can't go to most cities in the country without having somebody that I could grab a beer with or grab dinner with.

And, It be totally like, just like a super easy conversation. It's not hard. Like we have so much in common and you get to meet these people and, and it's such a great way to break up the isolation that is entrepreneurship in so many ways where you feel very alienated, right? So, and for you now you've seen like, hey, six people to 200.

Like it's, there's a lot more folks there and a lot more knowledge in the room, but also a lot, a lot more opportunities to develop your network with the right people.

Jamie: Sure. And you know, those conversations with the events, those side conversations are always really helpful. I mean, there's certainly, I think I've been to six or seven events, I've missed a, a couple here and there, and then we, we, with Covid, you know, that were virtual.

But those conversations at the events, I've, there's been at least a, a couple nuggets, man, that each time that I've take, okay, this, this has got me over the hump to want to do this or, Figure out this situation or [00:45:00] solve this problem. And who knows how long it would've taken me to figure some of that stuff out if I didn't do that.

Yeah. On the other end. So,

Danny: yeah, actually, totally agree. Well, dude, here's what I would I, I kinda wanna leave it with, you know, for you a lot of people that listen to this, this conversation or this, this podcast, they're not as far along as you are, you know, with the cash-based practice, with a hybrid practice.

Like they're, they're either. Hey, I'm just thinking about starting. I don't even know if this is gonna work, or I just got started and I'm not sure if I can grow this, you know, to a point where it's replacing my income and or getting to a point where they can, you know, grow past themselves. You've gone through every single stage, but I, I feel like that early stage.

It's tough, you know? What, what advice do you have for people that are just getting started in terms of, you know, being able to get to the stage where, where you're at, where you know, multiple employees and the business runs without you? You know, what advice do you have for people who are just getting going?

Jamie: I did a, I mean, I did a lot of things wrong. And I, [00:46:00] I, I didn't, there was mult many, I don't know, I wouldn't say many multiple times that I got ad advice from you guys or mentors, and I didn't do what they said right away. And, you know, like I said, I, I I feel like plenty, like, I kind of feel like if I could do this and get to this point you know, it, it's very doable.

And, and and so and what's that quote like Regret is a lot more something about regrets a lot worse than failure. You know, regretting not trying to do something because you will fail. You will fail multiple times and in different, you know, scenarios. But I think that you know, gotta get some, some mentorship and then you gotta understand that You know, figure out what you're good at and where, what your weaknesses are.

And, and as soon as you can start to build a team and, and be patient to find the right people, that's as important as anything. You know, I, I look back and, and I think like, man, it, I should have probably [00:47:00] brought somebody on here faster or here I shouldn't have. And, you know, but sometimes it, it takes a little bit of time to find the right person.

You know, so those would be some of the main things that You know, and there's no, there's no right, there's no perfect way that you have to do this either. You know everybody's life is different. Everybody's situation is different. And everybody's area that they're in is different.

And I, I think there's, you know, whether it's straight cash or hybrid or, you know, doing some training as well you gotta, you gotta problem solve and try some stuff and make it work for You know, for your situation and play the long game. And, and those will be some of the, you know, the key thoughts that I would have on that.

Perfect

Danny: man. Well, Jamie, I appreciate your time today. If people are interested in, you know, learning more about your practice and, you know, you know, just, just maybe, maybe they're listening to this and they're an awesome PT and they don't wanna start their own thing and they just wanna work for, you know, a cool entrepreneur and work with them and, and help [00:48:00] grow their business, where, where do they go to learn more about what you got going on?

We

Jamie: are a couple years ago, we we're still known to the IRS as onsite pt, but we switched to Orthos Sport HQ at when we started to do training. And so ww dot orthos sport hq.com, we're actually in the process of redoing our website right now. Or you can. You can email me at Dr. James onsite pt.com.

Cool man.

Danny: Alright, well, hey dude, thank you so much for your time today. I'm gonna end this live stream and we'll go ahead and cut it off here guys. Thanks for listening to podcast as always, and we will catch you next week.

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