E704 | Developing A Physical Product With Nate Henry

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] Hey, real quick, if you were serious about starting or growing your cash based practice, I want to formally invite you to go to Facebook and join our PT entrepreneurs Facebook group. This is a group of over 6, 000 providers all over the country, and it's a pretty amazing place to start to get involved in the conversation.

Hope to see you there soon. Hey, are you a physical therapist looking to leverage your skill set in a way that helps you create time and financial freedom for yourself and your family? If so, you're in the right spot. My name is Danny Mattei and over the last 15 years I've done pretty much everything you can in the profession.

I've been a staff PT I've been an active duty military officer physical therapist I've started my own cash practice. I've sold that cash practice and today my company, physical therapy business helped over a thousand clinicians start growing scale, their own cash practices. So if this sounds like something you want to do, listen up cause I'm here to help you.

What's going on? Damon Tate here with the PT entrepreneur podcast and I haven't had a guest in a while. but when I do have a guest, it's a really good one. And today we're going [00:01:00] to talk to one of my friends. One of my, one of my classmates actually from physical therapy school, shout out us army Baylor program at the a med center in San Antonio.

Any, any more of you listening? I think there's a couple of us. Uh, this is Nate Henry. One of my good friends, uh, from that program and a physical therapist now for how many years? I forget when I guess total that we've been practicing.

Nate: Well, if you count when we started in 07, then I guess it's been, you know, 17 years, but if you count when we graduated, it's been 14, 14.

Danny: I count the last year as a year because we basically worked. That

Nate: means it's 17 years since I've known you because I met you on that first day.

Danny: That's right. That's right. And, uh, you know, looking back, you know, it's, it's, it's interesting because the program that we went to was, uh, it's an army affiliated program, right?

So we had like a half and half military, uh, professors, active duty, wearing a uniform and the other half were. Baylor [00:02:00] professors basically that were, you know, PhDs that were focusing on different subspecialties and, uh, it was an interesting program because it's like, uh, academically accelerated and then condensed, I should say.

And then we spend a year in an orthopedic setting, just getting a lot of volume in it. So by the time that we come out of school, we basically have close to a year of time under our belt working in a, uh, Uh, outpatient ortho facility, which is actually, you know, where we initially got exposed to what, what I know today as a high volume physical therapy, uh, in, in their physical therapy, right?

Yeah. And, uh, it wasn't, it wasn't terrible, but I would say, you know, I don't know, what was your volume like as a resident, you know, after a few months, like, where were you, where would you settle in?

Nate: When, uh, at our, at my first duty station,

Danny: no, when you were at, uh, your, your internship location in, um, at San Antonio

Nate: and San Antonio.

So I, I've lucked out throughout my career, man, like our [00:03:00] clinic up in, uh, new, you were in new Braunfels,

Danny: right?

Nate: And I was in spring branch, which is, which I called a little place. I called it the garden of Eden in, uh, In Texas. It was gorgeous. And our volume was probably half of what your volume was. Spend a considerable amount of time, uh, with each patient.

And then you remember our friend, John Sams, he did a lot and he's kind of a cowboy kind of guy. Just kicks you in the butt when you mess up.

Danny: Yeah,

Nate: I got a lot of mentorship from him. It was great.

Danny: Oh, that's cool. Yeah. We had a much busier clinic experience. I think just the, I think the clinic was just more established, it was bigger.

So we, we'd had a lot, a lot of volume for, especially for someone who was hadn't actually graduated yet. Uh, you know, like fairly quickly and we were there for a long time, right? So we, we really became, uh, employees essentially of that location. Bye. You know, uh, you, we parted ways, uh, after school, you know, I went off to one duty station and you went off to [00:04:00] one and we eventually ended up at the same one.

Yeah. Let's just

Nate: clarify that a little bit. Okay. Let's clarify that. So I had at the top of my list, Hawaii, right? And I thought I was a shoo in cause I was the most senior guy at school. I had seven years of Army experience already. Seventh on my list was this podunk town, Columbus, Georgia. And, uh, uh, uh, And who gets Hawaii is a golden boy, Danny Matei.

I think I named you golden boy Matei within about two weeks of school starting. You just have that vibe. And, uh, and I got freaking Columbus, Georgia. So, well, you know,

Danny: Columbus was my second choice. Uh, On that list, because due to family, right? Well, I didn't want to go to, I just, uh, I wanted to go to a brigade.

Uh, and so my, all of my top five choices were, I was going to get assigned at brigade, um, quickly. And, uh, so, so it wasn't necessarily like tripler wasn't even in my top Uh, 10, which would be a hospital assignment. So [00:05:00] like I, I didn't want anything to do with it, uh, with, with that. And uh, yeah, somehow, uh, you know, it just worked out.

I don't know.

Nate: Yeah. Well, three, three years later you got your turn and you came to the armpit of American Columbus, Georgia. Shout out, love to Columbus, Georgia. I still own property there. I love it there. So I went screaming, but I ended up really liking it. So I mean,

Danny: Hey. I was there twice. I was there in high school when my dad was in, and then I was, I was back there.

And it is a tough place to come to from Hawaii. I remember our neighbor, she was from Columbus her whole life. She lived there. And, uh, you were in, we were talking to her and she's like, where are you coming from? And we said, Oh, we're coming from Hawaii. And she goes, Ooh, sorry. Sorry to hear that, you know, because it's like August in Columbus, Georgia is so hot.

And, um, you know, my son had was, you know, Jack was born on a tropical island and the day we got off the plane, it's like a hundred degrees in Atlanta and humid. You know, he'd never experienced anything like that in his life. He turned bright red, gets almost like a heat rash. [00:06:00] Uh, because he just is pretty fair skinned and he just had never experienced that before.

He looked so miserable. Uh, so it was a tough, it was a tough transition, I would say, but it was cool. Is it, I get a chance to be in the same, you know, same, uh, on the, at the same base as you and a number of other people, um, that, you know, we've gone to school. It's a big, it's a big, uh, base, lots of military, um, the healthcare providers that are there, um, you know, and.

And then, you know, your backstory I think is interesting because where you're at now and what we want to talk about just to pre frame this is Nate, he's developed a, uh, a new E STEM unit specifically for dry needling. And, you know, so it's an undulating story in a lot of ways of how do you go from military provider that then the prior service in the military to PT school, that then you went to a couple of really cool assignments after that to then, Here you are in private practice now in, in, uh, you know, the Colorado Springs area and teaching for another group, as well as building and developing this physical product for the last eight years.

[00:07:00] So it's a lot to unpack and it's a really cool sort of way that somebody got to fulfilling this, this idea that they wanted to see come to market. Um, that a lot of people are scared off by with physical products. So, so I, I get out, I go to, you know, Atlanta. And then for you, what are the next couple steps for you in your journey before you end up getting out and, and essentially, you know, starting the, uh, the practice and the physical product that you have today?

Nate: Yeah, well, I, I got to tell you, this is kind of a story really about relationships and, and purpose, having a purpose. So the, um, The relationships part is really due to you because you came back to Columbus, Georgia, and you said, Hey, I'm getting out of the army. And when, when we parted ways from school, you were a lifeman, you were going to be a lifer, right?

A hundred percent.

Danny: It's true. So true. I was in for a career.

Nate: Yeah. Yeah. I obviously was. Cause I was already in seven years, graduated from school, had 10 years in, it's not that far to retirement, but, uh, you, uh, you came back to Columbus. She said, you're getting out. You're teaching for this Kelly Starrett guy.

And I remember I [00:08:00] asked you, I was like, Ooh, Ooh, how do I get in? On that. I want to teach, you know, that's kind of a skillset of mine.

Danny: Yeah.

Nate: And I remember you said, you know, Nate, I don't think you can, like you can't stay active duty and do something like,

Danny: I couldn't for sure, because I was taking all these government contracts.

So impossible. You can't charge the federal government for something that you're employed by them. So it was definitely impossible for me to do that.

Nate: That's right. You were the point man for government stuff for Kelly. Anyway, um, but you started your cash pay thing. You went to Atlanta, started that. And you encouraged me to do the same thing down in Georgia.

I was one of the first people that I think did it under your tutelage. So, uh, um, and started charging 150 bucks in Columbus, Georgia. That's why when we see these new kids coming in, they're like, ah, I don't know, 150. I'm like, Hey man. And I'm not the best salesman, but I was charging 150. 10 years ago, right?

Columbus, Georgia. Okay. So yeah, you gotta get over it. You're [00:09:00] worth more than that. So anyway, um, started doing that. And I remember at the time you're, you were so busy starting your clinic and you said, uh, Nate, I met this guy. Named Gary and I just don't have time to talk to him, but here's his number if you want to.

So I called him and it was Gary, Gary Reinald from Mark pro. And, uh, it was funny because if you've ever met Gary, that guy can, that guy just talks. And when I very first called him, I'm like, Ooh, I've got. I've got 10 minutes between patients. Let me call this guy. Never in the history of ever does somebody get off of the phone with Gary in 10 minutes, you know?

So anyway, during that conversation, he said, um, Hey, the guy that introduced me, Gary to, uh, Kelly Starrett, his name is Troy. And Troy has developed a nonprofit called the resiliency project. And, uh, it's, uh, An organization that tries to prevent veteran suicide through the use of exercise community [00:10:00] and exercise, right?

Which is one of the best ways to prevent, uh depression and and suicide So anyway, I called troy and troy said hey, uh, it sounds like you kind of operate how I like to operate I'm going to go volunteer at the mayhem froning and his Nonprofit and, uh, I'm going to go cover a CrossFit competition. Come help me.

So I did, and we used, um, it's like a meet the doc event today, or when you cover an event nowadays, you know, we, uh, set up tables, did manipulations. We used Mark pros and, and I started using dry needling there. And, uh, we started connecting. Mark pro to dry needling

Danny: and those things are like a v8 engine by the way I get careful.

I've done the same thing and the first guy that I did that to you I think I electrocuted luckily. I was in the army at the time So he couldn't sue me but way more powerful than any other Easton unit that I've ever hooked up to a needle

Nate: [00:11:00] there there on a Voltage well on a on a frequency of microseconds I'm sorry, not microseconds, milliseconds, they're milliseconds.

Most, uh, acupuncture units are microseconds. So Mark pro is about 10 times stronger, essentially. Yeah, I could tell you that you got to ramp it up slow, right? So, uh, anyway, fast forward a couple of years and I met up with Troy later on. He asked me to come treat a CrossFit athlete in North Carolina. And, uh, I came in and he showed me a.

And a traditional electrical stimulation unit that was wireless company called hideout. And there are a number of them out there. Like Compex has Compex has one. There's the dot power dot. There's some others out there. And, uh, anyway, he's like, Hey, what would this be like if you took those little clip adapters and used it on this device?

So we did, and it wasn't, it was actually a little bit better than using it with the, the Mark [00:12:00] pro at the time. You know?

Danny: Yeah. Yeah.

Nate: And that's when this idea was born back in, I don't know, 2015, when we're like, man, wouldn't it be cool if we had a device that functions like that? And, uh, the thing is, Troy, he's, you know, he's an investment banker and I'm an army physical therapist.

So we're just batting this idea around back and forth for several years. And, uh, this is where relationships come into play a little bit because. He communicated so well and established relationships so well with, uh, with high Dow, this company that had this device, they actually asked him and said, Hey, do you have a device kind of specific, uh, uh, electrical stimulation device that you want for your athletes?

Troy's like, yeah, actually I do, um, and they, they developed it. So he started circulating that on, uh, the CrossFit circuit. And he called me and said, this is it. Like, I've got this relationship now. I've got this electrical [00:13:00] stimulation device. I think we can pair it back from milliseconds to microseconds and it'll meet the parameters that you want.

Danny: Oh, okay.

Nate: The, uh, the biggest frustration that, and you probably know this as a practitioner, the biggest frustration with dry needling is dealing with the frigging wires, man. And they break all the

Danny: time

Nate: too. And they break all the time. I mean, this is a, and I'm not pointing out any one particular company, but this is a pretty considered a flagship unit from, uh, and for our folks that are just listening, it's, you know, it's, uh, a robust.

Acupuncture unit has six leads on it. And this yeah, rabbits or birds nest deal with, Well, there's like a bomb where it's like you cut the red wire or the green. Yeah, exactly. You're trying to get the right wires for your patients. It's just. It's a, it's a mess, you know, and then when you're trying to port this thing around and trying to get it to [00:14:00] folks anyway, as, as Troy and I talked, and this was a, you know, a couple of years talking back and forth, um, like, it just seems like this could be done better, you know?

Yeah. And, uh, in the meantime, I was continuing with my army career. I went from Columbus, Georgia to a special forces group in Florida. Yeah. And, uh, and went through a fellowship training there. And that's where I started to really learn their specific parameters for dry needling. You know, when I teach courses nowadays, people always bring me their device.

They're like, how do I use this? How do I set this up? And, uh, so I just kind of started to recognize. There's, there's a need out there for something that's more portable that doesn't deal with all the wires that, um, is kind of intuitive and how you use it instead of needing some specific instruction on how to use it.

And so all these pieces just kind of fit together. Um, from, uh, that special forces unit in [00:15:00] Florida, I went to New York, got a doctor of science degree and a sports medicine fellowship. And, uh, and then from New York, they sent me to Colorado, which was kind of a dream station of mine in the end. Um, retired last year, a year ago, and, uh, met one of your people from PT biz, uh, Chris Roble, who owns PhysioRoom and, you know, that business I started back when you encouraged me to back in 2014, I carried that theme for 10 years, carried it to Florida and New York and Colorado.

And I was just going to take it full time. But when I met Chris, I decided to join PhysioRoom and he's been very encouraging and not only Um, running my business, but, uh, but developing this product. So,

Danny: well, I think the thing to you bring it up is what's interesting is, um, you know, you had this sort of side hustle clinic in Columbus, uh, whenever I left.

And I remember you were doing home health. just to [00:16:00] make more money. And you basically were, we're like, screw this. Like I'm done with, with going to home health. I'm just going to do this at the CrossFit gym in it. And it turned into your side hustle from, instead of, uh, you know, doing home health, which was cool.

And then, but then to be able to move, you know, To all these other locations and still be able to do some sort of like side, uh, work is really interesting and something that I think for a lot of people that they don't feel like that's possible with a cash practice. Um, and it, it would be really hard to like build a, uh, a sizable clinic and then have to move.

Um, I think that's really, really challenging for anybody that's like a military spouse or something like that. But if you're looking to do like something on the side, Uh, and create, you know, a side income. It's definitely something you can stand up and, and you can take it with you in the skillset of the business side.

It's not like you forget it when you move. Right. So you're able to do that a few different locations. Um, but, but, you know, all along the way, which is interesting is just, you know, how you had this sort of physical product that you wanted to, um, that you wanted to build, you were And Troy is super connected, you [00:17:00] know, I, I, I think he's, he's a, he's a really great guy as well, you know, somebody that's, uh, a good, uh, partner in a lot of ways for what you're trying to do with things that maybe you were unable to do or maybe didn't have the connections for and, but even still like making your own, not just, it's not like you're making a, uh, a band or, uh, or, you know, something that's, you know, Very low tech, simple.

Um, you made a electrical unit that connects the needles and builds bodies. Right? So what is that? What is the, what is the development side of that look like? Cause I think there's a lot of people in, they listen to this and you see problems in the clinic all the time, or maybe you see something you're like, this sucks, but we have to use it.

What, and you thought, Oh, there's a better way for this, but lots of people think that and never actually do it. So what was the process like to actually start to. Say, all right, I really want to go for this and build a physical product. Like what did that look like?

Nate: So for us, it was a constant communication with this company [00:18:00] called hideout.

And, uh, and again, Troy had that relationship. He'd already established a relationship with the manufacturer, the manufacturers out of China. So one of the primary, uh, challenges that we dealt with from the very beginning was communication. And we, we established Slack channels to, to talk with them there and their English is pretty good, right?

My Chinese is non existent. So, so for, uh, for us to communicate it, there was a, it's so much Danny, it is so much going back and forth short of flying out there and just talking with them. There's just a lot of back and forth communication and clarification for what you're expecting, especially when, you know, we were trying to adjust.

The voltage on these units, just a little bit. And they're, they're coming back saying now, did you say 75? I mean, it's little things like that, that, uh, if you, if you don't get it right, it sets you [00:19:00] months behind. And we did have, we had a couple of this, this unit should have come out, I don't know, a year and a half ago, but we, uh, you, you keep having some, some, uh, miscommunications and setbacks as hard as you try.

So that was, uh, that was one of the things. Um, the. The other difficulty that I had was I, I thought I had this great idea. Um, I did not understand how fleshed out that idea has to be to take it from concept to, uh, to actual production. And so I'm like, yeah, I want it to be able to do these three, these three things.

But getting it from my head into their head is, uh, it's, it's pretty challenging.

Danny: Do you have to use like engineers in any way to help develop with product design and all that? Like, what'd you do on that side?

Nate: So you can't, you can do it from this end. We did it from their end. They had the engineers, I would sketch designs and it might be [00:20:00] something as simple as, uh, uh, a blocked out, uh, box of a unit on a PowerPoint or some other application.

And then their engineer would drum it up and send me back a CAD drawing. And then I can send back saying, yeah, that we kind of like that. And just back and forth like that. And what we ended up with is, is not what I imagined in the beginning, but to be quite honest, what I imagined in the beginning. It's just, you know, from concepts to reality, this is a big step.

It's a big step.

Danny: Hey, sorry to interrupt the podcast, a huge favor to ask of you. If you are a long time listener or a new listener, and you're finding value in this podcast, please head over to iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to the podcast, and please leave a rating and review. This is actually very helpful for us to get this podcast and really help them develop time and financial freedom.

So if you do that, I would greatly appreciate it. Now back to the podcast. They also don't know, right? I mean, it's not like you have a [00:21:00] background in, uh, physical product development to where, you know, you understand, you might think, Oh, well, we should be easy to do this. And they might say, well, we could do that, but it's going to be like three times as expensive.

Uh, you know, so like, what's the price point you're looking for? It's the same thing too, is you have to. You have to be able to put this, uh, to where you obviously see a need for it. But if this thing costs 10, 000, then the product market fit of who's going to actually buy a 10, 000, you know, like East M unit for dry needling is a pretty small group of people, probably versus if it's roughly in line or, you know, somewhere in it's similar ballpark to what people would pay for.

Uh, an Easton unit, and it's better quality, you can charge more for it, um, but it still needs to be, you know, um, in the ballpark of what people are looking for to pay for a physical product like that. So I can imagine it's like, you have to probably make concessions on design and materials to be able to get it into a place where it's going to be, um, a profitable unit to be able to sell as well.

Nate: Sure. Sure. And, [00:22:00] and one thing I should mention is, you know, I, I talk about this as if it's my unit or whatever it is not, there are lots of people that have contributed to this and, uh, and then various owners. I mean, I have a small stake in it, but, uh, it's, uh, uh, it's, it's Lots of folks that go into making something like this.

One of the things for, for this specific unit, for instance, or for, for acupuncture units, one of the biggest hurdles is getting through something like FDA approval

Danny: and

Nate: something that simple. Is very expensive. In fact, that's the number one reason when I talked with other people about developing it, they said, Well, that's why I don't develop it because, um, the FDA approval is going to cost 50,

Danny: 000.

Really?

Nate: Yeah. So it's, it's just, it's, it's out of reach for most folks. Um, that's, that's where teaming up with a larger company that has done this a lot. Now, of course, that gives them a lot more of the, uh, stake in the company, but, [00:23:00] uh, yeah. Um, that's, that's okay. We've, we conceded that because it's really the only way to bring something like this to market, unless I'm Mr.

Moneybags, you know?

Danny: Well, yeah, I would imagine the red tape associated with that, the process of learning that. So tell me a little bit about like the, the partner side and sort of how you, you know, Negotiated what you would do what the partners would do. Like, what did that process look like? Because in my experience, just with businesses that I had partners with that initial operating agreement conversation of understanding who's.

Who's doing what, how much of this company does each person own roles, responsibilities. It's essentially like a business prenup, uh, to where, you know, everyone can hold each other accountable. If it doesn't work out, you know exactly what it looks like when you part ways. So how was that process, especially working with a company in another, in another country?

Nate: Yeah, so, um, well, and I should clarify, IDAO has a headquarters here in the U. S. [00:24:00] in St. Louis as well, so that, that, and those folks speak great English, so that, that part was, was much easier to deal with. Um, those are things that, uh, I played to Troy's strengths and let him negotiate that with them. I'll leave it at that.

Uh, they own 50 percent of it. And then, uh, Troy and I, you know, and I, I, I'd rather keep our, um, agreement kind of under wraps, but I, I own a small stake and, uh, uh, we, Troy and I split that with that company 50, 50. So. That gives them, um, incentive to, uh, market it and put it on their own website, um, incentive to make sure that it succeeds as far as FDA approval and patenting and all of that.

Um, and then of course it gives us incentive to make sure that it, uh, that makes it into the right circles. So,

Danny: so this is actually a good point. I think anybody listening to this, this is, [00:25:00] you know, kind of interesting to think through and to, Uh, to understand that different circumstances, you may not, it may not be beneficial for you to have the most amount of equity you can possibly have, um, in terms of alignment with what other people, you know, want, uh, to, to have a overall better opportunity for success.

It's, uh, like the concept, uh, someone explained to me once and, and they said, you know, do you want a hundred percent of a grape or do you want half a watermelon? Right. Like it's. It depends on the scale potential, um, of the, of the product service business, whatever it is. So, you know, even like the richest people on the planet, like, like, you know, somebody like, uh, like a Bill Gates or Elon Musk with companies, they own, I mean, they, they, they may own 10 percent of those companies, right?

Like I got, they're not, they don't own 50 to a hundred percent of them. It doesn't work that way. If you want to get other really smart people involved on bigger projects in particular. So, Now that you have this [00:26:00] ironed out, you have this product that is, uh, you know, has been developed. Um, what, what does it look like as far as like roles and responsibilities for you?

Like what, what is your, you know, description of what you're supposed to do for the, for this product?

Nate: Yeah, sure. Um, and that leads, I did want to mention for sure in mine and Troy's agreement. So I told, I told you, this is kind of a story about relationships and about purpose and, uh, Troy's purpose. You might think it's well, he's into the fitness community.

He likes, uh, CrossFit. He likes, uh, helping people out with their recovery and he does, he loves all of those things. But the reason that Troy developed a company in the first place, the reason that he's willing to do this device with me, he, uh, his goal. Is this resiliency project that I mentioned at the very beginning, he, he wanted it written up into the contract and it is that any profits from the company, the first 10 percent goes to the resiliency project.

He's like, otherwise I just, I don't do it. He's [00:27:00] like, that's what his, uh, his purpose is, is to take care of vets like he wants to. And, uh, that, uh, and this is really a vehicle for him to do that.

Danny: Yeah.

Nate: Where, where he, um, Needed some help was really in kind of the, the expertise of, uh, leveraging some of these products.

I mean, this, uh, electrical stimulation unit is not the only one that we have. There are other products out there and he's not a physical therapist. He's a mortgage broker. So he's like, Hey, Things like writing content or writing the copy for what goes online. He just wants to help with that kind of stuff, you know?

So essentially the way we, and, and he wants to focus more time on resiliency projects. So essentially how we broke it down is, okay, look, I'll, uh, I'll, I will be the 90 percent solution for everything, um, for these products. Then you help me 10%, you know, and then, uh, you be the 90% solution [00:28:00] for the re, re resiliency project and I'll help you out there 10%.

So we we're both have a majority responsibility in these, in these, uh, two different, uh, areas with, um, someone that we know can come rescue us when we're lacking that last 10%. So,

Danny: yeah.

Nate: That's kind of how we set that up.

Danny: Well, what have you found bringing a product to market at this point? So, you know, it's, it's a, it's one thing to develop a product that, uh, you know, that, uh, that is solid, that you feel comfortable selling.

It's another thing to try to sell it. Right. So, um, what have you learned on the, the distribution sales marketing side in terms of really trying to get these units out into the, you know, the clinical world?

Nate: Yeah, sure. Well, I'll tell you this. Um, uh, they, like, they say, if, if you are totally happy with the first version of your product, then you're probably way too slow getting it out there,

Danny: right?[00:29:00] 

Nate: Um, so we kinda had to balance, Hey, can we get. Like the major points that we want to get, can we meet the major requirements that we want on this device and do it as quickly as possible? And I think, I think we did that. I think we nailed it pretty good. Um, we, uh, we ran a presale for about three months. It was supposed to be one month, um, delays in production turned into three months.

We had, uh, and, uh, upfront, we had, um, 10 buyers, 10 folks come in and buy it. Um, awaiting it to deliver. Um, the, uh, the first deliveries were made today. So I'm getting text messages. Uh, well, the, the company's getting text messages from, uh, from these individuals, like, it's so cool. It's so light. Like, how does, how did you do this kind of thing?

Um, I guess I should show you the product a little bit.

Danny: So describe it because obviously like, well, there's a podcast, uh, version that people are listening to as well, because I've seen it firsthand. You [00:30:00] plug it into my knee. Yeah. Uh, when you were needling me in, uh, in Atlanta after we did our, our, uh, our workout that morning.

But, uh, but yeah, so like, yeah, describe it, describe and describe maybe the biggest differences that you wanted to see besides just the cords, right? But like, what are the things you're really trying to do with the physical product to make it, uh, something that would be a better option for clinicians?

Nate: Yeah, sure. So this, the patent on this, it's a patent for Bluetooth dry

Danny: needling.

Nate: We've got a communication device. I'll show it to you there. It's about the size of a credit card in terms of height, the width, and then the depth is about half an inch. Um, and that is what we use to communicate with the pucks.

So the product is called Myo Pucks, M Y O for muscle, of course, and P U X for pucks. Um, the puck is the communication device that the needles connect to. So it's this little disc puck looking thing. And I shouldn't say it's a totally [00:31:00] wireless device because there's a short little wire, about six inches, That attaches to that puck.

So I can set that puck by the patient, put those two wires connected to the needles, and then I can communicate to it, to it with the remote, the very small remote, um, all this together weighs about, um, half a pound and I can, I can connect four of these pucks to a single device and, uh, and then it easily switches between four programs.

When you get a traditional acupuncture unit, it's, uh, there are hundreds. Of programs, but physical therapists on a majority of the time, they use two, they use one at two Hertz and use one at 100 Hertz. Um, and then you have some pelvic floor specialists that wanted certain parameters at 12 Hertz and another one at 50 Hertz.

So that's what we put on there. You've got four options for, uh, For electrical stimulation, and then when you, uh, when you turn up the intensity of the [00:32:00] stimulation is through a button that you click just to turn it up a little bit at a time. It's not the dials that you're used to as you experienced with a patient there.

You zap them when you dial dial up too fast. And that little incremental button is far more specific about what type of, uh, voltage or what type of how much intensity you're trying to deliver to the patient. So it's, it's safer. Great. The main things we were going for is we wanted wireless or at least less wires.

We, uh, we wanted those presets because we didn't want to have to give a class on how to set up the, the, the parameters of each treatment. And we wanted a portable. And then the, the thing that came from the unit that I wasn't expecting, and I know it's subjective, I know, but the electrical stimulation that you received through the needle on this device, it just feels more smooth.

Danny: It

Nate: feels sharp.

Danny: Sometimes, you know, you get that and people are like, it feels like you're stabbing me a little bit. Is that normal? Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Don't worry about [00:33:00] it.

Nate: It's just it's even and it's smooth. It's not squirrely. It's it's really, really nice. So anyway, those are the, those are the things that we were.

Why is that?

Danny: What's the difference between? I mean, I can imagine like. The consistency of some sort of output is going to be better with a higher quality product. But like what, what, what creates a difference there? Because people are scared enough with needle, uh, for the most part. Right. Then all of a sudden you throw some, uh, Gator clips onto it and it looks like you're jumpstarting a battery and then they're, they're really freaked out.

You know, they're like, well, what in the hell are you doing back there? Uh, you know, so I think anything that can help calm some of the fears of people and make it feel as professional and, and, uh, you know, high quality as possible is definitely a benefit, especially in private practice and always be so concerned with, like, the littlest thing and freak somebody out and, you know, You know, when you want to make sure you're not negligent by any means, but you also want to make sure that, you know, people are having a good experience because [00:34:00] that can really hinder your, the growth of your business.

If they feel like you, you didn't take care of them the right way.

Nate: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, the reason why I think it's a smoother kind of feel, I think it's just because one, one, uh, less wire, we get less degradation of the stimulation over less length of wire. And, uh, and an electrician might call me out on that.

I just, that, that seems how it's working. Um, and, uh, the, the other is again, we're graded. It's a very specific amount of intensity with each press of the button versus using a dial. So if, if I happen to. Press a button and the patient is like, Oh, that's a little bit strong. It's very easy to go back down.

Just one click instead of dialing all the way back and starting up again. You

Danny: know,

Nate: so it's just a smoother, faster, more efficient experience.

Danny: So what's the next steps on the marketing side? Because it sounds like it's a big company. Uh, that you partnered with. So they probably have their own, [00:35:00] you know, traffic to their website.

Uh, just internal resources that they're going to put behind it as if it was any other product that they have. But what do you feel like on the marketing side of a product like this? Because it's very niche, right? Uh, to, it's not like, uh, it's, you know, Anybody that's an athlete is gonna want to get that.

It's gonna be somebody that is not just a clinician, but a clinician that's doing some sort of dry needling. Um, and or, I guess, acupuncture. I don't know if people that do acupuncture would find this, uh, as useful as someone who's doing dry needling. The intent may be a bit different. So where do you feel like the marketing side, uh, is going to be beneficial for you to focus on it to really get more visibility to the product?

Nate: Yeah. So a couple of areas, one, one developing website, and then we don't need to talk a whole lot about that because people know about that. It's it's, um, it's more expensive than you think

Danny: it

Nate: takes, uh, some money to start it and it takes some money to maintain it. So that's number one, number two on the marketing, this is [00:36:00] a product that we really anticipate kind of marketing itself.

Um, I, I'm in a position where I teach dry needling courses and you would think, Hey, that's a terrific place for me to market this thing. I have to be very careful that I don't, um, present this, you know, there's a conflict of interest there. So even if I use it for demonstration, I need to put a disclaimer out there and say, Hey, by the way, There's I have stake in this company, and so I'm biased towards the use of this device, but, uh, by and large, I've had a prototype out for over a year, um, any clinician that sees it, and I've heard this multiple times, by the way, they see it and they said, What the, this is, this is the Apple of dry needling.

Like I'm looking at Microsoft at these other devices, you know, this is the Apple of dry needling and, uh, and they get, I, um, typically when I'm teaching courses, I take other devices. I say, okay, so you set it up here and you go here and you do this. You do that with this. I just hand it to [00:37:00] them. I hand it to them and then they figure it out within a minute.

It's just, it's intuitive that way. So I think this is a product that once people see it, it kind of sells itself. In terms of other marketing, we're, uh, we're in the process of developing a, a member, um, or a group, a Facebook group page. And, uh, Because we want the dialogue going in, uh, with, with clinicians that are interested in dry needling, but the last avenue is this, our website includes lots of products that are for the end user, not just the practitioner.

So. We'll have, uh, we'll have patients that will be interested in some of these products, and then we'll have clinicians both interested in them. And this, of course, would be targeted more towards the clinician.

Danny: So you mean you're taking the same technology but making it a wireless, uh, unit that somebody could use, uh, that's just non clinical?

They're using it for themselves, similar to like the dot pucks or whatever they're called?

Nate: Exactly. That's the one. In fact, that's the one that this is [00:38:00] based off of choice had that unit out for four or five years. So, uh, thank you for the athlete.

Danny: I think about the, like the idea of like Tam or total adjusted market, right?

The size of the audience you're talking about and a general population, obviously it's like way bigger, uh, Tam, but way, it's way more competitive. There's way more options, right? So smaller market, but not as many options. So, I mean, it's just, it's what, what, um, Game. Do you want to play kind of, you know, thing, right?

So on the marketing side, I would think something like this would do really well visually on something like Instagram, uh, you know, seeing, uh, videos of people using it picture. So it's, it's just like, I mean, even when we were dealing people with it, if we were using East damage, like, I'm going to take a picture of it so they could send it to their spouse or put it up on social media like I'm doing this crazy shit.

Look at this. Right. And, uh, it's just because it's kind of weird if you really think [00:39:00] about it. So, you know, I definitely think that's an avenue that you should think about exploring as well. It's just like visually. Kind of get more out there about who's using stuff like this and then what it looks like.

Nate: Yeah, we do have a, uh, a MyoPucks Facebook page and a MyoPucks Instagram page. Um, the dry needling unit is not on those pages yet, but some of the other products are. So that's, um, it's coming.

Danny: So, okay, if somebody is listening to this and they're like, man, I think I want to develop a physical product.

Number one, would you recommend that they actually do it? Or not based on your experience. And then two, if they do want it to do this, like what are the first like couple of steps that they should really focus on to make sure that they don't waste their time?

Nate: Yeah. Well, um, first of all, first of all, get used to wasting your time.

It's going to happen. You're going to chase some rabbit holes, trying to get stuff done. And it, and it. And it seems almost useless. And then in some cases it is, but, uh, just get used [00:40:00] to, to failing like that. I actually, about two months ago, I had, uh, somebody called me up with this exact question. And he's got, uh, a product that he's developing.

I won't mention it all. I'm under a non disclosure agreement. Um, Such a fantastic idea, dude. He's gonna, he's gonna kill it, but he went a different route and went and got his patent first by himself and, uh, and started talking to manufacturers by himself. But he's, that's the reason he's consulting with me is because he's running into so many roadblocks doing that.

So I, my advice would be talk to somebody that has done it. Are we going to save you all the time? No. Are we going to save you some of the time? Yeah, we are. We've already kind of pointed him in the right direction to get this done. I'm kind of excited to partner with him on it. So that's, uh, um, as far as recommendation for someone else, I would, uh, I'd have him talk with somebody that's done it before.

Danny: What about, would you do it again? If you, if, You [00:41:00] know, given the, Oh, I'm going to do it

Nate: again. I mean, once you've, once you've done this once you, you kind of, uh, you've made some mistakes, you know, what a little bit better what to do. We're going to do it again. This is my OPEX is not done with this. We're we'll have 10 or 12, uh, different products out there that are going to going to assist with.

Uh, the various modalities that physical therapists do, and not only that, but the athletes, the end user that uses them. So

Danny: have you caught the inventor bug? Are you going to be like, uh, you know, inventing, I don't know, children's toys that, uh, solve a problem. And, and I, cause I feel like the people that I know that have done physical products, they typically do one and then they're like, it's almost like they see problems that they want to solve with a product.

All the time. Yeah. Do you feel like you've kind of turned into that?

Nate: Um, I, I can't say that I've turned it like, uh, venturing out to completely different products. I think I'm, I, I mean, given my background, my education, especially more of a logistics mind than a, than a, I don't know, [00:42:00] creative mind. I like to think I'm creative, but my, my background doesn't say that I am

So

Danny: yeah,

Nate: it, uh, it, I, I'm a little more. linear than might think sometimes. So, um, I, I think I'm going to be kind of staying in this niche, but more products. Yeah, they're, they're coming. It's, and it's fun. It's a lot of fun. It's frustrating. Um, but I mean, as far as how you're going to spend your time, if you've got to work, this is a fun way to work.

It's good.

Danny: I can imagine. So, man, I feel like, um, you know, I mean, dude, I can get, I can get like a, A bookshelf from Ikea and assemble it myself. And I feel quite accomplished. I can't imagine a physical product that you, you know, you're just design phase and all the modifications and adjustments and, uh, and you know, uh, version one, two, three, however many, and then all of a sudden it's like in the physical world and it's something that, uh, solves a problem and you can be proud of it.

It's really cool to see, man. I, I, I've got to be honest with you. I think what you've done is a really, I created something really, [00:43:00] really Um, it seemed like it's just really well put together as well. And, uh, you know, it's just cool to be able to see in the business side, you know, we have, most of what we do is services, you know, service businesses and, um, and those are great, but product businesses are massive, uh, e commerce, you know, product businesses are, they're solving a problem and they.

They serve a purpose. So it's cool to hear how you did this and what you've learned from it. And if anybody's listening to this, that, uh, is interested in, you know, a physical product, um, I hope this, this podcast helps you and, and kind of gives you a better idea of if it's something you should pursue and what the next steps might be for that.

Cause I do think we see problems all the time and we just rarely, you know, Uh, go to solve it. It reminds me of like, uh, Steve Siddell, who, um, created the neck hammock and, you know, for him, it was just like trying to create a way where somebody could do like traction to their own neck and, uh, was able to come up with a really, a really good idea.

Really good design. It works really well. You know, sold a ton of those units and, and I [00:44:00] know for him, it's like on to the next product. What else do I want to do? And it's, so it's interesting to be able to solve this problem. So if you want to learn more about Myopox, uh, they want to, uh, you know, look to see if they want to get a unit like this, if they're doing dry needling, what's the, what's the website, where can they go to learn more and, and, uh, get one of these suckers.

Nate: Uh, they should go to milepux, M Y O P U X, milepux. com. They'll see several other products there as well. More than happy to answer questions about it as well. Oh, and Hey, for our, uh, PT entrepreneurs, podcast listeners, or PT biz folks, we've got a, um, an additive code. So if you put this code in PT biz, P T B I Z, put in PT biz.

When you go to purchase, we're, we're going to throw in a device that we called the, uh, The leopard paw. So it's a nice little, uh,

Danny: that's the, um, uh, what do you call it? Scraping tool, right?

Nate: Yeah, that's it. So this number right here comes in [00:45:00] and, uh, it's, uh, it's awesome, man. It's got a raised surface for grip that looks like little leopard spots.

So anyway, the handiest tool that I've. Felt it's, it's weighty. It's, it feels great. So,

Danny: well, I think it wasn't Kelly strut had, uh, a lot to do with the design of that with Troy, I believe, right?

Nate: Yeah. He and Troy, uh, worked on some products together in the past. Cool.

Danny: Yeah, that's great. I really appreciate that.

Number one. Um, and go check it out. I, I got a firsthand experience, uh, you know, you know, with it. Um, but if nothing else, take a look at what the design looks like and think, Oh, this is okay, cool. This is what he was talking about. This is what it looks like. And think about what this looks like with other products, because I really do feel like they're.

The attention to detail on things is just not that common. You know, the, like looking at like product design to me, it reminds me of like customer service, customer success, you know, it's something that people just sort of like graze over and they don't really think about the experience, the user experience, the product experience, all that stuff.

And I actually think that that's one of the [00:46:00] biggest things that really, um, is a selling factor for people, ease of use, the design, You know what it looks like, um, the packaging, these are all things if you look at like apple, right? It's uh, They kill it on this stuff. You know, I was just at the masters and It's you know, I told him actually it's like it's pollen season in georgia.

Everything is yellow this this course They have all these signs that are white all these tables that are white and everything is just Completely clean no palm anywhere. How do they do it? What army of people do they have out there wiping shit down every single morning and during the day or something?

Like I don't even know but it's like such a detail oriented place I have a lot of respect for people do that because it's a hard thing to do.

Nate: Absolutely.

Danny: Yeah. Well, cool nate Well, thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it guys If you want to check out milepucks go to the website and uh, definitely use that code if you want to uh, grab one That's really helpful.

Thank you so much for doing that. And as always Thanks so much for listening. We'll catch you guys next week. See you, Danny. [00:47:00] Hey, Peach Entrepreneurs. We have big, exciting news, a new program that we just came out with. It is our PT Biz part time to full time five day challenge. Over the course of five days, we get you crystal clear on exactly How much money you need to replace by getting you ultra clear on how much you're actually spending.

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