E186 | Growth Vs. Fixed Mindset With Jerred Moon And Yves Gege

 

In today's episode, I am joined by Jerred Moon of End Of Three Fitness and my business partner, Yves Gege.  We get into a discussion of being an entrepreneur and having a growth mindset vs. a fixed mindset.  Understanding the two can be the difference in success or failure on your entrepreneurial journey.

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Episode Transcription:

What's up, guys? Doc Danny here, with the PT Entrepreneur Podcast, and, today, we're going to do a podcast. And by we, I mean me, Jerred Moon and Yves Gege. We're all in Salt Lake City, for a finance conference. So we'll be sure to do some wrap-up summaries of what we learn at this to me at this finance conference.

But I'm, we're just sitting around kind of catching up and talking about experiences we had with school in the military and things. And, One of the things we started talking about was this idea of a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. And, and kind of delving into, into what that is. And honestly, I think for a lot of people that we see, especially the people that we do business development work with.

The mindset side of things. It seems to be the most significant variable. And Eve, you do most of these, most of the onboarding calls for our mastermind, you're doing a lot of like one-on-one call coaching as well as the small group stuff that we do. So you'd probably see this more if I have more reps of this than anybody else.

So from a mindset standpoint, what have you noticed when we first start working with people or like common patterns.

Yves: [00:04:04] So for sure. I mean, when we're in PT school, we get a lot of dogma of where we are in the food chain, and relative to the healthcare world, you know, where the doctors are and where PTs belong, as well as just where we fit in the healthcare insurance model.

And that bleeds over even to these people who've leaped into a cash-based business which kind of understand like how to be more entrepreneurial and how to run their own business and get excited about it and realize they have the right skillset. When they get into some of these business things, they feel like so many things are out of their control, right?

They have no idea how to tackle some of these next things. And it's very similar to a fixed mindset. It's like, I have no control over this. This is how it's going to be. What do I do next? And I feel like that's a big part of what we provide is a, we've done it. So we've kind of broken that glass ceiling.

And then B, we can create some action around those things that need to be doing. And then they finally start to realize. Hey, I can do these things as I can grow, and I continue to do more things in a completely different way than I'd been doing before.

Danny: [00:05:08] So how much of the big kind of steps that people take forward do you think are related to stepping out?

And. Exposing themselves to uncomfortable situations like getting turned down. And how much of it do you think comes down to preparation as well? Like do you feel like those two things lead to these steps forward within their mindset that you see, or is one kind of more important than the other from what you found.

I

Yves: [00:05:40] answer that like

Danny: [00:05:42] is it preparation, or is it just getting out there and getting your ass kicked a little bit?

Yves: [00:05:45] I think it's a little bit of both. I think PTs for sure will want to be a perfectionist and want to prepare, prepare, prepare. Never actually create action. Right. But a lot of it and that, this is all I am.

Jared and I were talking about this like this is how I learn. I go about things. I will just immerse myself, and whenever I need to learn. All right? I need to figure out how to create a perfect relationship with gym owners. Guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to go through as many different gems and talk to as many different gym owners until I figured out the best way to create a relationship with a gym

Danny: [00:06:14] owner,

Yves: [00:06:14] right?

And so whatever skill set you to need, I believe that the best way. For myself, and I think for a lot of their people included, is just to go and do that thing over and over again, fail probably 15 times, 20 times. Eventually, you're going to figure it out, and you're going to get good at that skill.

Jerred: [00:06:31] One thing I've noticed, you talk about getting out of your comfort zone, so I haven't worked with a lot of entrepreneurs, is

Yves: [00:06:38] especially

Danny: [00:06:39] PTs

Jerred: [00:06:41] because you guys have worked so hard for a specific clinical skillset. You like to sharpen to this spear to this point where you have this like an awesome thing.

So when it comes to entrepreneurship, I see a lot of people not getting outside of their comfort zone in the form of

Danny: [00:06:58] like

Jerred: [00:06:58] taking action. Like they just want to be the clinician. Like I just want to do this thing, and they won't get out of their comfort zone to do the same with coaches. I just want to be coached, just want to coach people and help people.

It's like, well, to help people

Danny: [00:07:10] and do more of your job, you're going to have to

Jerred: [00:07:11] get out of your comfort zone and. Do these entrepreneurial things,

Danny: [00:07:15] you know, so bigger picture before people even

Jerred: [00:07:17] step to something like a mastermind

Danny: [00:07:18] is like,

Jerred: [00:07:20] where's your mindset in that regard? Are you hiding behind?

Which would be the more fixed mindset? Are you hiding behind this? No, I'm a, you know, I'm a physical therapist. I'm not going to focus on these skills. I'm not going to worry about these

Danny: [00:07:30] entrepreneurial side of

Jerred: [00:07:31] things or think that you don't need to push as hard in that area. But you should be focusing on that more if you want to make more of an impact.

Danny: [00:07:38] Yeah. And I think most of the time, what I see is the clinical skill set is not what holds people back from being able to have their brick and mortar practice, whether it be beyond aspects. Totally. Yeah. And, and, I mean, maybe just coming out of school, like we're starting to see more and more people straight out of school go for it, you know, and kind of learn as they go.

I think that's a harder path. Then for me, I was, you know, five years, four or five years out of school, had a lot of reps under my belt, so clinically, I had a lot of confidence. I think you'd have to be unique. New graduates that probably have a skill set in something before, some sort of coaching or some kind of niche that you were an athlete in to feel comfortable, you know, going, going out on your own initially.

But talk for a second about, fixed versus growth mindset and sort of explaining those two per se.

Jerred: [00:08:25] Yeah. So you have a fixed mindset, which is we are the way that we are, this is, this is how things are. And you just kind of accept that. Like, you know, I'm, my parents were this way, I'm that way.

And you just can't actually

Danny: [00:08:38] improve anything. You don't think that your efforts

Jerred: [00:08:40] actually can improve much. And then the growth mindset

Danny: [00:08:43] would be the opposite of that.

Jerred: [00:08:44] Everything you can figure out, anything, you can learn anything. You can become anything you can work towards anything. That would be the growth mindset.

And that's the mindset you want to push people towards in any capacity.

Yves: [00:08:57] Why do you think some people, this is more of like, can I, we're having a conversation, right? Why. Are some people more fixed rather than gross? Right. And even in certain areas, like, okay, clinically, I'm willing to grow. Do you get C use and sharpen the spear.

But now I'm talking about business and marketing, and suddenly I shut down. And I think now suddenly, and I'm trying to figure out all the reasons.

Jerred: [00:09:20] That's what I'm trying to point out is like, I think that when you get this skillset or education or

Danny: [00:09:24] whatever,

Jerred: [00:09:26] you don't think that you've been properly prepared for because there's no entrepreneur school.

You know, essentially it's, I think that people just feel less prepared, so they think that I don't have these skills, you know? And so it's harder for them to go. There's no place to like get them. So when you've been getting your education from a

Danny: [00:09:43] structured place

Jerred: [00:09:44] for such a long time, it's harder to be like, I just got to go out and learn it on my own.

So you kind of fall back to that natural fixed standpoint I think is what

Danny: [00:09:53] happens to a lot of people

Jerred: [00:09:54] is there's no, there's no, there's genuinely no structure in entrepreneurship. Like most of us, all of us sitting here have learned by wasting a bunch of time and money, and that's just how it works. And that's very uncomfortable.

Danny: [00:10:06] I think the other thing is, is, sometimes you don't have a choice, you know, like. For instance, I had a mentor tell me one time that fear is a powerful motivator, right? So like, when I got to a point in my military career as an F as a physical therapist where I started to resent my, my, my job at the time, like, didn't want to go to work, you know, and.

Well, just like frankly unhappy with the situation I found myself in, and a lot of it was because I went from a position of a lot of autonomy in a brigade, or I got to do a lot of hybrid work to conditioning physical therapy, like educating people on injury prevention work. Then it was right back into a high volume clinic where I also knew my trajectory, right.

It was like, okay, I see what my boss is doing. She's a major, and I'm a captain. I'm going to do what she's doing next because if I want to make Lieutenant Colonel, I have to make this next rule, right? It's a stepping stone job. So when I decided that it was time to do something else, you know, it's a difficult transition.

We've all done it, right? And especially when you have kids in the mix, and you have, you have a significant other, and then all of a sudden it's like. I have to figure this out. Right. So you can't, I don't, I don't know. I mean, there's definitely what to give up. I, there's, there's a, there's a lot of that.

We've seen it recently with people that, you know, we've worked with, and I frankly, I feel bad for them because I, I've been there too, and I know how I guess frustrating. It can be when you're getting turned down when you're like trying to figure something out... It's like the research professor.

I had a Baylor, and I remember John Childs, he's like relatively well known with our profession. He's the laziest John for this ministry, the laziest teacher I've ever had in my life. And here's, here's why I say that because when we went to our research fundamentals, he just gave us a statistics book and that was it.

He gave us a stats book, and we had to figure it out, and his whole philosophy was the best way to figure it out yourself or figure out how to get around. A new city used to get lost, so he just felt like we had to get confused and lost within statistics. Maybe he has some, and there's some merit to it. I think he was just busy with other stuff and he gave us a book, man, figure it out.

But my point is, if you don't have any other option, you can't be fixed. I couldn't just like it. Get turned down or not know how to like set up a website or market or how to get people in my door and then come home and later try to understand like, how the heck am I going to get food for her two kids? You know, that's a, can't do anything for themselves.

So at some point, I think inherently when you take that leap, you don't have a choice. You, you shut yourself into a, it's either a do or die kind of position where you either evolve or you suffer the consequences of not. And for a lot of people, that's enough fear that fear is enough to make the shift.

Because I would say five years ago, like my mindset today is significantly different than it was five years ago. And if it weren't, then that would mean that I'm very stagnant as a human being, right? If five years from now, I hope that I looked back and we listened to this, and we're like, damn, I know shit.

I have so much more to learn. Right. So I don't know. How did it feel for you? Cause you had. Your kids were the same age as mine. Never. You said

Yves: [00:13:15] there are so many things I want to hit on there. I mean, a, I love the idea of that kind of burn the ships

Danny: [00:13:20] type of method of

Yves: [00:13:21] doing things, and I think you're right.

Like when I look back at myself. Last year and I want this to be for the rest of my life. I want to be almost a completely different human every single time. Do you know what I mean? Like I think I know who knows if I do or not. I feel like I do know so much more about

Danny: [00:13:37] everything,

Yves: [00:13:38] but also realize how much I don't know at the same time.

Right. And just like that continuous cycle of cutting, wanting to learn more and realize you need to know even more and just like, it's almost, it gets to be somewhat

Danny: [00:13:49] contagious.

Yves: [00:13:50] We talked earlier about being comfortable with being uncomfortable, and like now, it's to the point where like. If I'm nervous, I'm embarrassed.

Which is interesting, right? Like I hate being uncomfortable. Hey, I want to get there in some regards, but in most respects, just want to continue to be embarrassed because then I realize you know, that kind of, if you're not growing, you're dying.

Danny: [00:14:11] Or Jerred, like I would love to hear you know how it was for you because not only did you go from.

You know, in the military, I was a physical therapist. I didn't change careers. You went from flying jets to starting an online health and wellness business. That's probably complete, and I can't think of like much. It's like a polar opposite. I mean, it was different. So for you, yeah. What was that transition like?

Jerred: [00:14:36] Yeah, I mean, it was, it was kind of tough, I think because you start to wrap your identity around certain things, you know, being in the aviation world for such a long time, like. I knew that I didn't want to be a commercial pilot or anything like that. I always thought I would fly a cool jet in the Air Force and then do something else after the fact.

So I wasn't like so attached to that like it was life-shattering when that dream was snatched away from me. But it was quite a transition because I hadn't spent the time building a name in the industry that I wanted to go into. It was just like.

Danny: [00:15:09] Everything was from scratch,

Jerred: [00:15:10] like you're saying, like you, you walked out of the army with a skill set that had been practiced.

And I like, while I was always into fitness and had been coaching a little bit on the side or whatever, it wasn't anything significant to where it was like, you know, I've been putting in 50 hours a week to be this expert. So yeah, I had to, I had to start from scratch on every regard, going unproven.

Untested online business a, in a field where I don't even really have a name. It was, I don't know, a bit later, Chris, not to look back on it, but I think you hit on it is that fear mentality. A lot of people ask me about online business and me, I tell them that you can't be a person who, like, I don't do that thing.

Like, I get that a lot like, Oh, well, yeah, I'm not, I'm not, I don't do websites. Nope. Not an option. Like you do, you do a website because you're a solo-preneur with no money. You do a website, you know, like if you get to a point where you can hire a bunch of shit out, and you want to be that person and sound cool, go for it.

But in the beginning, you have to learn how to do everything if you want to succeed. And a lot of that comes from fear of failing, fear of failure that just is going to keep

Danny: [00:16:19] propelling you forward. Yeah, I mean, it's a high point. I mean, even the way, like the website, I remember building our website. Well, I was still in the army.

I had like a, and I guess it was probably the last month that I was in before I went on a, you know, my terminal leave and to retire or not earning to get out. Yeah.

Jerred: [00:16:36] Sound sounds way worse for people who aren't

Danny: [00:16:41] So I had like two months of that, but before that, the last month that I was in, Over lunch before work, after work. I would be, I would be building whatever I thought or was. It looks different now than it did initially, but like I had just to slap something together so that I could start putting content up.

I knew I wanted to put like blogs up and stuff like that, and I didn't know shit about building websites. You see, I don't know anything about content creation or marketing or sales like I didn't know any of this stuff. And I think for a lot of people it's also what stops them. It's like there's so much, there's just so much to like have to learn or absorb or try to get right there.

They get this, and we see this with people that even though I've gotten our blueprint like we were talking about the earlier day like we follow up with them, they're a year out, and they haven't done anything. And it's because. They, they get this, what is it, paralysis by analysis. They're like, Oh, where do I start?

What do I do next? And they do nothing because it's comfortable just to do nothing and maintain, and it's uncomfortable to then put yourself in a position where you have to struggle to like learn something. But I think that's, for me, if it wasn't for going into business for myself, I think that would be much less resilient.

Who would be, I just don't, I just learn so much about, Maybe not. I guess in some ways, and maybe physically, it's like your adjourns capacity to be able to work, but also mentally like your ability to solve problems and learn things and go outside of what you think you can do. Like do you just learn a lot about yourself?

And a lot of, a lot of times it's in a somewhat of a harsh environment, you know, like, well, it's like sort of the obstacles, the way idea, right? Like things that I thought were terrible turned out to be. Some of the most important lessons that I've ever learned. Right. And so I, I believe that it's, it's challenging to say that you can learn this stuff from a book, or you can learn this from a mentor.

It's like you can like to learn how to exercise from a book, or you have to fucking exercise to get benefits from it. Do you know what I'm saying? So we're kind of suffer

Yves: [00:18:40] for workouts.

Danny: [00:18:41] Right, right. And I think there's, and I think, physical training. Has a lot of carrying over to entrepreneurship as well because you, you know, yes.

Like sometimes, you don't want to get up and go, but you don't have a choice. So I think if we were looking at this, this fixed versus growth mindset, I also, I, you know, I would like to throw in this idea of like, people viewing themselves as a victim. Too much. And, I've had, I've talked to people on the phone about this, they were interested in, do you know, join our mastermind, or I'm just doing business consulting, and I'll stop people dead in their tracks.

And they're like, yeah, but so-and-so down the street, like doesn't want to, it doesn't want to send people my way. I like, dude, stop that shit right there. Like you're blending another human being for not wanting them to do something you want them to do. Like your baby, you haven't developed a relationship enough.

Maybe your service isn't good enough to warrant them sending their clients to see you. Like, don't blame other people. Like, let's figure out what you can do to improve that. And it's so exciting for me to, and I don't know if many people just haven't been coached, like in a very blunt manner. I don't think people get yelled at as much as they used to.

But to get somebody to like to learn to tell you like, dude, you're probably not as cool as you think. And if you were, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Maybe you're not as good of a clinician as you feel. Perhaps you don't have as good of fulfillment as with things. And that's a difficult thing to, for somebody to get challenged with.

So like this idea of growth and fixed is excellent, but like the victim mindset, the victim mentality, I feel like that can Rob people of so much potential growth, you know, in its own right. So what have you guys found? Because I'm guilty of this too. We have you found anything has been helpful to get you back on track of like, all right, I'm starting to blame other people.

I've got to get back on track with this growth mindset versus fixed.

Yves: [00:20:27] Yeah. I mean, you're talking about, we talked about it earlier, this victim mindset, and it's one of our core values at me to move is the ownership aspect,

Danny: [00:20:37] right?

Yves: [00:20:38] It's just the simple fact of like. Accountability for your actions.

And it goes along with the group of minds and the fact that I can control, you know, you have control like it is up to you and nobody else. It has nothing to do with the person down the street. It has nothing to do with your environment, has nothing to do with your parents and how you grew up. Doesn't anything to do with like where you went to school.

It has everything to do with how you are perceiving what's going on and how you're reacting. You can respond in one way.

Danny: [00:21:06] This is, I go through this all the time, like

Yves: [00:21:08] all licensees, things aren't going my way, and I was like, you can react this way and be the victim, or you direct this way and figure it out.

You choose like there's not really, it's cut and

Danny: [00:21:20] dry. For most people. It's like

Yves: [00:21:21] a or B. You can choose and like when you put it that way, they're just like, okay, I'm going to pick; hopefully, you're going to pick B every single time, and it makes us, for me, I want to make things as simple as possible.

Just not that smart. I want to keep it simple. So I'm going to pick one or the other. I'm going to go for B every single time and just figure it out. And they taking tiptoe and four, five times, ten times, but I'm going to figure out, yeah, and

Jerred: [00:21:43] it sneaks up on you. So I had to think about that for a minute after you asked.

I was like, have I have, I, cause I've been, I feel like I've been so far removed from the victim mentality that it, it almost doesn't associate anymore. But now I was thinking about it. So the first year of my business. I wasn't necessarily blaming anybody, but I was waiting on other people. I was like, the company is going, it's going okay.

But I kept thinking like, I'm going to get a big break when some so-and-so does this, or like when this happens, and I was on a trip, I was actually by myself and me just at a conference, and I realized, not through anyone saying, I just realized then and there I was like. Wait, wait. You're like fully in control of how hard you press the gas pedal.

And ever since I realized that it'd been several years now, like I just got excited shit on everything. I was like, Oh yes, I'm in control of this. I don't have to wait on someone else to provide some sort of opportunity or something break or like anything like that. And so literally from that point, I'm like, okay, I'm going to read a book every week.

You know, I'm going to do this. I'm going to learn everything. And since I've had that like aggressive.

Danny: [00:22:50] Well, you read a book every week.

Jerred: [00:22:52] Well, I've slowed down a little bit,

Danny: [00:22:53] but I want to say, geez, that's a lot of

Jerred: [00:22:54] books. After that realization, I, yeah, I, I committed to a book a week. I did that for a year, and then I slowed down a little bit, but.

Yeah. Probably about every ten days now I'm so crushing a book, listening, listening to a book.

Danny: [00:23:08] When I say read, I mean,

Jerred: [00:23:09] when I say read, I mean, listen,

Danny: [00:23:11] I probably would still, sure. You're still getting in the brain in the 200 bucks. I

Jerred: [00:23:16] read-only

Danny: [00:23:17] two of them. You read the rest

Jerred: [00:23:19] and then the last couple of years they've all been listened to, but I ever since then I've been getting after it and.

You know, going to, if someone's in their entrepreneurial journey right now, I'm a firm believer, and it's like, what do I learn? Like, what do I do? Like what is the thing? And yeah, there, there are some skillsets of like marketing and copy and sales that you need to know to be good at business.

But I think if you just get in practice, a daily or weekly practice of just making yourself better. How whatever that is. Like if you're going to read

Danny: [00:23:49] a book or

Jerred: [00:23:50] exercise, whatever, just make sure that you're doing that stuff all the damn time, you'll find out the better you make yourself and the more confidence you are, everything else is going to get better too, to include your business.

Danny: [00:24:00] Yeah. Competence is, is, is that linchpin sort of to me in particular, I noticed that with, you know, the people that we work with. But also just. I mean, only in general, I feel like successful people, they're just confident with what they're doing. And on the, on the flight here, I watched a free solo, the Alex tunnel, documenter.

Jerred: [00:24:21] I loved it. Yeah,

Danny: [00:24:22] dude, that was intense. I mean, I was like sweating.

Jerred: [00:24:26] Yeah. It was perfect.

Danny: [00:24:27] watching him climb up the mountain there. But, but what I thought was interesting. And I was like, damn, this is so accurate. He talked about how much confidence was essential for him to to be able to be in the right mindset to climb a mountain with no rope, free solo it, and in the, in the film you see him.

Going up to these different sections of it, taking these elaborate notes on everything, like understanding like when he explains like that tricky part of like going around like I think it's, I forget what it's called, like this challenging section on the way up and how he has to like put his thumb and then put his two fingers in him around.

Then he has to move his feet, and then he has to like kick a leg out. Then he has to like move sends his balance over like Holy shit. Like there's a reason why this guy can do it is that he's got so many reps and he's getting confidence in his skill. So. For me, I feel the same way. Like maybe you're not confident when you're doing right now, but how much practice have you put it?

Like before, I started teaching from mobility one I like. Memorize the entire manual and recited it for weeks. I would stand in the guest room. We had an at our house in Columbus, Georgia, and I would stand over the whiteboard, and I would like to write the shit out, and I would talk it out. Ask you to get so tired of this.

Imagine a grown man talking to nobody in a room for eight hours. I would do that. I did that plenty of times, not once, probably ten times, because I knew I would say in front of 50 people, and I had to present this material intelligently. And the only way I could do that in a way where I wouldn't come off like shaking like crazy and, and just being anxious was I had to like memorize it.

Memorize the entire manual. So I did it. It took me a long time, but like there's confidence associated with the mastery of material or close to the knowledge of content. So I think that's the other variable for people. Like you're talking about. You had your 200 books, 200 books down on like personal development, business, whatever else you're listening to, you probably, hunger games.

I don't know what you're throwing in there like that. I don't, I can't tell fiction, but that's a lot of books. That's a lot of information. There's a competence that comes along with that. So I think part of it is if you're trying to, maybe you're kind of stuck in this fixed mindset or victim mindset, but if you can just do something as simple as trying to get through a book every ten days, like.

Books are cheap education. Do that for you know, not even, let's just say, let's say two books a month. We'll taper it down with it, or to get you to two books a month and see where you're at. Competence wise any year. I guarantee you if you did that, your confidence and your ability to like go out and do something entrepreneurial or whatever the hell it is you want to learn about, it'd be so much.

But because I've done the same thing, I think books are enormous.

Yves: [00:27:08] Nobody talks about those little things. I had never heard that story before of you practicing in front of a mirror for eight hours.

Danny: [00:27:20] Like

Yves: [00:27:21] that takes like a certain amount of just like dedication and like work ethic. Also, go along, goes along with everything else that I think, you know, people always talk about like, Oh, you're here, and you're successful. Like nobody ever, it sounds cliche, but like nobody talks about all the hard work that kind of took

Danny: [00:27:36] you to get there.

Like you just

Yves: [00:27:37] like a wake-up and be able to present in front of 50 people like, no, you sat in front. Well, I can't help but picture it. It seems hilarious. You know, just doing it over and over again until it was like, yeah, you're accurate. Extremely powerful. And people need to know that.

Danny: [00:27:56] Well, I mean, I feel like people underestimate the amount of work it takes to get a business started.

I mean, if, if I knew what it took, I'm not quite sure that I would like, where are our families currently at? I'm not quite sure. I would, and I don't know. I would have a harder time going back and doing it. Knowing it's not, it's better not to know. So maybe don't listen to this part, but. The reality is it's fucking hard mentally, physically, and, but that being said, the ability to take a chance on yourself and more than anything, the creation of something that has really.

It's yours. It's you decide what you do, determine how you do. It has freedom over like what you chose to do and the time freedom to do the things that you think are most important. I don't know if that's worth it's, it's much more important to me than any of the financial changes we've had over the last five years and it gets easier.

Yves: [00:28:55] Right. As you said, it's hard for you to get

Danny: [00:28:56] back in that

Yves: [00:28:57] mindset. It's the same thing for me. Sometimes

Danny: [00:29:00] it's easier, or do you think you just get more accustomed to it. The discomfort associated with nothing being, you know what I mean? Like

Yves: [00:29:08] I want to agree with that, but I'm saying it's the same easier.

I'm just very comfortable with doing something that's really freaking scary and just doing it again,

Danny: [00:29:18] just different problems eventually. Right? Like, do you just end up problems, get more significant problems, get more complicated? But you're, you're in a. You have more information, you have more resources, you have more experience, and then you get an opportunity to solve those problems.

Right. So I think it's one of the like some people will think, Oh man, like am I ever going to get the point where I can cash out, and I can do nothing? But that sounds like torture. That sounds awful. I think that one of the best things about entrepreneurship is you can't be complacent. Oh, you can, but eventually, that's going to bite you in the ass.

Yeah. I

Yves: [00:29:52] have one quick like, interesting question. I am just more curious about you all spots. So when you get to something new, and an obstacle or you're about to tackle something that you know is going to be difficult, I think the importance of self-talk is, is vast of like, what are you saying to yourself?

Do you know? So like when you about to tackle that problem, what is the. Mine process that you guys go through when you're like, all right, I'm about to do a presentation or a belt. Have to learn this new skill or about to have to whatever that thing maybe. Tackle this workout. It could be the same. Like, you know, I have a specific process I feel like I go through, but I'm inquisitive if you guys.

What you guys say cause I think that's important. A lot of people self-talk I noticed is like, I can't do this. Like, I don't believe this is going to happen. I might as well quit now, you know, as opposed to like, you know, and, and I'll have those thoughts too. I'll, those initial thoughts will be there, but almost immediately I'm like, no, I've, I've done this before.

And like. You know, let's go ahead and just try this. Let's see what happens. And then, Oh man, I was able to do this. Right. And so really curious what you guys, if you know, putting you on the spot,

Danny: [00:31:03] I'm going to go. You go.

Jerred: [00:31:04] I mean, I think my self-talk, is it, it, I, it's almost going to come off the wrong way, but like, and I'm incredibly confident.

Even to myself, like almost to a fault, like I've always said like I'm almost even growing up, you know, my parents or whatever, but

Danny: [00:31:21] like

Jerred: [00:31:22] you can, you can have like an entitled mentality if you're willing to go work your ass off to get what you think that you're entitled

Danny: [00:31:30] for.

Jerred: [00:31:30] I won't go down the millennial rabbit hole there and just saying, but like, that's, I've always been like.

Like, who can do this fucking better? Like, you know, like, like name them.

Danny: [00:31:40] And then if I,

Jerred: [00:31:41] if I can find that person, later I'll try and learn what they do. But most of the time, I just go and confident. That takes a lot of reps, though, but it always determines like where you're at. I didn't feel like that and entrepreneurship for a long time, and I still feel like I run up across problems, but I'm so confident in my Bay, not my ability to do it, but my ability to figure it out.

So I'm always like. Something comes up, I'll be like, yeah, like I don't know what, what I'm going to do here, but you know what? I'm like damn confident in my ability to learn how to solve the problem. So that's where my self-talk goes is like, yeah, I might be scared shitless or not,

Danny: [00:32:14] you know, nothing is possible or

Jerred: [00:32:16] whatever.

But I think I'm extremely confident. My ability to learn how to do things, and that's normally where my self

Danny: [00:32:22] talk is.

Yves: [00:32:22] Yeah, everybody's is different.

Danny: [00:32:26] I think one of the. I guess resources have been beneficial for me. That stuff has been like, I mean, a lot of Jocko Willink stuff. I think his thing is perfect.

I love his kids' books. I mean, I think like by and large, most of the stuff that he talks about is just really, really spot on. It's beneficial for the most part, but he has this little, it's like a two-minute clip. I think the name of the video was just right or something like that. It's a great video.

It's the best video.

Jerred: [00:32:52] Probably his most

Danny: [00:32:53] popular. I watch it probably like at least every month

Jerred: [00:32:57] I'm getting a good tattoo. Right.

Danny: [00:33:02] So and, and the point of the point, and maybe we can like. Figure out how to link this, and

Jerred: [00:33:09] if it's educational, we can just play it, you know?

Danny: [00:33:12] That's true. Wrap it in here. I wonder.

I don't want to screw anything up. Here's the deal. Go to YouTube and just type in Jocko Willink. Good. That's it. And we'll let you watch it after this, and then he'll be good to stay up all night working. I guess the summary of it is, you know, he talks about. Anytime something negative would happen with his, his guys, when he was in the military, he would always say, okay, good.

That gives us time to do something else that is good. Now we get to do this good. We just learned this. Now we're going to be better off because of whatever. And so for me, I tried to take that Mmm. With whatever's going on, with, within, you know, within my life, you know, whether or not just business-wise, but only in general.

And also with our kids. And I think that's the, and I would say the things that I've learned the most from starting a business. I've learned a ton from that about myself, but also just like, had to learn a lot, and having kids because, you know, kids are interesting men, kids, model you both positively and negatively.

And, and also, I feel like it's an opportunity for us to take all this. All this same time and repetition and experience that we do have where we've tried to like to develop ourselves. So just continually progressed, and then we get to apply that to these little human beings that we're raising. Like I can't say, you know, there's nothing wrong with my parents and my parents were excellent, but I can't ever say that they ever sat down and like explain things to me about why.

You can't quit or why it's, you know, it's okay to get frustrated, but are you learning anything from that? You know, really. It wasn't like I came from a house where I think I told you I was still in that. Like I, I think I saw my dad cry one time. His work dog died. It is in my entire, like, like I can do it.

I can think. Right. But that's because that's the way he was raised. It wasn't like we don't talk about emotions at anything. Right. It's like, not that, that's just not it. But. There's that. And there's different between talking about learning from mistakes or learning about something that's going to help you along the way.

So I think that for me, I look at it, it's something like, like what Jocko talks about, but also, you know, how would I want my kids to respond to a particular situation? Like what kind of, what kind of example would I want to be able to show to them because they are watching everything? I do. You know, all of our kids are, so if we are contradictory and hypocritical about, we say something.

Yeah. Like I told my kids not to eat sugar. Right? They catch me eating a fricking ounce of something, and they call me out. It's annoying, but it's true.

Yves: [00:35:52] Totally.

Danny: [00:35:53] So that's, I look at, I look at them as a way to you also. Mmm. I understand. The idea that you respond to things, how would I, what was, I want them to take away from it, and I try to model that as well.

And

Jerred: [00:36:08] how much of this you can learn versus how much is just innate, I mean, good books to like follow up on this. This discussion is grit by Angela

Danny: [00:36:17] Duckworth

Jerred: [00:36:17] and mindset by Carol Dweck, but Carol, she covers a little bit more of like the kid's standpoint of like, where does it come from? Can we build it in children and everything?

Because. To be honest that I'm trying to reflect a little bit more on like where some of this stuff, what was my tech came from, but Emily and I got married when I was,

Danny: [00:36:36] we were,

Jerred: [00:36:36] we were both 22 years old. So we got married, and I was kind of putting our finances together cause I knew we both had debt and everything.

I was like adding everything up and like Excel or something

Danny: [00:36:45] like that. I was just want to see where we wrap

Jerred: [00:36:48] minimum monthly payments. I remember I finally calculated it all out, and it was like $101,000 and 300 something. You know, like

Danny: [00:36:56] how was it. Shit.

Jerred: [00:36:58] And I think a lot of people would have been stressed out or, and I was like, this is going to make such a good story when I pay all this shit.

That was how I was like, that was just my thought and I, that was the only time I ever paused and was like, yeah, you're a little weird. Like why would you have that thought? Do you know? It's like a detached, like

Danny: [00:37:13] thought an idea about an idea.

Jerred: [00:37:15] But I was like, that's like a, a very different type of mindset to have.

So. If you don't have these skillsets, you can learn them. But a lot of it could be,

Danny: [00:37:23] you know, from your parents, from different

Jerred: [00:37:25] things that you picked up the, that Jocko right mentality. Some

Danny: [00:37:28] people were just like born

Jerred: [00:37:29] with that. I guarantee Jocko didn't go on some self-development journey to learn this shit is just Jocko was Jocko, you know, and like he picked that shit up the wrong way.

And so it's, it's like this,

Yves: [00:37:42] well it's, it's interesting to think about like I look back at my life a little bit. And I was an only child for ten years, and I had a special needs little sister that got spent on him, Jason, she's three months old. And that changed our lives completely. And I attribute a lot of my mindset and how I view things of like seeing that journey of my, of my little sister.

Right. And I feel like that's a big part of that development. Some people are born with it, and I feel like environmentally that was a big part of like. Holy crap. Just like Ewing, another human life in that way. And how she, your perspective, like they gave me a lot of attitudes and like put the flywheel.

So it's like, it can come from the kind of either route from that kind of ability you're born with it. Or maybe like something happened in your life and like, all right, it's time to get my shit together. Bam. And then you're gone. The flywheel starts going

Danny: [00:38:29] well. It's interesting to be able to look back on that stuff, too, you know?

And I think this is just. I think a lot of people shy away from that. Looking back at things that they'd be lessons they learned or stressful situations that they went through, or maybe, I mean, it honestly could just be lots of different things that happened to you as a kid, but they have such a strong effect on like the way you view things.

But we see this all the time with, with money, right? Like I told a story about my grandparents, they would boil the ham, as we would go to their house. They were the cheapest, you know, like. Quintessential, my, my, my, my grandfather is Scottish. My grandmother was Irish. The Scott Scottish aren't like notoriously cheap human beings, right?

So like, he would boil a ham, and we'd eat that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for a week. Like, my brother's just dragged, cannot eat pork. And it was because. They're depression era people. And so they were always like, we don't know if this is going to happen again because we lived through the great depression in it, right?

And then, okay, your parents, that's how they grow up, right? They view things in a certain way. And in business, like having a mindset like that can be very detrimental. You look at everything in the scarcity mentality. You're always like worried about somebody taking your business, and you know, there's all this fear associated with it and not realizing that like.

There's, there's always going to be more money to be made if always more people to work with. It just gets transferred to people that are willing to grow. And also, and people that make better decisions, like dumb people, will lose money, and customers and people that are resilient and smart will gain them.

So which one do you want to be? If you're going to go to business yourself, I hope you decide to go the route of like growing and to try to be as best as you possibly can. So I mean, I just think that's when we started looking at some of this stuff. There's only so much that can be attributed that, but it's, I think for a lot of people, they never really look at it that way, and maybe they never had anybody talk to them about like, Hey, do you ever think that this might have something to do with the idea that you view this?

I am don't know, man. I see so many people that are just out there. I have family members like this, and they just blame other people for it, and they've had shitty things that happened to them. I created, I haven't had a lot of bad shit happened to me in my life, and I have family members that have. And they're just, and they're very bitter.

They're tough to be around—sort of like energy, bolters socks. And there's, they add stress to our family, and when we go to talk to him about stuff like that, it's like they want nothing. To do with it, and it's tough in that position. Would you talk to your family member versus somebody that's maybe outside of the, disassociated from, from your family? Still, you know, if it continues to point people, if there's nothing useful, it just makes it worse and worse.

You say that

Yves: [00:41:12] not a lot of bad things happened to you, but I can think of multiple stories that have, and I feel like that's just video is going to be stuck in my head forever. You just were like, Oh crap, I have to sell. This, whatever the cold thing was that you had to sell for your practice.

Danny: [00:41:28] You

Yves: [00:41:28] know what I mean? Oh, I didn't get deployed, and I'm like, you know, good. You kept saying, Oh good, this is my next opportunity. Okay, good. This is like, that was very much to do with like how you perceived

Danny: [00:41:37] that

Yves: [00:41:37] not necessarily what happened to you. There's, I'm sure if you look back and you could have got taken everything a completely different way, and you're like.

The

Danny: [00:41:44] air force, like, Oh

Yves: [00:41:45] good, now I can go, I can tackle $100,000 worth of debt. Like, yeah, it's a little crazy, but it's just

Danny: [00:41:51] purely based

Yves: [00:41:52] off of your mindset. Self-talk, I think, you know, I don't know if it comes down to one thing, but that seems like a critical starting point for a lot of people.

Danny: [00:42:00] I wonder how much is trainable, though? Cause like, I mean, I have two siblings, and they're both, I mean, they're both perfect people, but definitely, they fall into a very similar path. They like my dad. With government workers through and through the straight army, 25 years. He's been in the government system as GS employee for I think almost 20 now.

So he's 45 years roughly in the government system. Right. And the perfect job for him is a job where he's at eight; they're at eight o'clock in the morning, leave at four, has about three hours during the day where he doesn't have to do anything, and he's still getting paid like that's like the ideal job for him.

Right. My brother and sister, very similar. That type of environment makes me feel awful. Like, I feel terrible. It's, the days are so long, I'm not getting any, like, I don't know, enjoyment out of that. And I wondered, you know, we are all in the same family. Like, I don't have to come from a broken home. My parents are still married.

They still like each other. Like, I was like Leave It to the Beaver family. Right? Like, so there's a helpful sort of like internal turmoil, turmoil there. But, I don't know how much of that is like nature versus nurture, or how much is that trainable? Like, I think it's trainable, but I believe certain people bias more towards one viewpoint than another.

I don't know. Have you ever had like talk to anybody about getting out of that?

Yves: [00:43:18] Well, I think, I think it's,

Jerred: [00:43:21] you'll have to come to some sort of, like, you'll have to see it somewhere else. See it come true, like see it in somebody else. And like, here's just another example. And I mean, it's kind of along the same lines, but Mmm.

I used to be skeptical,

Danny: [00:43:37] like a super skeptic.

Jerred: [00:43:38] A lot of people pride themselves and their skepticism. I like to see it all the time. And so I used to be like, if I saw like a, an online course for $2,000 teaching me digital marketing, I'd be like,

Danny: [00:43:51] I'm not going to fall for your trick.

Jerred: [00:43:53] I'm not going to spend that.

You won't get me in your sales funnel. You know, like all this stuff.

Danny: [00:43:57] He's like super, super skeptical about

Jerred: [00:43:59] this stuff, and I see it all the time. With the things that cost money, you know, and like these people with their mindsets around it. But then I'll never forget. So

Danny: [00:44:08] I sought a mentor

Jerred: [00:44:09] for a long time, but there was a, it's, there was a six month time period from when I graduated college until I could go active duty.

And I had to get a job during that time timeframe. And so I worked for this incredibly wealthy entrepreneur, and she sat me down, and she was like, you can be here for the next six months and collect a paycheck in lead check. That's fine. Or. You can learn as much as possible and like basically change your life.

And I was like, and I'll try that one. And so just started looking around her office, her office, and her office was like full of shit that like you see on like infomercials about how to buy real estate. All this stuff that you'd think is bullshit that you see on TV or like online. You like to think there are scams

Yves: [00:44:51] she had bought into every single one of them.

Jerred: [00:44:53] And she's, her net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars, you know? And so like once I saw that I was like, Oh, maybe there's something to like spending money on these things and want to get something out of it. But if I never had an experience like that, I would be exactly what you're saying, like this, like super scarcity.

Let's, let's be super

Danny: [00:45:13] comfortable work the government job

Jerred: [00:45:15] type thing. So I think it was like. But you may have been like more innate the way you are. I have like a transformational moment, almost where I was like. You can't be this way like that. So I think that you can change, but I don't know if you can necessarily just sit there and train yourself.

I think you have to

Danny: [00:45:31] see it happen

Jerred: [00:45:33] that it has to be some catalyst for that change if you

Danny: [00:45:35] aren't in

Jerred: [00:45:36] where you want to be right now.

Danny: [00:45:37] Yeah, that's a good point, man. In particular, I felt the same way with digital stuff. Like the idea of investing in information seemed dumb to me. Yeah. You know, it's is not tangible.

I'm not putting this in my Roth IRA. Like. I didn't get it. Yeah. You know, and now, I mean, she had a look at us, we're out here, and we're in Salt Lake for a workshop, and we're hoping it takes, like, if we take one thing away from this that has to do with finance investing, you know, whatever cashflow.

That can benefit ourselves, our businesses, and then leverage that to our mastermind. So fuck, it's a win.

Jerred: [00:46:14] Yeah.

Danny: [00:46:14] Just one damn thing. I'm down to do that. And this is, this is an expensive course and trip. So, you know, I, it's interesting, like once you start to realize like that there's a return on investment if you take information and act on it.

I think that's the biggest key, like if you buy information if you invest knowledge and you don't like to implement it, it's a waste of your mind. You should be skeptical like nothing's going to happen.

Yves: [00:46:38] But if you

Danny: [00:46:40] do that, and this is the hard part, so where nobody follows through, it's like that's where the work is.

You can't buy it. And then instantly your graph, you have this kind of gratification where you're like, Oh, cool, I solved the problem. It's like if I buy like six-minute abs, you know, okay, I bought it. I got abs doesn't work that way. You have to put the, and you have to put the work in. So, you know, I think that mindset change is enormous, and it's probably been one of those things that.

Over the last, however many years, it's helped. Your business grows significantly because now all of a sudden, you see your friend who's worth hundreds of millions of dollars with having all these notebooks and DVDs of like Dean Graziosi and, and she's crossing it. Yeah. So, I agree. That's really.

Are you or anything like that?

Yves: [00:47:24] For sure. I feel like there's a lot of inflection moments like you've talked about. So like one that's a fascinating story, and we've talked about it maybe in previous podcasts,

Jerred: [00:47:32] but,

Danny: [00:47:33] so

Yves: [00:47:35] I was going to sell my insurance-based practice, possibly go cash.

Across the gym owner took your MobilityWOD class and told me about you, you don't know how much you remember this, but we had a phone call, which is a regular phone call. And we're like, Hey, I'm doing this cash thing. I had no idea about it as like, Oh, that sounds awesome. You know, like, Oh, I might do that.

I might not, you know? And then I'm about to make that final decision. And I reached back out to you, and I was like, Hey, what's going on? Like I'm going to come to hang out. And you're like, well, yeah, it costs. I forgot what,

Danny: [00:48:09] I think it was $600. I remember why we did that because Kelly's dread told me, I had assumed if people reach now, about, business mentorship, and I'm trying to run my damn business at the time.

Right. And he was like, dude, just put a number on it. And the right people will say yes and there, and the wrong people will be deterred. Yup. And you're the first person that ever say, and there were probably a dozen people before you. I said that too. And they, they. We're like, Oh, nevermind. And when you answered yes, I have no idea what the hell is going to happen.

I had to, and I had to reschedule for patients' middle of the day because I didn't know what to do. I figured we needed some time for like lunch, so I talk or something, and Ashley, I remember asked, he was like, Oh crap, you have to go through with it now, so you'll

Yves: [00:48:52] look like multiple times.

Danny: [00:48:56] Great job. My point is like. Look at where we're heading now. And, and, I think that the willingness to like, reach out for help and associate that time with, you know, something that's. But it's worth your time to go there and to learn. I mean, that's rare now. A lot of people do that. Yeah. I

Yves: [00:49:15] mean, that was my first time, so like pretty much up until then, I was like, yeah, I can figure this stuff out.

Like totally on my own. Like I've gotten to this point my entire life. Basically. I was like, I'm going to pay $600 just to go like watching somebody's treatment.

Danny: [00:49:29] I was like,

Yves: [00:49:30] I don't know what it was. It was like, I've never seen this done before. I need to physically

Danny: [00:49:35] go see it.

Yves: [00:49:36] And then, yeah, I mean.

I told the story to another physical therapist, he reached out to me and had coffee with, and I was like, that was a huge inflection point. That was just the point where I realize that once you pay money for something and when I was physically able to see it and do it, it just, everything kind of clicked.

Danny: [00:49:57] It was a lot of confidence for that. Right, and I remember sitting at lunch with you, and you said, I'll never forget. It was so funny. You were like. You seem to just kind of talk to people all

Yves: [00:50:09] the time. People say to me all the time, what do you do all day?

Danny: [00:50:13] And we're sitting there at lunch. I was like, is probably like 50% bullshit trying to do something, but w what I, this was, I was only like a year into the practice.

Right. What I didn't realize was not unlike the hard skill side, right? Like the actual, like just engaging with another human being, like having a conversation with them. It is so valuable. You know, like, I can't think of anybody that ever cried when I was at, you know, in a room with them doing an email or followup or anything like that.

But on the army, never, never. And I'm sure I had to deal with going through some stressful shit. It usually, a week doesn't go by where somebody's not breaking down in my office and not, not that I'm like, you know, it's, I'm not like, Hey, you know, you're a piece shit like that's not bad. We're just talking about what's going on.

And no one's ever listened to them. W, which is so crazy for me. And that just that you pointed that out was helpful for me. Thrills like, Oh yeah, you're right. Like I think they will do that and that we teach that to our staff. You know, we're like, dude, don't go straight into it. You got to talk to them about what the hell is going on in their life.

We're trying to make a connection with them. And I mean, I think that's important. I learned a lot from that one day in its own right. So I mean like the fact that I should have paid you for it. That's really,

Yves: [00:51:28] yeah. I mean, that's the reason I eventually went past was that like basically that one day I kind of looked around, I was like, yes, there's no reason.

I kind of looked at what I was doing before, looked at what you were doing, and I was like, there's no way I can not do

Danny: [00:51:42] what you're doing. And just

Yves: [00:51:44] from then on out, I could have quickly just said, no. And be like, eh, and I could be running a freaking insurance-based practice right now and being miserable, but instead, now we're a multi-clinic, multi, you know, helping other PTs.

Interesting exact thing. Like you can somewhat kind of a one-moment kind

Danny: [00:52:03] of like,

Yves: [00:52:04] it's just, yeah, it's very, even the inflection point of you inviting me to come into the mastermind was another difficult time. Like what? What's a genius? Why am I paying to hang out with other people? Like I don't know.

But then again. The same inflection point. Now we are where we are.

Danny: [00:52:20] Well, it comes back to countenance, right? Like, I mean, think, think about, okay, you coming to Atlanta and seeing my office, which was like very bare-bones, right? I mean, it was. It wasn't like some super fancy office. The gym was bare could leave anything in your car without it getting broken

Yves: [00:52:38] into.

I don't get up till like 10:00 AM.

Danny: [00:52:42] Yeah. Yeah. But not only that but then I think people would be shocked. Like clinically, I'm no genius. Like there's plenty of people that are smarter than me clinically. So if anything, somebody would spend a day with me would probably get confidence in like. Well, this guy's not that smart.

And if he, if this is working for him, like I'm probably better for the practitioner. Like I could do this too. And I think there's compensation to that. But then you take that same, that, that same idea of confidence and then you get around a group of other people that are all figuring it out, don't know what's going on, working towards the same goal, maybe figured some stuff out and they're openly sharing it.

What you get from that is just like such a huge confidence boost and confidence plus. Actual skills are dangerous in business. Like you'll be shockingly affected that what you're trying to do if you're confident and people can tell, you can know if you're confident in your skills, that you're confident in your mission and what you're trying to impact.

Or if you're just trying to fake it so apparent and that comes, so sometimes you get to buy it, you know, you got to buy it as well. That's why I got involved—business groups. I didn't know how to run a business.

Yves: [00:53:47] Surround yourself. We were talking about earlier and surrounding yourself with people kind of likeminded and who want to, you know, iron sharpen iron kind of thing.

Got to surround yourself with people who challenge you and have a similar kind of growth mindset. If you surround yourself with people, ethics, mindset, you know,

Danny: [00:54:05] it's to make things,

Yves: [00:54:06] it's almost, it's, I would argue it's almost impossible to be that one person

Danny: [00:54:10] breaks through that mold and continue to be around

those

Yves: [00:54:13] people.

Like we've probably all seen individual relationships that have taken a  yeah. Backside to other links as we've become more entrepreneurial and more—a growth mindset.

Danny: [00:54:25] I mean, that's a whole, that's a complicated topic zone, right? You know, and like Cleveland off some of those relationships that are, maybe I had friends for a long time that are just like not the healthiest people for you to be around, you know, anymore based on what you're trying to do.

And I don't have anything wrong. I think it's a hard thing for people to do, but you're right. What is it? You're the average of the five people you spend the most time with, right? So. I guess we're, and we need to find two more people, to be here right now. Get our average up. You have to find two more. We're going just to find two really like high achievers to bring our standard out.

That's the problem. Well, and this was very unstructured, which is, which is good. I, you know, like we get a chance to have these conversations a lot. You know, not just us, but like I have these conversations with other business owner friends of ours within our mastermind all the time, like, and I think that sometimes the conversations like this are the most beneficial in terms of just candid, you know?

It's just, and it is what it is. It's, it's, it's just our experience at this point. And like I said, in five years, I hope that we look back like I hope in five years, I wish I look back on this podcast, and I'm like, what a fucking eat. This man is making no sense whatsoever. He thinks he knows something, but he didn't know shit, you know?

And every five years that should happen. Hopefully. If it doesn't, and I'm just not, I'm not grilling, you know, none of us are. So anyway, that's it for this one. Hopefully, you guys like, if you did. She let us know, man, shoot me a message on Instagram. You can always leave a comment in the form of an iTunes review as well.

That would be cool unless it's a  bad one like the guy that doesn't like the fact that I use a little bit of profanity. I'm sorry, I lost a listener on that, but that's not changing. Sorry. So anyway, this is the PT Entrepreneur Podcast. I appreciate you listening, and we'll catch you next time.

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