E692 | 5 Keys To Create Lifelong Patients with Yves Gege

In this podcast episode, Danny and Yves delve into the importance of patient retention and the development of ongoing wellness programs in physical therapy practices. While most physical therapy focuses on resolving injuries, many patients also desire help in achieving long-term health and fitness goals. Retention programs address this need by providing ongoing support and guidance.

The first step in developing a successful retention program is selling a plan of care or package upfront. This not only commits patients financially but also ensures that the root causes of their issues are addressed, rather than just treating the symptoms. By doing so, patient outcomes are improved, and trust is built between the patient and the physical therapist.

Seamless communication between clinicians and staff is vital to provide a smooth patient experience. It is important for the staff to be aware of the patient's goals so that they can provide supportive conversations and guidance throughout their journey. Additionally, clinicians should pre-frame the patient's journey by predicting wins and potential challenges. This reassures patients and showcases the clinician's knowledge and trustworthiness.

Another effective strategy discussed in the podcast is asking patients about their goals and training experience, which helps to "widen the gap" between what they can do independently versus with clinical guidance. By positioning the clinician as the logical solution, patients are more likely to continue with the program.

The podcast also highlights the importance of downselling recurring programs by offering a lower monthly price compared to the initial package costs. This enhances the perceived value and encourages patients to continue with the program. Recurring programs not only provide variance and prevent burnout for the clinicians, but they also foster multi-year patient relationships, generating significant lifetime value.

To further diversify revenue streams and ensure long-term sustainability, the podcast suggests incorporating small group training, remote programming, and hybrid cash/insurance models. By doing so, physical therapy practices become more resilient and can adapt to changes in the industry.

While there may be fears or hesitations about implementing new retention strategies, the podcast emphasizes that the rewards often outweigh the risks. Learning occurs through implementation, and practices should not be afraid to test new approaches to improve patient outcomes and practice sustainability.

Overall, this discussion provides a valuable framework for physical therapy practices looking to develop ongoing wellness offerings that not only enhance patient outcomes but also ensure practice sustainability through recurring revenue models.

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] Hey, real quick, if you were serious about starting or growing your cash based practice, I want to formally invite you to go to Facebook and join our PT entrepreneurs Facebook group. This is a group of over 6, 000 providers all over the country. And it's a pretty amazing place to start to get involved in the conversation.

Hope to see you there soon. Hey, are you a physical therapist looking to leverage your skillset in a way that helps you create time and financial freedom for yourself and your family? If so, you're in the right spot. My name is Danny Matei and over the last 15 years, I've done pretty much everything you can in the profession.

I've been a staff PT, I've been an active duty military officer, physical therapist. I've started my own cash practice. I've sold that cash practice. And to date, my company physical therapy business has helped over a thousand clinicians start growing scale, their own cash practices. So if this sounds like something you want to do, listen up, because I'm here to help you.

All right. What's going on? Dr. Danny here with Eve GG in the PT entrepreneurs, Facebook group and on the PT entrepreneurs. Podcast. If you're listening to this on the [00:01:00] podcast and you're not in the Facebook group, do yourself a favor, head over to Facebook, go ahead and look up PT entrepreneurs were the only ones that I know of, or were the only ones with 7, 000 people in the group.

So if you if you see a clone out there, maybe they're trying to do something similar, just check the numbers. We've got 7, 000 clinicians in this group that are all Trying to learn about the business side of, the clinical world and how to be successful on that side, not necessarily just be a successful clinician.

So head over there, request to join. We'll make sure that you are a clinician, but it's a great way to get involved in that conversation because this is a podcast is a one way you listen to me. You listen to Eve, but you don't have an opportunity to say, Hey, I think you're right. Or hey, I think you're wrong.

Or what about this? Or whatever. Or to connect with other clinicians. So it's a great place to do that. So make sure, head over there if that's something that sounds interesting to you. But today, Eve and I get a chance to talk about patient [00:02:00] retention. And interestingly enough, when we got on to talk prior to starting this live stream, we compared notes.

And we basically had the exact same thing. Which is good. That's that's good. Yes. Very positive thing. But the idea of patient retention really comes down to how do you create a patient for life? Like how do we create an environment that allows people to not just solve an injury, which we know we, we definitely help them with.

That's the primary thing that most people think of, physical therapy or clinical practices is I have an injury, I go here, my injury is resolved, and awesome, and that's great, but especially in the performance niche, and it could, this could be, Many things we look at it as, okay, you help golfers golf for longer or hit the ball further, or you help moms get back to running five Ks without stress incontinence, or you help people [00:03:00] deadlift more or CrossFit, do competitions on the weekend or play basketball or whatever it is that they want to do for as long as they want to do it with the people that they want to do it with.

That is the lens that we look at these businesses through, right? And a lot of that comes down to solving an injury for sure. But then. It's being able to help them really take the next step in their health and wellness, which most people have no idea what they're doing with that. And that can come in a number of different ways, right?

We can work on that in lots of ways. It's not really about that as much as it is. How do you create these patients for life so that there is an ongoing relationship and you're really helping people achieve their health and wellness goals. That's it, right? So for patient retention, that's what we think about, and it's not something that I thought anybody even wanted.

Whenever I came out of the military, If someone had come back to my office after their injury was resolved. I would have told him to go away. I would have said, what are you doing? Why are you back here? We're understaffed, it's going to be three weeks before I can get you back in for another [00:04:00] visit.

Get the heck out of here. There's people that are legit hurt that I need to work with. So I didn't have even a concept of this. I didn't start doing any sort of ongoing work with people for honestly, probably a solid year into our practice, if not more. And I'm interested for you, Eve, because you came out of the insurance based world.

Is this an area that you focused on from the beginning or you even thought was something people wanted or did you do like me where it was like, discharge anybody who's even close to being where they wanted to be? For sure.

Yves: Discharging people. Was a part of life, right? Like we wanted to get people, they call it a no for a reason, right?

We wanted to get people in and out as quickly as possible. And we had a really good insurance based practice that I owned ran was pretty good. We had hour long evals, half an hour appointments. We got plenty of time with people, but a hundred percent, it was get them to within normal limits. I still remember that stuff, right?

WFL, WNL within normal limits. Hopefully zero to 10 pain. And as soon as they were there, they were [00:05:00] out the door. The idea of building strength, wellness, maintenance, care was almost frowned upon. It was like, you actually are not allowed to do that. If you do that, insurance actually will not reimburse.

It's illegal. Get them out the door, if you had an athlete, of course, okay, they need to run. They need to be able to kick a ball. So that's when I got excited and I was able to do a little more with people. But ultimately most of my patients were not very active. Didn't necessarily want to be active.

It was more of okay, get them to the point where they can get out of a chair, walk to the mailbox and they would see it later. So it wasn't even, it was never on my radar either. It didn't even seem like something that was in my scope of practice. It was like, why would I see that? Send them to a trainer, send them somewhere else.

And obviously that's not how I feel anymore.

Danny: The population I think is quite different too. Like when I remember when I was in school I spent a year at a, at an outpatient ortho clinic as an intern. But basically, by month three, we had a full schedule, right? [00:06:00] So for the next, the remainder of that year, it was just a full schedule and a high volume, in network clinic, lots of Medicare, lots of work comp, lots of personal injuries and traditional insurance, but the population that I had.

It was not the type of population that, that I had in my cash based practice. It was the type of people, it was just different. Like these people are looking for something that is not the same as people looking for something in network practice. And what I found to be the difference was. These people are kind of outliers.

They are people that are looking to be like they look at their health as an investment. They look at their time very differently in terms of they really value expertise and time, and they want to have a relationship with someone that can help them achieve a goal. Obviously they're hurt in most cases they're coming in and they have an injury.

But. That's not really why they're there. They're, they're there, yes, because their back pain, but is stopping them from something. And that's the thing that [00:07:00] they really value or enjoy, whether they be playing basketball or it's CrossFit or playing soccer with their kids or whatever it might be.

So what I found was, the population is was so different and so interested in longevity that that was not conversations that I was having really. It was very rare to have those conversations with with people, both in the in network clinic that I worked in and then in the military clinics as well, it just really wasn't It wasn't something people were really interested in or even knew that we knew anything about because maybe they had interest, but they had no idea that we actually could help them with that stuff if we had the time to do it.

So I think that's a really big difference as well as I feel like that population of people that are looking to have a meaningful relationship with a medical provider that can help them. Navigate the choppy waters of the healthcare system without surgery, without being told they can't do something that's a, that's something I feel like is the population of those people is growing, which is great [00:08:00] for us.

And if you even look at we just were discussing this morning, right? Our friend Kelly's threat is that CSM and it's because he's helping with a subgroup within the APTA for performance based clinicians. And. I've had so many conversations with him about the same topic, about people that need help with movement, stress management, nutrition, and sleep, and you get, and community, I would throw community in there as a fifth one that's also very important, but if you get those Four to five variables dialed in for somebody all of a sudden, man, they feel better, they can do more they're enjoying their vehicle and life and activities that it lets them do more.

So I think that population is growing and growing, which is a great place to be. If you're listening to this and you're in any sort of like niche that helps people do more than just get over an injury, you obviously have to help them with that, but like you're in a great spot. It's a growing population of people.

And obviously it's a growing niche as well. Yeah.

Yves: You're right. When that was the biggest. stark contrast from when I went from insurance to cash was 100 percent the [00:09:00] kinds of people that came to seek me out. If you want to talk about somebody who prioritized their health and wellness, let's call it a, zero to 10, in an insurance based clinic, the average was like two to three and the average was like eight or nine.

So it was much easier to have those conversations and like work with people on an ongoing basis because they're basically already there. And I just need to potentially nudge them over the edge. Or even, we can talk about this story, but for a lot of times, it was our patients who nudged us over the edge and said Hey, wait a minute, I want to keep working with you, and It's still interesting to have the conversations with most PTs, as they onboard with us, or I have conversations with people who are thinking about it. The idea that we like, don't discharge people, or the idea that we continue to work with people on an ongoing basis, is so foreign still, right?

But, Just as you're saying, culturally, the shift is already happening, right? Kelly struts book, Peter T is book is something we come back to quite a bit. The idea of health and wellness is more [00:10:00] prevalent now than it ever has been. Which is great. It continues to be. I still think of very much a golden age for the performance PT because people have sought it out now way more than they did when we first started our practices.

And it's really cool to see our profession evolving with that, evolving with what, is being culturally demanded right now and continue to be one of the perfectly positioned professions to provide that for our

Danny: people. I'll tell you one trend that I, that I. Have started to become aware of that is interesting to think about and how it relates to this sort of idea of people looking for more proactive health relationships or doing things that are maybe a bit more healthy.

I think that there's things that are less healthy. We're less active. Generally, we don't have as physically demanding jobs. We're not moving as much on a daily basis. And as far as non exercise based movement is concerned. But one of my [00:11:00] buddies is he's in wine sales. Like he sells, so he sells wine.

And what's interesting is to talk to him about the trends of alcohol. Every generation drinks less and less alcohol. And he told me something funny. He was like, yeah, younger populations view alcohol as boomer technology. They're like, why would I put poison in my body? And this is from somebody that's, that sells mainly wine for a living.

And it's he sees it though. He sees the trend going the other direction in terms of people are really they're being much more intentional about their health decisions. Exercise is weird if you don't do it. And you're younger than a certain age. That was not the case with my parents.

That really wasn't the case. That's not the case with people even our age. Let's say you're, let's say you're 40 years old and you look around and a group of a hundred other 40 year olds, the, Likelihood that, 50 percent of them exercise on a regular basis is very low. But when you look at younger populations, I'm not saying overall, maybe, I'm sure there's still outliers, [00:12:00] but I definitely see a trend towards taking better care of yourself and not necessarily just breaking yourself down from a diet standpoint and being a bit more active.

I think. If you're looking at that as maybe a a trend that also lets us know that people are looking for folks to help them, live a more active, healthy life and you could make the case that, okay the fitness world really does that, right? There's trainers. And, but oftentimes like we're such a great segue into helping people find the right people from that, as well as being able to being able to establish a relationship with them.

That's very. Beneficial from a standpoint of curation of information and helping them understand what they should and shouldn't be doing. And, I think that is a great place to be as a performance based clinician, if that is an area that you are interested in leaning into. Because I think one of the reasons a lot of people don't do continuity work is they don't know how to do it.

They don't know what to do, and their skill set is limited to, I can get your knee to feel better. [00:13:00] But I can't really help you run your 5k faster, or I can get your knee to feel better, but I can't help you train for a half marathon. And that's a case they might outsource to other people, but there's a lot of clinicians now that are starting to be able to say I definitely can help you do that.

I like doing that. Maybe I've done that quite a bit myself. I have a history in the sport and Oh, if they're interested in that, this is an element of my business. They can now turn to a recurring revenue offer. That's also great for that patient, but also great for your business. So it's a, it's an interesting win that's starting to happen.

Yves: Yeah. We're seeing the advent of. Or almost like a downtrend, right? I feel like the downtrend of surgical and pharmaceutical interventions is that downtrends. we're seeing an uptrend in exercise, diet, sleep, think whoop, right? Like we're just seeing this becoming now the forefront of what people are using as interventions to help them feel better, to help them, work through illnesses and [00:14:00] injuries, right?

And so That's our kind of scope of practice, which is really awesome. And so like we have these interventions that we're pretty familiar with. And you're also seeing it, which is cool, like in the continued education world, right? Like I look back. And as we prepared for this, I'm like, all right.

the performance PT, like that wasn't even a verbiage people were using, like barbell work, like a barbell physio, there's all these things out there and these continue education courses that people are demanding for exactly what you said. It's like, all right, I have this baseline, health, anatomy, physiology.

basic strength conditioning, but I want more. And you're just seeing like all these great continuing education courses that just shows you that demand for it is extremely high within our profession, let alone within, our patient population demanding, like, all right, how can I get back to this or how can I optimize this part of my life and utilize it, to keep me healthy forever.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:15:00] And all right, how does this segue into. Your business, right? And that's where we want to really help create a framework for you to think about. There's this population of people is growing. There's interest in the profession for, working with people beyond just.

Get their knee pain back to where they can do activities of daily living and discharge. We know insurance isn't going to pay for things after a certain point, but there's a lot of people out there that don't care. And they got a lot of skin in the game either way. So they want to work with somebody that's going to help them with that.

And they're not price sensitive if you do a good job of helping them achieve the goals that they find meaningful. So when we look at retention, patient retention, and the ability to move people into a ongoing, service of some sort, the very first thing that I think is important for people to think about and really have in place in their business from what we've seen is to be able to establish and sell a plan of care or a package.

On the front end of your [00:16:00] of your visits with them. And the reason we say this is a couple things. Number one, you are getting somebody to commit financially. They have skin in the game and they are committing to solving a problem. The likelihood that somebody drops off if you do visit to visit unless.

And I'm not saying this is like this for everybody because there's some people are just amazing at, communicating the next steps for people and and they can keep people around really well without a package, but that's a minority of folks from what we've seen. The package or the plan of care allows you to take the pressure off.

You have to resell somebody for every other bid that they're going to come in. And we see most people will have a significant symptomatic change around visit two to three, if you're any good at what you're doing sometimes visit one to two. And that is also where we see a big drop off of people.

Once their symptoms are resolved, for the most part, they think they're good to go. And we know pain is one thing, but root cause of what's going on is the other. So you've now really Pot committed them to solving the actual root cause of the problem, which allows [00:17:00] you to get an even better outcome, allows you to make sure that they don't leave.

Think everything is good. It comes back and then they think you're not so great at what you do. And it improves your trust of them and your reputation. So the only reason not to do it is really that you'd don't know how to sell it or don't feel comfortable selling it. And that's actually where I was for a long time.

I, I had plenty of people tell me that I should do that, but I didn't feel comfortable selling. A plan of care on the front. And that's the first one you've got anything to add on packages and why they're important for,

Yves: for sure. I think we're, what I've seen the communication and verbiage evolve in our profession almost is we were talking about selling a plan of care or a package on the front end, and the big thing was like selling kind of the outcome, and now I've seen the next step in the evolution happen, which helps perfectly position continuity, and it's really selling the process of rehab it's selling the process of coming in.

getting [00:18:00] the diagnosis, getting out of pain, and then helping them feel active and healthy for life. Like we're selling the process of this on the front end. And that little change in verbiage of selling a plan of care and selling this entire process. If I can help you not necessarily go from in pain to out of pain, but in pain, out of pain, and then like hopefully stay that way.

It is huge. And I think that's what I've seen evolve in the last year that's just been making continuity become A new package in a way. We have talked about this before, right? But like continuity, like being like, that's what we're really striving for now. Like the golden ticket just use some of anything else is like, how can I get those patients in my door?

How can I get my schedule full with these people who like want to talk about sleep and want to perform better and want to be healthy for life and want to have these conversations? And if you do a good job of selling The package is a plan of care and having that conversation at the eval, which is really the most important time to do it.

Their pain point is high. You have their undivided attention. You've got a [00:19:00] ton of time with them. If you position that well, it makes everything else, which we'll talk about later, easier on the back end.

Danny: Totally. You are, and this segues really well into, the kind of the second part, which is really, it's like this ability to have seamless communication and pre frame.

The next steps that someone can expect. So when I talk about communication, there's a couple of things. One would be the communication between you and the patient, but also, and this is, this comes at scale whenever you have a team of people You want to have seamless communication between your staff that is going to interact with this person as well.

So as a simple example, this might be your front desk, having an idea of who this person is and, potentially if they have a, let's say they have a movement goal, of they want to run their first 10 K like your staff being able to say Hey, Sarah, how's the 10 K training going, or [00:20:00] whatever.

And actually know that about them where it's not, you're not like, Details of what's going on from a, injury standpoint, but just that to help get excited for them so that they know that we're like, we want them to succeed. We want them to accomplish this goal and we're here to help them do that.

And that we, as a team are aware of you and what you're trying to accomplish. And we're going to do everything we can to help you do that. Now that. If you can do that, as well as pre frame and communicate with your patient the next steps that they're going to go through, and it's almost as if you can predict the future for them.

So if I can say, here's what you can expect. You're trying to run a 10K for the first time. You've never really run more than like a mile. You can expect that you're going to be pretty sore. in your legs as we start to increase some of the distance. I'd be shocked if you didn't. Now, if you can do that and you can set the stage for them to know what [00:21:00] they can expect next, even though that they've never done that, all of a sudden that Saturday morning when they run a three mile run and Sunday.

Yeah. Their legs are sore because they've never experienced soreness from a long run before they think to themselves. Oh, yeah Danny said i'd be sore everything's fine versus if you don't pre frame that they might think that they are hurting themselves Or maybe they're taking a step back towards the injury that they just resolved so if you can start to think What are the concerns?

What are the? The winds and maybe the potential foul balls that they're going to have to deal with in order to achieve this goal. And if your team is aware of what the primary goal is that you're helping them achieve, that communication goes a long way because all of a sudden it makes you and your team look very professional and it makes you look like some kind of wizard that can, tell what's going to happen in the future, but it's just because you have so many reps with dealing with someone like that, it's going to make you look very credible and professional.

So the communication side of it. Prior to anything going on and prior to [00:22:00] the next steps that you see in the goal that is huge and that right there can make you look so much better and really increase the likelihood that they're going to want to continue to work with you and frankly refer other people to you as well.

Yeah,

Yves: We see that a lot. If you can over deliver, create an amazing patient experience, the trust, factor goes up, the likability goes up. And that just does it gives you so much equity, so to speak going down the line, and we do these things intentionally, I think, If we have a front desk person, that front desk person knows they need to ask specific questions, like what are your goals, what are you getting back to, how long you've been dealing with this.

We put those notes typically into an EMR system. Our clinicians know to refer to those, or to read those and refer back to them in the conversation. So we'll say, Hey, Joe, you got knee pain going on. I know you talked to Tam and Tam said that, you're trying to get back to running a [00:23:00] marathon.

Like just saying that little thing. I think that sometimes people don't realize that little verbiage right there. The fact that I said, not only did Tam ask, write it down. I actually read it and now I'm referring it back to you. Like people take Note of those things. And so be able to say Oh, this is what Tam said.

I can't wait to help you get back to running this marathon. And even that, like the intake forms, we asked some more like kind of specific questions will actually refer to some of the answers that they did in the intake form. So Oh, it looks like here that you wrote. down to it's it's been three months since you were able to run a mile.

You refer to something that they wrote down. That's another little trust factor. They're like, Oh man, they're paying attention. This process has already started, the day I filled out the intake form. And so I think that's just huge as far as this entire process goes.

Danny: Yeah it's great. It's hard to do too. This is why most people don't do it is because they're scattered. They don't have any organization. There's no structure to how they work with [00:24:00] people. It's just doing it on the fly. For the most part, this is how most practices function, and this is honestly how most practices that we get a chance to work with when they come into our mastermind program.

They are unorganized. There's no consistency. They could be a great provider, but that will only get you so far because at a certain point, you're going to become so tired. Time poor that you're going to have to try to build people around you. And you're building it on such a terrible foundation because there's no repeatability.

And then it's when it's just you can have a pretty good customer experience because, it's just you and that person. And if you really try hard and you spend a lot of time and effort following up with them and making sure that. You're aware of, what's going on with their case before they come in.

Like you can look pretty good, but once you get to a point where you become pretty saturated with your schedule and you try to bring anybody else in to help you, and this is actually where we see a lot of clinicians. They'll tell us they were like I tried to hire and it didn't work out because it's hard to find people.

And we're like, listen, there's no doubt. It's hard to find good people, but there's, [00:25:00] you've had three people turnover. And you're in like a staff clinician position and there's a common denominator here and it's not those other people. It's frankly you and your business like it is a mess and if you don't own up to that and decide you want to change it, you're going to have number four come in and leave as well.

You have to understand that. The ability to scale that past yourself, which you need to do comes with structure and systems. And for somebody like myself, who is not built that way, that's hard to do because it's like painful. It's painful to think about creating structure around. So it's just let me talk, let me just talk to the person, help them get better.

I wish it was just that simple. And maybe it is, if you only want to see maybe 15 people a week. But as you try to grow your business, you got to work past that. So you have to have these in place for the whole team to be able to communicate. The third thing that really comes out of that too, is that once you have got a package in place, once you have good communication and you're pre framing things, you also have to be able to what we call widen the gap.

[00:26:00] So this is where not everybody's going to say I've never run a 10 K before. I should probably get some help. In fact, that's true. Pretty rare. They're usually like, let's just see how it goes and we're going to get versus if you can widen the gap for someone. It's logically, it makes a lot more sense to get help from someone's already done it, right?

So it's as simple as, so have you ever run a 10 K before? No. Have you ever had someone actually assess your running before you bring your mileage up? Never. Do you have any idea if there's any imbalances that you might have side to side that might show up as you start to increase mileage? No, I haven't do you know, like how to build your mileage correctly and what types of runs, whether they be tempo runs or you're doing low, a slow long distance running, or you're doing repeats at certain time trials.

Are you familiar with any of that stuff? So you can actually build it up correctly. No, I'm not like, okay. So all I'm doing is asking them questions about what the training should look like, but I am. I am widening [00:27:00] the gap with every question they go from. I'm going to run a 10 K so I have no idea how to actually get to that point without hurting myself, which we know running related injuries are astronomically high, mainly because most people don't know how to run and they don't actually follow a program and they just go run.

And you can do that, but the likelihood that you're going to be successful by just doing that is pretty low in comparison to having a structure planning goal around it, right? So this is where you widen the gap. And once you've widened the gap. The solution to their problem then inherently becomes you, because you have asked all of these great questions about what they should be looking for.

And as long as you have the understanding of what to do with it, guess what? Now you're my solution. And that is the easiest sale that you can make is to actually literally just help people realize they have a lot of holes in their strategy. And you can help them with that. And also if they really want to accomplish that goal, the likelihood, the certainty of them doing that with your help is far higher than them just trying to figure out how to do it.[00:28:00]

Hey, sorry to interrupt the podcast, but I have a huge favor to ask of you. If you are a longtime listener or a new listener and you're finding value in this podcast, please head over to iTunes wherever you listen to the podcast, and please leave a rating and review. This is actually very helpful for us to get this podcast in front of more clinicians and really help them develop time and financial freedom.

So if you would do that, I would greatly appreciate it. Now back to the podcast.

Yves: Yeah, this applies to any niche. Golf, women's health, CrossFit, general ortho, right? And I, what it comes down to, I've seen a lot of times is us as physical therapists or the people that I talk to don't realize that our, to go back to the gap thing, our knowledge Like the gap between our knowledge and the normal everyday person is pretty massive.

Like we provide a lot of value. And we don't think sometimes that we can provide this value beyond getting out of pain, getting out [00:29:00] of injury and getting into this next step. And so we don't even think to ask those questions that you do. So there's probably not a PT or clinician out there that just knows like how important those things are knows how to answer those questions and bring that stuff out correctly.

All we're doing is ask some of those questions, right? Ask some of those questions during your plan of care and realize that, holy crap, there's so many things that can help this person with. So if we just literally just start being a little more curious, inquisitive, realize that we have a lot of knowledge to bring.

I think that's huge, to take what you're saying, even a step further, what we do in our training process. Is step one is get them to realize how far they've already come. Awesome. Here's where you were. Here's where now this is amazing. Great. Then we can, continue to just make the make the pole a little bit higher.

And it's like, all right, now you're here, but like, where do you want to go? You said you want to get back to running marathons consistently. So we'll also widen the gap by creating new goals with them and get them to [00:30:00] realize my goal. Wasn't just to like, Not be at a pain. My goal is actually to be able to run, Boston marathon one day.

It's Oh guess what? We can help you with that, right? Like we can talk about training volume. We can talk about how to optimize these other things from stress and sleep to help you get there. If you do those two things between the goal setting and really asking some of those questions that Danny talked about, the likelihood that person's going to want to work with you is extremely

Danny: high.

Totally. And I think we discount how much we know. Okay. All the time, and this is something that it when you're in it all day, you just think It's funny, you think other people know, like it's not that hard for you because you've been working with patients and you have gone to a lot of Con Ed courses and all that stuff, but the average person just doesn't know shit.

I'll give you two good examples. This morning I was training with with the guy that I work out with and he was like, dude, you have like health and wellness Tourette's. He's just shit just comes out of you while we're Training. He just, he's just, he's you just, you [00:31:00] cite like random articles.

It's just what the hell? What's in your head? And I guess I don't know. It's just, a decade plus of working with people like that in the Clinton, the clinical world. And it's just we take it for granted this morning, one of the kids that was that I coached on a basketball team, his dad had a shoulder surgery and his mom messaged me and she's Hey my husband's having like really bad headaches.

He's in a sling, he's sleeping in a weird position. She's I'm really worried. Maybe I need to take him, I can't get ahold of the doctor. And I'm like, nah, you're good. Here's what you need to do. It's really common to see this, and this. And she was like, oh my God, this is so helpful.

Thank you so much. And it's just simple stuff that we. That we recognize that the average person doesn't because it's not their job, right? But don't discount that don't undervalue that it's very valuable very valuable because you Information is not valuable the curation of information and context for people around that information Is very valuable and it's what people will pay [00:32:00] for if you just dump a bunch of shit on them That's irrelevant.

They don't care like they can get that from google. They can get that from youtube but if you can You Tell them what they need to know in the right context and help alleviate stress or worry or help them, achieve the goal they have. That's insanely valuable and they become very trusted and you're the first person they're going to reach out to for any ongoing thing that they have or anything that their family member has, because it's far easier for them to typically get.

In front of us to get an answer from someone like us that's non surgical than someone that, that is a physician that is very busy doing surgeries all day and has a massive case load, right? You put yourself in a really great spot when you start to develop trust with people that way with your patients, and especially with this ongoing relationship where they know they can reach out to you and it's not going to, you're not going to give them a biased opinion.

It's going to be non biased based on what's best for them. Yeah. I

Yves: mean they're The knowledge is out there. Curating it is such a good point. Be able to curate it, package it and give people a [00:33:00] plan, and then hold that person accountable to that plan is worth a lot of money, right? We know that in almost any context, right?

And yeah, you have the knowledge base. Let's talk about it frequently during our plans of care, ask the right questions, and if we do that stuff, the likelihood that we can continuously to help them after they are out of injury is going to be massive. And it's a fun caseload to have. We can, I'm sure we'll talk about it later, but it's like the, when I was treating, it was awesome to have a couple evals, a couple people in the middle of their package who were like coming out the other side and have a good chunk of people who are coming in and we're like, I feel good, let's do some strength training today.

Or I feel good. Let's talk about my training for the week of the month. Yeah, God, that mix of people, like it just really helped with a lot of the burnout too, right? Like having some variety in

Danny: my case. Totally. And sometimes like I would spend visits, hour long visits with people, Just talking, literally just, we're just talking through different things, to help them problem solve what [00:34:00] is going on based on, frustrations maybe they're seeing or to update variations in their training plan, or they might just want to know about something that we have unique understanding of, and they're trying to get a better idea of that without having to try to figure out, what YouTube video they're supposed to watch that isn't bullshit, right?

And that's a very valuable thing when you develop that relationship. And you're right, it does the ability to have ongoing work with people. It, it does. It stabilizes your caseload, but it gives you variance in your day. And that variance is huge when it comes to burnout and not feeling so burnt out.

And, I know when I was in the military, my entire job was evals and revals, just an eval reval machine. That's it. Didn't get to take anybody through. Any plan of care any exercises didn't get to have a conversation with anybody about you know Anything aside from whatever the eval was and three to four weeks later the reaval And build a plan out for the next month that they would do with somebody else and hopefully I picked the right shit Because i'm not going to see him for a month, [00:35:00] right?

So like I very much Treasured the time I was like, this is awesome. You're going to come back on in two days. Hell yeah. Let's go. You're going to come back in a week. This is going to be great. We're going to make so much progress. And I'd been starved from that. I didn't have it. So I don't know, maybe people don't have the perspective of that, but it is very, it's a luxury to be able to work with people that are motivated, that want to get better, that you get a chance to actually see through the whole process.

And then you get a chance to have this ongoing relationship with them forever. I just bumped into a guy the other day. I was at I was getting a breakfast taco with Ashley. This was on Valentine's Day. This was Wednesday. Breakfast taco with Ashley. We're at this breakfast taco place. And one of my old patients there I hadn't seen in years.

And this guy, he's a stunt man. And I'm like, Hey, what's up man? How's the stunts going? And he's I'm a stunt coordinator now. So I'm like managing all these stunts, whatever. And it's, he, and he's dude, I'm still doing the shit that we worked on. I teach my stunt men and women how to do this stuff to take care of themselves too.

Yeah. And I'm like, this is awesome. And it's just like the ability to actually have people like [00:36:00] that in your community that you then bump into that are, they're outlier people in their own right. They're self motivated. They want to be healthy. That's awesome. What a great side effect. And it's not like they feel bad that they come back and see you.

This is what we think. They're using their grocery mind to come see me instead of going buying grocery for their kids. They're not doing that shit. They're going to pick their kids food over you any day of the week. All right. They value this over other things they might do that cost money and the price side of it for them, they may view that it's incredibly valuable to reinvest in their health.

And yet we can be on the flip side of that and be like, Oh, I feel bad because they already came in once in the last month Maybe I shouldn't tell them to do it or whatever, don't, it's what's best for them and what their goals are and you got to look at that way. Otherwise, this sort of like money mindset issue that many of us have, we'll get in the way of truly what's the best, what's the best outcome for the potential patient.

Yves: Yeah, it's a force multiplier and I get so frustrated I won't get too heated of we need to discharge people they don't need to be relying on us and I'm all for that [00:37:00] right but you got to position this in the right way and we're positioning in a way where if we feel like we can add value to your life and keep you on track, then utilize our help.

And if that's not working and I can't help you, I'm not going to keep working with you, right? Being able to do this, position this in an ethical way is key. And that's what we're trying to do here, right? And I think most of the time you're right when people don't want to do this. They may use that clinical reasoning as an excuse because they feel guilty for charging people, right?

Because they don't realize the value we bring. They don't realize the knowledge gap. You don't realize how much benefit you can bring to somebody's life to keep them on track as far as, sleep and exercise. Imagine the, it's my like new favorite analogy. Imagine the ripple effect, not only ripple effect.

while they're alive, but the potential ripple effect generationally, cause we're seeing a lot of this data of if somebody is not [00:38:00] healthy and healthy and fit, the likely that their kids and their kids, like all that stuff, that ripple effect is massive generationally. So now I'm like, Holy crap.

There's all this data that just shows if I can affect this person's life, I could do it. affect their generations of lives like down the road, right? So I'm almost going I'll go to the other side just for a fact that it's honestly, in some ways, are moral obligation. I hate saying that, but in a way it's true that we need to be able to help these people.

Cool, send them on their way and they're just going to go back. And we have data points to do this because we did not do packages or we did continuity and those people would come back and they would be mad at us because we didn't work with them. So I'm not doing this because, I'm like, oh, let's make as much money as possible.

I'm doing this because. I've seen the effects that it had if I didn't do it, and I've seen the massive effects it could have when I did do this on a consistent basis.

Danny: You're right though, man. The generational health change is, it's enormous. And we take this for [00:39:00] granted. I think if you're listening this, you're generally probably a healthy person.

And as I have started like really to like train with people in my neighborhood that have no idea what the hell is going on with their bodies. It is shocking to me. How just poorly people take care of themselves and their kids. It's the example for their kids as well that they see my my, my son has a couple of friends that are brothers that they came over after we had a basketball game a couple of weekends ago and I had to do sled drags and some body weight stuff for a workout.

And and Jack will do that shit with me. Maggie will do that stuff for me. It's not like a big deal. So I was like, Hey, you guys want to. You guys want to drag some sleds and do a quick workout with me? And they're like, yeah, sure. Whatever. So we're going, we drag sleds for 20, 30 minutes around this parking lot and they are dying.

Like my son is not the, like the most physically fit person in the world. He's [00:40:00] healthy for his age. But like these poor kids were dying. One of them, literally asked me, can we please stop now? And I was like, dude, you're 12. You should be running a lapse around me. What the heck?

Then we went in and we did a salt bike sprint trials, how many calories they could get or how long it took him to get the five calories. We did a pull up assessment, which neither of them could do a single damn one. And then we did did a pushup test and the same thing basically happened.

And I told Ashley, I was like, these poor kids, man, they don't stand a chance. Like they need somebody that's actually going to like, Have them be a bit more active because they're not really getting it outside of there. So we're like, just imagine if their parents, if let's say their parents went and they work with somebody like us now, all of a sudden, I'm not saying their dad's going to drag sleds and he's going to do assault bike sprints, but maybe their drive to move goes up, maybe their activity level changed a little bit and guess who gets.

Drug along with them, their kids do, and they start to change the way that they eat, they start to change the way they view water intake, and sleep, and we just live a different world than most people, man. I don't think most people prioritize sleep, nutrition, stress management, [00:41:00] and movement on a daily basis, but even a slight change in those things can honestly change their life, and the people around them just, By exposure to what they think is not weird.

It is normal, and makes them feel better. Great. Just

Yves: go for a darn walk, right? Like just something that simple can have a major impact on a family. And yeah that's why we got to get out there and we got to do it. Yeah.

Danny: The last thing I would say, just, we'll finish this out from the business side is downselling the upsell.

So when an ongoing program, the goal is, That it's less ex less of a cost on a monthly basis to do ongoing work versus the front end to solve a problem. This is anchoring sort of the price points. So if you think about it, let's say I had a, let's say I have a 10 visit package's somebody's going to use over the course of two months, and it costs $10,000 or $2,000.

So it's a thousand dollars a month for those two months for them to come in and see us five times each month. [00:42:00] For the first. Two months, right? Okay, cool. Get you where you want to be. Hit the goal. They basically just paid us 1, 000 a month to get to this point that they wanted to be. Now, to do ongoing work, they don't need to come in that often.

You're in a place where now you can really stretch that out and you can give them things to do more so on their own and they can take more time to do that. And physical change for things like that takes time and it takes reps and consistency. Maybe you work with that person twice a month and they come in, and instead of it being a thousand dollars a month, maybe it's 400 bucks a month, right?

So it's 600 less and it's anchored. Now if you don't have that on the front end, it doesn't look quite as appealing to them as far as price point is concerned. So if we're looking at just like the buyer psychology of it, let's say. It was 400 bucks a month. They came in twice a month. And then all of a sudden you're like, all right now I need you to come in five times a month so we can hit this goal.

It's going to be far harder to sell that because they're used to less of a monthly cost than if you stack it the other way around, which typically we [00:43:00] have to do when they have an injury, because we need more time with them in a more of a condensed manner in order to actually get the result that they want.

But that is a really important way of looking at the price point to make sure that you are. Downselling the upsell because the upsell is essentially your ongoing continuity offer, wherever it might be. And it's going to dramatically increase your lifetime value. So how much does the average person spend in your business over the course of the time that they're a customer and a continuity program because of the duration of time that they can last dramatically outweighs any front end revenue.

You can generate with a plan of care or package. There's a saying in marketing that amateurs focus on the front end. And what they mean is if you just focus it on your front end product or service, whatever it is, you're missing a massive amount of consistent revenue on the back end, because you don't actually know what to do.

Yves: To go back to what I talked about before, where the gold standard kind of being moving away from the package to moving towards the continuity program. That's [00:44:00] it, right? We talk. The entire customer journey, you've got marketing, you've got the eval, and then you've got the 10 visit package.

And I'm now thinking about that differently. I'm almost thinking about that the way we're positioning it now specifically at made to move is that's your foundations program. That's going to build the foundation. Just to get you to the point where you're now educated and you're ready to be healthy and active for life, right?

I'm going to solve your problem there. What brought you in was your injury. And I'm excited to help you with that, but ultimately I don't want this to come back again. And I want to talk about how we can make sure this doesn't come back. So now this 10 visit package becomes the foundation and I'm seeing you pretty frequently, as you said, once a week on a consistent basis to make sure we're moving forward in the right direction.

That's usually going to be You know, X amount was like he said, and then, yeah, I'm going to downsell the continuity less frequently, less cost, right? A little bit more independent. Cause we've got to, we want that. We want you to feel empowered and do it on your own. And that's going to make sense.

And that's where we want you to [00:45:00] be, and the cool part is what we're seeing. I don't want to go too much on a tangent, but it's not just this monthly visit that used to be anymore, right? It's, it could be once a week. It could be twice a month. It could still be once a month. It could be a hybrid version.

There's a lot of people who are like productizing this and adding digital programming on top of a monthly visit. There are people that are doing small group training. Cause we got all these people with standalone spaces, half our community has a standalone space and are doing some version of small group training or about to, it's like, how cool is that?

Come in for your pain and injury. Maybe you didn't exercise before, or maybe you didn't weren't doing necessarily the right things, you're doing it on your own, now you get to do it with a small group of people led by a clinician, what's the likelihood that person's going to stay healthy?

Oh my God, right? And so there's just more options out there too, which I just love to see, like it just keeps evolving. And there's just so much more value to be had. It's wow. Just beginning to, which is cool.

Danny: Even with the small group thing, right? Some people, maybe they're like I don't really know, I don't know how to train people.

Think of it like a bridge program. What would you do with somebody in a small group [00:46:00] if you were trying to get them ready to go back to a general population gym? Where it is a group environment and there's not going to be a lot of coaching. They're not going to get a lot of attention because there's 20 other people in there with one coach.

What would that look like? So like you already have the skillset, maybe you're thinking of it the wrong way but also if you can piece together these these recurring revenue services let's say you have three, let's say you have some sort of ongoing visit, you have some sort of ongoing.

Either just program remote coaching on its own, right. Or that plus a visit, and then you have some sort of in person semi private or small group, training. Now, it's not unreasonable to think that you can get five to 15, 000 a month in recurring revenue from each of those profit centers.

And this is why, frankly, we have had. A pun of inch insurance based practices that have reached out to us that want to start working with us in our mastermind in particular, to be able to say, okay, I don't want to be [00:47:00] a complete cash practice, which is fine, but I'm getting death by a thousand paper cuts right now from these insurance companies.

They're just giving us less and less. We don't have any. Opportunity to really negotiate because we don't have a lot of weight to throw around their small privately owned, practices, but they want to be able to increase their, they want to be able to increase their margins to a point where they don't have to have insanely high volume and they have.

Revenue that is not directly related to insurance because they don't control what they can even price there. And so all of a sudden they look at what are these other things that they could be doing that they can't, they're not right now that they don't understand how to do, because it's a completely different business model.

And what we're finding is it's a great compliment, not just for a standalone, a cash based practice in its own right. Obviously this makes complete sense for that because this is, it's our bread and butter, but then you take somebody that has. A in network practice and it becomes a hybrid practice.

And even if they can get to 30, 40, 50 percent cash revenue its own, oh my God. Life changing. [00:48:00] I think it's something that we w we've been working with that have literally they've gone from, I think I'm gonna have to shut my practice down to. PR years that they've had from a net profit standpoint, because they're making so much more money for services that are not getting, devalued every single year.

So don't just think of this as just cash based services or a cash practice, it's cash based services that can bolt onto any clinical environment, no matter whether you're in network or not, because these are services that insurance wouldn't reimburse for at all. This idea

Yves: of An insurance based practice, selling continuity, small group, those options on the backend, I believe is going to be massive within the next four to five years because people come in, we try to get as many businesses we can and then build insurance as much as we can.

Like I know that game was part of that game. It works fine. Volume increases, multiple clinics, multiple providers. You can sell it to private equity. You can exit. That's awesome. Now that was really [00:49:00] your only option. It really was. You could be smaller practice and you could be okay. There's probably ways to do it, but that's getting more and more difficult.

And we all understand that it's not getting better now. The idea of combining those makes an insurance based practice way more viable. I'm extremely biased. Like I've been it's no secret, like hating on the idea of ever having insurance basically do not do it. That's what I said all the time. I am more.

Open to that than I ever have been, because the volume of new people that you can get in the door, you can access so many new patients because the front end is so easy and you may not capture, but if even if you capture 20 percent of those people into your continuity program, and as you said, build 40 percent of your gross revenue into continuity, it becomes a way more entertaining game and a way more profitable game, because it's a game that you can finally actually win.

Like the other game, you couldn't win. Third party was winning, third party payers, insurance companies were winning, like patients were losing, PTs really, but now it's [00:50:00] a game we can actually win. And that's really cool. And the idea, we've implemented that in multiple practices. So it is now officially where I feel really comfortable talking about it.

It is proven, and man I can't wait to bring it to more

Danny: people. It reminds me of, like I, I did this This marketing course years ago, this was like probably eight or nine years ago, one of the first marketing courses that I ever went through and it was like a general digital sort of marketing course.

And what they talked about was this idea of loss leaders and in particular with in, in the context of Thanksgiving, right? So when a grocery store sells a turkey, they usually do it at a loss. Every year, I'm gonna be like whole foods. They're not selling those at a loss, but normally most grocery stores, bigger stores, they're going to sell Turkey for as low as they can because no, they know people are looking for what's the cheapest.

Per pound turkey that I can find right and they're agnostic to the chain for the most part They're going to go wherever is the cheapest turkey. That's their loss leader But once they get them in the door, they got their turkey But now they got to get [00:51:00] potatoes and rolls and they got to get you know, everything else.

They need a pie For thanksgiving. I'm gonna be hungry. Yes, exactly, you know get some thanksgiving dinner but these are things that are They don't have to mark down, so they get them in the door with a loss leader and then they sell everything else at whatever retail price would be for those things.

And they make it up because of it because of the volume of the other things that they're going to sell. It's very similar to what I see with these in network practices to where they're getting them in the door. I'll give you a great example. One of my good friends is he's in works with an orthopedic.

Surgical practice here in Atlanta. And we met recently for lunch and he was like, Hey, we're thinking about standing up a cash service option to what we're doing. Because we have this, huge surgical team. But they recently got connected with a couple of gyms to do athletic training or coverage.

And. They are looking at what can we do with these youth athletes? What can we do with their parents? What can we do with people that are looking to do ongoing performance based work? And this is a massive group, but what they, the [00:52:00] appeal to it is that they are not controlled by insurance in terms of what they can charge.

So they have a lot more say over their price points, consistency over what those might be. They're not having to wait to get paged. Their accounts receivable aren't crazy. And for me, I sat there and I was like, yeah, dude, this is a very. Possible thing you should really look into this no doubt, like this I think it will work and it's because, they have the pipeline, they have the insurance based people that are coming in.

They have a distribution channel and those people will listen to whatever they say of the next steps they should take, so they're just internally going to capitalize on. I think the same thing can be said for. And in that we're practice that is getting a lot of referrals for post ops for, people that are coming through different Medicare channels or whatever it is they have.

And then all of a sudden it's you don't have to change everything. You have to ask yourself, what are the few things that I can do that can dramatically write the ship that is going the wrong direction. And, you don't have to change your entire business model, but you do [00:53:00] need to make some tweaks to it.

And the reality is if they do not, those practices, Over the next few years are going to be in such a bad spot that they're not going to be viable businesses. Unless they can have massive volume, but you can only increase volume so much. And I think we've already tapped that out. So what other option do you have?

You have to understand what levers can you pull in your business to create more profit without necessarily just loading your people up with more human beings to treat on a hourly basis, because there's eventually we're going to hit a threshold there. Yeah,

Yves: I mean you can't let the fear of something new stop you.

If it comes down to continuity, it comes down to adding small group training, it comes down to creating more of a hybrid cash model, like you just can't let that stop you. Of course it's going to be hard, of course I'm gonna have to change some processes. Of course, there'll be a huge learning curve there.

But ultimately, it's the best long term decision, [00:54:00] and most people will make that change until the pain of staying the same is, greater than the pain of the change. And And we're getting close to that point. I'd rather you come in and do it now, and just struggle through that process.

We like a good example is we drug our feet on adding small group training forever. And literally started in December and it's 3, 000 a month worth of recurring revenue, like within two like that's. A massive amount of money, even for a

Danny: practice. This past December, you mean two months ago.

Yves: That quickly. And I'm just like, why did we not do this before? But it was just like the pain of like, all right, we got to have this conversation. We've got to send these emails out. Like I get the inertia there, but I just, I don't want that to stop people anymore. And no, no matter it's just we know that these things work, that you want to start doing these things.

Like sometimes it's just about putting boots on the ground and just committing

Danny: to it. I think that of all the things that we just mentioned from a continuity standpoint, regardless of what your practice looks like, get [00:55:00] 4 to 6 people together and get them moving together. Misery Loves Company, you probably have I think providers leading, these type of classes is just.

to

Yves: employees.

Danny: Love it. They love it. There's variance. The thing is you go from solving problems where people are hurt to then being able to work on. Positive things where they are working on, performance, they're getting stronger, they're seeing changes. And it's, and you're also it's a slightly different use of your brain.

It's a great way. Like these slight changes in how you use your skills is a great way to offset burnout. It's when we do the same thing redundantly every day that we feel burnt out. That is across the board for basically everybody. And if you can tweak that somehow and have them use it, their skill set slightly differently they don't feel as burnt out because they're getting some variance in their day.

And, that's one of the things that we see but semi private training for a clinic with a clinician running that is like shooting fish in the barrel for a health [00:56:00] service that you're offering, because at that point, you have to keep in mind is you're competing against personal trainers that didn't just take this person through a a couple of months of resolving some chronic problem they thought would never go away.

Who do you think has more trust with those people? Who do you think that they would rather work with? And if the PR and the price point is relatively similar, it's a no brainer. And not only that, but we see the retention percentages on those type of services in general. Are massive average retention percentage for them is going to be two or three years that people are sticking around to do that service with you add that fucking shit up for your monthly recurring revenue times two to three years to get lifetime value on top of it.

And there's a real good reason why you might want to look at some of this stuff. And you don't have to be a cash based practice to do that. You could be an in network practice because guess what? You got a damn gym. All of you got a gym with a bunch of thera bands. You just get some other equipment and you're good to go.

And if you don't know how to train people, you get to learn that it's [00:57:00] a skill where you can learn that stuff. This is like simple business stuff that you can add to your practice that can really add. Massive amount of revenue. What if you could just add five to 10, 000 a month of recurring cash services in some capacity to your business?

Would that change your month? Would that change your year? Would that change the stress that you might feel with, the profit that you may or may not have? In your business, how does that affect you and your family outside of it? How does it affect your ability to make decisions in your business and to hire people and create an opportunity for them to have a job with great benefits?

It changes a lot. And I'm not even talking about how much money you bring home from it. I'm talking about just the sheer. Stress that you can take off yourself as a business owner, which is always going to be there, but it's a hell of a lot worse when you're not running super thin margins every month, wondering if you're going to be able to meet your overhead and if you're going to pay yourself that month.

So just something to think about. This is a big part of what we talk about with people. It's a huge. Emphasis for us to help people establish these things. And we had a lot of pushback. Like you said, look at [00:58:00] you, we talked a little time, you're a freaking company. I how it's been two, three years.

I've been telling you this all of a sudden, you're like, Oh, I just, we just did it. No shit. It

Yves: worked. What do you know? It worked. Can you believe

Danny: it? It's hard to change things. Like it is hard to change things. Exhibit a, it's hard to change things, but it does work if you implement.

Yves: Always want to be transparent, it's great.

Danny: No, it's true. People should hear that. I think it's great. Hey, it might take you some time. Either way, once you figure it out, you're going to wonder why it took you so long. Yeah,

Yves: I've said that so many times about so many things and now I have to say it to myself. It's like why did I not do it sooner?

Do you know what I mean? That's just the bottom line and It's okay. I'm gonna learn. Can I get better every single day?

Danny: In summary, let's we'll finish with this number one Make sure you get comfortable selling a plan of care package. It's going to help you get better buying It's going to help you get better outcomes and build more trust and that's what we want with our folks You want to help them get an outcome?

We want to build trust with them as we have a long term, you know established relationship Make sure you have Seamless communication with your clients, as well as [00:59:00] with your team so that you look as professional as possible and you're all working together to help that person achieve whatever that goal is, widen the gap for make sure that they understand that there's a lot that they don't know that you can still help them with.

The best way to do that is ask questions about what they're trying to do and where they're trying to go and how they plan to get there. Usually that leads them to realize that they don't really know what they're doing and you might be a logical person to actually help them get there.

Make sure that you are downselling the upsell, the downsell, meaning the continuity, the backend retention offer should be less expensive than whatever the front end services. So that way it's anchored and it becomes much, much more digestible. And the likelihood that they say yes, and they want to use that service, it goes up.

And then the last thing really is make sure that you realize that you have to overdeliver and continue to help people, achieve the goals that they have, because if you can't help them do that, then you should discharge them. If you don't have anything else to help them with that they see value in 100%, you should discharge them and they should go somewhere else and give them a referral to the next logical place.[01:00:00]

But if you have the skill set and the desire to want to help people. Past them just getting over an injury. This is a great compliment to your business. It's a great win for you. It provides, less burnout for your staff to have some variance. It provides better profit centers. They can be bolted onto your business from a preexisting distribution channel of clients you've already acquired.

The hard part is over now. You're just giving them something else that they can buy. That's going to help them achieve better health, better movement, better. Whatever physical goals that they're trying to achieve. And if you want to do that, it's a great win. So that's it.

Patient retention is huge and the lifetime value of this is so meaningful that it's very much worth looking at Focusing on and really trying to implement at least one variation of this in your business over the next few months to just see how much it can add to the business

Yves: Yeah, I don't and Last thing, don't let the fear of starting it, just like I experienced, hold you back whatsoever.

Go learn the skill, go out there and build the systems and build the processes. [01:01:00] You've got to go out there and just don't let it hold you back because I think you'll regret it and you'll realize, holy crap, why didn't I do this?

Danny: Yeah, and it is hard because you're stuck in your business. You're probably very busy.

You're, it's like, ah, the thought of having to like, come up with the systems for something new or how are you going to sell that and the price point and all this stuff. And so it can feel overwhelming. It can make you create change slower potentially than what you would like because you're stuck in your business.

But if honestly, if you're stuck in your business you really probably should talk to us about that because we help people get out of their businesses or at least as out of their business as they want. Some people love treating and they want to treat forever. And I respect that. And other people, they don't, but they don't see a path to where they can really work on their business and they can mentor their staff.

And you got to learn how to become a good business owner. And that's at PT bit. That's what we do. We've helped literally over a thousand clinicians start growing, scale their business. And it's a skill we all can learn if you're a business owner and you haven't spent any time, money, energy on learning your business skillset, obviously [01:02:00] you're listening to this.

So that's like you're trying, which is great. If you really want to get support and structure around that, so you can start to do some of these things that having to figure it all out on your own, like it's a natural fit, we help people do that all the time. And if it's a fit, cool.

If it's not, no big deal. I hope this was helpful. So anyway, that's all I got. We'll finish it on that. I hope everyone enjoys their it's Friday for us. I guess this is gonna come out on a Tuesday. Enjoy your Tuesday. As always, thanks for listening to the podcast and we will catch you next week.

Hey, peach Entrepreneurs. We have big, exciting news, a new program that we just came out with. That is our PT Biz part-Time to full-time. Five day challenge over the course of five days, we get you crystal clear on exactly how much money you need to replace by getting you ultra clear on how much you're actually spending.

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