E468 | Keys To Fast Growth In A Cash-Based Practice With Nick Hagen

Welcome back, to the P.T. Entrepreneur Podcast! This week, I am joined by Mastermind member, Nick Hagen! We talk about why he chose this profession, building a business with his spouse, and all other things related to operating a cash-based practice. Enjoy!

Ready to elevate your practice? Book a call at the link below with one of our expert consultants today and start your journey to delivering unparalleled physical therapy.

PT Everywhere: https://pteverywhere.com/

Do you enjoy the podcast?  If so, leave us a 5-star review on iTunes and tell a friend to do the same!

Are you a member of our free PT Entrepreneur Facebook Group? Join today!

Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] So I was having a conversation with one of our staff members about documentation, and he had come over from a in-network practice that he was working at, and he was talking about just how long it would take him to document and click through and the workflow and how, just, how time consuming it was and how much easier it's been with the software that we use, which is PT everywhere.

And I know for us, we're very aware of sort of time leaks within our staff and our own schedules. And it's just one of the worst things you can do is just waste time on things when you could be doing them more efficiently. One thing for us is we have to document. It's something we need to do and you need to do it as efficiently as you possibly can because that's where you're gonna save a lot of your time.

We were seeing our staff members save upwards of an hour a day as far as cleaning up his documentation, making it more efficient. What if you got an hour of your day back just from documentation? What if all of your staff did the same thing? Highly recommend you take a look at PT everywhere.

It's been a huge time saver for us and really has made a big difference in our efficiency of our practice. You can check 'em [email protected]. I think you're gonna really like what they have to offer. [00:01:00] So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't wanna see 30 patients a day, who don't wanna work home health and have real student loans create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about?

This is the question, and this podcast is the answer. My name's Danny Matt Mate, and welcome to the PT Entrepreneur Podcast.

What's up guys? Doc Danny here with the PT Entrepreneur's Facebook Group and the PT Entrepreneur podcast and today, We get to talk to somebody that's one of the fastest growing cash-based practices in the country. He and his wife, and this is Nick his wife, Lindsey Hagen own capacity PT in Bend, Oregon.

It's been fun to watch watch you grow. And I like I was telling you before I did my homework, I know there's a lot on the back end that you've done, so it's always funny when you see somebody and they're like, oh, I had a lot of success year one. But it's overnight success, 10 years in the making kind of thing.

Exactly. And so I'm interested to unpack [00:02:00] kind of the evolution of everything and share what's helped you be successful. So thanks for taking the time. I know you're a busy guy. You got a lot going on but I'm excited for today.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate it. I'm excited to be here.

Thanks for having me on, and hopefully I can give some good knowledge to the audience. So yeah, let's go. Let's talk. All right,

Danny: cool. I always like to start out with this, like why, like what was it about the profession first of all, that, you decided like physical therapy is the way I want to go.

Like what drew you to

Nick: that? Yeah. Yeah. So I had the standard story of back pain as a middle schooler. Played multiple sports, particularly baseball, did me in and I had a spady, so if you don't know what that is, whatever, low back hypermobility just spot through and eventually I just got to the point where I couldn't deal with it anymore.

And looking back on it, my PT didn't do the greatest job, but I, it was still, it was just kinda release my SOEs and give me some planks and things like that. But yeah, it introduced me to Hey, I don't have to sit at a desk. I can actually be active always really into sports. I think at an early age I knew I wanted to do it.

So in [00:03:00] high school I knew I wanted to do it. I think at that point I was like, Hey, I want to be like the physical therapist for the Lakers. Yeah. And then I can tell you more along the path here, I realized that wasn't what I wanted to do. Yeah. And just kinda went through it. So I graduated senior year of high school and knowing what I wanted to do.

I signed up for classes freshman year of college. I was already volunteering, getting experience, so I was early on the train, which helped me cuz I wasn't necessarily like a 4.5 GPA student or any of that stuff. But I had a lot of good experience and kinda just knew I wanted to do it from the get-go.

I come from a family of helpers, so I'm not super religious, but both my mom and my brother are ministers and then, Other brother is a oncologist, like a cancer doctor, so everybody just kinda with people and helpers. So I think that's just like how we were raised is to be outgoing and interact and it just was a natural fit.

So yeah, that's what drew me to it. Yeah.

Danny: That is helpful. I feel like knowing what you want to do early is rare. I was shooting some hoops from my brother-in-law the other day and he changed his major five times. Took him seven [00:04:00] years to graduate from undergrad. In fact we, he graduated with his graduate degree.

We're the same age, the same month that I graduated with my doctorate. And it was because I just like you, I knew what I wanted to do from the get go and I just didn't change it. So I think that's pretty rare though. I don't think a lot of people do that. But for you, okay. You graduate. No, it seemed like it.

Reading your bio, it seems like you, you've had some interesting experience with different snow sport areas and Yeah, like in, in the sports arena. So you said you wanted be the Lakers pt, but what changed your mind?

Nick: So yeah, I went to PT school in San Francisco, California, San Francisco.

And then I knew I wanted to do sports, so I went right into a sports residency. I went to, it's at the Steadman Clinic. The place is called Howard Head Sports Medicine, which was awesome. Dr. Steadman basically like invented ACLS and microfractures, so we would have, can't violate hipaa, but whatever.

Danny: It's in Vail, right? This is in Colorado? Yeah, it's in Vail.

Nick: Yeah. So we'd have the best of the best athletes come and the bummer is there would be there for four weeks and then fly back to wherever they're at and do the rest of the rehab. [00:05:00] It was a cool, super cool experience, seeing how that side of the business works, of working with high-end profile people.

Even like the Joe Schmo person, there was a multimillionaire from Argentina and stuff like that. So it was a different clientele. Finished that. My wife's also a pt, which I think we'll talk about later. We did some traveling pt and then I actually went in and did like a sports fellowship, which was super cool.

I don't know if the A P A T A does this anymore, but you go to like different hubs across the country for two weeks. And you just learn from them. So went to the Cleveland clinic, went to Alabama with Kevin Wilk and Dr. Andrews. Went to New York Special Surgery Center, whatever that one's called.

Yeah. Just a lot of diverse sports training. And then eventually I became a pt. I was like, okay, I gotta do this. Treat people. Yeah. Versus learning all the time. And then the big thing is I just didn't have the hands-on manual therapy. And I believe that's definitely an important cog to the wheel.

So I went through like a manual therapy track as well. And then, yeah, just started being a pt. So that was my pathway of. [00:06:00] Starting very sporty and then realizing my deficits and manual therapy thing I went through is called the Institute of Physical Art. But the way I describe it, it's p n F meets manual therapy or P N F meets Mulligan.

So it's like active manual therapy. Where, from what I've seen, just like putting someone on the table and popping them might get short-term gains, but ideally you're like combining neuro with your manual and having them move through functional patterns and things like that. So it just hit a light bulb with my like sport experience and went down that track and yeah.

And I was in Portland at that point doing a lot of that stuff. So then we moved to Bend eventually and that's where I'm at now.

Danny: Yeah. So that's a lot. It's just a lot of experience and I think that, that's always helpful, at least from what I've seen, when somebody goes in to start their own practice it's this I guess this idea of like clinical competency or confidence even.

Cuz sometimes it's not even competency as much as it is just confidence. Like even people that are newer out of the, out of school, they might just be really confident that they can get somebody better even though they [00:07:00] may not have learned quite as much as somebody else.

So do you feel like that helped you quite a bit as you rolled into, your own practice? Yeah,

Nick: so I don't think there's one way. I think every way works, but it's nice to have a way that you can fall back onto if shit hits the fan. So this person's not getting better. Okay.

Let's go back to my like, methodology of sorts. But I think the most important thing is like the communication side of things. Can you actually talk with somebody, sympathize with 'em, if you can become friends with 'em while they're on the table, all that stuff's really gonna help your business.

So I think new grads can do it and they can do a good job, but it's a lot harder for them to process all the things of like your business, getting the person better, connecting to them on a personal level, where if you have that down and you can really just spend your effort on the business growth and your own personal development, I do think it makes it easier.

Yeah. But yeah, so I was right. Gosh, like nine or 10 years into being a PT before I started our practice. Yeah. Doesn't mean you couldn't do it sooner. Yeah. It's just how it all folded out for me.

Danny: Yeah. It's almost like you can run in [00:08:00] the background, because it, cause I get, we get that a lot when people are like, okay, so I've gotta connect, I've gotta understand why they're here.

Then I have to like assess and do an actual evaluation, come up with a prognosis, explain it to them, and then go through like sales and do all this in the same time. Then schedule them for a follow up. So it's a lot, right? Yeah. To plug into one one hour. And if you're just like solely focused on, clinical prediction rules and like sensitivity and specialty of all the shit that we learned when we first get out, that really is pretty irrelevant.

And you're just worried about even like being able to get them better. I think that would be really hard. So in your case, you had so many reps already that you feel like, all right, the treatment side was like, frankly the easier side, for you, you had to bolt on the business side. Yeah, I think you should be able to treat

Nick: the person, get 'em better while you're treating them, but also hold a full conversation at the same time.

It's like a good skill to be able to have where they don't know what you're doing. Cuz you're talking about whatever the weather. Yeah. But you're getting the friendship going, but at the same time, getting 'em better on the table or wherever you're at in the gym, so yeah. Yeah. Another [00:09:00] interesting thing on my career path is I was in Portland, we moved up to Bend and I managed a lot of in-network practices.

But I think one of the big things that just said, like I just gotta do this on my own, was I just was managing my last spot. I was managing three different clinics of an in-network practice, making sure all the PTs are like billing appropriately and showing up to work and all that stuff. But it came to the point where I was telling them to do things I just didn't believe in anymore.

And that's really what. I was like, I can't do this. I can't sit in a meeting with somebody, tell 'em to bill more when they're already billing enough or whatever, tell 'em to use more aids even though they're already using aids and I don't believe in it myself. So I had this big like moral dilemma of I, I do, I keep doing this.

I even went up to the owners of the clinic and was like, Hey, like what's my end game here? Can I be like a partner or can I get more involvement here to have more say? And they brush me underneath the rug a little bit and that they respected me, but it also didn't really go anywhere. So I was like, okay I'm out.

I should, let's just do this the right way. So that's why it probably took me [00:10:00] again nine or 10 years to get there, is to learn that experience with the grasses and always greener on the other side. So I'd be like managing a clinic in Portland. I was like, oh, maybe if I go to here it'll be better.

And then six months later I'm like, no, it's the same crap. Yeah. And it's ok, work out a few for years. And I was like, ah, okay, this isn't working. I'm not just gonna get another in-network job and think it's gonna be better. It's not the business owners, they're all doing the right things. Whatever you need to do to put food on the table and pay the bills.

But eventually, if it's not the right fit, you gotta take the wherewithal to step out and just go and do it.

Danny: So did you have, I feel a lot of people that we talked to they they feel that way, but then there's. Some moment incident, something where they're just like, fuck it, I can't, I literally can't do this anymore.

And then they like a light bulb it goes off and they start really seriously looking at something else. Did you have a moment like that or was it really just like slowly over a long period of time?

Nick: I did, I had, it was probably both, right? So it's blew slowly brewing in the background that I did have that meeting of Hey, can I eventually be a partner?

And it just turned into Hey Nick, this is everything you're doing wrong. Kind of talk. [00:11:00] I was like, alright. So I left that meeting and texted my wife right away. I can't do this. That was like, probably the turning point. Yeah. I did have a pretty steep non-compete, so I knew I had to like, sit out for a year and a half.

So I was, it was biting off a lot, but in the game end game, it was totally worth it. And I recommended even if you have to sit it out, if it's the right answer for the long

Danny: haul. Yeah. What, so what did you do? So like this was in Bend where

Nick: I was in Bend at that point. This was pre c o v. I quit and I had a year and a half, I couldn't be at an outpatient clinic.

So I was teaching manual therapy classes. I was involved in N S C A, so I helped organize that. And then I got like a home health gig, which actually ended up being awesome, especially with the start of Covid. I could pick up my kids and stuff like that. And actually enjoyed it a lot more than I, I thought I would.

But you do, you're dying a slow death there. Like how many times would you walk 'em up and down the hallway kind of thing? But whatever. I got paid a lot. I feel like I didn't really work and it was a good life experience, getting time with my family, [00:12:00] cuz I have much less of it these days. Yeah.

And we can get into that too, but Yeah. So then I sat out for a year and a half. I like only still think positive things about that last business. It was, it's not you, it's me, kind of thing. So they did everything right. And I tried to follow the, the order of the book and open my own spot a year and a half later.

Yeah. So this January would be one year of being full-time at this thing. So yeah.

Danny: Were you able to, so did you keep your home health job as you were starting? Capacity? Yeah.

Nick: Not r for a month, right? Barely. So my first month. I was doing 20 hours a week, and I think I made 12 K my first month.

Danny: Yeah. Oh yeah. That's right. That's right. That's a good reason to leave your home health job

Nick: insights on that. And I was like, I can't see these people. I was like, just seeing 13 in a row a day and just plowed through it. I was like I can't do this. And then, yeah, my wife, which we'll get into more, but she's more of the, let's be conservative, let's not take risks.

But I'm like, we just gotta do this. This isn't gonna work. I'm [00:13:00] gonna plateau. We're not gonna grow. And so eventually she caved in and said, yeah, go for it. So January one of 21 is when went all in.

Danny: Yeah. I, so I think that a couple things. First of all, so what would you attribute.

Fast first month, two, if anything, looking back and or was it literally just like people were waiting for you that had worked with you and they, you're like, all right, my noncompete is over. I'm starting, and then they were ready to see you. I think that

Nick: would work maybe if it was three to six months, but at that point it was 18 months.

I forgot people weren't waiting for me. I did do some personal training, which helped, so I like brought some of those people on. So I just worked at a local gym just itched that itch a little bit cause I was doing home health and needed some exercise, right? But a lot of it was, again, the advantage of being somewhere for five or six years before I opened it.

So the whole time I was staying in touch with doctors. I know a lot of the trainers in town, probably a month before we opened, I was texting, emailing, letting everybody know it's gonna happen and then ideally, you know what you're doing. [00:14:00] So if you get somebody better, it just grows fairly quick.

Yep. And then I was, I'm still located inside a gym right now, so I definitely utilize that resource as well. I don't have my numbers in front of me, but I think that first month I maybe had 12 evals, which is probably really good, better than I compare month one is a lot. Yeah. So yeah, to answer your question, just being there for a while, having connections and then not losing them throughout the process.

Yeah. So the second I quit, I let all the doctors know Hey, I'm gonna open my spot and a year and a half, I love working with you and all that stuff, and. Compared to other people in the Mastermind, for whatever reason, we get more doctor referrals. And I think a lot of that is just getting on the friend level, so I hardly ever just text a doc to tell 'em about ajg. Good slaughters. Yeah. Or Hey, are you going skiing? Or let's grab a beer. Or God, the badger sucked this year. I'm originally from Wisconsin. Just like somehow finding like a connection and that's what the doctors care about.

Yeah. Not necessarily what your B FFR does for quad tendon growth or whatnot.

Danny: Hundred percent. I totally agree with [00:15:00] you and I've definitely noticed that people that come out of an established in-network world where they're seeing a good bit of post-ops and they're building that rapport and they know like certain, clinicians are gonna be better than others, and it's just like certain docs are better than others.

And so I think. That is definitely something that can help build that rapport versus not have any of that. And then go into a cash, setting where they don't really know you and then you're asking them to, validate the fact that you need to go see this type of provider, which is then they have to explain the difference to their own their own, clinicians or their own patients.

Although I will say, the one caveat to that would be the PTs that we work with that do a lot of post-op ACL l work that go to their follow ups with their patients. Yeah. That seems to work really well from a rapport standpoint and developing that trust. Cuz I think that what we've we forget is like these move as well and their reputation goes with them wherever they go.

And a big part of their reputation is how do those surgeries do? And a big part of that is how do the, the people that work with them on the back end with the rehab side can make a huge difference in terms of outcomes. And they know [00:16:00] that. Exactly.

Nick: Yeah. And then I would treat 'em for free too.

So as many free treatments as you can give to start. That's the people for sure. Oh, you just gave me something for free, I'll give you some business. Yeah. And then I tried to refer as many people to them as possible too. So there's probably three or four docs to give us a lot of referrals, and I try to at least give 'em one a month is my metric back to them.

Yeah. Sure. Virtual diagnosis or nothing serious, but just to keep 'em in the loop.

Danny: Are these more at bigger hospitals or are they in like smaller practices that are, that are, we're in like

Nick: a ski town, so it's got the like strong orthopedic presence, which usually goes with that.

But there's two big groups in town with, gosh, 10 to 20 providers, so they're pretty big. But it's not like New York City or any of that.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. I've definitely, I've found that Sort of physician owned groups are much better than big hospital organizations where they're frankly like they're gonna get dinged if they don't send somebody to an internal kinda rehab facility.

With, as they're tracking their relative value units or [00:17:00] whatever. Yeah. Might be. So no, I agree with you. It, those relationships, especially depending on like your specialty with you with snow sports stuff seems to make complete sense. With the amount of time you spent with that, it sounds like you, you're into it yourself.

Yeah. Like that's a great niche in an area like that. Yeah.

Nick: The other niche that helped while I was not working, quote unquote, is I coached the local basketball team. Yeah. So like an assistant coach for the varsity team. So then that, and actually the soccer, both of those sports are just like two of our like niches.

So just getting out there and now Jimmy on the basketball team sprains his ankle, he's gonna go see you. So yeah, if you have the bandwidth, getting out there and just getting involved in the community is huge. Oh yeah. Doing a screen's great, but that doesn't get as much buy-in as just trying to be there as often as you can.

And it helps if your kid plays a sport, maybe you go to that or whatever you can do to just get involved in the community. So then there's one less barrier to get in to see you. Yeah. So

Danny: tell me a little bit about that. So like you and how many kids do you guys have? What age are they? Yeah, so

Nick: they're eight and six, so we just got two boy and girl.

Yeah. [00:18:00] In school. Doing their

Danny: thing. Doing their thing. So alright, let talk a little bit about Lindsay and how she's involved because we both clinicians but it sounds like. Obviously from what we've already said, like she's a little bit more of the conservative less risk tolerant person, which I think is it to ba mess it up with somebody who's maybe a little more risky or intolerant is good because it stops us from burning everything down.

Yeah. But yeah. So tell how does that work between the two of you guys? Yeah.

Nick: So you said it so I'm more of the visionary. She's more of the operations person. Yeah. Like my mindset is I'll spend every dollar in our savings account if it helps us grow better and build a better product where her mindset is, I'd rather spend one less penny on that bill.

If we can save a penny, that's gonna go a long ways. It works really well cuz we kinda Yeah. Collaborate really well and pick up each other's weaknesses. Dos out another in-network clinic nearby and it came to the point where I was just like, you can work 15 hours a week, be home with the kids and make just as much money.

Plus I was like dying so I needed help. So it was just easier to get her to start than somebody else. I think the hard [00:19:00] part there is just like turning it off. So at home, can you like not talk about it in front of the kids or what we do is we try to set a timeframe. Like anything after seven o'clock, we don't talk about work.

Obviously we don't talk about too much in front of the kids too, but it can be hard when your schedule's slammed and you can't talk during the day and that's the only time you have, but Right. I wouldn't say we haven't figured it out, but we're trying.

Danny: It's hard man. And I think part of it is it's a family business at this point.

It's very family oriented. Cause it's the two of you, your kids see that, right? They go to the office, they're aware of it. There's a lot of really cool parts of that. The challenge I think you just stated is, is this a relationship conversation? Is this a work conversation?

Yes. And they can bleed into each other very easily. And also it's, I think it's very enjoyable to build a business with your spouse that you guys can like, work on this thing together. It's, there's, you can share the wins with somebody. It's, cuz there's also a lot of frustrations as well that, that can either be, I guess it could be a good thing to share that with somebody and sometimes not.

But I think it's, I think it's awesome. So for you guys, the way you break it up [00:20:00] is, I guess you're seeing more of the patients at this point than she is that right? And she's doing more operations.

Nick: Yeah, she's doing. 15 to 20 hours of patient care a week, and then does probably another 10 to 15 of admin stuff.

So she's doing QuickBooks to budgeting, to like metrics and things. I'm seeing too many people, but then I'm seeing 40 hours a week of people and then we're just hired somebody. So we have a third person coming on, which will be super helpful. But yeah, I'm typically, my role is to meet with the docs, set up workshops, do all the networking, work on the social media side of things and just try to get the brand out there.

And her job is to make sure We're not just bleeding and like spending money in places we shouldn't be and like, yeah, I just have the bandwidth to keep track of the budget as well as I should. So she's really helping me on all that stuff. Yeah, which is probably the most important stuff.

So making sure you

Danny: have a business license and insurance like this stuff that, you're just like, paying taxes, all that stuff. I think it's interesting with her, what is her niche? [00:21:00] So do you guys share overlapping, populations or do you have different niches?

Great question.

Nick: No, she's like an ultra-marathoner. So she'll go and run like 40 miles on a Saturday and does a hundred mile races. So she's crazy like that. So her niche is running, so she's like a certified run coach. So she does like online programming for people to like, cool. We do like a package where you get like one visit a month in programming or she'll just do a lot of the gate analysis and that such Yeah, and then I'm more of like the ball sport ski guy who's my niche, but we're in a gym as well, so a lot of barbell athletes too.

And then the person we're hiring is a little bit more of a female return to play a c l person. So yeah, there is some wherewithal there of trying to get the right niches to match up so we're not all doing the same stuff.

Danny: I've seen it, I've seen it in two different it work well in two different ways.

Number one, it's just you're just like, do we dominate this niche? Everybody just, yeah. It's just runners or whatever. Or just women's health. Yeah. Or there's this, Swiss Army knife of [00:22:00] practice approach where it's oh, you have, oh, you're a basketball player, hurt your ankle.

You gotta see Nick. Or, or, oh, you're a runner and you're having anterior knee pain. Lindsay's your better choice. So it's like we match you up with whoever we think is the best fit based on what you're telling us. Yeah. And there's also an opportunity to refer internally if there's somebody that, thinks they have a better skillset for that or whatever it might be.

I think they both work. I think it just depends on which one you wanna pick. It sounds like you guys are going more for the Swiss Army approach. Yeah.

Nick: Yeah. It's pretty awesome taking a phone call though when someone says, I wanna see her cuz she's the runner. It's good to have people already dictate who they're gonna see before you have to like, talk to 'em.

Yeah. So like I said we're growing fast and she's hanging in there and also doing a lot of the mom stuff as well, while I'm not home too much. So she's got her hands full even though she might not be in the clinic

Danny: as much. What's what are you gonna try to do as far as volume goes?

Like what do you think is sustainable for you to get down to, because right now, obviously, you're seeing a lot and there's obviously we have these growth cycles before we bring people on. Yeah. Where we're overwhelming ourself in some ways for shorter periods of time.

You know what, what's like an [00:23:00] ideal work schedule for you over this next year in particular? Yeah, great

Nick: question. This first year, I've mostly just been in like the mindset of just grinded out. Just if you need to come in on a Saturday, I'll see you. Whatever needs to happen, I'm gonna make it happen.

One of my big caveats in PT is when you call and they're like, yeah, I can see you in four weeks, but you're like, I sprained my ankle today. Yeah. Another one is when like PTs brag about having a waiting list, I just think that's, what is that proving you can make people wait to get better? That's not something I'd be proud of.

So like I wanna do my best to get you in quick, get you better. I don't wanna remove barriers, so for that reason, like I know I'm gonna have to see people, that's just part of it. But right now I think I'm, I've been around 30 or 40 patients a week, or I'd like that number to be more like 20 ish.

I don't think I'll ever give it up. Maybe down to 10 long term. Yeah. But new person starting, I want her to be roughly at 20 ish, relatively soon. And then Lindsay, my wife, around 10 ish a week would be a good sweet spot. Yeah. Yeah, so like right now I just don't have the bandwidth to build the business as much as [00:24:00] I'd like to.

So that's where I really want to get to this year, is just hold myself accountable to keeping my blocks and keeping my skill the way it should be versus just squeezing people in.

Danny: Yeah. Your background, I think what's, what I've seen too with people that are instructors, I'd actually like to dig into a little bit more with that.

With Institute for Physical or physical art is, people that teach tend to be great mentors for other clinicians that are coming in. If they have the time to do it, like that's the challenge is if they're just busy and they're, they're redlining the whole time, then we drop the ball on building and developing the people we're bringing in.

So in, in a way, it's you're limiting growth of the facility because of lack of being able to mentor these other people and it's, you're like a force multiplier with them versus, just solely focused on the people that you're working with. For you with the institute for physical art, what's your role with that?

What do you typically do with them and how does that work with the education

Nick: side of things? Yeah, so I teach a lot of their, like lower quarter classes, so like pelvic hip, knee, foot, and ankle stuff. So some are virtual, some are [00:25:00] live. Again, it's manual therapy combined with neuro, so it's usually two or three day classes that will fly to mostly on the West coast, California, Washington.

Nevada, that area. I probably teach Covid i's changed it a little bit, six or seven times a year. Probably do a couple virtual ones on top of that. But one of the best parts is you just get to be part of the network. Yeah. So we probably get two or three referrals a month, just being part of that network of oh, you work here and you know that kind of background on pt.

I'm gonna send you my mom who just moved to Bend or whatnot. So it does help. I should have the stats there too, but like we do get consistent referrals just from being part of that like brand or institute. But you're a hundred percent right. One of my big goals again is being able to step away and mentor more.

Cuz ideally I want everybody else having similar skill sets but also getting good outcomes. And there's no way I can do that if I'm seeing a lot of patients. But I think one of the really fun things that we're pivoting into is trying to create that like work environment that you never want to leave and [00:26:00] want to be at forever.

So that's where we've been spending so much time and building all of our systems and things to really allow that to happen where I want you making a lot of money, getting good outcomes. I, we have a non, an unlimited ConEd budget where like we just want you to keep learning and growing. That's just gonna keep you from getting stagnant.

Where again, hopefully it's a place you don't get burnt out into a year later. If you're only seeing 20 patients a week, you can travel five times a year to take a class and you're making a large

Danny: sum of money. Yeah. I think that's the, this is the the, I think the problem in the profession in so many ways.

I do think that, a clinic like yours, yours, a clinic, like the one that we have the opportunity to take people. There's plenty of people that want to be just average and they just want to, they want to clock in, clock out. Yeah. And, they wanna have a job, and that's fine.

There's plenty of places for people to have employment within our profession in that scenario, I think like yourself, you fell [00:27:00] into. This subcategory of somebody that this is more like a form of art to them. This is something that they want to be the best in the world at.

They're borderline obsessed with learning and growing and improving. Even marginally, yeah, basically forever. And those kind of people, I think they get very frustrated in traditional environments if not challenges, not given the opportunity to grow, and then frankly, overwhelmed with a bunch of people that they can't even use the skills that they've worked so hard to gain.

So finding those people and giving them an opportunity to really evolve and develop and the resources to learn more as well as, but also being able to chart their worth. Cuz the thing is they are different, they're better and they want to be better than the average. So being okay with that and you being able to support that, like that seems to be the way that this can work, in a way where they can make more money, see less people, and continue to grow and evolve in a culture that really, supports that.

Yeah, I don't

Nick: know if you've noticed this, but with the younger generation, that's a harder sell than it used to be. Yeah, I think I am a millennial, but [00:28:00] we'll put millennials in a little category here of they'd rather make less, have a better retirement account and have things be guaranteed than make more, build their own schedule that way they want, they kinda want that nine to five clock in clock out.

So I think maybe 10 years ago was easier to find that pt where I think now it's a little trickier. Like we had some interviews where the guys like, you know what, my retirement set up my current job is just too good to leave, even though the job and hated the people he was working with and all that stuff.

Where I'm like, okay, that's, you're not gonna be a good fit for us anyway, if that's like what you're hanging your hat on. So it's harder to find the right person than you would think.

Danny: I, I would agree with you. So yes. So you know, like how old are you? I am

Nick: 38.

Danny: Yeah, 38. Okay. So I, I'll, I'm 30.

How am I 36? I'll turn 37. I turned 37 in a couple months. Yeah. Yeah. So right around the same time we're like the tail, like the early millennial. Yes. Maybe there's something to be said for that. But I think the bigger thing is your upbringing [00:29:00] and the people you've been around and the things that, that you are exposed to from an early age.

As well as it's, yeah. I do think that safety for a lot of people honestly, work-life balance means a lot, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I think in some ways I'm envious of someone they can literally just be like, turn it off. And they just learn about butterflies whenever they're not around or whatever.

They're into, they're into some other shit. They have hobbies they have. Yeah. And for me it's just no, I'll be obsessive over this person. I couldn't get better. And then that took that same sort of like weird obsession to business and it and in a lot of ways it's been very positive if you can focus it on the right things.

And finding somebody like that is not the easiest thing to do. Yeah. But somebody like that is going to be so much happier in an environment where, you're around a bunch of. You're just about around a bunch of other killers in the profession that want to be the best and they want to grow with other people that want to be the best.

You also have to be careful with people like that. Cause it's like raising a baby lion, because if you don't, if you don't do the right things, like they can mall you. Yeah. And and [00:30:00] create a problem. Yeah. So you're asking for a high performer, you have to put the environment in place for that person to be a high performer.

Otherwise they'll leave as.

Nick: Yeah. And one thing I've learned, which you probably agree with, is just like higher, early rather than late. So I wish I would've had this person sooner and like I'm already interviewing the next person. Yeah. Pretty soon here. Even though I probably am not ready for them, but I'd rather hire them and train 'em up than way too late and get screwed over working way too much.

Danny: Yeah. It's more fun and it's safer, right? If you have one person and that person leaves, 100% of your employees have left. If you have two people, yeah. 50% are gone if one person leaves. So I think it's, I think it's better that way as well as, from a cultural standpoint, it's nice to have multiple people.

And it and it, what's interesting too is like that can also lead to, frustrations with how personalities get along together and. It is what it is. It's the most fun part of starting a business, in my opinion, is it's not the, whatever time freedom you may end up having or the financial freedom you can develop or [00:31:00] whatever, it's literally the people you get a chance to share an environment with that you have cultivated and created that is like special to you.

And the thing that you get to attract are the people that want to be in that environment too. So you're not like, you're not dealing with Steve over here that just doesn't want to like, do anything and is constantly just like running out the door as soon as the day is over and it is always 10 minutes late.

It's literally, you get, you could fire that person because it's, you wouldn't hopefully hire them in the first place. Yeah. So I think the culture side of it is just, it's fun. And every year we have our Christmas like dinner or party or whatever we're having. And it's just so freaking cool to be able to have people come together.

Yep. That are friends of yours that we don't look at it as employees. Like we work together, we're like on these things. We're working in the same place and we're part of the same challenges and we're solving these, together. And and they're just fun people to be around. And it, I'm just, I'm looking forward to you kinda getting that point because you get a chance to be the leader of that, whether better, for better or worse.

You're the person and you're driving that.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. And I wouldn't say like we had a goal either. I think our [00:32:00] big goal was just to get people better and start to just get our name out there. Yeah. Where I think some people might work better. Oh, I need to make X thousand dollars this year to be a successful year.

My goal is just can we just get good reviews and get people better? And I think it organically happens from there. If you talk to a business folk, I probably should have this specific number next year, and I think I do, but I'd rather just focus on like the ins and outs of just getting the basics done.

And then hopefully as I can step away more, I can spend more time on. All the other really important business stuff I haven't been able

Danny: to. Yeah. But it's, it sounds like the way you guys have it set up, it sounds like Lindsay is probably a little bit more in tune with a lot of those things like metrics and numbers and all that stuff.

And there's something to be said for just being like really good at what you do and getting people outcomes because this idea of being remarkable, people think that they're really good and I don't really to have these conversations with people when it does have to happen.

Cuz it's always awkward and it's hard not to like, hurt somebody's feelings. But, I get people all the time and they're like, man, we're just really good. I wish more people knew about us. And I have to be like are you that good? [00:33:00] Yeah. If you were that awesome Yeah.

Everyone would know about you. Yeah. So there's something, and it may not. Your clinical skillset, it might be the way in which you're communicating with people. It might be your customer experience, it might be the fact that you literally are dropping the ball places that you don't, you're not aware of.

And that's leading to people not necessarily being dissatisfied and give, leading you a negative review, but you're just living in the middle with everybody else. Yeah. Which they're never gonna send their friend your way because they're putting them their own reputation on the line as someone of trust and credibility when they recommend you.

So if you do a world class job and they're like, oh my God. Like I've had people literally, like we have this one realtor that likes us so much. He tells people if you go here and you don't have the best like experience you've ever had at a medical facility, I'll pay for your visit. And it's like, how do you do that?

Like, how do you talk? I didn't even tell, I didn't know he was doing that until I met a patient that told me he was doing that. And I was like, Jesus. That's crazy. I would never say that to somebody else's business. I'll pay for your meal if you don't like this restaurant. But he, we helped him avoid surgery and a couple other things.

So [00:34:00] anyway, like you get people to do that. You don't have to be that great at marketing. Yeah,

Nick: agreed. I'm never gonna go back to working for somebody else and I'm so happy with the situation we're in right now. Yeah. But I think sometimes people forget it is very hard this like first year or two, it's not oh yeah, you're working six hours a week and making six figures.

A lot of the other cash-based practice owners that I think I've been slow. I just don't get you're working 10 hours a week, how are you gonna make more money? I think there's gotta be some mindset of yeah, I gotta work to make this happen. Again, maybe that's like a side hustle or whatnot, but I think we're all kidding ourselves.

If you think you're gonna work 20 hours a week and grow a business past yourself, and it does take some, hard work. And I think I knew that going in and I was a pretty hard worker going in, but this is by far the hardest I've worked. But to counter that, I love it. I. Not burnt out or anything.

Yeah. Obviously I just wish I was home a little bit more and stuff like that, but it's worth every moment and like I could [00:35:00] just see the light at the end of the tunnel of getting this business where we want it to be and stepping back and really just growing this awesome company for other people to work at.

Danny: Yeah. That's yeah. I think that's the key, right? Is what you said is super. I just very spot on in terms of the amount of work. Just think about starting anything takes a lot of effort. Just you, if you're pushing a sled, like the hardest part is literally getting that shit started and then I like that keeping it going is easier.

And I think that for where you're at it's funny there's a lot of people that, yeah they have a harder time and then, and it's it depends on their context, their situation, where they're at. Maybe they just move somewhere new, maybe they're working part-time like, and it's a slower start, but either it's hard either way and a lot of it is not necessarily just it's hours is one thing, but.

There's a constant sort of like mental struggle of is this working? Am I, do I know what I'm doing? Do I not know what I'm doing? And it's and it can happen in one day. You can go from this is awesome to oh shit, this isn't working in, in, in an hour. So yeah. How have you dealt with that?

Cause I feel like that is the thing and it's all mental, frankly. Yes. That's, that [00:36:00] stru people struggle with and will cause 'em to go back to a safe job that they actually don't even like.

Nick: I think this is part of my personality, but I'm just like the one day at a time person. Like I don't try to overthink things like, okay, this is what I'm gonna do today.

I'll worry about tomorrow when tomorrow comes. Obviously, like I, I plan a little bit in the process, but I think if you overthink things and worry about where this next patient's coming from versus get the patient in front of you better and get like your systems and business in order, you end up just like spinning the wheel and being counterproductive.

Instead of spending that 20 minutes looking at how many evals you had last month, spend that 20 minutes going to coffee with somebody or like getting on the phone or shooting an email or shooting a text. So I always just had the belief like, if you build it, it will come. So I was just like, okay, another day just grind.

Just go don't worry about the numbers, it will happen. And there was downs like we had. Month, I think September. I don't know why, but for some reason it was like our slowest month. And like we were both lying in bed what the hell are we doing now? Luckily we have a savings account, but let's just hope [00:37:00] this comes out.

And then the next month, like we had a 40 k a month, we had the most evals we've ever had. Yeah. Something that just builds into spending more time marketing and outreaching versus only doing it when you need to. Trying to just keep that a steady thing. I learned that the hard way. But yeah, I guess it's just keep working and it will come.

If you're genuine, you're hardworking and you get results, it will happen. You'll have ups and downs, but you just gotta stick to it. That's been my attitude of just Hey, next day, let's go. Next day let's

Danny: go. What, for you, what, what's been the hardest part? Cause I feel like there, there's obviously you've, the work is one thing, but is there anything that you've really struggled with that you've had to try to, work through and improve that, as far as entrepreneurship goes that you didn't

Nick: expect?

Yeah, I wouldn't say. I'm a social media ninja. It's not my favorite thing, but I do it and I think it's okay. I don't think I'm very good at budgeting, so I always struggled with that to start. Like Lindsay, my wife wasn't working with me and was asking me questions. I'm like I have no, I, no idea.

But at that point you're working so much and it's just as long as it keeps coming in, I don't really [00:38:00] care where it goes. Which isn't the best way to go. No. So if you don't have someone that's good to help you support that, you definitely gotta hold yourself True to like, making that a big priority.

I would do QuickBooks every month, and I would just scream my head into a pillow. I just hated it so much. But some people like it, some people don't. But you have to be like, okay with doing things you don't want to do. Especially to start until you can have the bandwidth to hire people.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's been the hard thing. And then just the turning it off, I literally, I'm in this room inside our, we are in like a 10,000 square foot gym. I could be here every day, all day for 10 hours a day and be actually happy about it. Yeah. Just that ability to just turn it off and so I've been putting things on my schedule, just says, go home, that's like a block.

Or just make sure you go skiing is what another block says. Just holding myself to getting outta here and just like making sure you put life as a priority. And I'm hopeful that just gets easier as the business grows. But

Danny: yeah, it does. It's interesting because you I feel like there's this this interesting stage where you have to you can't have [00:39:00] balance very well for a period of time.

Yeah. It's just impossible. Yeah. Really. I don't think it's just with this, but anything of significance that you try to do that's hard. There, there can't be much balance. Yeah. And, but then to get back to that point, it's actually really hard because you almost, you feel guilty you're used to a certain amount of.

Capacity of work, of, and, so your body, you should, acclimate to that and then all of a sudden you have like downtime and you feel like you should be doing something Yeah. To be productive when in actuality you just need to chill the fuck out a little bit. And that's a really hard thing to do, to get back to, yeah.

Yeah, that, that's probably gonna be a challenge for you as you work

Nick: towards that. And like I said, I've managed some in-network clinics and I always enjoyed building it. And then once it got to a really good level, I felt what do I do next? So I'm a little anxious about that. I've gotta think that through a little bit more.

But once it's that time to step back what am I gonna do to scratch that itch? Am I gonna write a book? Am I gonna, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I gotta figure out something.

Danny: You can do whatever you want. That's exactly, that's the crazy thing about it, right? Is and for you, I [00:40:00] guess it, brings up the flip side of that, right?

What's been the best part of of you deciding to do this, which is a scary move for a lot of people.

Nick: Yeah, the best part is obviously like running your own schedule. Like we're going to Disneyland next week, or I'll just get out and go skiing or whatever. It's just like the whole flexibility of you're running the whole show and it's just, it's super nice not having to like, Report to somebody.

Yeah. Like that whole hey, you do your own thing as long as it's working well. The negative of that is it is nice to have someone pat you on the back, which is why being part of your group's so awesome. Just getting confirmation bias that like what you're doing is worthwhile and working right.

Cause sometimes you have no idea of what you're doing is good or bad. But yeah, I think the big perk is again, as the kids get older, I want to go to the soccer tournament and Salem a few hours away and not feel like I'm putting the business at jeopardy to do that. And. So I think, I don't know how old your kids are, but they're gonna get to that phase where every weekend, something, we haven't been there yet, but it's fast approaching and I want to be there and not be at work all the time.

So [00:41:00] I'm just super excited about having all that flexibility.

Danny: Yeah. My, my kids are 10 and eight, and I think that, the stage you're doing this a little later than when I start, my, my daughter was six months, my son was two whenever we started our practice, which there's pros and cons of that because that's a sketchy time as a parent as well.

Yeah. But when you're talking about the time freedom side of things it's easily the most valuable thing, right? Like the fact that you can prioritize those things. Now, granted, you don't have to because there is nobody holding you accountable, but this is one of the things that we get a lot, even with our mastermind, right?

It's once people get past a certain. The conversations start to change a little bit in terms of, okay, like evals, your KPIs and like all the nuts and bolts of the business. And then it's really damn, how do I manage this sort of erratic person that I am that would literally be here 10 hours a day?

Yes. And like, how do I create like mental space and the things to, to enjoy what you've created? Because sadly, a lot of entrepreneurs, and this is one of the things that I notice a lot in [00:42:00] other groups that I'm in. Yeah. They are hyper successful in one area and they're unhealthy typically. Or the a flip side is they're like, they count everything that they eat and they're like, a monk about everything.

They don't have much balance there at all. And they tend to either do great with their family or they're on their third marriage. Yes. And so if you really look at. The score of life, whatever that arbitrary number might be or how you calculated, who knows? But finances and business and all that's just like a small fraction of it, right?

It's something we find value in and we, we enjoy it. But once we get to a certain point, it's yeah, how do you not just go to your kids' game, but how are you actually like at being present there and you're there, but are you mentally there? And that's always, I think, frustration. Yeah. Yeah. Or just thinking about this other thing because all of a sudden you're not at the officer, you're like, oh, fuck, I need to do this when I get there.

Versus pay attention to your family, like talk to somebody else about something else. And yeah. And as strange as that sounds, that's a very hard thing for people like you and I to actually do. Yes.

Nick: Yeah. I think looking back on it, I don't know if. [00:43:00] Got advice here, but I wish I would've known. I was more entrepreneurial early on in my career.

Yeah. Like I could've have probably done this five years earlier. Sure. And I was always just again, the grass is greener on the other side. And I just thought it was the job where I think it was always me. I don't know. Maybe if I read your book sooner or did more like business stuff sooner, I would've realized like, oh.

It's not them, it's me kind of thing.

Danny: I don't know. I feel like it's challenging because I think people like yourself who are, I call them like reluctant entrepreneurs tend to be the best because they they have, tried other things and at a certain point you're like, what other option do I have?

And that's all you have left. And then you realize, oh man. But all these things you learned along the way have actually probably been a massive help for you in the business that you did eventually, build and sure, like you, you totally could have done it five years ago, but maybe at that, You weren't quite ready to do it.

And you've had extremely fast growth, like some of the fastest growth we've ever seen, even within our mastermind. And a lot of that's probably because of all these experience and all these things that come together between teaching for another group and running these other clinics and having these [00:44:00] preexisting relationships and being really good at what you do and being a hard worker.

And so you mix all that together and it's yeah, no, no wonder that's happened. Like it's all the things we need all in one place and just came together at the time. That was correct,

Nick: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Said. Yeah. So it always works out. Yeah. Yeah. Another thing that helps as a business owner is like, it'll work.

Just keep going. I think

Danny: that biggest thing is to look at like the yeah. Like you have what a year roughly, right? Full-time. Yeah. Within your practice so you have a very, like small. Sample size. And so as we start to look at if you're just starting and you've only been in business for a month, you have a tiny sample size.

Yeah. So all these things that happen they're exaggerated in terms of their importance to you positively or negatively. So we have these huge swings in emotions and what happens is as you've been in business longer or really anything, whatever you're dealing with longer, this could be in sport, this could be, other experiences you're having outside of that you have a longer timeframe to be able to like relate experiences.

And you're like, oh, that happened. I remember the first December I was in business, I thought I was gonna have business. I didn't know that. These [00:45:00] businesses don't necessarily run as. Efficiently. They're not as busy in December as they are in, January or whatever, when people are not traveling for the holidays.

And of course, looking back you're like, yeah, dummy people didn't know they go visit family at Christmas. That's normal. Yeah. But I remember like sitting on the couch being, I was literally looking at jobs at hospitals Yeah. For PRN jobs I was gonna do on the weekend. Luckily, I was too lazy to apply for any of them because the first quarter of the next year I went really busy and I didn't know.

So my, response was very erratic and I overshot what it should have been. So I think that for you what's cool is like the longer that you, you're in it, the more you're just gonna turn into a little Yoda in your own business and that's gonna calm everybody else down because you're essentially the person they're gonna look to for that, just like your.

Nick: Yeah, exactly. But I guarantee when you had that December month, you weren't thinking about quitting, right? No,

Danny: no. I was literally like, how am I gonna drag this out? I'm like, I don't wanna work at a hospital. Yeah. But I'm going to on the weekends Yeah. So that I can keep doing my, floating my business.

Yeah. And then eventually leave the hospital. That's why I was doing it. Not cuz I wanted to go and get a job somewhere. Yeah. Cause [00:46:00] even like the smallest amount of success, I remember after the first time somebody paid me in cash and this probably actually was the reason it was. Memorable.

The first patient I had, his name was Sam. He gave me $525 cash. Yeah. Because it was $175 a visit. He paid me for three hours. Yeah. He came in middle of the freaking summer in Atlanta in a hot ass gym. We're like sweating all over each other. He's that was awesome. Thanks so much. He gives me a little wad of money, and I remember sitting there and I didn't leave my office for probably like 20 minutes.

I just counted it and I remember just being like, holy shit, this is real. Yeah. Look, this. This guy just paid me. Yeah. And he also gave me a big ass sweaty bear hug. Yeah. He was like this big defense contractor that had been following me around. So our blog somehow. Yeah. And I remember thinking like, this is amazing.

I made the best decision ever. Yeah. And that lasted for a short period of time. And then I was like, oh fuck, where's the next person coming from? So it's crazy, but it's, yeah. There's no doubt in my mind, and I'm sure for you too. Do you never go back to work for somebody else, would you?

Nick: Yeah. I remember the first package I sold. I like skipped outta the clinic and ran and called my wife right away. Like someone, [00:47:00] someone's doing it. It's

Danny: happening. It worked.

Nick: It's addictive too. Like when you sell those packages or those plans of care and people just jump on your ship and go with you, it's so a, it's such a great feeling.

Yeah. And then, People just get it too, right? If they've been to four other PTs and you're the fifth person and you actually tell 'em what's wrong and talk to them for more than two minutes yeah, sure. Just take all my money.

Danny: You're so right, man. I think that's one thing you brought up earlier too, is just the ability to build rapport with people and connect with somebody is I think we take that for granted that if somebody goes to a any sort of clinic, whatever it might be, the amount of time that somebody actually spends with them asking them about what's going on and listening to them is so small and it's just so rare that if you do that I think it's the biggest differentiator in these types of practices is like the ability to listen to someone and build trust with them, and in, in a vulnerable space for them, they're dealing with something that's stopping 'em from doing something they really want to do or causing pain in some other way in their life.

Like just that alone. Is such a huge part of it [00:48:00] and is such an overlooked part in, the education process of just even getting our own degrees. I think that for and for what you're talking about, like carrying a conversation, becoming a friend or building trust with them while you're actually like solving the problem.

Yep. That's the key.

Nick: Yeah. And then, we're like texting 'em two or three times that first week if they're having surgery, like we call 'em before and after surgery. It's just like that ability to have touchpoints and connect. I, it is just so huge and people just love that stuff. I completely agree.

A horrible pt. But they'll still come see you just cuz you care and. Give 'em the time to do it.

Danny: Yeah. You can't fake that. And you can't automate giving a fuck I think what you like, you can't automate calling somebody and seeing how their surgery, or, Hey dude, are you nervous? Do you have any questions about this?

You, here's what I can tell you. Here's your best thing to do. And, and most people just wouldn't even do that because they, it's, it takes time, it takes effort and being intentional, so even like even hearing these little things of what you're doing, it's yeah, no wonder you guys are crushing it.

Like you're doing things that other people, frankly are just.

Nick: Yeah. And they don't have the bandwidth. If you see 25 people a day, you don't even know who [00:49:00] no 10 of those people are. How are you gonna follow through with them biweekly or whatever it is. Yeah.

Danny: They know it too. They don't wanna be there either.

Think about how many people you have that come from that environment. Yeah. And they're like, dude, I don't wanna be over here on the, the shuttle doing, biometrics that, while somebody's over here in the corner talking to somebody else about, I spent five minutes with this person and I'm just going there to do stuff I could do at a gym.

Like, why am I even here? Yeah. And there's no skill necessarily involved. And it's not the fault of the provider necessarily. I'm sure they don't wanna do that. I didn't wanna do that when I worked in those environments. Yeah. But you don't have an option because the other thing is you got 25 notes to write.

So if you're not actually trying to chip away those during the day, you're spending hours at the end of the day just catching. Yeah,

Nick: agreed. Yeah.

Danny: Anyway, we can bitch about the profession for the next hour. We'll go ahead and we'll we'll drop it there and I wanna finish with just people being, getting a chance to be able to reach out to you because you're right.

You guys have, first of all, you guys are a super cool area lots of outdoor activities to do. You're growing like a week. Somebody's interested in learning more about what you guys are doing and see if honestly if your company's the right fit for them [00:50:00] or just touching base or know somebody in ness, needs some help.

Like where can they learn more about your practice and reach out to you. Yeah.

Nick: Just one other nugget I wanna throw in before that. So we probably have more PTs per capita than like any other city in America really. We have just swamped. There's just so many PTs and I think one thing I've learned in the process being in Bend is don't worry about it.

Other people do just worry about what you do. I'm referring people to other PTs and they're competition at the same point. But again don't stress that there's

Danny: a lot of people that we can help that Yeah, we, they don't even know we can help them.

Nick: Yeah. And I feel like I sometimes send them to somebody else and if they don't get results, they come back to me.

So that idea of the Giver, have you ever read that book? Yeah. Yeah. Awesome book. If you haven't read it and read it, it'll change your world. But yeah, we're in Bend, Oregon. So you can find [email protected] Instagram. You can find [email protected]. You can email me at nick h at Capacity pt.

Yeah, so social media has a lot of fun stuff of, we do a lot of ACL l stuff from return to play, even a lot of barbell stuff. So we'll have a lot [00:51:00] of good videos on there if you're a PT and just kinda wanna geek out on some exercise stuff. Nice. Or even learn some manual therapy techniques and things like that.

But if you're a client who needs help, yeah, shoot an email, get on the webpage. It's decent enough to figure out what we do, and we get a good amount of referrals just from the web platform itself. Yeah, we'd love to help or reach out if you have questions.

Danny: Cool. Man, this was great. Thank you so much for your time today.

I know you're obviously a busy guy, you got a lot of stuff to do, but you shared some great stuff today. I hope you will really take away some of the nuggets that you dropped in there and yeah, it's very easy to see why you're having success with what you guys are doing and your work ethic and commitment to really like being great and helping other people.

It's just common you guys doing, and it's cool to watch.

Nick: Yeah thanks to you guys. Give me all the framework for this stuff so you're involved in that process as well.

Danny: So appreciate it. Just tiny man. All we gotta do is just find people like you and then just get. Throw some proven like systems in there and then you just with it.

And the coolest part is to watch you have success and then see like what other things that, come from that with shared experiences of people. I think that's been actually like [00:52:00] my, frankly my favorite part is we get the right people together on a monthly basis setting together a couple times a year.

And then all of a sudden, like the model vault, it improves. And then, next thing you know, like we, we have, we literally have, a handful of people that are at the seven figure mark that are blowing past it. Not even limping past it. They're killing it. And I don't think anybody thought, definitely not me, eight years ago where when we started my practice that this was something that could even grow to that size.

Yep. I just thought I'd be in a CrossFit gym by myself, but hey, better than, the alternative. Yeah. But it, these are, very scalable at this point and it's cool to.

Nick: Yeah. And then I know we're trying to leave. One other nugget is, go ahead. We, the reason why I think we grew so quick too was like we signed up to be part of the mastermind before I even started the business.

So like that immediate mentoring and systems was huge. Obviously scary. You're not making any money and you're paying for mentorship, but that's one other tip I advise is get help as soon as you can. Don't die for six months before you reach out for

Danny: help. Which is normal, that's what most people do.

It just depends on like how much you have to beat your head against the wall to realize you don't know it. But the same thing happens like clinically [00:53:00] think about with you, with being a clinical educator. Yeah. You have some people and they're straight outta school or, and they're just like, Hey, teach me like I'm ready.

And there's no bad habits and they haven't had to get frustrated with patients. And then you have some people that come in, it's 10 years later, and they're like, okay, tell me a little bit about what I should do. And I'm sure the people that start early, you probably see accelerated changes with them.

Yeah. Agreed. All right, cool. All right, we'll finish it there, Nick. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Guys. As always, thank you so much for watching this in the Facebook group and listen to the podcast. So we'll catch you guys next week.

What's up, PT Entrepreneurs? We have a new exciting challenge for you guys. It's our five day PT biz part-time to full-time challenge where we help you get crystal clear on how to actually go from a side hustle to a full-time clinic. Even if you haven't started yet. This is a great way to get yourself organized in preparation for eventually going full-time into your business.

So we actually help you [00:54:00] get crystal clear on how much money you're actually gonna need to replace with your business to be able to make a lateral transfer. How many people you're actually gonna need to see based on what you should be charging. We're gonna tell you three different strategies you can take to go from part-time to full-time, and you get to pick the one that seems like the best fit for you for your current situation.

We even show you all the sales and marketing systems that we teach within our Mastermind for people that are scaling to multiple clinicians, past themself that you need to have in your business to be able to go full-time. And the last thing is we help you create a one page business plan. This is a plan that's gonna help you get very clear on exactly what you need to do and drive action.

That's what this is all about. We want you to win. We want you to take action, and in order to do you have to get really clear on what you need to do next. So go to physical therapy biz.com/challenge. Get signed up for the challenge today. It's totally free. We think this is gonna be a game changer for you and are excited to go.

Hey, real quick before you go, I just wanna say thank you so much for listening to this podcast, and I would love it if you got involved in the conversation. So this is a one-way channel. I'd love to hear back from you. I'd love to [00:55:00] get you into the group that we have formed on Facebook. Our PT Entrepreneurs Facebook group has about 4,000 clinicians in there that are literally changing the face of our profession.

I'd love for you to join the conversation, get connected with other clinicians all over the country. I do live trainings in there with Eve Gigi every single week. And we share resources that we don't share anywhere else outside that group.

So if you're serious about being a PT entrepreneur, a clinical rainmaker, head to that group. Get signed up. Go to facebook.com/groups/ptentrepreneur, or go to Facebook and just search for PT Entrepreneur. And we're gonna be the only group that pops up under that.