E712 | Mastering The Discovery Call With Jeremy Dupont

In this episode, Danny and Jeremy discuss the essential role that effective communication and sales skills play in the success of physical therapists, particularly those operating cash-based practices. They highlight common challenges faced by physical therapists in converting potential leads into clients, emphasizing the importance of clearly communicating the value of their services.

Jeremy's personal experience adds a relatable touch to the discussion. He shares his initial struggles with converting leads generated through paid advertising, offering insight into the real-world difficulties many face. The emphasis on developing a system and script for handling initial phone calls is a valuable takeaway for any physical therapist looking to enhance their conversion rates.

The concept of the "discovery call" is highlighted as a pivotal moment in the sales process. Building rapport, understanding client goals, and effectively positioning cash-based services are key to success during these calls. The discussion around overcoming objections, scripting, and training underscores the importance of preparation and confidence in handling these crucial conversations.

By focusing on improving conversion rates and implementing scalable systems, physical therapists can unlock new levels of growth and efficiency in their cash-based practices. The introduction of The Patch System as a resource for developing these systems further emphasizes the actionable advice provided in this episode. Overall, this podcast serves as a comprehensive guide for physical therapists looking to elevate their communication and sales skills in the realm of cash-based practices.

Ready to elevate your practice? Book a call at the link below with one of our expert consultants today and start your journey to delivering unparalleled physical therapy.

www.physicaltherapybiz.com/apply

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] Hey, real quick, if you were serious about starting or growing your cash based practice, I want to formally invite you to go to Facebook and join our PT entrepreneurs Facebook group. This is a group of over 6, 000 providers all over the country. And it's a pretty amazing place to start to get involved in the conversation.

Hope to see you there soon. Hey, are you a physical therapist looking to leverage your skillset in a way that helps you create time and financial freedom for yourself and your family? If so, you're in the right spot. My name is Danny Matta and over the last 15 years I've done pretty much everything you can in the profession.

I've been a staff PT. I've been an active duty military officer, physical therapist. I've started my own cash practice. I've sold that cash practice. And today, my company physical therapy business helped over a thousand clinicians start growing scale, their own cash practices. So if this sounds like something you want to do, listen up, cause I'm here to help you.

What's going on doc Danny here with Jeremy Dupont. Supposedly, we're supposed to go live and Facebook group on this 1, but if you're listening to this, it's not in the Facebook group just [00:01:00] yet. We had an update that just happened and Facebook and zoom yesterday and technically unable to get it figured out for the timeline that we have to actually do this training.

So we're going to record it. We're going to upload it in there. And if you're listening on the podcast. Doesn't really matter to you one way or another, but we appreciate you listening either way, because this is a really important training. In fact, I think that one of the areas that is the biggest drop off points in physical therapy, like cash based practices, is the ability to have a conversation with a potential customer that's a, that's just a lead and explain to them why.

It's worth it for them to at least come in your office for an initial evaluation. Most people, when they get you in the door and they get a chance to do their initial evaluation, they crush it because you're great at building rapport and you're very talented as a clinician. And they, it's apparent that, you're talking about.

So they want to solve a problem with you, but getting them to that. To that point, sometimes is the hardest part. So Jeremy has a great training that we're going [00:02:00] to go through on this, both between he and I, we've done easily over a thousand of these calls. It's a lot and it does take a little bit of.

Practice, as you get better at this, but having a system you can follow can really be helpful. So Jeremy, why don't you describe a little bit about the evolution of you taking these calls and why you think they're, they're so important for people to get really good at.

Yeah. I think it's

Jeremy: super interesting how I even started to focus on this stuff too, and I think a lot of clinic owners, they, when you start your business. Mainly the leads that are coming in to see you are warm leads or the referrals or they're people you met at a workshop and they're already like they're already educated on what you're doing.

That really isn't like a sales phone call at all. They know what they're getting into themselves into. And I'll never forget we started running paid advertising, so we got loads of calls in the door and I converted on none of them because everybody opens the call. They're like, hey, do you take my [00:03:00] insurance?

What's going on? Like, how does this work? And I remember my turning point, like, when I joined the mastermind group a couple of years back, I skipped the how to answer the insurance question because I never really got that. I never, because everyone already knew. Again, what they're coming in for, and they knew that I didn't take insurance and they, I never really even faced that question.

So I remember going back into your modules and being like, how do I answer this insurance question? How do we go over this? And really starting to understand. There's got to be a system and I think you said it right to we focus so much on selling the package at the evaluation, but I think there needs to be a script for that.

There's got to be, like, certain steps and phases that you hit within that evaluation. Certainly. But our service is so awesome that when people get in and experience the difference between an in and out of network clinic, selling that package is. Really easy. So as long as you can come the price of injection you blow them away with that evaluation.

It sells [00:04:00] itself, but doing that on a phone call to somebody that, their doctor just told them, Hey, you've got to go to physical therapy. Go figure it out. So they may not. They may have had previous experience where. They got that traditional P. T. They went to that traditional clinic.

They had the 20 minute sessions or they got passed off to the aid or whatever it was. And so I really had to take a big step back and figure out how do I, because I want to scale my clinic. So how do I convince these people and convince maybe isn't the right word, but yeah. Educate them on, hey, you're looking for physical therapy.

Tell me what you got going on. Let me hear you out for 1520 minutes here and really start to understand what are the problems you're dealing with and why you should choose us and you should come in. And even though we don't take your insurance. I want to show you why that you should come in and see us versus go in that traditional route.

So as soon as I took a step backwards and really focused on That was like the [00:05:00] turning point for our clinic like I was able to get You know, pretty much everybody I talked to on the phone to come in and at least experience that evaluation and we did a lot of training and onboarding with my and they crushed the evaluation.

Even though these were. Quote, unquote, less qualified new patients that were coming in, we're still selling packages because our. Service was awesome, but we wouldn't have had the opportunity to even sell those packages. If I wasn't able to educate that person on the phone of here's what you would get if you went the normal route, but here's all the awesome stuff you would get with us.

So I think that was a really big turning point for my business in a pretty big unlock when I figured out Hey, how do we take these people who don't really know what they're getting themselves into? And. At least get them in the door to come in for that evaluation. So that's why I think like being able to sell on the phone is so important.

Setting up discovery calls is so important. It's just like a foundational thing that every clinic owner should have in their back pocket and they should do.

Danny: We talk about the concept of an unlock in the [00:06:00] business. And I think that's such a interesting way of looking at it. Because there's definitely a few different parts of the business model where that happens, right?

Like the discovery call is a big one. The ability to sell a plan of care is big. The ability to have consistent, recurring. Revenue developed through continuity services and other types of services that you have in your business is a whole other one. And the ability to scale past just a word of mouth and local marketing is another big one, but goes hand in hand with the the discovery call and being able to effectively take those calls.

Can you describe the difference in terms of the conversations, the difficulty in some cases between. Someone that's being referred to your clinic that's jumping on a discovery call and somebody that sees an ad because if you want to scale to do cold traffic ads at people, they're searching terms, people that are looking at things on Facebook.

You gotta be able to have that conversation. Otherwise it's really not even worth advertising.

Jeremy: Totally. Yeah. And I think that's if you have a current patient that's referring their [00:07:00] friend or their spouse over to you, they've already had that conversation of Hey, Jeremy's awesome.

They do this service a lot differently. You got to pay out of pocket. But you get all these other benefits with it. So that person is getting on the phone with me almost as a formality, because that's how you book an evaluation with us is you have to book a discovery call. So that person already knows what they're getting into.

They're basically just calling to schedule an appointment is really what it is. Versus somebody that sees your ad, say you're doing ads or maybe you rank on first page and they found you via. Google or whatever it might be. Again, that person just searched physical therapy near me. Chances are like what I've found over the couple of hundred discovery calls I've taken.

Like people don't even really know what physical therapy is, especially they don't know like what cash based physical therapy is. So I always open the call and, after the rapport building side of things, it's just tell me your experience with PT. Have you gone to [00:08:00] PT before for this injury?

And they're either going to answer 1 or 2 things, right? It's either going to be yes, I'm about their experience. What was it? What are the sessions look like? How did you feel afterwards? What are the next 3 months look like? And, I'm able to pick apart that experience that they had prior and say.

Sounds like that was a decent experience, but here's what we do a lot better and why this is going to be a game changer for you. So I'm able to, again, take that problem that they have in position us as the solve for it versus the traditional route that they're able to go. You've got to look at it again as like you need to this phone call really is to educate somebody on what PT is and especially what cash based physical therapy is because if they don't understand that, then why would they spend 250 bucks on eval 2000 dollars on a package?

It's gonna be really hard

Danny: to make that sale. So if you're breaking these calls down and number one, there's [00:09:00] a a training course that Jeremy put together to go along with this, which is awesome. You don't necessarily have to take notes and try to remember everything. You can get that training course and we'll drop a link on the video when we upload it and if they want to go to the page, number one I believe it's the patch system.

com so the patch system. com Forward slash phone sales course. If you're listening to this on the podcast, that's where you'll go. And we'll drop a link in the Facebook group. If you're not in the Facebook group, definitely head in there. You can watch the video of this and and you can get the link there as well.

But when we break this up into smaller parts, right? So like when we teach our staff. How to do this when we're teaching the clients that we work with how to do this, it's helps to chunk it down to different phases. So walk me through how you like to teach this to, new clinicians that are coming in that might be answering a call or having a conversation like this, because not just the phone, but it's also out in the world, it might bump into [00:10:00] somebody and all of a sudden it's a discovery conversation, face to face.

Jeremy: Totally. Yeah. And it translates into talking at workshops to, or when you're meeting local referrals or anything like that I think all of these steps, relate to, outside of the phone call as well.

And Danny said to Within the course, there is the script in there as well. So again following along here, if you grab the course, there's a full script that you can make a copy of you can change. And really what I want people to do is, take the system that I've created here and.

Customize it for your business as well, because it's not going to be copy and paste what we do at Ripple, my clinic it's got to be customized to you because the first thing that I always do when I open up the call with someone is just like that rapport building, I think is really crucial. And I almost like I don't allow people to get into their injury right off the bat first, because I want to like, Again, I want to give them a different experience than what they would get if they call the hospital PT clinic [00:11:00] and, front desk person answers the phone and they just say, what insurance do you have?

What time can you do? We want to give them a different experience right off the bat. I always break it down of the 1st thing you need to do is build a rapport with that person. So I got on call with someone that's, Hey, how's your Friday going? What's going on? And they usually say, I'm in the office today, or we're working from home or whatever it is. And I always try to parlay that into, for us, being in Boston, it's oh, you're in the office. Are you in Boston? Are you downtown? What do you got going on? And again, I'm trying to avoid that initial PT convo right off the bat, because I want to, I want them to let their guard down, which will lead in kind of the next parts.

But again, I think that rapport building is super important. Because the next phase that we lean into is cool. Like you're in Boston, our clinics in downtown, we're right there. Do you go to the coffee shop, cross street whatever. But then the next thing I ask is tell me what you've got going on.

And if without that rapport building side of things that initial [00:12:00] two to five minutes, they're just going to be like, I got this knee injury, I got PT and I'm looking to schedule an appointment. But since I buttered him up a little bit during that rapport side of things, they're more apt to say, I lift 5 days a week.

I try to play pick up soccer on Thursday nights and, I was a college athlete. I had this neat thing going on in college. And now I can't play pickup soccer anymore and I give them the space. I put my phone on mute and let them go and try to get them to talk as much as possible because again, like we're trying to differentiate our service versus what they would get on the traditional route.

If I give them the floor to just. Talk and continue to ask them. What is that affecting for you? Or, oh man are you able to get any workouts in? What are your runs look like? Are you able to, do you still go to soccer and you just sit on the bench? What we're trying to get into that five layer?

Why? That we talked about during the eval stage. So if I give them the floor to open up, they [00:13:00] feel much more comfortable with me. And that allows me to figure out why the hell are they even reaching out to me? And how do I now position our services to be that solved? So if you can build a rapport and then give them the space to open up your odds of being able to book that evaluation, go way higher,

Danny: just that alone.

I think that. At number one, if they called a hospital clinic, they're not talking to a clinician usually, like they're just too busy, they're not gonna, they're not gonna do that, but they'll talk to somebody at the front desk and you're right. Primarily, it's just what time works for you, just very transactional and I do think it is rare when somebody calls up and someone's my gosh, what's going on?

Tell me about it, what's that affecting? And honestly, it's not that. You don't, if you honest, if you honestly care about helping people with, you're not faking it, you're just, it's part of our job, right? We're great active listeners and, but being able to [00:14:00] really help people understand sometimes they don't even know, right?

It's yeah, your knee hurts. That's why we're talking, but we're really talking because, your social community is wrapped around a soccer league. And if you can't play, pick up soccer, once or twice a week, whatever it is that you're doing, that means you're not grabbing a beer afterward with your friends, or you're not meeting up to, kick the ball around in a park or something like that, or you're not getting invited to go watch the game, at a bar or something like that, because you're not as part of that community anymore.

And for them to really, it's one thing for us to say that. It's something very different whenever they say, cause if I say those things, they're like shit, you're right. Versus, if I can just ask what's that affecting, oh, is there man, is there anything else that's creating, limitations with outside of it?

What about time you're spending with those people outside of, the field and honestly, like solving a problem to be able to get back to activities you love to do with your community. [00:15:00] That's a much. Bigger pain point than just that you factor your knee hurts, right? But being able to level with somebody and them understand that you understand their sport their goals, and also not to say you should probably stop doing that.

How old are you? Don't you think you should stop doing that now? That right there is what most people get. And when we can lead with, oh, yeah, that's, we work with soccer players all the time. Like I'm very familiar with this league. That's great. Just building that rapport and then understanding like why they're actually calling you, that is where most people screw up, honestly, they're too quick to want to just get into the details of their visit and all the features of everything and what's included versus just understand like who you're talking to and why they're actually taking the time out of their day to give you a call.

Jeremy: Totally, yeah, and I think like you said, if you can do that effectively and, I always if that person talks for more than 5 minutes explaining what they're doing. I'm like there's no chance this person is not booking the [00:16:00] evaluation on the phone right now. There's just no way because they've already opened up.

We've established rapport there. They feel comfortable enough to tell me what all of these things are affecting. That's a home run really. And that's leans into. So you understand the problems they're dealing with. What their aspirational identity is, we talk about that a bunch in marketing.

I think that goes with the phone call as well. So you're understanding like, where are they at now and where do they want to be? Then we position kind of the 3rd step with this is just like explaining what the cash base physical therapy system is and how it's different than the traditional in network setting.

And that's where I, I value stack a ton of as an athlete or as someone that likes to be active. You really need 1 on 1 care. You need a treatment plan. That's not just based around your knee injury, and we're just going to fix the knee. So we're going to look at you as a soccer player. Even if you right now, you probably don't feel like 1, but we're going to treat you as if you're a soccer player.

We're going to look at the whole body. We're going to take you through a [00:17:00] full, that 1st session is a full, it's a 60 minute evaluation. We're going to obviously take a look at the knee and see what's going on there. We're going to look at your ankle and your hip and your spine and posturally where are you sitting and what does your gait analysis look like and we're going to get you into the gym.

We have this full gym, there's a squat rack, there's kettlebells, we've got weights up to 100 pounds. We're going to get you in there and we're going to test your strength and see where you're at. A lot of people call in and, you can tell when you're talking on the phone with somebody if they're looking for more of the manual side of things.

So it's we're going to get you on the table. We're going to do the joint moves. Our goal is to understand what the root cause of the problem is here. But I also want you walking out of here feeling better too. So we're going to get you on the table. We do dry needling. And again, that's where you're value stacking all of the awesome things that you guys do that they're not going to get in the traditional clinic.

So if you can really, again, just showcase how awesome the cash based services is, with us, we get everybody on true coach. So I talk [00:18:00] about we have this mobile app, the minute the sessions are 60 minutes. But you have a PT in your pocket. If you ever need anything, you shoot us a message and your true coach will update your program for you.

We're also going to give you PT exercises. We're going to really break out your whole training week. And what does that look like? And we're going to update that each week as we move forward. And really, the point, this is where I start to position. The evaluation is the eval is this one session.

It's a one off session and we're going to see where you're at now. We're going to take what your goals are, and we're going to figure out where you want to be in 3 months from now. And then we're going to give you a treatment plan. That's again more than just these individual sessions, but it's going to be a 24 7 treatment plan where, if you have this goal to get back to.

Playing soccer in three months, we're going to get you there. This is how we're going to do it. It's going to be very clear. It's going to be very concise and our sections, they [00:19:00] go much further than just, or our support goes much further than just that one on one session that usually leads into them saying, that sounds awesome.

That's exactly what I'm looking for. That's, not what I was getting at the other place. What does the cost look like? What is, what does all of this look like?

Danny: And that's Before we get into cost, I do want to add one thing to this because where you're getting at, the segue, I think is where people get really nervous, right?

They're good until they have to talk about, Oh what's Okay. So what does this cost? And do you take my insurance? This is where trips people up. But before that, one thing that you brought up that was really important is that you're speaking to that person about the thing that they told you is important to them and that you're building everything around the understanding that's what they want to get back to.

So for you, you talk about a couple of things, right? It's this isn't like your traditional clinic. Like we work with high level [00:20:00] athletes, soccer players like yourself all the time. So you're not going to feel out of place. If anything, it's going to more feel like you're like a gym where you're training than it is like a rehab facility, like a hospital where everybody's, geriatric or something, right?

That's not you. So you're basically framing this around the athlete. And then also. I take for granted sometimes what people I just think people know this stuff sometimes because it's what we do But they really don't and i'll give you a good example Like i'm in this networking group you are as well And I had a call with a guy that reached out to me In my intro i'd said, you know what?

I what I do without my background as a physical therapist He reached out to me about his foot. He has some plantar fascia issues. So I book a call with him on his coaching calendar to talk to him about his foot. And so I talked to the guy and he collegiate basketball player still playing basketball five to six days a week and So I asked him I was like, what is how long has been going on, and it's been like a year It's been bugging him.

He's done nothing but passive [00:21:00] stuff. He wears like a stroudsberg sock And he's done. He's done some massage but I asked him I said, what do you do outside of Basketball are you doing any training, like to keep yourself healthy and build resiliency for basketball? And he was like, I do pushups.

Does that help? And I was like, you're doing pushups a lot on the basketball court. And he's what are you getting at? And I said, dude you were playing basketball in college. Did you strength train? Did you have a strength conditioning program? And he was like, yeah, for sure. It was like, we had to do that.

And I was like, you're probably playing more basketball now than you were in college. So you're playing six games a week. That's crazy, man. And he wasn't doing anything zero, like nothing. And he didn't think that was weird. And so sometimes just people even understanding that, there's little things that say you're missing a lot of performance.

For me. It was like, you want to play for another 10 years like this, dude, you got to put, you got to put it back, back in your body. You got to give back. You can't just take away from it. And then for me, it was team him up with somebody that had come out of the NBA. There was a basketball specific guy and he was like, salivating over this person.

So I do think that's the [00:22:00] other thing that if you have people on your team. That are niche specific to different things. We had a guy that was a great physical therapist for soccer players. Every time that we had a youth athlete, soccer player, adult soccer player call in, we're like, Oh, we're going to get you on so and so schedule because they, played in college.

They coach soccer. They're like the best soccer person in the state. You're lucky that you live near us. And now all of a sudden you're making it even more specific to them, if you can do that. So there's like little things you can do to really build alignment with what they're trying to do and really make it.

To where it is the most likely outcome for them to get what they want. Prior to them asking you, okay, cool. Let's what does this cost? Because that's where people drop off. So I would love to know. If I, if you're talking to me and I'm a soccer guy and I'm like, yes, Jeremy sounds awesome. All right, Jeremy, this is going to cost me a big guy.

And you guys take my insurance or anything like that.

Jeremy: Yeah. And I think that's it. It's a really important part. And that kind of goes into the third phase of explaining what cash PT is. Cause you know, during the rapport building and letting them talk, like [00:23:00] I'm able to understand. What type of athlete are they?

Who are they? What do they want to get back to? Then I can position, the P. T. properly of we've got this guy on staff. He's a shoulder expert. This is going to be perfect for you. Play college sports. I think you, you bring up a good point there and that goes into like the sale and overcoming that insurance side of things is we're specialty clinic.

We, we don't see general population people, we see people that are more active looking to push it and the traditional world of P. T. like you're too advanced for that right off right out of the box. You're way too advanced for that. You're going to go to 1 of these clinics and do a couple of band exercises and leave.

We get you into the gym as soon as possible. And that's where the strength training side of things under the watchful eye of a P. T. Becomes really important, because if you want to train for this marathon or play, pick a basketball 6 days a week, or whatever it might be, you need that [00:24:00] training piece of it.

And you need it really specific to what we find during that evaluation, because everybody's anatomy is different and your program has to be properly designed for what we find or that evaluation and how you progress with the rehab. So that, that becomes a really big part of the pitch and how.

Without him even asking, I'm overcoming that insurance objection just right there because, we're positioning ourselves as much more than what they think a physical therapist is. So when somebody asks, about the PT side of things, it's, I get into, and I'm pretty transparent with it.

It's, If we were to run this through your insurance, you would not be able to get the true coach access in the 60 minute sessions and sessions that are based on what you need that day. It would just be based on what the protocol is or what the plan of care is and what insurance is dictating for us.

Regardless of you come in and you're feeling awesome. Guess what? We're getting into the gym and you're dead lifting because that's what you need today. This week. [00:25:00] This is, what are the part of the progressive program that we put together versus, say, you ran 30 miles this week because you're prepping for a marathon and you're feeling a little beat.

Guess what? We're getting on the table. Let's do some we'll do some manual therapy. We'll get some dry needles on you. And we want to make sure that you're feeling as good as you can for whatever you have coming up. So we have that ability to change on a dime based on what you need. Versus again, what the insurance company is telling us what to do.

So because of that, we don't take insurance. How it works is you come in for this initial evaluation. It's a one off session. This eval is designed to understand what you've got going on. And yes, you might have this knee injury happening, but we want to make sure that it's the knee because chances are it's probably the ankle or the hip or the spine or something else that's going on.

And again, Because we're nontraditional, we're able to treat the hip if it's a hip issue, instead of [00:26:00] a knee issue versus if you go somewhere else, they may not be able to do that for you. And you're going to just be in the cycle where you're going to need PT every couple of months. I position that evaluation, which I think is really important as like a 1 off session.

It's just come in and give it a shot. We actually we look at the evaluations. I think a little bit differently than most clinics do. We offer like pretty heavy discounts on that evaluation. We almost look at it as our low barrier entry offer, and we do a 50 percent or a 50 evaluation, depending on the time of year and what we've got going on, because that's it.

I want to create as less friction as possible for these people to come in for the evaluation, because if I know if they're the right fit and I trust my PTs, they're going to knock it out of the park with the evaluation. They're going to sell that package.

Danny: Hey, sorry to interrupt the podcast. I have a huge favor to ask of you.

If you are a longtime listener or a new listener and you're finding value in this podcast, please head over to iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to the podcast. And [00:27:00] please leave a rating and review. This is actually very helpful for us to get this podcast And really help them develop time and financial freedom.

So if you would do that, I would greatly appreciate it. Now back to the podcast.

Jeremy: Because I'm also putting myself in that person's shoes where say they're, they got referred by their doctor to go to physical therapy. They found us from a Google ad. They landed on our website. Now they're on this phone.

That all happened in 24 hours. If I say, Hey. This also is going to cost you 300. They're going to be like, you know what, I'm going to call around and see what else I can find. And they'll go in network or they just won't do anything. So I think it's really important to position that evaluation as come in experience what we have, if you don't decide to move forward with a plan of care, you're going to have some basic info to try to do it on your own if that's what you want to do.

But there's no commitment. You're not locked into anything here. Again it's 50 bucks or it's 150, and then I think the most [00:28:00] important part for us and what I always look for is I've got four evaluations in the next three days. Can you get in for these appointments? We don't want this knee injury to continue on for another couple of weeks.

So it leads into the last part of the insurance, overcoming the insurances. you can't get them in for a couple of weeks. They're probably going to say, you know what, let me call around and see what I can figure out. But if I'm like, I got an appointment tomorrow. It's with Chris. Chris is awesome.

Would love to get you in house 10 a. m. work that right there. Like we'll convert people 20 percent more than, again, if you're trying to push people out a couple of weeks.

Danny: I think there's a couple of things that are important for people to like just keep in mind. So number one able to acknowledge what other options look like, I think is great in terms of, Hey, I wish that there were more places for somebody like you to go, but to be honest with you, most traditional clinics, [00:29:00] Therefore, the elderly population, it's just that simple.

Like it's Medicare, older population, work comp, and personal injuries. But you're going to be in there with a lot of people that aren't like you, you're going to easily be the fittest person that walks through the door. And that's maybe not the best place for you because what people are, what they're used to working with is not.

High level athletes are trying to play a sport even, for them, like a recreational soccer player is a high level athlete and don't take, if you're listening to this and you're in a traditional clinic, don't take it the wrong way. I worked in traditional clinic myself, and it's just that they're not set up for that.

Usually like the equipment isn't there. The time is not there for them to be able to work with somebody. The technology isn't there for them to be able to manage these people remotely. Like you're talking about. It's just not set up for that versus. I used to always try to explain to people. I was like, you go traditional clinic, have you ever been to a PT clinic is what I usually ask, right?

Okay, what's your experience with that? I don't know. It's a lot of band exercises and some handouts and a bunch of old people. Okay. That's not our clinic. And I always tell them imagine a strength [00:30:00] coach and a clinician had a baby. That's our people. They are hybrids.

They understand. How to get people back to sport, how to get people healthy and get them out of a pain state, but also teach them how to keep, their injury that way we're educating them on it just as much as anything else. And, the really the big differentiator in a lot of ways is, you're talking to somebody that can help you right now.

And if I could help you and take your insurance, I would do it. But in order for me to really work the way you deserve, I can't, and it's not your fault. It's not my fault. It's just insurance sucks. And I think everybody hates it, right? So now the bad guy's insurance, not me, not you. And it used to be that I was the bad guy.

You're like, oh, you don't take my insurance? What's up with that? It's what do you know about insurance? It's it sucks. And it's gotten worse. So it's actually getting easier to have these conversations. But I think the other thing, and this is for me, if I get pushback from somebody, and the price point for what you're talking about, way easier to sell a 50 evaluation, just 50 bucks, come in.

We'll check it out. It, I guarantee you, it'll be the best [00:31:00] 50 you've ever spent on your body. But, so on a 250 eval, like what we did is very different. And what I would get with pushback, it's yeah, I don't know. I'm not, I don't know if that's, it seems like a lot.

And so you mind if I ask you a question, so always I would try to get permission, right? So permission based, The base question for sales, yeah, sure. If you get back to playing soccer and you know exactly what's going on your knee, and this is not something that's, sticks around or stops you from doing this ever again, are you going to care if you have to pay out of pocket for it?

And just leave it and most of them be like, no, like I wouldn't, but I, for them, then it's can you, are you sure this is going to work? It's listen, we have a track rate of working with hundreds of people just like yourself in the community, thousands with our practice at a certain point we're really good at what we do.

Look at all our Google reviews. So they're there for a reason and if after this evaluation, it's just evaluation. If we feel like we can't help you, we're going to send you the right person because there might be something more going on. And if we [00:32:00] rule that out, so our rule was if somebody couldn't be helped in our clinic, we didn't charge them for the evaluation.

So if you come in and I got to send you to ortho or to get imaging or whatever else, I think it might be something systemic or whatever. You're not paying for that evaluation. We want to just send you the right place and we're not the right place for you. So that was something for us. It was always like, it's risk free in a lot of ways.

If you don't belong here, we're going to send you the right place with a vetted referral. And if you do, and we're going to, you can see what the rest of that looks like. If you decide that you want to commit to a plan of care, cool. But just getting them in the door, that one little sticking point.

That can be challenging. So how often did you have questions that you were answering about like the details of insurance? Like you try to shy away from being like in the nitty gritty of super bills and deductibles and all that stuff or did you get into that good bit?

Jeremy: It depends on the person like if people are want to talk about insurance and how it works I'm more than happy to chat with them about that.

Most people. And again, that kind of like how you guys position it to, I think the 50 evaluation and this kind of risk free evaluation to if you can position it like that. Most people won't [00:33:00] have any insurance questions. But if we go down that insurance route and we start talking about that, I same thing, I flip it back to them of do you know what your insurance coverage looks like?

I know you have the script, but what is your out of pocket going to look like? Most people are like, I have no idea because nobody has any idea how much it's actually going to cost them or what their actual deductibles look like or anything like that. And then I kind of phrase that back to this is exactly why we don't take insurance because it's a crapshoot and we've had people that have told us horror stories where they paid their 50 copay for 12 sessions and then they got hit with a thousand dollar bill six months later and they, the, we hear those stories all the time.

So I again, tell that story. We offer a service, which I think a lot of clinics do as well. There's a lot loads of different software platforms out there. But I tell people before you come in, you're going to get a form to fill out, put your insurance [00:34:00] information in there and we run their insurance for them.

We use a program called reimbursify. I always again, preface this to have this is just going to give us a snapshot. I'm not guaranteeing that this is going to be a hundred percent accurate because again, we have no idea what this looks like and insurance are super they're super hidden about their cost and we don't really know, but we're going to try to at least give you an idea of, what your out of pocket costs would look like going in network and what your added network benefits look like.

And then I always phrase that as. We'll have that information for you at the evaluation. Your PT will talk you through what that'll look like. Just make sure you fill out that form beforehand. So in their minds, they're like, okay, cool. Like they're going to have my insurance info. We're super lucky in Boston.

A lot of people have really good out of network benefits. We kind of frame that to them of, we'll give you a super bill. That's totally fine. You submit that you do all that back end work. If you're really cost conscience and you want to get some [00:35:00] reimbursement. We've got a really good track record of patients getting money back.

Again, this is not something I can guarantee, but we're going to help you do whatever we can to help you get some money back. And if that's giving you a super bill, what every month, we're more than happy to do that. That's part of the session cost. And that just usually that right there, just like talking about that with people and almost getting them to realize I have no idea what my insurance coverage looks like, especially for P.

T. They're like, okay, if you can get me in tomorrow let's just do it. And. I, again, I frame it as, we'll take care of it for you. We'll look up your benefits. You don't have to sit on the phone with blue cross for two hours, trying to talk to a human and just to verify your benefits.

So again, I'm just value stacking up. Hey, we're going to do all this stuff for you. I talked about the cash service and all of these things that we do. We're also going to try to handle some of this insurance confusion that you might have so that when you come in for the evaluation, you're going to have a super clear picture of what this looks like.

I think just easing people's concerns there is really what you're trying to do.

Danny: Transparency [00:36:00] is a huge selling factor too. I would assume lots of people that I talked to, if I asked him have you ever had a, you've got a medical bill that came in after the fact, it was like way more than you thought, and most people are like, yeah, that sucks.

This happened to Ashley and I on a couple of occasions, like she had to have a minor surgery. And we, I don't know what we paid whatever we thought we were paying at the time. And then we get a bill. It was like a few thousand dollars. After the fact and it was so confusing because it's like you're deductible, but then it's your out of pocket max And then that's per individual and there's other factors associated with the two Percentage that they're going to reimburse and all that and it's literally like doing a freaking calculus equation Like no one understands it.

So but just asking somebody like you ever get a bill like after the fact and they're like, oh, yeah It sucks. It's that's never gonna happen with us. You know exactly what you're paying us It's totally Transparent it's the most, transparent way in which you're going to have a healthcare interaction that you can possibly get, right.

And I think the other thing too is, [00:37:00] Really building your people up look, these are amazing clinicians. These are the kind of people that they wouldn't take a job in a regular clinic because they can't work with people for in the way that they want. And they want to really help people get the outcome they want just as much as you want to, these are unicorns that you're going to get a chance to work with.

And once you get a chance to actually work with them to see what we're talking about, so I think really validating your staff, validating the fact that it's transparent. They're not going to get. Something, in the mail a couple months later for thousands of dollars and then sit on the phone trying to figure out what the heck this is all about.

What a huge waste of time, right? It's literally just hey, transaction is done. We're good. Nothing after that. Except for us helping you. That's it. And I do like the scarcity of the evaluations. I think that's really good. 1 of the mistakes that I see people make is they don't schedule.

The meeting from the meeting, right? So the call that you're on get one schedule. Even if there's some other things you have to figure out in between, if you don't do that, the [00:38:00] drop off is big. And that's going to really hurt your practice. Because the key with this is we're just trying to let's say that, let's say you talk to 20 people a month and you can go from converting 50 percent to 80%.

So now you're adding six more people to your practice per month. 72 people a year to your practice like that is a massive amount, not just on the front end, but then the back end, as well as all the people that they know that they may refer to your practice when you really look at the net effect of that.

It's extreme and it's a, there's a reason why we drill on this stuff so much and why you develop mini courses and why we have to talk to people about this, especially if you want to run ads, because if on a difficulty level, a referral is it's like a two out of 10 super easy. One being the easiest, a cold traffic, searching for something on Google or Facebook, whatever it's way harder. It's six, sometimes [00:39:00] more depending on the person, but it's going to be a lot harder. So your conversion percentage is going to be a lot lower without them. So all this stuff is super, super helpful. What would you say with staff, like having these conversations, how long do you feel like it takes for them to be pretty, pretty decent at, being able to have somebody in this discovery phase that moves over to want to come in for a visit?

Jeremy: Yeah, I just I've stopped taking discovery calls from my clinic and I, that's basically the, that was the start of this course that I put together because I was putting training materials together for her. And, I'm lucky in the sense that she's been a PT with me for 3 years. She's had this conversation with people during the evaluation process for the last 3 years.

She converts packages at 90%. She can talk to these objections. As soon as, she listened to some of the discovery calls that I've taken gone through the script that I've put together she's converting at 85 percent as well. That took about. Maybe 2 weeks worth of her taking [00:40:00] discovery calls for me to really feel comfortable to say hey, I don't need to do this anymore.

Again as long as you hit these parts here, and you follow this almost rubric that we put together. It becomes very easy because you're positioning your service as a solve for what they're dealing with. And you talk about transparency to, I think it's important to know I talked to them about the packages on that phone call and break that down and say, hey, we've got options.

We've got a 10, 15 or 24 pack. Based on what we find during that evaluation, we'll figure out what package is right for you based on what you're dealing with now and what you want to get back to that. I think 2, it's most people end up going with the 15 pack. We do payment plans, you're paying for 5 sessions at a time.

It just makes the financial burden a little bit easier for you, but that that was one of the big things that I trained my staff member on was like, let these people know that most people are doing 15 sessions. And if, because people want to do the same thing that other [00:41:00] people are doing, they don't want to do less.

They don't want to do more. If they're like, Oh, most people are doing 15 that's, in the back of their mind, I'm probably going to have to do 15. It sounds like it's going to be about a thousand dollars a month. That makes sense. Like I can swing that. So that makes the evaluation that much easier as well.

So they're not getting that package sheet during the eval for the first time and being like, Oh man, like this is not what I was expecting. So shying away from that was one of the big things that I had to train my staff member on was shying away from being transparent about. What our actual costs are, because if we're going to do that 50 valuation, they need to know that it's going to be a fair amount more per session after that.

But if we're doing all the value stacking or positioning it properly, it shouldn't be a big deal. I think if you're training another staff member up that has experience as a PT, Again, you have that authority of Oh man, I'm talking to a physical therapist on the phone. This might be the PT that I'm going to see that right there holds its weight.

If you're training an admin [00:42:00] or, another staff member to do it, it's going to take a lot longer than that.

Danny: Yeah, and I really like that because it's pre it's a concept is called pre framing. So you can do this with your family. You can do this with, calls like this. My daughter does this to me constantly.

She I did this little sales training with my kids when they were trying to sell LaCroix, like sparkling waters across the street. We live across the street from a school and my kids just got this idea that they were going to go and sell this weekend. They had some sort of like teachers training thing.

So they go over there and I'm like, okay, listen, here's some basic sales psychology, whatever, here's how you anyway, I talked to him about pre framing, just oh, my gosh, it's hot out here. And man, it would be great to have a whole drink of water and.

And so my daughter took this to heart and now she does to me all the time and I laugh out loud. I know what she's doing, but I like to reward it too. So it's like perpetually getting more and more [00:43:00] problematic. In fact, actually, they sold a lot of LaCroix's and my son figured out that if he told people that it was for a fundraiser.

And didn't tell them what it was for, that they were, they would give him more money. So they're giving like 10 for LaCroix. So they had to go back and actually give money back to people. So anyway, when we look at pre framing, this is super powerful. If you can say Hey, I, this is what our eval looks like.

Most people that we work with that are in similar boat as you, they're looking at. Probably three months of work with us about, 10 to 15 visits. Most people end up going with a 10 visit package that we have. And over the course of that, we're able to resolve the injury, get you back to what you're wanting to do and teach you how to keep it that way forever with all the things that we do.

And we add in, they're all part of the cost with us. And it's going to be anywhere between this amount per session, this amount per session, or in your case, if you're spreading it out over those months, anywhere between 800 and 1, 000 a month for the months that we're working with you and [00:44:00] we can get into all that because we don't really know what's appropriate for you until we check it out.

And that's what we'll do on Tuesday. But if you're not doing that, at least letting people know that they have those options, you're setting your staff up for a big surprise for those people, and they don't have any perspective. So you're better off to do that. And I think people feel maybe they're going to lose a sale.

They're like, oh, if I say what it costs, But honestly, it's how you say it, too You know, I think about all these bad experiences that i've had with health care. Like I had to go to a dermatologist once since i've been out of the military and I just pay out of pocket went to this dermatologist And dude, I was there for five minutes turns out my foot got really cold while I was snowboarding It turned red for two weeks Hasn't had a problem since she had to look up what it's called on Google, sitting there while I'm there, I'm in her office for five, maybe six minutes, 400, 400 bucks.

And I'm like, this is crazy. Like we're totally undercharging. I'm way better than this. It's like the conviction you have with people makes [00:45:00] a big difference in how you come across on the phone, so if you feel uncomfortable with money and you're skirting around that, or you sound different when you talk about it.

People can't tell the difference between, oh, they're nervous or why are they nervous? This just got weird. Something wrong. Are they like scamming me? Is this, like something's changed. So if you don't have confidence and conviction around you talking to people about the value you provide for the service that you have and that's a steal, like they're going to feel that and they're less likely to want to come in.

And as sad as it is to say that the people that are legitimately Like the most nervous, they tend to come off in a way that just seems less professional and people don't want to work with those people versus people. They can just fake it till they make it. They actually do better because they people feel that and they feel more confident with that provider, even if they have less of a skill set, which in some cases is true.

Jeremy: Totally. And I think that's where one of the big like hiccups that I start seeing is One of the, maybe it's not an objection, but one of the questions that come up in that [00:46:00] sales process is after I map out the sessions and these are the options that we have, I'll always get how many set with this knee injury, how many sessions do you think that I'm going to need for that?

And I think it's really easy to fumble your words there and be like yes, usually it's three, but then we got to go to the training and that's where you start to. Sound like you don't know what you're doing basically. And I punt that question almost immediately. I'm like, it's super hard for me to say over the phone.

There's no possible way that I'm going to be able to give you a clear answer on that. That's why the evaluation is so important and you need to come in for that evaluation. So you're now like doubling down on, Hey, you've got to come in. I'm not going to be able to solve anything for you on the phone.

Come in for that evaluation. That's why this is so important. We're going to be able to understand. Is it actually your knee or what's going on? Or, how do we solve this for the bigger picture? And if you again, I think this is where the script comes into play, because you can have conviction because, exactly what you should say for his objection and that becomes a really big part [00:47:00] of it to just the confidence behind it.

You want people to, and I think it's very easy for us, even in the evaluation, it's the person you're talking to on the phone has no idea anything about physical therapy, nevermind like how to solve a knee injury. If you can confidently give them next steps, even if that's just the evaluation, that's going to be way more than they're going to get anywhere else.

Danny: Listen, people want Direction like they want to talk to somebody like think about this way it do you want to go to a surgeon that's could do this or maybe that and this is a possibility too And I'm really not sure or do you want to go to a surgeon? That's like I could do this surgery in my sleep.

I've done thousands of these If you work with me, we're going to square this away. Sound good? When do you want to get started, right? Which one do you want to work with? Assuming you need surgery, right? Let's caveat that. But do you want to work with somebody that is going to tell you what to do next?

And I think we just don't [00:48:00] have perspective for that. Because we do know what to do, and that is something that most people have no idea what to do. I'm going on this camping trip, and there's a lady, and she's she lives in my neighborhood, and she's one of my friend's neighbors that's coming, and this lady has like a disc problem, right?

And, She I know she knows I'm going to be there. So I'm going to be evaluating a disc issue. When I there and like my friends Hey, what should she do? And I told him the same thing. It's dude, that'd be like asking a mechanic through another person about a weird noise in a car.

Like they can't tell you. If they tell you that who knows if they're right or not, like you got to see it right in person. And so being able to actually get that person. In person, move them over and then give them some definitive guidelines on what to do and be confident in your decision of what you say.

This is why I think it's hard for junior clinicians to go into businesses like this. They don't have conviction in their own skillset. They don't feel confident. They didn't get enough reps where they feel confident that they know what to do with [00:49:00] somebody. And they don't want to do the wrong thing, especially if somebody's paying them out of pocket.

I feel like they feel more pressure. If that's you get better at being a clinician first then go do your own thing And if you feel like you're a really good clinician, then be a good clinician be confident in your skill set don't be arrogant like don't be dangerous with people make sure you follow all The systemic red flags and look for the right things and ask the right questions and all that and refer out when necessary But if they belong in your office Fucking treat like they belong in your office.

Be the person that they need because they don't know what to do. And there's so much confusing information. Keep that in mind. I mean for god's sakes like I don't know if you've ever seen The meme where it's like somebody's like looking for their diagnosis on WebMD and just everything ends in cancer or like death, it's just like there's such bad information out there.

Everything ends in surgery or, something awful and they don't even know what they're looking at. So it's dude, stop looking at all this shit. Look at me. I know what I'm talking about. Here's what we're going to do. I got you. We work with lots of people like this. Think about the level of calmness you're going to give that person.

Just now they don't have to search anymore. [00:50:00] They found the right person. So be that person for people don't be wishy washy about stuff, be confident what you're going to say do a thorough examination Give them what they need recommend that and then let them make a decision as an adult like don't talk them out of a sale Because you're uncomfortable with money.

That's the biggest thing that I see. People are so uncomfortable with money, and they're uncomfortable with taking money for something they'd probably do for free, that they become very sketchy about talking about that, and it feels weird to that person. And that pushes them away. And it's sad because they really can help people, but they just don't understand that they are putting off something that is Repelling to that person because of a lack of conviction and confidence in their own skill set and comfort level with charging what they should.

Totally. Yeah.

Jeremy: And I think that's one of the reasons why my staff member has been able to take on the discovery calls is because she's gone through the. Sales psychology training and, why do people buy training and you've got to have that foundation 1st, certainly [00:51:00] you've got to you've got to have your reps there.

You've got to understand how to talk to people, figure out why they're calling in. And, I think like you said, and I think it relates to the timing of all this stuff is if you're very succinct on what the next step should be, like, here's what you need to do next and getting back to, I think, again, the most important part of all this stuff is if you can get that person in the next 72 hours, then it's going to make their decision that much easier to come in.

It's they just had this awesome phone call. You described exactly what's going to happen. You've mapped out the next 3 months already, barring whatever they find during that evaluation. Yeah. I always frame it as, we've got these available appointments in the next three days.

Usually what I tell people to do is grab what other evaluation you can. If you decide to do a plan of care moving forward, you'll book out the days and times that work for you. Our PTs are in before work, they're after work. You'll be able to grab that Tuesday morning at 7 a. m. slot moving forward. But [00:52:00] that evaluation, we've got limited slots for these.

So grab one of these, just make it work, and then you can book out whatever days and times are going to work best for you. That really converts really well for people and It's true to what we do as well. We're not, I'm not being, shy about that. It's just, and that is like actually what they should do as well of they should come in for that evaluation ASAP.

Then we can plan it out around your schedule. That really, again, just lowers people's like hesitation on moving forward.

Danny: Oh yeah. I love it. Dude, move shit around, take care of yourself. Make this a priority. This isn't going away. Obviously most people aren't calling you right after something happens anyway.

It's been weeks, maybe months. And it's you think you're going to wake up tomorrow and this is going to go away. Like it's not. And the sooner you start to work on this, the better it's going to get, that, and the sooner you're going to be able to get back to whatever it is they told us that they want to be able to do.

And that's the truth. You're right. This isn't there's a fine balance between understanding sales. And ethically selling to [00:53:00] people because we have to know how to sell, but we also have to have an, an ethical guideline of what we're willing to say and not say I'm not trying to scare anybody into making a decision.

I'm not trying to pressure anybody, to make a decision. I just want to give them, an opportunity to make an informed decision and also not let them off the phone without making a decision. It's either. Are we the right fit for you? Does it sound like we're the right fit for you or not?

If so, let's at least schedule evaluation. If not, that's fine. There's any number of in network practices that you might want to go to that you can go to and start to get some help there. And that's fine too. But I don't, this ambiguous man, I got to think about it, kind of thing.

And for me, I'm just like, yeah, that's fine. Okay. What do you want to, what questions do you have? I'm here right now. I'm not the easiest person to get in touch with. We're busy helping people like yourself. What questions do you have? What do you need to think through? Let's, let's talk about it right now.

Versus just letting somebody, if you let somebody off the phone without making a decision, the likelihood that they actually come back and schedule a visit is pretty high. [00:54:00] Very low. It's probably 10%. So you're better off if you're going to have any sort of objection handling. It's literally not necessarily all the things we talked about.

It's indecision for people I find is probably the hardest thing. And I just want them to make a decision. What are we doing? We're either going to get you in or we're not like, are we the right fit? Cool. If we are, man, 10 and literally give them an option. I love that you got to give them the option and have them make the decision.

That's it. And if you can do that, you're going to convert really high. And this is an incredibly important skill. Like we said it's really, nice of Jeremy to have this this course put together. Like I said, use this to train staff member that took over running calls for his schedule, this type of training is something that we have and do all the time in the mastermind as well, and it's something that is just so important.

It's something that is such a pivotal skill for you to be able to do as the owner or your staff. So if you're listening to this on the podcast make sure you go to the patch system. com forward slash phone sales course. That's where this course is at. I'm going to upload this into the Facebook [00:55:00] group as well.

And we'll drop the link in there. If you have any questions, you can leave a question in there and we'll make sure to get back to you. Jeremy, is there anything you want to leave people with before we end the podcast and then go ahead and move on to, transition this to the Facebook group.

Yeah, I think the

Jeremy: biggest thing that I've seen inside of patch when people go from, converting on the phone from, 50 or 60 percent to 80, 85 percent all of a sudden, magically their other staff PT schedule is full and we haven't changed. The amount of leads that came in the door, we haven't changed anything about their marketing.

All we're doing is just converting better on the phone. If you're struggling to get another staff members schedule full, or you're looking to hire another PT member or anything like that. That's why this is so important. If you could just fix this one thing, you're going to have much more predictability with your business.

You're going to scale and grow much more predictable. And it's just one of those unlocks where, again, if you're going to try to scale a business, you've [00:56:00] got to do this properly.

Danny: Yeah. And just remember it's just math. Okay. You can either stay at 50%. So let's say you have 20 conversations.

And you convert it 50%. So 10 people are coming in. So if you want to get to 20, that means you have to have 40 conversations to get to 20 versus if you convert at 90%, then that means you need to get to 25 calls and you're there, right? 24 calls. You're there. So you don't have to get the 40 calls to get the same net number of people that are coming in.

Like this is such an important concept to understand because you can either play the volume game. I want to have as many calls as I could possibly get, but I'm going to have a low throughput or I want to have the highest throughput I possibly can so I can have fewer calls because we all know getting those calls, getting those contact requests, getting those leads.

It is hard, but we don't need that many, especially if we're super, super efficient on the phone. And then we look at, all right, cool. How many leads do we have? What's our percentage there? This gives us these sort of levers that we [00:57:00] can pull to improve different component pieces of the business that eventually lead to, the net effect of what that gross and net revenue is going to be and the volume of your clinic.

So we get more leads in, but you suck at conversion. We got to adjust that. We've got to fix that first. So get more leads, great conversion. Now it comes over to eval to plan of care. What's your close percentage of moving somebody into a plan of care from plan of care, we want to see if that's not good.

And then we've got to train our staff up on that. That gets better. So now we've got good lead quality coming through. We've got high close or close percentage on the discovery call, high close percentage on the plan of care. Now it's what percentage of those people are moving over to ongoing services of some sort.

It's a really low percentage. All right, cool. Now we have to do training on this and it's just little things you can start to chip away at and make sure that the whole system is working well together and you're not having. Trying to fill up a bucket with a bunch of holes in it, which is what most people are doing.

And the more you can step back as a business owner and just take your freaking PT hat off for a second and just put your arithmetic hat on like basic math. I'm talking [00:58:00] elementary school math. That's all this is just basic math. And then you can start to reverse engineer. What problems you're having, assuming you're tracking any of this stuff in the first place, which is probably the bigger problem that we, would need to address.

And honestly, that's where somebody like Jeremy comes in with what he's doing with patch and being able to have predictability in the actual numbers around all of the different component drop off points that we see. Jeremy, if somebody is interested in learning more about Patch and what you guys are doing at Patch for these cash based practices, where can they go?

Number one, and then maybe just give a brief, example or idea of what do you actually do? Besides obviously be a sales ninja.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think the, what you just said there is exactly what we do and where we see the best results with businesses inside a patch. There's a reason why we called this company patch is because when we look at your business as a bucket and figure out where those holes are, when somebody is moving through your sales pipeline and we say, people aren't converting on the phone, let's.

Do [00:59:00] some training and quite literally patch that up so that people are moving better through that pipeline. So that's where we see the best results is just figuring out your business systems and we're not even talking about generating leads at that point. So that's where we get into CRM building.

We do Jen free marketing side of things. We look at your website to make sure that's optimized and there's support along the way with building all of these business systems. So you know what's actually going on. And then, you can check out the patch system dot com. That's where, you can find a little bit more information about us.

I'm posting a lot of stuff on Instagram as well. Just underscore Jeremy DuPont and yeah, there's gonna be loads more content coming, so I'm excited about it.

Danny: All right. I hope you guys take a lot away from this training. This is one that I would. Listen to a couple times, definitely go get the course.

If you want to just have a more robust training system within your own business and use a framework that really converts really well go sign up for that. Start [01:00:00] chipping away at things and get some practice in testing these things out. Like this is something you're going to have to iterate over, a period of, Weeks, sometimes months to really get comfortable with how you're having these conversations, but such a pivotal skill.

I hope that this really helps your business. I know how much this can hinder people and their businesses from what we see, even people that come into PT biz and all of a sudden they're like, Oh my God, like I've maxed out my schedule and I didn't change anything. It's yeah, it's because you started to like actually.

Have some frameworks around what you're doing and you're not having all this drop off from preexisting lead generation that you have, and it's just like a waste, so it's a really important skill. And I appreciate you sharing this. So as always, thanks so much for listening to the podcast.

I hope you guys really liked this one and we'll catch you next week.

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