E774 | Personal Planning and Business Partners With Jerred Moon

The Power of Planning in Business and Life

When it comes to success, intentional planning is often the game-changer. On a recent episode of the PT Entrepreneur Podcast, Doc Danny sat down with his business partner, Jerred Moon, to unpack the importance of planning—not just in business, but in personal life as well.

Why Planning Matters

Jerred, who plays a key role in the operational and strategic side of PT Biz, shared his approach to setting and achieving meaningful goals. He emphasizes focusing on process goals over outcome goals. Why? Because while outcomes are the ultimate target, it’s the consistent, intentional steps along the way that create sustainable progress.

The Four F’s Framework

One of Jerred's go-to strategies for goal setting is the Four F’s: Faith, Family, Fitness, and Finance. These categories serve as guideposts for ensuring every aspect of life is intentional and aligned.

Jerred explained how each area contributes to overall balance:

• Faith: Whether it’s spirituality or a connection to something bigger, finding time to reflect matters.
• Family: Prioritizing relationships at home lays the foundation for everything else.
• Fitness: Staying active fuels energy and focus for both work and personal life.
• Finance: Taking control of your financial goals ensures peace of mind and long-term security.

Planning for Business Success

When it comes to business, Jerred and Danny also dive into how structured planning impacts growth. They discuss how the same intentionality that drives personal success applies to business—like identifying clear roles, building trust, and setting measurable milestones.

For those exploring partnerships, they emphasize the importance of aligning values, complementary skillsets, and shared trust. Jerred breaks it down into three roles every successful business needs:

1. The Architect: Visionary planning and strategy.
2. The Designer: Operational flow and systems.
3. The Decorator: Customer experience and aesthetics.

Earning vs. Being Given

Jerred also highlights why earning ownership or equity is far more valuable than being handed it. Whether in business or personal accomplishments, the pride and respect that come from working hard for something can’t be overstated.

Actionable Takeaways

1. Focus on the process: Instead of just aiming for the result, map out the daily and weekly habits that will lead you there.
2. Break it into categories: Use frameworks like the Four F’s to ensure you’re addressing all areas of life.
3. Assess your weak points: Identify where you’re struggling and lean into improving those areas.
4. Build trust in partnerships: Complementary skills, aligned values, and mutual respect are key.
5. Make it fun: Surround yourself with people you enjoy working with—it makes tackling challenges so much easier.

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] Hey, real quick, if you're serious about starting or growing your cash based practice, I want to formally invite you to go to Facebook and join our PT entrepreneurs Facebook group. This is a group of over 6, 000 providers all over the country. And it's a pretty amazing place to start to get involved in the conversation.

Hope to see you there soon. Hey, are you a physical therapist looking to leverage your skill set in a way that helps you create time and financial freedom for yourself and your family? If so, you're in the right spot. My name is Danny Matta and over the last 15 years I've done pretty much everything you can in the profession.

I've been a staff PT I've been an active duty military officer physical therapist. I've started my own cash practice. I've sold that cash practice And today my company physical therapy business helped over a thousand clinicians start growing scale their own cash practices So if this sounds like something you want to do listen up because i'm here to help you What's going on doc?

Danny here with the pg entrepreneur podcast and today I have one of my business partners is Jerred Moon Jerred is the one That most people actually don't know of the two. So Eve GG, who does a [00:01:00] lot of forward facing stuff within PT biz, a lot of coaching with the clients that we have.

And Jerred does a lot on the leadership side, but really he helps on the operations infrastructure back end of the business and a lot of acquisition as well. So you're not somebody that gets to be super forward facing in PT biz yet. You're quite forward facing in. Your own podcast and social media and all that.

It's always fun to get a chance to talk to you on this podcast and share a little bit about, your background, what you're doing. And but if people are interested, you have a great podcast and newsletter, your newsletter is fire. What's before we get into what we're gonna talk about, where do people would sign up for that?

Cause I think the newsletter is actually the best thing you do. No offense to everything else, but the newsletter is awesome.

Jerred: Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm glad to be here. I think people are starting to get you've had Jeremy on the podcast quite a bit. I think they're starting to get us confused.

Similar names, we're not all that much different, but yeah, so I do produce a lot of content. If you want to join the newsletter, you can go to my personal website, is where that's stuffed right now. So it's Jerred. com, J E R E D. com. If you spell it wrong, you'll end up buying some jewelry.

[00:02:00] If you spell it you'll find my kind of my personal brand website, and it's pretty easy to find the newsletter from there.

Danny: That's funny. Was that a hard domain to get? Or was it just nobody spells Jerred like this. This was

Jerred: it was in the middle. It was like, it was not, no one really supposed Jerred that way.

So it wasn't like, Crazy hard to get, but GoDaddy or like wherever you buy your domains, they know if it's like a short, simple domain, they just overcharge you. So I do think it was like some low four figure amount. Like I may have spent like a thousand bucks on it or something. Or a thousand bucks. I was like, it's my name.

I guess I try

Danny: to get my name. For a personal brand site. And there's another guy named Danny, I doubt he pronounces his last name the same way, Matei in San Antonio. And he owns a, it's like a ticket broker agency or something like that. And he bought it before, before I could, which, whatever, he beat me to it.

But I don't know, danny. com I think would be pretty freaking hard.

Jerred: That you would be. Yeah, that would be incredible. I don't think it's possible. Like when [00:03:00] I started doing more personal brand and producing more content on Instagram, I switched my handle. It's Jerred dot moon now, but I was like, I want just Jerred like the domain name, but there's some like professional bass fishermen.

Whose name is Jerred and he snagged that handle, whatever, 20 years ago or 10 years ago. And so I couldn't get it from him. So

Danny: the only hope you really have is to be super early to the next social media platform that people really adopt, which is almost like impossible to predict and just jump on that like really early.

And then you wait and hopefully that works out.

Jerred: Hopefully.

Danny: That's all you got. But today we're talking about planning. I'm actually going through some planning stuff this week. I'll do some prep stuff and then I'll sit down probably this weekend for a few hours, just like by myself and look through things and detail things out.

But one thing that I wanted to talk to you about is before we started working together, I did business planning. I thought I did business planning. But it wasn't nearly as effective as what we go through. And then on the [00:04:00] personal side to, I've taken elements of things from burst from business planning to personal planning and as I've had conversations with people.

About personal stuff like personal business planning. It doesn't seem like that's very common. Business planning seems very common But personal goal setting and all that is not so You know, that's what I want to chat about today because I know you do a lot of this and you're very organized about how you actually set these things up and I want to start with personal planning first, like what is your general philosophy to Personal planning like you take it very seriously.

Do you try to set a couple? Goals and different sort of buckets. What's your approach to that?

Jerred: Yeah, I think it's shaped and changed a lot over the years. I used to pull up the calendar for the next year and I want to put like. If I was doing some sort of fitness event, I'd want to put those things on there, traveling with family.

Like I would try and do stuff like that. And I still do some of those things, but really what I look at more now is just like I do in business, I look at data and I'm like, am I [00:05:00] as good as I think that I am, it's and so I go back and look at. Things cause I, I track a lot of things now.

So that involves you operationalizing your life. If we could call it that, and so I'll look at things like, a goal of mine next year is I want to average, and this is just like a small thing for personal planning, but I think it's a concrete example.

It's I want to average 15, 000 steps a day. Cause I'm always wearing a Garmin watch and I just want more movement throughout my day. That's the real goal. It's not, has nothing to do with a step goal. Cause I train, like I work out six, seven days a week pretty consistently. So that's not what this is.

This is cause like I can go do an incredible, incredibly hard hour and a half strength training session and I could still end the day with 5, 000 steps. Like it's just not getting enough movement in throughout my day. And so that's a big thing I want to focus on coming up. And so I look back and I'm like, Oh, what do I think my step is?

And I guess then, but then Garmin will just tell me, like the data will tell me, no shot. It doesn't have to be Garmin. There's so many things that can track these things. So I'll go [00:06:00] back. I'll look at the data and be like, okay, where was the average and where do I want it to be?

Cause on that same note, I don't want to set something that's so unrealistic that I can't achieve it. And so 15, 000 is where I want to shoot for 2025, but it's goes back and looking at What have you done so far? How much of an increase would this be? And then it's starting to try and build things into my life that are going to support that goal.

Some of the things that I've done, you've seen me do it. Like I got a walking pad for my desk so I can walk during meetings. I've got a dog that I now walk twice a day. And I'll be running with her once she's old enough to run. And all of these things were intentional. Things that I've set up in my life to force me into what I've said that I want it, right?

It's layered accountability to be able to do these things rolling into 2025. So it's really looking at like the past data of my life and then trying to say, okay, what do I want to do moving forward? And I do that in a lot of different areas of life. That was just like one small example.

Like I'm tracking a lot of different stuff in my personal life. And that helps me [00:07:00] set better goals when I go into a new year.

Danny: Yeah. And I think data is important. It's funny. The carryover from planning for a business into personal life seems, outside looking in, I wouldn't have thought, Oh, this is like so similar.

But there's so many similarities and once you can build a skill of one, and this is what's interesting for business owners in particular is maybe you have done business planning, we'll talk about how we like to look at the business planning side of things as well, but. Yeah.

Once I started doing more business planning, it became much easier for me to start to plan personal goals for the year. And even with my kids, like we always, we haven't done it yet. We'll probably do this weekend with them as well, but I already have them like, Hey thinking about hey, I want you to think about one personal one physical goal and one intellectual goal That you would like to achieve next year and then Like we just won't let him off the hook that easy with stuff So like my son is like I would like to I would like to put on some muscle, right?

He's about to turn 13. He's like I want to put on some muscle and i'm like, all right, cool, man We got a garage gym like let's roll, self motivated want to do that I'm not gonna try to [00:08:00] make you train because they'll just fall off But, we all know that you can just, you can't just work out in isolation and that's the only thing.

So we sat down and we're like, okay that means you got to start tracking how much food you're taking, how much protein in particular you're getting. And he's not the biggest eater in the world anyway. It's yes, you may have this bigger goal, but when you chunk it down to the things you want to track, so maybe it's we lift weights three days a week, you get X amount of, grams of protein a day.

You're making sure you get this much sleep per night. These are things that we can track on a weekly, monthly basis, and then we can start to get some data initially, really, we'll probably just weigh him and he's going to get bigger anyway, so he's going to hit his goal. But as long as he does these things and he sees the weight going up what does he care?

Like that but that's like for a lot of people, they have this bigger goal and they can back into data that they can track. So I would say businesses where we've pretty much honed that in, but on the personal side, that's where most people struggle. And. For you are there certain buckets that you try to break this down into?

And if so, how many different buckets on the personal side do you [00:09:00] think are feasible for people to actually be able to track and make improvements? And

Jerred: yeah, I think everybody, and we walk people through this on the, in our business planning too, is like some of the personal side of that spiritual, financial, all these kinds of things, but something that's just like foundational to our family.

And What I teach them, things that we go over the four F's. So faith, family, fitness is fitness and finance. Those are the four F's that we like. Emily and I really harp on with the family. You ask any of my kids, what the four F's are, they're going to know what those things are. And so that's typically where I try to establish my, my goals overall, and I really nothing, almost nothing is an outcome goal.

It almost everything is a process goal. And I always explain that to people too, because people might be like, I want. A good marriage or a better marriage or whatever. Let's just say it's a marriage goal. You don't achieve that, right? That's an unachievable goal. You can't just go, yep. Good marriage check.

Let's go do something else, right? It's a, it's just an ongoing process [00:10:00] for the entirety of your marriage, right? So you really just have to establish what the process is. In your relationship to maintain a good marriage or to get to a good marriage, then maintain a good marriage. So it just has to always be there.

It's something that can't fall off. You can't move on from it. And so I think establishing a process goal. So that's focusing on the daily, the weekly, the monthly efforts as opposed to the one thing that you want. In my personal life, that's where I'd say there's a big difference. In the two, because business, there's definitely process goals, but you're really chasing an outcome.

Like it might be certain income, certain profit, like whatever. And then it's okay, what process can we get to get there? And in. My personal life. It's way more process a lot less outcome.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. And that's like that I think that's the key of all of it is if you at least take the time to Sit down and try to think through what things need to change for you to achieve the thing you're trying To actually have the outcome, you know end up being that's 80% of it.

Like legitimately, [00:11:00] just putting the time in to think through that is huge. And then all of a sudden ob obviously you have to implement on that. And it's funny, like I have a similar thing with four Fs, but it's finance, fitness, family, fun and so like slightly different, but a lot of Fs as well.

We don't need

Jerred: any fun. It is like you do that.

Danny: I'm kidding. I've changed. I tell you what, I've changed a lot on that that one area in particular. Yeah. Because one thing I realized, and I don't know if you have this, if you've noticed the same thing, just growing up in a military family, like I do not have a deep root sort of system of friends and just like just network that is outside.

Like I moved to Atlanta in 2014. This is the longest I've been. Anywhere, like by a long shot. So it's interesting now for me to know people for more than three years. Like I've, I've known you and Eve for more than three years. And prior to 2014, there's not a lot of people that I knew more than three years.

So there are the fun side of things, which is interesting. Fun usually happens. [00:12:00] With other people, there's plenty of things we can do that are fun But but to have you know actual like friends that you can do stuff with It's something I've taken for granted for a very long time, And I would say in this was two years ago when I was doing when I was doing My business planning or my personal planning stuff I would go through this exercise in a group that I was in and one of the 1 of the areas they, they basically break it into 8 buckets.

It's health, nutrition, lifestyle and adventure, which they put in the same one, family finances spiritual, personal growth, relationships. And tribe, right? So like your relationships, that's like your significant other. If you have one and then tribe or environment, you want to think of it that way is like non family people.

And as I was going through this, I realized I don't have a lot. Like I didn't have anything to really put in [00:13:00] this at all. And you're supposed to put four goals in each one of them. I couldn't come up with one. I was like, this is a so I think one of the things that I would say when you're looking at personal or business, if you really sit down and you can break down these variables that maybe you're trying to improve, if there's one that you're like I'm like a fucking one out of 10 on this if you really think of the net effect, you're going from like an eight out of 10 to a nine out of 10 in one bucket, it's not nearly as significant as going from a one to like a five.

And maybe that still isn't great, but you've made a heck of a lot more progress relatively in comparison. So I've also, I feel like I've noticed that this is an area I'm not like alone in this in terms of that area of people's life, I think we put on the back burner because of family, because of business, because of all these other things, we're very busy.

And two years ago, I made an intentional effort to really try to improve that. And I can't actually describe how beneficial that's been for me, but it's been. Amazing, like stress levels, enjoyment of like things outside of work [00:14:00] and normal things that I would spend a lot of time on. Yeah, that fun bucket to me is just it's the biggest one that I've worked on.

It may not be the primary one you to work on. If listen, if your relationship with your spouse sucks, No business working on fun and friends outside. Like you should really probably focus on that main core relationship. But if not, then like the friend side is big. How do you feel about that one?

Because I feel like you're a bit more introverted than I am. I'm a bit more extroverted, but especially other male friends that you can get together with and do something with that, that, I don't know. That's a pretty rare thing in my life. It had been. And I feel like the more people I talk to about that, the more they're like, yeah, I don't really do anything outside of work and family.

It's just by myself.

Jerred: Yeah, I think it's really important. Emily and I actually talk about this all the time and a lot more recently because another thing that I think happens is you and I have similarly aged children and you go through the thick of it when they're younger.

And to be honest, there's not really time for friends and honest, there's just not, and then you compound what we both [00:15:00] did at the same time, which is. We're building a business and we have young children. There's no time for anything at that point. And so you go through this, if you're in that similar bucket, like anyone listening to this, just know that you might not be able to really.

Have friends, as, as crazy as that sounds, it's just if you put in the amount of time and attention that's required on your kids, when they're those young ages, and then also what's required to build a business, you just might not have time for any friends. And so it's not an introvert who doesn't want friends or like anything like that.

It's just this, you realistically don't have a time for it, but then you come out and I feel like Emily and I just now have realized that over, let's say the last one to two years that we're like. Okay, like we have a little bit of breathing room here. Like our kids are a little bit more self sufficient and we can actually go to dinner with friends.

And so now we're trying to be way more intentional with those things. And I do think it's incredibly important because I don't, I'm not big on having a lot of friends, but two or three [00:16:00] relationships that I'm like, really honed in on, and like trying to actually do fun things with whether you're scheduling, like going to see a comedian or a concert or a combination and not just doing those things like you and your wife, like trying to do that with other people who you enjoy being around.

I think those things are really important. It's something that's been severely lacking, like I said, but we've actually become very aware of it recently. And we're like, we got to try to, we got to reverse course here and try to, build some relationships. And we've been lucky enough to do that with a, one to two families here.

But the only reason that even happened initially was because our kids lined up in the same things and we have to like each other. And so that, that has worked out in several instances, but I think it's incredibly important. Even if you look at studies on living longer, that's one of the biggest things is like your tribe, like your community, you're the people you're around. Like you can't just have a dog and sit on a porch and do nothing. Like you're, you'll just, you'll die quicker if you do it that way. Totally. No, it's

Danny: a it's a. It's just different.

It's a different type of engagement. I was listening to a podcast and they were talking about like one of the fastest growing apps. And I believe this is in Europe. [00:17:00] Maybe here as well. But it was like this French guy came up with this app. It's basically like just an app to get strangers together for like dinner.

And it'll make a reservation for them. And it's I think it's five people at a time and they do some sort of background check and try to match people based on their personalities, their interests and all kinds of things. It's not a dating thing. This is legitimately just.

Friend, friend gathering. And and it's exploded. And I, I thought that was really interesting because it's definitely something, I don't know if this is, just in the U S maybe we bias. I feel like we bias family a lot here. That's one thing I think is very common.

I don't think that's actually just true here, but everywhere that I've been, I've definitely noticed that. But, getting together with friends at a certain point, it just seems like it's not, it's would you work more, get together with friends at a certain point in our life? Like we absolutely pick work over.

Anything else if you're trying to, get ahead, whether it's working somewhere, whether it's storing your own thing, whatever it is, I actually don't think that's that necessarily the case for a lot of other cultures from what I've seen, even recently with traveling and [00:18:00] having some conversations with people that are from other countries that.

I just found fascinating, and they're like, Oh no, I'm like, I'm with my, I said, we hang out with the boys like every Thursday night. I'm like, what? Once a week? Like you're doing something. What are you talking about? And it, for them, it's just be like, Oh man, it'd be crazy if we didn't, it's very different.

I think it's just one of those things that, Is a missing link for a lot of people. And it is interesting to think through that because in, and everybody has their weak link. And I think this is really if you're sitting here and you're like, okay what's the practical use of this?

What can I do tactically? And you can literally just give yourself some time to think about this. Like literally just go on a walk, don't listen to anything and just think about, okay, what areas of your life are maybe not you're not doing so hot. And you can take these ones that, that I brought up, or maybe it's fewer than these, but like health, if you're like, nah, I'm doing pretty good on health.

Okay, cool adventure. Are you like getting out in the world and experiencing new shit? Like when's the last time you actually did something new? And a friend of mine actually brought this up and he's yeah, I'm going to the Renaissance festival. I'm like, why are you going to a freaking Renaissance festival?[00:19:00]

And he's never been to one. So new thing to go to, we don't get many new things in our life at a certain age. And I was like, damn, that is a freaking smart way of looking at it. You're going to go eat a turkey leg at a Renaissance festival and watch grown men joust. That is what, that's what you're going to see.

Like I've been to a couple, that's not a new thing for me, but he's never been to one. And to intentionally think about like, when's the last time you did something new is we know cognitively, that's incredibly helpful for our brain for just like happiness For our our health in general.

And yet most of us don't experience something new after a certain point. And if we do, it's a lifestyle circumstance, or maybe it's a family change that happens or something It's not we're not really seeking that out intentionally, which I think is interesting right your family, right?

Like how's your relationship with your family, finances? Do you suck there? Is it doing great, spirituality? That's a tough one. Like how would you define that because i'm not a very religious person but spirituality I lump into a different bucket Hey, sorry to interrupt the podcast, a huge favor to ask of you.

If you are a long time listener or a new listener and you're finding value in this podcast, please head over to [00:20:00] iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to the podcast, and please leave a rating and review. This is actually very helpful for us to get this podcast in front of more clinicians and really help them develop time and financial freedom.

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Jerred: How do I define it? I think it's. It's how you define it. I think that's the point of that I always push people to like, think about that to some degree as you, if that's important to you, then you need to devote time to it.

That's ultimately like the main point I try to get across to people, because if you're, if someone's just no, I'm straight atheist, like I don. None of this spiritual, none God, none of that's for me then maybe you can just lock that one off, right? It's who cares, it doesn't matter, but if you're not, And what you have a faith of some kind, some origin, whether it's just even like you're made up I believe there's a God, but I'm not sure.

Like any of those kinds of things. If you believe anything aside from like hardcore atheists, then it's something that you have to devote some time to, [00:21:00] in my opinion, whether it's the intellectual pursuit of that to challenge yourself and make sure you fully understand what you believe. But I think what happens in all honesty, just to go down that route a little bit is I don't, I think a lot of entrepreneurs I've seen a few things happen is one, they become successful and because we, especially in American culture, feel like making money is that's the thing, right? If you know how to make a lot of money, you're basically a God.

And so a lot of people become their own gods. And in that regard, they're like. I don't need like a God to pray to look at me like I can make a ton of money I know a lot of successful entrepreneurs take that approach without saying it And then another thing that I think happens is people just actually haven't sat around and thought about it enough to establish a belief Like you can get so busy that you could not be spiritual.

It has nothing to do with what you actually believe I don't care how you were raised. It's just have you even put time In in my opinion, it's a pretty big checkbox. Have you actually thought about it? Have you had [00:22:00] conversations about it? And so in reality, it could just be like I'm so busy that just doesn't fit in right now.

So I try to remind people, I don't care if you believe what I believe or anything like that. I just want you to know, if you think this is important, you should probably devote a little bit more time to it. Just like you would your finances, your relationships or anything else.

Danny: Yeah. And again, to me, I think these are important because these are buckets of your life.

Even if you're, you could be like complete atheists, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's not. You don't feel like called to something like nature, right? Like that you find things amazing around you. Like to, to me I think that it can be as simple as that. It can literally be, you're like, holy shit, this tree is amazing.

Like this mountain is amazing. Like when I go hiking, I feel like, Why? I don't know, but there's something there that you connect with that maybe isn't like traditionally thought of as as spirituality. And most of us, I think what happens is it depends on the context you grow up, right? Like [00:23:00] you can grow up in very structured religious environments and maybe that's your community.

And that's where you find you find a sense of community. You find Enjoyment, you know being involved in those settings maybe not, my I grew up catholic, dude I went to catholic school, you know through in high school My whole family is about as catholic as you can get my name is daniel My middle name is joseph like people like my parents my mom wanted me to be a priest dude Like legit.

She named me to be a priest and I when I found out I was like you can't be like with a girl like i'm by myself. Like that sounds not cool Not in i'm out right can't get married. No i'm done So, if you think about it, like that, that early stage is based off of what your family's environment is.

And that's what you think is normal. And for some people, and they never, ever talk to anybody else about what their beliefs are. It's just this is the way it is. And. And that's for better or worse, that's just it. And in some people's case they find great solitude in the fact that they can't explain many things, but it's explained to them by somebody at a, in a [00:24:00] community.

And they're like, cool, I don't have to think about this anymore. And that actually sounds very peaceful. That sounds very nice. I wish my brain worked like that, but it doesn't. Because I'm constantly questioning things and that's just not me, right? For me, it's I find it very interesting to think about the spiritual side of things as like the things that you can't explain that are just bigger than you in some way that make you feel small.

And again, that could be in, that can be in a structured environment that can be outside of it, whatever it is. But to me, I view it almost as presence. It's your ability to be present and to look around and like when we'll go do a snowboard planning trip at the beginning of the year, which is a fun trip.

I look forward to it every year. One of my favorite things to do is literally just sit there on a lift and look around. And I'm like, this is another fucking planet that I'm on right now with all the snow everywhere. These trees look different. This is insane. This actually exists. And then we get to slide around on a stick, down.

This is amazing, and but just being present. In many cases is enough for you to feel this connection to something besides [00:25:00] just yourself, which feels very isolated and lonely, to be honest with you, if that's all you're just like, it's just me, that's all that matters. That doesn't feel very good.

And it's also not very accurate, in my opinion. To me, it can be many different things. That was a bucket that I really struggled in a couple years ago. And hard one to change by the way, because you got to I'm reading like all kinds of different texts of different people's perspectives on things.

And then you have to come to your own conclusion of what that is. And that does take time and thought. And maybe you're in a stage where you have young kids, you're sleep deprived. You're trying to get your business going. This is not an important one for you right now, right? And as you get older, you get a little bit more, a little bit more time, or you get a little bit more of an interest in these other things.

And you're trying to figure out why there's certain areas of your life that don't feel right. Then you can delve into these other things and see what interests you. But like the other buckets would be personal growth relationships and then your environment, your tribe. And everybody, if you really think about these ones that I listed, there's probably one and you probably want to avoid it because it's uncomfortable.

And you're like, Oh, I'm like a one out of [00:26:00] 10 there. That's the one like beeline to that one. And then think about, okay, what could improve there? I, there was a few years ago, Ashley and I. We started rating ourself on our relationship on a scale of 0 to 10. We would do this every week and we're like, Okay, if we're not above an 8.

5, like something's up, right? And for us to really get better at being together in a relationship, we had to go and actually work on that, which, we got married. We got together when I was 19. We got married when she was 21 and I was 22. We were we Children. Okay. No way someone should have let this happen, but yet it did.

It happened and we didn't work Until a couple years ago. We hadn't worked on a relationship one day one minute one hour like nothing not shit We just took it for granted and then all of a sudden we were like, okay This is an area we should maybe work on and that is uncomfortable Neither one of us wanted to do it But it's probably one of the best things we ever did right?

So like I it's so funny when you like you see these areas and you're like man, I struggle here You [00:27:00] I really should lean into that. And I don't know have you, do you have an example of something where it's man, I've thought about this and this is something I really didn't want to work on.

But when I did. It made a really big difference.

Jerred: I, I don't think that there's anything that necessarily is like, if I'm bad at something, I want to work on it. So I don't normally have this like feeling of ah, I don't really want to go down that road. I think I'm constantly poking that, like looking around for what's going to blindside me.

That's what, that's honestly what I'm always looking at is what's, what am I not paying attention to? So I'm just going to get caught off guard. It's just going to slap me in the face. I'm always trying to look for that. I'm looking for that in the health domain. Like I'm looking for that in, in relationships and I'm just looking for it everywhere.

And so I would say there are some things that are more uncomfortable. Like the one that you bring up specifically, maybe getting a a marriage coach or counselor or whatever, a therapist whatever the job would be there, like doing something like that could be incredibly [00:28:00] uncomfortable.

So it's like aware of the problem and then fixing it. That's where some of the discomfort comes. And I think making sure anything with another person is what makes it uncomfortable because me personally, I might be a hundred percent. Okay. With Look, if I'm bad at that, fine. Like I, I accept negative feedback any kind of feedback criticism really well.

I'm just like, okay, cool. Like I'm bad at that. I need to get better at that. Something Emily loves about me. Cause she can just tell me whatever she wants and I won't get offended. And I'll just be like, all right, cool. Like I'll go fix that thing. But then getting the other person on the same page, I think that's where it can be uncomfortable of Hey, I think we should go do this thing or whatever.

I think those things, that's where the uncomfortable situations can pop up is like when you're trying to get someone involved in what was normally just you sitting in a room, planning your goals, actions on yourself or whatever, setting goals and relationships. And it doesn't have to be your spouse.

Like it could be. Like we're talking about with friends, if it's I want more friends this year, it's you got to get other people to agree to that and to do things with you. And so you're going to have to be like a cool person and interesting person to make [00:29:00] that happen. And so those, all those areas are a little bit more uncomfortable and harder to work on because you can't just like, if I want to just get fitter, I can just go in the gym and put in more time.

And it's just my time. No one cared. I wake up earlier. I can stay up later. I can do whatever I want. But when he, when you get other people involved, I think that's where a lot of uncomfortable stuff comes up.

Danny: And it's a good segue to the business side because a lot of this also has to do with how you interact.

If you have a business partner, how you interact with them when it comes to planning, right? Because this is no different on the business side. We started looking at these different buckets. Now they may be different in terms of maybe instead of, spirituality, it's acquisition, right? Something more concrete, but even still you may disagree in regards to how you think you should go about that.

With a with a business partner and being able to effectively have those conversations, this is something that I think everybody's a bit different with. And everybody has a different style, right? Now we're talking about more leadership and even leadership with a business partner.

So [00:30:00] leadership elements that You know, carry over and how you have conversations and the things that you do or maybe don't do, or how you approach things what are your opinions on business partners in terms of if somebody is looking for a business partner, what sort of traits characteristics are lead to success versus ones that you see that have led to.

People's business partnerships really fall apart. Cause I would say like the one that you, I, and you and Eve have is really healthy, like a solid business relationship, but yet, For that one, it almost seems like an outlier. I can name 10 other ones that I've seen fall apart in a very dramatic way.

During the time that we've been together and had a business and sometimes I don't really understand why, I don't know if it's a fluke or lucky, whatever, but I don't know, what do you think about that? What makes a good one and what tends to lead to a bad one?

Jerred: Yeah, I think I'll talk on the tactical side for what you actually need in a good business partnership. And I put it in three buckets. You need the architect, [00:31:00] you need the designer and you need the decorator. And I put that all in home terms. Cause my wife and I do a lot of projects and she does that stuff. Just how my brain works, but to briefly explain those like the architect is the one coming up with the plans that are making sure that it's awesome, that it's going to withstand the test of time, maybe casting the vision if we throw that to the business side.

So we have the architect and then we have the designer. And this happens a lot. I'm very aware of it because my wife is an interior designer and not an interior decorator. And people get those, yeah, people get those things mixed up all the time. And I'm just super aware of it because of my wife. She actually hates All like furnitures, paint colors and they're like, Oh, then what is it an interior designer to do like an interior designer more works with the architect in the development of the actual plans.

So like the floor plans, like how things will work, how things will flow for your family and then it can get [00:32:00] into selections of countertops and those kinds of things. Those things can still go into the interior designer realm, but on the construction side, it's a lot more like it would be on the business side.

It's like an operational person. It's like making sure things are going to work, how they're supposed to work. Things are going to flow. There's not, because if you leave it up to electricians or whatever to make decisions where light switches are going to go. You might think that's a small thing, but they don't think about flow or use at all.

They are, they're just the hammer and here's a nail. So they'll put in a light switch at the very back corner of your room. And you probably won't care. And then you'll you'll be like, Oh man, every time I walk in this room, I got to walk all the way across the whole damn room and hit the switch over here.

And a designer will think about all those little tiny things. So anyway, that's operational. And then the direct decorator is the one who's more making sure it's appropriate for customers for use for viewing, right? It's like coming in, how it looks, how it feels, how it's curated, all of those kinds of things.

And I think you, me and Eve have all naturally fit in [00:33:00] three different, like Parts of the business and where I think there's a problem is if you're an architect and you like other architects So you bring another architect to work with you on the business or your designer and you bring another designer and then you start really clashing because the architect might be like no I think this is like where we like what it needs to do and then like the other architects like no it could be Completely different, And I think the three of us, because we've all run our own business, we can all flex into these areas.

It's not like one of us is incapable of doing the other thing, but we'd all just prefer to be in the places that we're in and just excel in those areas. So that's where I see them. Like really messing up is when you have two people trying to be the same type of person. And then the other thing is I haven't seen this as much on the negative side, But why I think our partnership works together works so well and we work together is just because a lot of our values are the same when it comes to our children, like the standards we hold ourselves to self [00:34:00] development integrity, like all of these kinds of things, all these boxes are checked amongst all three of us and have been for a long time.

Like we trust each other and that develops. So I think on the personal side, a lot of those things have to be checked and we have similar just like life stages. So we understand each other as well, because if I was. Partners with a 22 year old single male who like wanted to drink and hit the clubs and like all this kind of stuff that I just don't even understand anymore.

And we're trying to be business partners, but he's also I'm working 16 hours a day and you're just putting in your like seven or eight. There might be some conflict there. Just because of we're in like different stages of life. So I think. Long winded answer, but I think it's a lot of finding all of these right pathways for the business partners who are going to be part of a business and making sure you check all those boxes on the personal side.

Danny: I like how you break that down because it is interesting that like on the business partnership side, [00:35:00] I think life stage is actually very important. I hadn't really thought about that, but you're right. If I was working with somebody that was, yeah, younger and or maybe older, maybe they're like, I don't know, 10, 15 years older than me. And they want to they're like to the back end of their Career they want to chill. They want they don't want to be as active. But they're looking for more of a mentorship role kind of thing. Like it's probably not going to work, right?

That's not maybe going to be a good fit. The other thing too is I don't think people have to be exactly the same. That's the other thing like I feel like you, Eve, and I are we're, we share core foundational sort of beliefs there's I don't have any issue you have to find somebody you trust, number one I would, I don't have any I'm not second guessing Anything that, that you or Eve might do, right?

I'm not like, Oh is Jerred stealing? Is he stealing from us every month? That's never crossed my mind once. Because there's a level of integrity and just trust that you have to have with people, but you don't have to be exactly the same as well, you know what I'm saying?

Like we all decide to live in different places. We all value [00:36:00] slightly different things. Like we. We're interested in different things and, but yet there's also overlapping, similarities there that are foundational, that are really important. And I think that's that's actually like really healthy in particular, instead of just being an echo chamber where everybody literally has the exact same lifestyle.

They think the exact way it's that's not necessarily the case. And I don't think that's just maybe the best thing for for coming to solutions to problems either, because like we have some friction sometimes and how we have to resolve issues or things we're trying to do. And that friction is really important because it creates probably the best alternative versus just a one sided thing.

Cause I might look at something and be like, this is the solution. This is it. But then all of a sudden we might talk through it. And I'm like, this was a terrible idea. After a period of time, like this is an awful idea because you may look at something very differently. And then again, like you have to trust that person.

Cause if you just think to yourself. I know it's right. They just need to do what I tell them to do. That's not a partnership. That's an employee. You should hire an employee, not necessarily have a partner. And I wonder I see people that own their own businesses just by themselves, and they can [00:37:00] be greatly successful like that.

I have done both. And I just don't think it's as much fun to it's not as enjoyable to do something that's challenging for extended period of time all by yourself, I guess if somebody is, I get this question in the mastermind a lot. You're like, ah, this person wants to partner with me.

Do you think I should do it or not? Like in what circumstances do you think in a clinic in particular, in this example, it makes sense for somebody to look to partner with somebody versus continue on by themself.

Jerred: I think what are the two skillsets being brought to the table and making sure it's not just like laziness on either.

Anybody's part, like they hear us saying, Hey, business partnerships are great. So they're like, yeah, what you and I, let's just get together. It's when was it captain planet, our powers combined. Oh

Danny: yeah, dude. Yeah. I just perked up a little bit. What?

Jerred: So with our powers combined, whatever that whole phrase is, like we can go take [00:38:00] over the world or whatever it is,

Danny: Yourself right now, by the way, with your captain,

Jerred: no one else knows what I'm talking about, but I'm glad that you did.

So I think the combination of the skill sets needs to bring something to the table that's going to result in a bigger value, add a faster growth clip, something like that. And not just two people trying to hash it out and figure it out together who already don't know what's going on. So I think.

Above all that we've already discussed about the personal side of things and making sure that the, you're bringing in the right types of people that's designer versus decorator, all those kinds of things. I just think too is there a value add and starting to partner with one another?

Because I've also seen people try and partner when one person's like basically really the failing when the other person is not as much and they're like we'll just work together because you're a business owner now, and I think I should like. Give you the satisfaction of continuing to be a business owner.

It's maybe that person should just be an employee. Like, why don't you pitch him that? Like, why don't you pitch him? Why don't you come be an employee? Because [00:39:00] that's another thing with equity is you can tell how much you value a business or how valuable your business is not if you're just willing to throw equity at somebody, if you're just like, yeah, whatever, come in 30% That means you don't know anything about the value of your business, the risk that you're currently taking on like anything like that, if you're just like willing to throw that out there to me, throwing equity out, like just what, like it doesn't matter means you don't either have a valuable business or you just completely have a gross misunderstanding of the value of your business.

Danny: I was told one time by a business mentor that equity is either earned or bought, right? That's pretty much the only context in which I see that conversation, like going. And I get a lot of questions from clinicians that have practices that have a clinician that's been around for a few years, and even just recently, I was just talking to somebody about this, that they have a clinician that's, Has been [00:40:00] with the clinic for three years, I think they're functioning a clinic director role and they talk to him They're like, hey, it's you know, i'm interested in becoming a partner.

What does that look like? And That's common and I think That person they may not understand they may understand like what they're asking for either sometimes but it seems like With tech startups in particular, it's yeah, you have stock based compensation, you have, potentially you have the actual shares of a company could be potentially very diluted is very different situation than we're talking about a small business that is truly going to be like, this is there's like a finite amount we're not, we can't dilute this based on how the operating agreement is set up and you're going to have X amount, right?

And that's all there is, right? There's a hundred shares, let's say it. And if you want to have 20 of them. Then this is what it looks like. The also, the other thing too, is people typically come to someone at a stage after they've gone through, proof of concept scale stage, all these really hard things is really challenging, very risky portions of the [00:41:00] business and, and then they're just like, yeah, I want to be a partner and the, I'm not saying that's the wrong thing to do for people because it can very much be the right thing.

But again, Bought earned right? So is there sweat equity can tie this to bring in if you can't bring business into a business Then you're a fulfiller. You're not an asset Like if you can't bring more patients into a clinic because of your reputation, because your ability to connect locally because your ability to do marketing of some sort to be able to sell effectively to get retention and teach other people how to do that.

Like you're just good at fulfilling stuff. That's, you're just fulfilling. That's not all that valuable. And if you just want to be a fulfiller and a partner in a business, like I probably wouldn't partner with somebody like that, but if that person can then. Maybe take over even operations, right?

Maybe they're great operationally and they can help facilitate some of that. They're better at internal systems and improving the team, whatever it is that they can do to help improve the business. You have to try to quantify that and say, all right, if we see these things happen, then equity vests over this period of time, right?

But I think the thing that. Really gets [00:42:00] people to have skin in the game is to buy it, and the challenge is most closely don't have any money, right? Or they don't have enough. And let's say you have a business that you want to try to sell a portion of it for a hundred thousand dollars.

Like that is a lot of skin in the game for somebody. If you want to invest a hundred thousand dollars into a business as a true partner, I would take that very seriously. If that, because unless that person hates money and they don't mind wasting their money, Think about the level of effort that person is going to put in when they feel true ownership.

And they have to feel it because they didn't feel the pain of starting it. They've never felt that. We never, we did more of a sweat equity agreement and it was like a sketchy one. If the business didn't do this amount more revenue in a period of time, then there was no equity that was gained.

But I'm sure you guys felt like you really earned it by the time that we actually hit these numbers versus just giving it to somebody. I don't know. They don't view it the same way.

Jerred: Yeah, you have to, like you said, and I'll hit on that point again. If there's no like true value, I'd meaning like you can't bring more patients or you can't scale up.

There's no real [00:43:00] reason I see a partnership to exist. Like I don't, other than it just doesn't, it wouldn't make sense to me. I don't know why you would do that. But if you get two really ambitious people, then it might be like. Maybe this is a good idea, and, but at the same time, making sure are they too ambitious people who's fit, who are wearing different hats again, not like just too conflicting, whatever.

Cause then you might be able to go build something that's amazing. But I think, yeah, earning equity or buying it, it just puts it on a different pedestal. And even if people are like I really want a path to earn equity in the company. I don't think that's Then it's okay, only over a certain period of time.

And they'd have to hit some pretty substantial, like markers to be able to achieve that. So I'm in complete agreement with what your mentor said. I think you have to earn it. It can never be given. And I think that if you find the right person, they don't look at that as a negative. They're not like, Oh man, I got to earn it.

If that's even the response. Yeah, [00:44:00] then you should probably be like, no, I don't want to partner with that person. You want a person who's yeah I'll give you some equity, but like you're gonna have to earn it and they're like sounds easy. What do I do? That's the person that you Want to work with and partner with because the opposite attitude is already a red flag of I don't know like you don't want to go down that path.

Danny: It's so similar. It's funny. It's like kids when they Like, let's say, one of our kids wants, I don't know, an Intentive Switch or something, right? And they're like, hey, Dad, I want Intentive Switch. Can you get me one? Versus, and let's say I just did, all right? They just got this thing and it was easy, right?

Okay, they don't treat it the same way. They're not going to respect it. They probably will lose it, right? They, it's just. easy. If I want the loser, I get another one. Who cares? Versus, if you say, all right, cool you can get one, but you got to buy half of it. And you're going to have to buy half it through doing these things.

And once you get that money, then we'll go to the store and I want you to take that cash out of your little piggy bank. I'll pay for it. You give [00:45:00] me the money. And then you get this thing, right? Or however you want to set that up, to, to where they have to actually earn something, the way in which they're going to treat whatever that thing is, it's very different, the respect they have over actually getting that thing.

It's very different. And it's so similar when it comes to basically anything that somebody would ever earn. And you can make this case for something that you had to work really hard to get. Maybe it's your first car you wanted to buy. Maybe it's the first house. Do you remember the first house we bought?

Yeah. I thought I was I thought I'd fucking made it. I was basically Jeff Bezos like when I walked to that house, it's this is a this house cost me 122, 000 in san antonio, texas in 2007 and Right before the housing market took a dump on everybody and I was like I skipped into this house, right?

Because I had worked really hard to be able to save up a down payment. We were young, we had bought this house, which was very few people that we knew had ever done. And that was a really meaningful thing for us versus what if my [00:46:00] family had just given us money? It sounds nice in reality.

They're like, Hey, you get married, here's a down payment for this house. You didn't have to do shit for it. Enjoy the new house. It wouldn't have been the same thing. I'm sure I would have been excited, but man, like the level of like ownership I took over that and just like pride associated with it was so different.

And when you earn something in a business, you deserve it. If you're given something, you don't necessarily deserve it and you don't have the same respect for it. I think that if you're talking to anybody about this, These are examples you can use with them with why it's important for them to actually earn it.

And if they're not willing to earn it, or maybe they go down the path and they're like, this is hard. I actually don't want to do this. Way better for them to learn that than for you to be like, yeah, let's just partner. This'll be awesome. And then it's hard. And they're like actually I like the other thing that I was doing.

Can we go back to that? And that's where it gets really messy and awkward.

Jerred: Yeah. You, we've even had this happen with employees. Like sometimes you might try and set up a Like a compensation plan. That's more commission based or and some people are like [00:47:00] all about that.

And then there's some people who are like, can you just pay me? Can I provide enough value to just earn like my monthly salary? Is that okay? And I've ran into both in my. Default is to always try and get people to earn something. That's what I want to do. But there are other people who don't want to do that.

And that's okay. That just means that they should probably be an employee. They shouldn't be a business partner.

Danny: That's actually a great limit. Mrs. Clayman's test is. Yeah, if you're just like you get stressed out with 20 percent of your compensation being performance based, like you really probably should not go into a business of any sort, because the variable pay will stress you out so bad, that was something that was very hard for me, actually, I'd come out of YouTube coming out of the government.

You're getting, you get paid the same, you're going to get a bump every year and every two years you're going to get an even bigger bump and you're going to make rank pretty consistently, right? Unless you do something terrible, you're going to make major, like we both got out as as captains.

And, but I don't know, 85 percent of the people in my [00:48:00] core made major. Like you do something like pretty bad. Lieutenant colonel, it's harder, colonel, whatever it is, it's harder than that. It's lower percentage, but You can see it, and there's there's these steady increases that you see along the way when you start a business, you could have.

You can have a month where you're on top of the world. Oh my God, we cracked the code. And then the next month you think you're going out of business and your pay can be up and down that it's very stressful. So I think that's a really good litmus test for somebody, whether they should do that or not.

So for, to wrap this up, I should say let's let's finish here with a business partner conversation and and we'll finish it there. If somebody is looking for a big, good business partner, it's got to be somebody that compliments their skillset. That is willing to have some skin in the game, potentially financially, definitely with their time, but then also with potential variable pay.

And it's gotta be somebody that you have foundational like beliefs that are aligned as well as potentially in the same period of their life as you, is there anything else you'd add to that?

Jerred: No. And I would say you could get away with the business partnership to that. [00:49:00] Maybe goes well fiscally, financially without the personal say they're just a good person, like they have integrity and they're trustworthy.

But there just couldn't be more different than you, whatever. Culturally they're in a different stage of life. I think that you could make those work, but I do think that you won't have as much fun as the business owner. And I'm just saying if you do, going back to my example of someone being 20 years old and partnering with me, like twice their age, like that just might not be fun, has nothing to do with it's just eh, we get together, we hang out.

I don't know what he's talking about. There's, he doesn't know what I'm talking about. Like that just might not be fun, but we might succeed, we might do really well. So that's another big part I would say is I think about a lot of that now is yeah I'm doing business.

We're making money and we're having fun, and going back to your point, like on the personal side, like that's also true in the business side that I'm just like hyper aware of now from the people that we hang out with, like Our actual clients in the mastermind, we do these events, [00:50:00] our actual fun people to hang around people.

We hire the teammates, like they all fit really well culturally. And then same with business partners. It's just made. The business really fun. Like we look forward to things that we're doing and it's never really felt like this, like drag of a job. And so I think just to go back to that point, it's you could probably get it done.

Like you don't have to have this person who's exactly like you, or, you know what I mean? Same stage of life, all that kind of stuff, but. If you want to have a lot more fun, you just need to surround yourself with a lot of people who are like culturally and I'm talking about like business culture, like the same, they have a lot of the same beliefs, like they want to take care of themselves.

They're ambitious. They're hard charges, those kinds of things. You want to be around those types of people. It just makes the whole experience a lot better.

Danny: That's a great way of looking at it too. Are these people that you want to go through a big chunk of your life with, right?

Like it is I talked to you and Eve. More than my own brother like because we're on meetings twice a week, at least right [00:51:00] and It I mean this is a big part of your life If this is what you decide to do, you might as well pick people you enjoy talking to people that you know, you find interesting to spend time with because if you have to spend time like let's say somebody was just like You know the world's greatest marketer and i'm like this person can Just create leads out of thin air, but like I got to spend a few days with them in a mountain cabin and they're, it's just I'm dreading it.

Like I'm going to say no to that, it's just going to be, this isn't going to work out. Like I'm going to be so unmotivated to want to like really dig into stuff in the business. And. What a waste that would be, right? Just because you think it's going to create more money for you. It's just not worth it.

There's plenty of ways to make money. But being able to have enjoyable times with people that you can do difficult things with and accomplish those hard things. That's actually so much more fun. It is, I think mentally it takes a lot more to do these hard things on your own, to run a business on your own.

I think mentally it's very hard in comparison. It's hard no matter what, it's [00:52:00] just misery loves company. And if you have somebody to share that with and that it does make it more, sustainable in a number of ways, but that should be a litmus test yet. Would you want to have a beer with this person?

Is this somebody, would you want to have a beer with this person? Is this somebody you want to be stuck in a cabin with for three days if you were snowed in, is this somebody who you'd be willing to sign over your financial, like power of attorney to is this somebody that if you died, you're, you would trust your, them to do the right thing for your.

Wife and kids are they smart? These are the things, if you can't check those boxes, you should just say no. It's just not worth it. And that's a pretty stringent list, I would say, but it should be, because it's a big decision. It's no different than somebody you're going to marry.

It's very, It's very hard to unwind these things, so if you make the wrong decision, God, I'll slow you down Years, if not longer Just trying to get back to wherever you're trying to go and we've seen this with business partnerships that have gone wrong And it's just really messes people up for an extended period of time.

So it's not something to take lightly It can be a absolutely huge catalyst for sure, but you got [00:53:00] to make sure that you're doing that with the right person you know And it does help that if you have somebody else has had a business before I think that's what's appealing You know between you me and eve is the fact that we all have had other businesses So it's not like I don't know you're not naive to what it takes, so that can help too but anyway, we'll leave it at that Hopefully this something you find some value out of hope we can plan some personal stuff, you know get intentional this year If people are breaching the business, partnership discussion with you, make sure they check these boxes that we talked about.

It could be amazing. It could be the worst decision you've ever made, right? Like it's just depends the context. It just depends. But other than that, man, thanks for time today. I appreciate it. Hope everybody really liked this one. And if they want to listen to your podcast what's the name of it and where can they listen to it?

Jerred: Yeah. Just search a better human business. I published twice a week, 10 minute episodes. We'll be doing a couple of interviews in 2025 that are longer in nature. But

Danny: That's it. Go check it out. Jerred, thanks for your time. I appreciate it.

Jerred: Yeah. Thanks for having me.[00:54:00]

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