E540 | Resolving Burnout Through Entrepreneurship with Colleen Rollo

Welcome back to the P.T. Entrepreneur Podcast! This week, I am excited to bring you one of the amazing clinicians and business owners we get to work with. We first connected with Colleen Rollo in the summer of 2021 and she was in a stage of her clinical career of wondering what was next. Entrepreneurship was actually not on her radar at that time, but today we dive into what shifted for her and how she is now the owner of a thriving business.

• Handling the guilt of burnout
• Getting in the right mindset before a business meeting
• Colleen's upcoming plans for her practice

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] So there's all kinds of hidden fees within your business that are just part of doing business. One of those is credit card. Processing and for us, we didn't even realize how much we were paying in credit card processing with the first management software we were using for our practice. And when we switched over to PT everywhere, we just realized we were saving literally hundreds of dollars a month with credit card processing with their partner with Card point versus who we were using with our prior.

Software. This has made a massive difference. It's more than paid for itself. It allows us to decrease our overhead. It allows us to have more cash flow to reinvest in our people, in our technology, in our facility, in marketing and everything that's gonna drive the business. So don't get abused by credit card processing companies.

Make sure you're paying what you should pay. And if you're looking for a management software, highly recommend PT everywhere directly integrates with a. Processor makes it very easy and their rates are super, super competitive. So it's saved us a ton of money and it probably will do the same for you if you don't know what you are getting charged.

So head over to PT everywhere. Take a look at what they've [00:01:00] got. I think you really like it. So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't wanna see 30 patients a day, who don't wanna work home health and have real student loans create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about?

This is the question, and this podcast is the answer. My name's Danny Matte, and welcome to the PT Entrepreneur Podcast.

What's going on guys? Doc Danny here with the PT Entrepreneur Podcast and today. We get an opportunity to chat with one of our clients and somebody that I think has a really cool story and somebody I'm excited to chat with about her business and her business journey. And it's Colleen Rolo, her and her husband Sean.

They're co-owners of Paradigm Performance Therapy in William Wilmington, North Carolina military town. Big fan of that city. And and this is somebody that we got connected. It was summer of 2021. When we [00:02:00] first got a chance to chat I wanted to have Ron because I feel like of all the people, That I have spoken to recently, in particular when we talk about the frustrations that a lot of clinicians deal with, especially clinicians that are they've they've hit that point in their clinical career where they've they figured it out clinically.

You're five, 10 years in I got this, I can still learn more obviously, but you're really competent and there's somewhat of a challenge of what next and what opportunities, you may have. And entrepreneurship is not one that was on. Your radar at all, which is like probably the coolest part I think of all of it, is it just wasn't something that you thought you would ever do and you're doing really well with it.

Anyway, let me first of all just say thank you so much for your time. I know you're busy and I'm super excited to chat.

Colleen: Danny, thank you so much. I'm so grateful for this experience and so indebted to what you guys have set ahead of us so we can just fall in your

Danny: footsteps. Yeah, that's, it's I appreciate you saying that.

It's, that's the intent. I think for us it's We're constantly trying to test stuff and share stuff and make the transition easier because it's really hard. [00:03:00] It's not like you went to school, like you had no thought right. Whatsoever of own your practice. You zero. You weren't the negative in the corner dude, right?

You were like, oh yeah, I'm mapping out my business plan while everybody's learning neuroscience. You were like, Study in neuroscience?

Colleen: Yes, 100%. I am the typical nerd geek. Oh, I only got a 90. You need to relax. Oh, really?

Danny: People like you are The reason I got through physical therapy school, I had, there were there were two people in my class that were like amazing study guide preppers.

I guess they would put together these very in-depth study guides and that's how they learned. And then they would learn. The material by then regurgitating it to me and another guy I was in school with usually like the early the morning before a test. And it's not that we didn't study, we just like this was like our, this topped us off and they literally were a lifesaver and it was like a great win-win because this is how they learned. And then it was how I learned, I would sit and listen and then I would be ready to go. So thank you for people like yourself that helped me get through school.

I wanna start with this. So [00:04:00] why don't you give us a background. Where'd you go to PT school? What settings were you working in for your career up until you started your practice? What, what did your physical therapy like career look like up to that point?

Colleen: So I am from Danvers, Massachusetts, which is just about 30 minutes or so north of Boston. I went to school in Springfield, Massachusetts at American International College, and they had a six year program, so that was fantastic. So right after school I accepted a job right outside of Boston at a skilled nursing facility.

You're getting a lot of, accruing a lot of debt while you're in school. So I went right for the moneymaker. And skilled nursing facilities really were paying a lot. I was living at home at the time, so it was perfect. Win-win just to get my foot in the door, get some experience and then it quickly went downhill at that point.

My very first job, there was a situation that happened where there was a guy who was on my schedule for 75 minutes and I had to go see him and his line supine blood pressure was, 58, over 38. So I'd go to my manager, I'm like, [00:05:00] this is not appropriate for, physical therapy. She said, get whatever you can.

Just oh my gosh, is this how this whole entire career is gonna be? This is terrible. And then lo and behold, within two hours, that poor gentleman died. I'm like, thank God. I, ugh. It's terrible. This is a bad way to start, but that's kinda

Danny: hard. Wait a second. This is this is week one.

Colleen: No, I would say within six months, but still.

Oh, ok. Six months my first

Danny: job. Yeah. Seriously. I've never had anybody die on me like that. That's crazy.

Colleen: I hope you have a lot of time because my stories continue to just go. Every single setting I've worked in has. A similar situation. I don't know what I'm attracted to or how that gets put to me, but, wow.

Anyway, so after we were there for two years, I met Sean at a i c, he's a couple years older than me, so when I met him, he was finishing his last clinical and I was just starting PT school. So we, I graduate, I work at the nursing home for two and a half years or so. Then he got the opportunity to be the head PT for marsoc Special Operations down in [00:06:00] Jacksonville.

Yeah. Like two days after our wedding, we got back two days after our honeymoon, we got back. And Sean moved down here quickly after that. So I went from having three jobs, a full-time skilled nursing, and then I was trying to find an inpatient rehab. But at the time, all the hospitals in Boston were not hiring new grads, or they just were not hiring people in general.

Yeah. So I decided to accept a job in home health down in North Carolina Now. We, I've never been here before, so I didn't know anything about the counties and I learned very quickly that they were laughing all the way, just saying, here, recover five counties of area. I was like, great job.

Let's do it. I quickly learned. Day two, I go to do a discharge on a client who's connected to a ventilator, which I'm confused as to why this person's even on PT to begin with. And before I even do anything, you check the vitals, there's no pulse. What, so yes, I can't make this up.

Danny: You're like the grim reaper.

You're like the grim reaper of [00:07:00] physical therapy.

Colleen: Stay away. Is this

Danny: normal? Cause I've never worked in like a skilled nursing facility. I actually take that back. I spent two days in a skilled nursing facility. So I could check a box, I think for our school to be able to take a national test.

But is that normal? Do people die on their daily basis? No. Okay just around you then.

Colleen: So I am new to the area. I am brand new to this job. I have no idea what's going on. I call the boss or whomever was in charge at the time, and I just said, you have usually six patients a day, but we're driving through a large area.

So I call him, I had four patients rest of the afternoon and I said, Hey, I found myself in an interesting situation. And he's yeah, tell me more. I'm like this person died and I was the first one on the scene, and I'm traumatized and I'm going home. Can you cover my schedule?

Danny: Wow. Terrible.

Geez. Okay, so you go through inpatient home health, skilled nursing, fast forward to where you are, working in a setting [00:08:00] and bef like maybe six to 12 months before, we even got connected. What were you doing and what was your day-to-day typically like?

Colleen: So I was working at a critical access hospital and we shared a lot.

Majority of our clients were outpatient, but majority of them were total joint replacements or just general medical. And then we did have a smaller inpatient or acute care. They synonymously, but they are very different. But in the setting that we're in, it was more of an acute care kind of situation.

You just had your joint replacement, you're here, we're making sure you're safe, discharge home, and then we'll follow up with you for our patient. So I was doing that. I was there for five and a half years, almost six years, and it was a great experience. But I think just every job that I've had, I'm only giving you sprinkles of the crazy situations that I have been in.

I was so burnt out already because I have accumulated so much money and student loan debt and just trying to chip away at that, I just never felt like there was enough, enough money, enough time. So I [00:09:00] had, been known to work two jobs at a time, working 28 days in a row. Yeah, so you can imagine my quality of life was terrible.

I was not taking care of myself. I'm not sleeping. I am mentally exhausted, physically exhausted. It was just, and then the pandemic hit. And I think that was really the icing on the cake, just to think like I was barely making it by. I felt so guilty because here are people with real situations, real health scares that have brain cancer and or had a stroke, and I'm just feeling like I have nothing left in the tank to help you.

Yeah, and I just kept on felting, like feeling so guilty, like, why do I feel this way? This is terrible. So I just couldn't shake that feeling. And Sean had gone to a continuing education course, I think it was a manual therapy certification and where he met Andrew with the Charlotte athlete and he tennis, he was teaching the course.

He had said, Sean, you guys should open up your business. You should open up a business in Millington. You should do it. And. So I think there were four series, like four [00:10:00] courses of this series. And so Sean had, said, let's do this. And I was like, absolutely not. No chance. Not even entertaining it, not gonna do it.

And then the second or the third time came and I don't know, I just couldn't shake this feeling of dread of. Just like I don't even know what to do with myself. I don't wanna be a PT anymore. Like I really just have no desire to do this any longer. And again, feeling so guilty about I just spent so much money on getting a doctorate degree.

Yeah. And a board certification, and I'm just so burnt out and tired that I just want to do nothing. So then I kept on looking for job openings in the area just to try something different. Maybe something else will pop up, and then I just had this feeling like a light bulb on it. Changing to a different job is not gonna change the situation.

The high volume of patients, I'm still gonna need to see the documentation requirements are still gonna be there. So I thought, why not Really, why not? And I'm a very calculated [00:11:00] decision maker. So it took from January 21 to October one, where my last day at my job. 10 months. 10 months. So that was a long 10 months of my life.

But best thing ever. Yeah, it's a lot of

Danny: senioritis if you think about it. If, oh, I remember when I was getting outta the army, I knew I was getting outta the army, but I owed I think it was 11 months of time after I dropped my packet to separate and it was like the longest 11 months of my life.

Because you have this big transition that is going to happen and. It's a long period of time to have to wait and it's almost, it, for me, it reminded me of this feeling I would have before like a football game. Everybody would be nervous, but as soon as you get hit once, You know what it feels like, but it's different whenever you're playing in front of other people and then all of a sudden game on like we're going it, but there's this anxiety, there's this nervousness that you have it leading up to a big, event in particular, a career change in some ways, not necessarily.

Changing your career, but changing the way you're using [00:12:00] your skillset in a very different setting and frankly, skills that you had to learn. Yeah. And this is actually something that I have a lot of con, I just have conversations with clinicians quite a bit, and this is something that I think for a lot of them, they have a lot of self-doubt of whether they can actually make a business work on their own.

And you just told me, Obviously you're smarter than me when it comes to learning things and tests. Yeah and in many ways, probably far more intelligent and anybody that can get a doctor degree is very smart. It's not a fluke, like it takes a long time. They're hard to get into. So for you taking that ability to learn like it's a skillset that you learned and then applying it to a slightly different skill of business sales and marketing and understanding how to set up a business, how was that process for you?

Was it difficult for you to do that or did it almost, did it feel more familiar in a way of okay, now I'm in school, I'm ready to learn, this is what I'm gonna do, and these are my study habits. I would

Colleen: say a little bit of both. [00:13:00] One, it was the most terrifying experience of my life. So Sean got us connected.

You and I and Danny you of course. And so remember our first phone call, I had to sneak outta my job in the middle of my day. Yeah, it's a hundred degrees in the end of July. And we're FaceTiming with you and my phone shuts off cuz it was so hot. I was like, oh my God. I just blew it. I just blew the opportunity I had.

After that, I was like, oh my gosh, this is the worst. Does this happen in real life? And then I couldn't, anyway. So again, see, here's the theme in my life. Yeah. So after, I think that was the end of July 21, I think we started I gave a six week notice and almost immediately, 48 hours after that, I.

Got sick with Covid, a really bad case. I lost 10 pounds. My resting oxygen baseline lying supine was 84%. It was terrible. Wow. So talking about buyer'ss remorse, I had just gave my notice. I had just committed to the clinical [00:14:00] rainmaker, and now I can barely open my eyes long enough to stay conscious enough because I'm really sick.

Whoa. I was freaking out like, oh my God, did I just make the biggest mistake of my life? Like I couldn't even handle trying to figure out what to do. So the rainmaker was such a wonderful safety net because like you said, they don't teach you how to learn and run and do a business in school. They teach you how to be a good physical therapist, not anything about the business.

So I would say probably right around the time of October, where my last day at my job was, When I started to become normal functioning where I could actually walk more than household distances and go out and meet business owners, so I felt like I was already. Bad before I could even get started.

So that was the most terrifying experience, I think. Trying to handle my stress, my physical self, and then just learn all of this new, information. [00:15:00] But also, I agree with what you're saying. I did definitely channel, okay, I'm back in school, let's go. This is my full-time job now, I am a huge lover of Eminem.

So his song Lose Yourself. Oh yeah. Success is my only m, option failure's not. I was like, let's go. This is it. So you're

Danny: just listening to, you're just listening to Eminem on repeat all day. I love that.

Colleen: I'm serious. Everyone that knows me, it's I never would've guessed that. Yes. Love it. Hey, so Exactly.

I'm a huge

Danny: Beyonce fan. People don't know that. I love it. People don't know that. But I think it's, I think it's great. I like working outta that and rage against the machine. That's like my that's my too no, I hear you. Whatever it is like for you, as far as like just your mindset is concerned and what you need to do to get yourself to a point where you're ready to do some of these things.

Cause I think for a lot of people and I'd love to know your experience with this as a business, as a brand new business owner and someone that probably would enjoys helping people so much, if you didn't have any. Expenses. And let's say we lived in some utopia, like you would probably help people with injuries for free because [00:16:00] you get a lot of personal satisfaction out of it, like most people in our profession.

But now all of a sudden you have to go out and you have to talk about money and you have to like actually get paid for what you do and have people pay you directly, which is something that doesn't really happen a whole lot right in the professional. It's very rare. So how did you handle that side of it?

I think that's one of the biggest hurdles people have to get over.

Colleen: I, yeah, that was definitely a big hurdle for me. I feel like when I first started the clinical rainmaker, the first module that y'all have is the mindset and not for nothing. I think I have a pretty strong mindset, so I was just like, eh, I'll come back to that, is it, but then, Yeah, but I shouldn't, I should take advantage of the time these are here as a resource.

I'm not gonna overlook it, but I was just like, okay, next. But that definitely was so helpful to, if your mind's not in the game, then you're not gonna help anybody. So I definitely agree. Having the guidance on, how to. What is the saying that you always say, show what I know what I'm worth.

I know what I'm worth. [00:17:00] That's why I got all of these credentials. But how come once I have to put a price tag on it in a different way upfront right now, here's what I charge. Pay me now where before someone was paying for it, but it wasn't such an upfront cost. So I think just like the scenario of it was a little bit different but definitely something that needed to be learned and was helpful to have all the guidance in terms of, Again, training Sean to do all the same things

Danny: too.

So let's talk about the, because the rainmaker in particular is really, Great for people that are just, they're just starting or they've started something on the side and it's not really going cuz they just, they don't really know how to sell or how to market. These are the two big things that we tend to see.

Just setting it up is a big hurdle, but then it's get people in the door and then, Effectively sell them through a plan of care to, to be able to get them a great outcome and continue to have people come your way from that as one element of a marketing tool. But for you, of the things that you had to learn and that you did learn what was, what would you say the hardest thing was for you [00:18:00] to learn from that actual, training program and what was the easiest thing?

What was the thing that was like, man, this no problem. I can do this very easily.

Colleen: I'm sure this will come to no surprise to you, but building systems and just staying organized, that is my jam. Yeah. I remember onboarding with Yves and he was like, wow, you were born to do this. And I said I dunno about that.

I don't know about that, but I feel very comfortable in terms of setting things up and having organization. The sales was definitely the hardest, I would say. I very much love Roger as a resource, the sales ninja, because he really is a sales ninja. Very smart. I need to channel some Roger. Yes.

That was definitely the hardest.

Danny: You know what's funny is like I'm. Updating the book that I wrote, and there's a there's two. What I've found, clinical archetypes that get involved in this and really just in the profession in general. One is a seller naturally, and the other one is a thinker typically.

And the thinker is typically highly organized. They have a plan A, B, and C, they're great at [00:19:00] developing systems and structure. They like to stick to things. They have a meticulous calendar, like this is. Probably what you fall into more than somebody like Roger, for instance, is a seller, and so for him, certain elements of the start are far easier than you.

But what is really cool for somebody like yourself that can get over the hurdle of learning how to sell and getting past the. In most cases, the money mindset issues that stop people like yourself from really ever being able to start and grow a business. Once you get to the point where you then bring other people into the mix, you are such a better boss.

You're such a better leader because I. You actually support them. You actually have infrastructure and you have systems and you have repeatability. And somebody like myself, for instance I'm a natural seller and I'm an awful manager of people. I like my wife is amazing and she's very much more similar to you, right?

So thank God I married somebody that was a business partner, mine. Otherwise I probably would still be in an office by myself, screening [00:20:00] patients a couple days a week and you need some of those skillsets. You need to either bring those in or you need to really work hard to develop your own.

So for you, you had to really develop that, that sales side to be able to get to the point where, you can then eventually grow your team and really shine in the role of being just an amazing leader of those people. And that's really, the trajectory that you're on. So it's funny that you bring that up and that selling was hard for you.

How do you feel with it now? Like you've had, oh, to this point over a year? Just shy. We'll do it. Yeah. How do you feel now about n number one, what you're worth? So your, my current mindset about what you're actually worth and your comfort level with having a sales conversation in comparison to when you first started.

Colleen: I feel like, oh, there's a big drastic difference. Early on I was so nervous and just hi, this is how much I charge. Just very timid and it's like, why would anyone buy for me? That's terrible. Yeah. To working on your mindset to be. Confidence and as one of the books that you had suggested, the charisma myth.

Yeah. You have to be [00:21:00] present. Show your warmth. And power. So really channeling that, using those resources from a lot of the books that have been recommended from the PT entrepreneur or PT biz. And then just really having practice, I would say, Recording yourself, wa listening and just trying to have a variety of clients that, to have different money objections, I think definitely has been helpful.

Danny: Has it helped you in any other areas? I'm interested just because I know for me, whenever I started to dive into sales, s so many other things became easier for me. Just day-to-day conversations, interactions with people at my kids' school, just it's just a, it's just a For me, I found it as a framework of communication that is a far more advanced way of understanding verbal and non-verbal communication than I ever knew before.

Colleen: I couldn't have said that any better or articulate that any better. I really totally agree with that. I feel like just last night we went out and were doing trivia with some friends and it [00:22:00] was so crazy the depth of the level of conversation that we have when we really, have known these people for just a few months.

But I feel like we've known them forever. Yeah, where did this come from? How did we get to this point? So I definitely feel like just being more aware, just. Sticking into any knowledge that we can to help has really helped all aspects of our life, honestly. Relationships or just business too.

Danny: Yeah I wanna circle back to the charisma myth for a second, because it's literally one of my top five books. I talk about this book all the time. I don't think it's actually that popular of a book. It's not like it's sold like some of these other ones that are maybe well more well-known business books, but for every reason it hit me.

Really at the right time with something that I needed to improve and upgrade. And one of the concepts of the book is the idea of different types of charisma, right? Because like you and I are different people, but we can both be charismatic in a way that's, that is unique to ourself, that is a aligned with ourself.

And it, it doesn't have to be like, I don't have to be Kevin Hart. And you don't have to be the rock. No. And if we [00:23:00] tried to do that, we would come off. Really weird because yes, that's not our, that's our not our core personality. So what have you found in terms of when you think of your own ability to be charismatic, especially when you have people that are coming in to work with you what do you typically align with more?

Like what aspects of what she defines in the book as charisma. Do you really lean more into.

Colleen: I feel like I wish I read that sooner, early on in our journey, cuz I think that would've really helped with my confidence in other areas too. I just finished it, just the other day. So I wish I got to that a little bit sooner cause I think that would've really helped propel my confidence and as an entrepreneur, but also as a clinician too.

I've really enjoyed the different. Types of charisma that you can have. Also following along some of the information that I've learned along the way through Rainmaker and the Mastermind is body language and just being so aware of body language anywhere. I feel when you first learn how to do a gate assessment, that's all you do.

Look at their gate, they have no [00:24:00] heel. Strike this, not whatever. Sean would never entertain me. I would always do that with him out in public. He'd be like, no, I'm not doing that. Yeah. But it's the same thing out in public. And this couple is, closed off, and then this other person has a lot of presence and a lot of warmth.

So I feel like it's easier to connect with people meet the client where they're at in their journey. And I feel like learning all of these subtle changes really makes a big difference. So you can relate to them where they're at right now in their journey.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. Th that's such a great point. And I think that there's there's a sup, there's a superficial level of connecting, and then there's a very deep nonverbal level of connecting that I actually don't even really understand all of why this works the way it does, the actual neuroscience of it or the psychology behind it.

But even in something like you bring up in regards to modeling for instance, right? So I, I remember when I first learned this, And modeling is where I [00:25:00] would physically, try to assume a position similar to you. So if you have your arms crossed, I would cross my arms, right? If you cross your leg, I would cross my leg.

And I actually, I remember doing this. And laughing out loud with a patient. Yes, they had li and they had no idea because it wasn't anything funny. And it was like such a strange, it was such a strange moment and I had to say, oh, I'm sorry. I thought of something I watched last night. And then they asked me what I watched and I had to like quickly try to like make something up.

And it was just a really stupid, weird moment. But the thing is, as I started to do that, I started to realize, cuz I, everybody has people that come in. And they're a little bit, they're not like combative, but they're guarded people, yes. They don't wanna really get into anything that's bothering them.

They're very they shut down a little bit more. And what I found was when I started doing some of these non-verbal things, modeling a little bit more with these people and mirroring what they were doing All of a sudden it was like I could crack that way faster and they would be way [00:26:00] more acceptable of whatever it is that I would say, both from a compliance standpoint, from a plan of care standpoint, just everything I wanted them to do.

Yeah. For the be the best intentions for them. And it was almost like this ninja secret trick that. I knew that nobody else did, and it was just like so fascinating to me. Have you found similar things that have, come your way with adding some of those in person?

Colleen: 100%. I would say the first few times I would go out and would meet with a business owner doing the same exact thing.

Thinking I must look like such an idiot. Totally. Who's doing this? This is so dumb. And so same thing. I can't hide my facial reactions at times. I'm very good at. Sometimes, but when you're just like, get into the mindset of where you're trying to be. So you're channeling your inner charisma, trying to think of what mindset you wanna be in so you can portray it.

So same thing, like you're just like smiling and you just can't stop laughing. What's so funny? Nothing.

Danny: Yeah. But also the mental side of it. Have you noticed, or do you tell yourself anything [00:27:00] at all before you go into a meeting or something that maybe we would normally get like a little bit of anxiety with that helps you get your mindset in a better place. This is

Colleen: so silly, but, so true. Like I mentioned before, lose yourself Eminem. That's my go-to song before anything that I have to do. Like I, this is it, my mindset. Ready to go. Let's go.

Danny: Oh, that's great. So you actually listen. So let's say you have a meeting, right? Let's say you're going to meet some other business owner before you go in there, you're cranking up some m and m in your car.

Oh, 100%. That's great. I love that. That's, I saw this. Firsthand one once when this is the first time. I didn't even know what was going on actually, cuz I was in training with Kelly's group and we had to do a video. This was at the CrossFit games and I don't even remember what year this is.

This is when they were still in California. So at the CrossFit games and we're having to do a video for mobility wa for the YouTube channel. And I remember him saying, all right, magic time. And I was like, magic time, fuck is magic time. He said that and all of a sudden his. His mannerisms were different.

His energy level was different. It just quickly [00:28:00] changed. All of a sudden it was like he's, it was like a code word that you say, and then somebody turns into a international spy. It's been like brainwashed. It's like it's the greatest thing. And I, but the thing is, I think for a lot of us tapping into that, it's so powerful and it seems weird, but it really does work.

Versus if you just go in there with no plan, I know what you're gonna talk about, you don't feel confident with yourself, like it never goes

Colleen: well. I totally agree. That goes way back to when I was in PT school before we had any big exam or practical, I would always go to listen to m and then the boards came up.

That was my jam. So I you were saying if there's something that you think about, like that just gets me in the zone. I was a triathlete Not a triathlete, but I did three spars in high school, and so before any big game, that's where it would go. So it gets me, amped up, ready, let's go.

I'm ready for battle.

Danny: I call that an actual athlete. You're, you were a real athlete, not an endurance athlete. I like that. Yeah. For you I'm very interested. To learn and probably everybody listening to this. Where are you now?[00:29:00] So like your business currently it's been a little over a year or right outta year, I guess October is is when you really got going. When you left your job. So you're year in. What is your, what do you, what is your day-to-day look like now? What's your week look like? Just from a, patient standpoint and what you're doing for the business. And then we can get into.

The side of like how different the clinical side of things are

Colleen: for you. So I would say the transition from working for someone else full-time and you just show up for all clinical hours to having all the freedom in the world was a wonderful transition, but also difficult. I'm very structured, so to have free end of time is very not hard to manage, but also I feel like I'm not doing enough.

That was always my problem. Yeah. I am getting all my systems in place doing my face-to-face meetings, I am doing, whatever, but I just never felt like that was enough, so that was really hard for me to adjust to because I just, all right, I'm trying to get patients, so [00:30:00] as long as we've been in business, neither one of us had worked in Wilmington, so we had to start from zero, find our, go out network, have people know who we are.

Cuz as long as we've lived here, we, like I said, worked an hour north and an hour south of where we live. Yeah. So that was the hardest part. I'm a very extroverted kind of person, but to have to throw yourself at people hi, I own my own business now. Would you like to do business like, Yeah.

Oh, that was terrible. It's so hard, right? Oh, so hard. We meet new people all the time, so why is it any different? But it's just, it's a different layer of, I guess in terms of this is my business now. Where before I'd be like, oh, yeah, whatever. I'm just going out to, I was told to come here, but now you have to do it.

To answer your question, I would say I still am trying to do four hours of marketing. Just try to, Still build and nourish the relationships. I will say that seems easier than it is because everyone is on their own time. Everyone is so incredibly busy [00:31:00] that it is almost impossible to get in touch with people.

So that was also frustrating too okay, so it's been three months now. Why is no one answering me? Yeah, I drop in and people get pissed off because they're like, hi, I'm working. Who are you?

Danny: Yeah. So speak to that a little bit because I think the. The thing that I struggled with this too, a hundred percent in a new area, I think it's way harder.

This isn't necessarily a new area for you, but it really is because you didn't know anybody in that area, right? And you, where you guys had been working wasn't exactly the area where you were at. So you're basically starting from scratch and. It's probably the biggest, I think it's the biggest challenge but also the area that I learned the most when it came to as I look back I look back at lessons, I learned mistakes that I made.

They were typically involved in the first six to 12 months in regards to really marketing, understanding how to communicate with other people, how to provide value to other businesses[00:32:00] and ultimately, Getting over go. Getting over the frustration of knowing that I was a good clinician and I really could help people get better, but I just needed them to get come see me, which was, yes.

That's the hard part. So for you, Barry, you know what would you say. You learned during that time? Cause obviously you're still doing some of it, but it's probably far easier and less less stressful, less maybe even you take it maybe less. Personally. I think it's very easy for people to do that early on.

What, what did, what have you learned through all that?

Colleen: I agree. Going back to books too, shortly before we started our business, I've read the four agreements and one of them is do not take anything personal. That was wonderful to make sure, okay. Don't take it personally that people are not answering, you don't take it personally that people are brushing you off when you show up at their gym.

So I feel like for me it's a lot easier. Definitely. I think trying to get the trainers in to let them see what we can provide to them so they can experience it [00:33:00] firsthand. We want people to know that they're in good hands and that we are gonna have a follow through, and that you, are you, I feel like it's very different from working in a hospital or outpatient based, where these people are like family to us.

Yeah, so I feel like that is, that makes it so much more personable and it makes it easier for people to want to come see us, because they know they're not just another number. Cuz they've had a bad experience at the inpatient, in-network clinic. So they're like, wow, you actually listen.

It's yeah, of course.

Danny: Yeah. I think that's a good way of phrasing it because when you have less people, you have more time with each of those people to actually. Get to know them, but also to listen a lot more. And yeah. And that's a rare thing, I think for any healthcare interaction.

It is a, typically, they're late, it's super short. They don't remember who you are, they don't know anything about you. They don't know, they don't remember typically [00:34:00] you that well. And they're usually very rushed. And they're they seem stressed and swamped. And I, yes. When I worked in a high volume setting, I felt that way too.

I remember the only way, and they would tell us this when I was in the Army make sure you're documenting while you're talking to people. And yes, I always thought, I was like, this is such a bad way. Like this person's over here telling me all these problems with them, and I'm just like clicking away at a computer.

I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. Lemme go onto the next bullet. Because I have to do this. It's okay. And yeah. Mechanisms of injury. Okay. And that's that. All right. And then there's no rapport really that gets developed whatsoever. You don't really have time to let somebody talk and let you let them express the frustrations they have.

For you, at this point, how would you say, Your satisfaction clinically is cause I think, take everything outta the equation, like in regards to time freedom and financial differences, but just clinically, from where you were at a year ago to where you're at now, zero to 10, what was your satisfaction level clinically at your old job and zero to 10, what's [00:35:00] your clinic, what's your satisfaction clinically with your current, business that you

Colleen: have?

I would say a year ago, my clinical satisfaction was probably, I'm gonna be generous and say five, because I still enjoyed what I did. But just the hustle and bustle that I was just beyond burnt out now, I would say a 15. Honestly, I can't even speak to, that sounds so ridiculous. And I like laugh at myself saying that out loud too, cuz it's like, You were such not this is, you're not gonna do this, you're not gonna open up your business, you're not gonna be successful.

Why would you do that? You work for someone, you get good p t o, you get, and then you retire. So this is never on my radar, so I can't even tell you how much more satisfaction as a clinician, let alone everything else. That falls underneath that seriously, because you can be present. I can see a full day of clients and I can still go home and feel like I just started my day.

Yeah. I can't even think of the last time I felt like that as a PT of [00:36:00] 10 years. I. Honestly can't Maybe as a new grad. Yeah. But that was very short-lived because people kept on dying on me. Yeah. I'm like,

Danny: what am I doing? You discharged a lot of patience for life. You're like, you're literally, that's amazing.

But, I love that. This is the aspect that I actually talking about more than anything. We, so here's what I've found. We have to it's almost like the hook, the bait. Is there's financial implications here that obviously that you can make more than you can working for somebody else and exponentially more if you grow your business.

Up to a bigger size. But even a size where you are, where you're just, you're working on your own and you can replace your income plus some and you can do it in a fairly short period of time. And that's cool cuz that checks a box that everybody needs. But the thing that people.

That I love about it more than anything. And the thing that doesn't seem, people don't seem to realize the difference that we're talking about until they feel it themself is the sheer level of satisfaction [00:37:00] of knowing that like your. Like all these courses that you went to and your credentials and all these letters you have behind your name, all the shit that you learned as a nerd, like we all are, we wanna be better.

We get to use that to the capacity that we have, and we don't ever have to question whether it's us or it's the other person or the environment of why somebody's getting better or not. And at the end of the day, you're not drowning in notes. You're not having to call some, insurance companies so they can tell you yes or no, that you can do a thing you know you need to do.

And by the time that you're done your energy level is you're not just beat down. And so when you go home, you have far more to give everybody else in your family. Outside of work that we just take for granted because we just assume everybody's tired at the end of the day. Everybody wants to take a nap at three o'clock.

No, not everybody does. Only people that are pseudo depressed wanna do that. Yes. And that's what most people are doing for their entire career.

Colleen: That resonates with me so much. I. Because I was having to work weekends and holidays. [00:38:00] Not every single weekend, not every single holiday, but on a rotation.

And so that just gets old. I, we have not been blessed with children. We went through infertility for years, and so I just got tired of having to be the one always to work on holiday. Yeah. Because we didn't have kids. And I'm okay with that. I wanna help a hand. Someone that can work. So it wasn't always so strict like that.

But in my years, 10 years, I was always the one that had to, oh, here we go. I'm so grateful that I can live my life the way that I wanna live. And, just the extra time that I get back, I used to spend 10 plus hours a week just commuting. Yeah. So now I'm like, what do I do with all this free time?

This is so weird. Oh, I can work out. Oh, I can read. Oh, I can mock my dogs and this is so wonderful. It is just like you said, resonates with me so much that I never thought that this was possible. So it's so strange to feel like I wake up every day so excited wow, I literally am living the dream.

Like [00:39:00] I always used to say that sarcastically. I know a lot of people that do know me would hear me say that, but now I really have truth behind that. I really am living the dream. Yeah. I never thought that this was possible to have a balance of working a job that you love and having a life that you also compliment and

Danny: love.

Yeah. Yeah. It's weird, right? It's so weird. I wish more people could do that. Yes. Most people that I know, Some of them really what they do and it could be anything like, I, I have a friend that's an accountant and dude, he loves spreadsheets. He loves it, he loves reconciling, accounting bookkeeping sheets and he loves taxes and he loves it.

That's his thing. That's like what he he would look at us, he's oh, back pain. No, I don't wanna talk to anybody about that. It's that's weird. Why would you wanna do that? But for us, we love that and we just yeah. Are fortunate enough to have found it. And just the ability to really enjoy what you do and have control over when you're doing it and who you're working with, I think is just such a rare thing.

And when we look at burnout in the profession, I'm, and I'm not saying this is the right path for everybody, cuz I don't think that it [00:40:00] is. I think that the vast majority of people, Make great employees and they can be happy with that, and they can have a, they can have a compartmentalized life where, They, their job, they like it, it's okay.

And then they, they have their hobbies and their friends and the other things they like to do outside of it. And I think that's, there's, that's just a nothing wrong with that. But I think for the person that can make this work where, like you alluded to a retirement earlier, right?

Like the idea of retirement is different to me now. It's like, why would I stop? This is awesome. Like what? Yes. This was just and I'll tell you what got me. I. We were approached from a big group out of out of Michigan to potentially acquire our practice. This was probably five years ago, and I went up there.

I met their CEO and I went to a few of their locations. And what I thought was interesting was every one of the owners of the locations that they took me to when they found out that I had a cash-based practice. I went to three of them. Two of the three literally said this. They said, oh, when I retire, I'm gonna open a cash-based practice.

[00:41:00] And oh, and I left there and I decided this is not the right move for us. I'm not selling to these people. I thought maybe we could help our employees and grow bigger. And I was like, This is silly. I have what they want already. Why would I switch that up? And I thought that was such an interesting thing.

They were like, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna, this is what I'm gonna do when I retire because this feels like a job. And that's gonna feel like fun. And you get to have fun and, make a living at the same time, which is really

Colleen: rare. Absolutely. I totally agree with that. Totally agree.

Danny: Yeah. So I, here's what I'm interested with you we have next, this is relevant cuz next week is our live event, right?

So yeah. And when you get around a group of. Clinicians and clinical entrepreneurs in particular, it's just like a, it's hard to describe the energy Yes. Of that, right? What has been your favorite part of getting a chance to meet and interact with some of these other clinical entrepreneurs that you yourself, are one of now?

Colleen: I will say everyone is at a different point in their career in terms of I feel like I'm a veteran PT compared to [00:42:00] some of these people that are just starting. So I feel like it's been nice to learn from so many different kinds of entrepreneurs at different spots in their PT career. Not even necessarily their entrepreneur career, but it's just been so fun just to feel the vibrations of everyone's.

Passion for, like their job and, helping people and just making a difference, right? You have built a legacy and every one of us are all trying to just chip away at our own, and so that is very, such a wonderful experience. Like you said, there's, it's a hard way to put words on it because.

You have to be there to experience it, to really be able to feel the love. But it's a great community that I never would have ever thought I needed or would benefit from. But now I'm like, oh, I can't imagine my life any other way. Yeah.

Danny: It's so weird. It's I dunno best way to describe it because it's.

It's just a it's a no ego environment, it's a, it's, yes and that's a hard place, that's a rare thing in the clinical world because I, we love nothing more than tell each [00:43:00] other we're wrong and cite research of why, yes. Like we love doing that and we love chopping each other down.

Constantly and none of that shit's in allowed. Don't do that around us. Like it doesn't happen, right? You wanna do that, go get on Twitter and yell at somebody. Don't do that in our environment. And it's just such a fun place to be able to have people that are openly sharing, that have similar aspirations for what they wanna do clinically, but also with their business.

And to see the different stages is, I think, really, it's really fun for me to look down and see okay Yeah, here's where Colleen is now, and somebody that's maybe been in longer and they've had their business for a few years and here's where they are. And then you get to see, oh, okay, here's the breadcrumb trail of what they did to get there.

And and also meet them and realize that they're just like you, so they're not on some Pedestal if I could never do what they're doing, if that's what I decide I wanted to, I want to do. So it's really fun to watch that, watch those interactions and and yeah, so I love your perspective on that cuz I think it's, it can be intimidating in some ways too, to show up and be like, whoa, who the hell are all these people?

And they're all like, really successful. Where do, why am I here? [00:44:00] And that imposter syndrome starts to, take over.

Colleen: You are saying the words that I was thinking as you're talking imposter syndrome, absolutely intimidating. Absolutely. Yeah. When I went to the first Mastermind back in March, we were only five months into business, and so of course I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I have nothing to say or add to this conversation to anyone, but even people that have been in business five years, 10 years, or even just six months, just like I was.

Everyone was so supportive and so welcoming that it did not make you feel intimidated at all. Oh, you're the newbie on the, in the school. No, everyone was so welcoming early on and that was something that you can't put a price tag on or can't put words on either. I

Danny: think, I love the idea of knowing when to lead and when to follow.

I'm sure your husband sees this with the marine group that he's working with. It is constantly would beat into my head whenever when I was in the military, it's like, You, in certain cases you're the leader and in certain cases you gotta shut [00:45:00] up. Yes. And listen and do what this other person says.

Cuz somebody might and they literally, you might outran them, but they might know a lot more than you about this thing. And that's, it just comes down to. Confidence without arrogance, right? It's like you have to ha, you have to have humility as well in those situations and in somebody like yourself, like you said, clinically, right?

Like somebody might be talking about something business related and you're just listening, you're absorbing. But they might start talking about a patient that is a. A, a case that they just can't figure out. And all of a sudden you're like, hang on now I feel right. Very good here, let's chat and this, and you'll see the weirdest shit.

I saw somebody doing a vestibular exam on somebody on a rock outside of one of the locations that we were at in Texas a couple years ago. And it's, but it's a bunch of clinical nerds in there that all just happened known in their own businesses. So it is it really funny unique environment in a lot of ways.

I wanna wrap it up with where you guys are. Going with with Paradigm, like what's what do you want this to be? Is it gonna be a lifestyle business so that you can stay where you're at and be happy and have a lot of balance and and just like cruise from [00:46:00] here?

Or are you interested in trying to grow it more than that? Maybe Sean gets more involved going forward. What's your vision? What does it look like over the next few years?

Colleen: Our vision is definitely to have it as a business, not just a lifestyle business. So within the next year, I hope much less than that Sean will join us full-time and then, expand from our space that we have and to really make it our own standalone space with a lot of other employees underneath us.

Yeah, that's

Danny: cool. I love that. The combo too. The husband wife combo, I'm obviously very biased cuz. With, Ashley and I starting starting our practice together. It's not just the inherent trust of the other person, but also it's the Like he doesn't have to ask for time off, even though you can take time off whenever you want.

And if he gets denied, then you're like shit, I, yeah. Am I going on a trip by myself cause I'm still going.

Colleen: Yes. We've had that conversation

Danny: already. Yeah. You never, and I think that's like the best part, it's the complete time freedom of two people that like spending time together and want to do that as much as they can.

Both in the work environment as well as outside of it.[00:47:00] And I think, I don't even know what that's worth. It's, it is one of the best perks of working together. And there's obviously some things that can be challenging too when you're spending time in a work environment, home environment.

And it can be some overlap of is this a work conversation? Is this a relationship conversation? Like in finding your stride with that maybe sometimes can be a bit challenging, but I think the ultimate time stay over it Is huge and he's got an awesome job. He also has to look at I like what I'm doing over here, but this outweighs, what I enjoy about that.

And that probably is a really pretty tough decision.

Colleen: I would say navigating this pro whole process with him by my side on the journey with me has been the biggest blessing too. Yeah. Something I also never thought would be a job title that we would have together also is so exciting and so fun.

And like you said, showing up to work with your person. I couldn't imagine doing it any

Danny: other way. Yeah. No, for sure. Okay last thing just to end with you were a clinician for was it 10 years before you made the transition. Okay. And I think there's a lot of people [00:48:00] in this five to 10 year time timeline that they start to feel it, they start to feel the burnout.

They start to feel the sort of, the stagnant. Development of their career and they look at their bosses and they're like I don't know if I wanna do that. And that was for me, that's exactly what happened. Whenever I was in the Army, I saw what my bosses were doing. I was like, that looks miserable.

I don't, and I'm getting closer and closer to that. If I make rank and continue to get promoted, that's exactly what I'm gonna be doing. And it just, for me, it just wasn't, it. I think there's a lot of people that feel that and they never act on it. And for you, you never thought you would and you did.

And. It sounds like it's worked out really well. So what advice would you give for somebody that is, that's feels burnt out is unsure of what to do, and is feeling a bit, torn as to where they should take their career, very similar to where you were at just a year ago.

Colleen: I would say if this is something that you're thinking about and you have the hardworking ethic and the resilience to, know that it's gonna be hard in a different way, this is [00:49:00] your sign to do it.

I never would've thought that this would be where I'm at. I never thought that this would be what my life could be. So if this is something that you're thinking about doing, Once you make that decision, the rest is easier. It's not easy, but the rest is easy to follow behind making that initial jump.

Danny: Wow.

No,

Colleen: That's pretty much with big risks. Yeah, with big risk takes big re results. So I never would have been here, I never would be talking with you had I not made that big jump and best thing

Danny: ever. Yeah. And I always, I always try to look at something as. Am I just, am I afraid of something or something truly dangerous, right?

The fear associated with putting yourself out there and trying to do your own thing. And ultimately if it doesn't work, it's more embarrassing than it is anything else. It's not, yeah, dangerous. Trying to pick up a cobra is dangerous and you trying to do something on your own.

There's fear. [00:50:00] But if it doesn't work out, you're very employable and you can always go back and get another job. And yeah, maybe with your tail between your legs you go back. But at least you tried, at least, yes. And at least you knew. Cuz if you get to a point where you're, you just can't do it anymore.

There's the unknown, there's this regret of oh, I didn't even, I don't even know if I could have done it. Maybe who knows what you could have done. You just basically, Decided you were going to settle for whatever you were at and do that for the rest of your life.

And that's actually, I find that very sad. Like for

Colleen: people that it's so sad. Ugh, that makes me sick. To relive those moments to say, okay, this is what my life is gonna be for the rest. Ugh, no

Danny: thanks. Yeah. Okay. Where can people find out about find out more about your practice? Maybe somebody out there is listening to this and they're like, I would love to work for this lady.

She sounds awesome. You're gonna be hiring pretty soon. Like where do they go? Where can they learn more?

Colleen: Paradigm performance therapy.com or we're on social media. Facebook and Instagram. Same paradigm Performance therapy.

Danny: Cool.[00:51:00] Colleen thanks so much for your time. I'll see you here really soon.

So we can yeah. I'm so excited in person. Thank you. Ashley will be there so you can meet her finally making it to a live event. And and I look forward to to seeing you there and I just really appreciate your time. So thank you so much for chatting today.

Colleen: Thank you so much.

So grateful for you and so grateful for this experience.

Danny: Awesome. Guys, hope you liked this one shirt. If you did, this is a great story and I'm so glad we could highlight it. And as always, thanks for listening to the podcast and we'll catch you next week.

What's up, PT Entrepreneurs? We have a new exciting challenge for you guys. It's our five day PT biz part-time to full-time challenge where we help you get crystal clear on how to actually go from a side hustle. To a full-time clinic, even if you haven't started yet. This is a great way to get yourself organized in preparation for eventually going full-time into your business.

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So this is a one-way channel. I'd love to hear back from you. I'd love to get you into the group that we have formed on Facebook. Our PT Entrepreneurs Facebook group has about. 4,000 clinicians in there [00:53:00] that are literally changing the face of our profession. I'd love for you to join the conversation, get connected with other clinicians all over the country.

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