E707 | The Massive Value Of An Exit Interview

In this podcast episode, Doc Danny explores the importance of conducting exit interviews when employees leave a company. He acknowledges that employee turnover is common and shares that exit interviews can provide valuable feedback to improve the organization.

During an exit interview, creating a safe and comfortable environment is crucial for the departing employee to provide candid feedback. The host advises business owners to be open-minded and not defensive when receiving constructive criticism. He suggests asking questions like what the company can do differently, what it does well that should be emphasized, and how the employee's role could be redesigned.

The goal of these interviews is to gather insights that can help identify areas for improvement in company culture, compensation, job responsibilities, and leadership style. Dismissing feedback can lead to a cycle of high turnover, with new hires leaving for similar reasons.

The podcast also emphasizes the importance of providing constructive feedback to employees being let go. This feedback can help them understand the reasons for termination and potentially improve their behavior in future roles. The host encourages delivering this feedback with empathy and a focus on the employee's best interests.

Overall, the podcast stresses the value of exit interviews as a tool for business owners to gain insights, improve leadership and management practices, and create a positive and productive work environment. The host advises approaching these conversations with an open mind and a genuine desire to learn and grow.

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: When you look in the mirror, there's a common denominator there. It's you're doing something wrong. You are leading people. In a manner that they don't want to stick around for. You're building compensation models in a way they don't want to stick around for. Your culture is not great. Hey, are you a physical therapist looking to leverage your skillset in a way that helps you create time and financial freedom for yourself and your family?

If so, you're in the right spot. My name is Danny Matei. Over the last 15 years, I've done pretty much everything you can in the profession. I've been a staff PT. I've been an active duty military officer, physical therapist. I've started my own cash practice. I've sold that cash practice. And today my company physical therapy business helped over a thousand clinicians start growing scale, their own cash practices.

So if this sounds like something you want to do, listen up, cause I'm here to help you. Hey, what's going on? Dr. Danny here with the PT entrepreneur podcast. And today we're talking about exit interviews. What's an extra interview. Why do you want to have an exit interview and really what can you learn from it?

So it's inevitable. You will hire people. You will. Fire people you'll have people that leave, and they decide that they want to take a job somewhere else or do something different. And sometimes we look at turnover, just like the worst thing, dang it, I just thought these people would come and they'd work in my clinic forever.

And then, like they would just retire here 30 years later. That's not typically going to be the case. It's actually very unlikely that anybody does that. Especially now, like my dad spent 25 years in the army and then he spent 22 years in a government hospital and he's Unicorn of a person when it comes to the average employer these days, the average employee these days, right?

He's older this is a mentality I think shift currently where it's normal to take different jobs and get different experience and and so you're not gonna get somebody like that. And if you do it's very unlikely that As well as, the type of people that a lot of folks are hiring, they're looking for people that are like, really a players they want to be in a, an environment that's like very high they're, the culture is high achievers.

Like those kinds of people also are, you know, a specific example, I recently had a conversation with one of our mastermind members that lost a clinic, a clinician, a great clinician to a professional organization. Hard to compete with pro sports, if that's what somebody wants to do, and they want to see what that world is like.

And, just in my experience and having worked with professional teams and having friends that are, have been in pro sports. Professional sports for quite a while. It is a tough lifestyle. There's some really cool things about it and there's some really challenging things about it. So no, not for everybody, but sometimes you got to figure out what you want to do and what fits your lifestyle.

Having somebody that leaves to go to a team like that, not much you can do about it. So as far as someone leaving and somebody going to a different employer, you want to make sure that you do an exit interview. This is whether they leave on their own accord or if you have to let them go.

And the reason is. This is the opportunity where you're probably going to get the most honest feedback from somebody that's worked with you. And you got to be okay with getting honest feedback, meaning don't get frustrated if they give you feedback that is constructive and you might feel it's, I don't know, maybe it's directed to you or don't, it's personally something or whatever, like you can't take direct feedback.

First of all, you can't ask for direct feedback and then get frustrated if someone gives you direct feedback. Like you just got to be okay with that. And you've got to realize that this is an opportunity for you to improve areas that might be creating problems for not just this staff member, but other staff members that you can change.

And some things you very well might not need to change and shouldn't change. It could be one person's opinion of one specific thing that really. Shouldn't change, but it's just their opinion and they don't maybe see the bigger picture of why you're doing something a certain way. But oftentimes you're going to get really good feedback about, things that if they were to stay, they wish it would have been, maybe different, or they wish that this, the structure of their schedule was different or their pay comp or benefits, or maybe it's like involvement in some of the marketing that they just wish they didn't have to do and stuff like that.

So being able to get. True feedback. Hey, what is something that you wish we would do differently? What is something that you think that we do really well, that we should lean into more? If you could redesign your role, like what would an ideal role look like? What would you be doing?

How many patients would you be seeing all that given opportunity kind of talk about, and also say is there anything that you feel like I need to know is there anything I could have done better and I honestly want to know so that I don't make any mistake, any other mistakes going forward, if I can help that and avoid that and.

Be open to the feedback because this is where you get a chance to not make the mistake, the same mistake again. And I've seen this now on a number of occasions with people that we've worked with as clients and they are unwilling to change the, it is, it's an ego issue. They feel like they know what's they know what's best.

They don't want to listen to their employees and the feedback that they give them about what they wish was different or could be improved. And they just dismiss. Their opinions, because they think they know what's best. And the end result of that is continual turnover for those companies. There's people that are leaving and then they get somebody else in and then that person leaves and then they get somebody else in and that person leaves and they were making the same mistake over and over again.

And when you look in the mirror, there's a common denominator there. It's you're doing something wrong. You are leading people on. In a manner that they don't want to stick around for you're building Compensation models in a way. They don't want to stick around for your culture is not great And better to know these things and maybe it hurts your feelings Then not know them and it hurts your business long term.

So when somebody leaves Take the time to sit down with them, make them feel comfortable and okay with giving you their opinion. And you got to keep in mind, they're leaving, they're going to be the most direct and honest with you because they don't have to bump into you again. And it's awkward or whatever they're literally leaving.

So they're going to be as honest as they're ever going to be in this situation. If you give them the opportunity to be honest and not be defensive about what they're saying, that's the key. Do not say, yeah, I really would like your feedback. And then when they give you feedback, you try to justify why you're doing things the way that you say you're doing things, keep it to yourself.

It doesn't matter if they're leaving. They don't care. They don't give a shit. That's the point. And then you can start to look at it from a 30, 000 foot view, take their feedback and say, damn, are they right? Am I seeing this create a problem with other people? Is this something that I need to write the ship of this?

Because if you don't, then you're going to have the same problem over and over again. I feel the same way about an individual that's leaving where I want to give them some constructive feedback as well. Because for me, if they're doing something, And they're getting let go for something. This is different.

If they're leaving they're taking another job or they just decided that they want to not work there anymore, that's different. But if you're letting somebody go, I think it's very important for you to let them know why and what they could have done differently, what your expectations were, and sometimes it's our fault, like that we just aren't giving them the right structure, or maybe we hired incorrectly for the role, but if there's something going on that you're letting them go for, you should let them know why.

Because again, if they go somewhere else and they're, and they don't know that what they're doing is creating problems in the work environment, then they're going to continue to do that. So what good are you doing to them by not telling them? And all you're doing is avoiding a little bit of discomfort that long term can create even more problems for this person.

So if you really actually cared about that person, you got to be honest with them and tell them it's just like with my kids. If my kids are doing something annoying, I have to tell them. Why that's annoying and why they need to change that because one of the most important things an adult can have is likeability from other people and that means being able to interact with people in the world and them want to interact with you and if you are socially, a pariah your life sucks and nobody wants to be around you and that's isolating and depressing.

So but that might be uncomfortable because you might make your kid cry. They might think that you're mean, whatever it is you have to be able to have a conversation with people in a way that is not it's not mean it is just the truth and try to explain to them, what's going on.

How this is going to benefit them. And also I think if you can create a culture where people can be honest with each other and they can actually tell each other what they're thinking it without being an asshole, because we all know the people that are just like, it'll tell you exactly what's on their mind and they tell you exactly what everybody's doing wrong and they have no filter and that's.

Different that's being an asshole. You have to have some amount of grace and understanding for how you're phrasing things with people. And especially if you come from a place where it's legitimately so that it's what's best for them. And also what's best for your business to get this sort of feedback at an exit interview, you've got to do it because it's, it is a gold mine of you being able to improve your business.

And the whole point of these failures that you have, it's not to make them over and over again. It's to literally fall forward into a better position. Like you're going to stumble and fall. You get back up, but you've taken a step forward at least whenever you got back up because you're making progress and you don't, and there may be certain things about yourself that you need to change.

And I think that's the hardest thing for entrepreneurs in particular is when they start a business, they don't realize that the. Biggest limiting factor for their ability to grow a business is actually themselves, their own personality, their own worldviews, their own ability to communicate with other people.

That's it. That is the biggest constraint that you're going to find. And good thing for you is you can actually improve that. If you're willing to improve that, but you got to also be willing to accept the fact that you suck at certain things. And maybe there's parts of your personality that come from who knows where your upbringing or experiences you've had that maybe aren't all that healthy for you.

And they're probably affecting other areas of your life as well. So what if, what a fucking amazing opportunity to take a business that shows you all the things that are good and bad about yourself and you can start to improve. The things that are maybe holding you back and you can lean into the strength that you have.

And that just spills over into your relationships and into, your daily life the people around you, your friends and family, and your community. And you become a better person because of it, if you're okay with it. So this is a great opportunity on next interview to get direct feedback.

That's going to help you as a person. It's going to help your business and be open to it. Be okay with. Constructive criticism that people are going to give you and ask for it, right? Ask for it. Give them a safe place. Don't argue with them about why they're wrong. Just take it and think about it for a little while and see if they actually are wrong, or if it's just your ego, this telling you that they're wrong and that you're right, and don't worry about them.

They don't know what they're talking about. They're leaving anyway. That's not going to get you anywhere. You got to be willing to take that criticism because it is one of the Best places to actually make significant progress in your business and continue to evolve as a leader and improve your culture.

And these people are going to be as honest as they ever will be right before they leave, because they ain't going to see you again. And that's why an exit interview is so important.

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