E460 | Transitioning From Insurance To Cash With Danny Laughlin

Great podcast with Danny Laughlin talking all things hybrid practice, recurring revenue, and continuity plans.

Danny has one of the fastest-growing performance cash practices in the country. Enjoy!

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Podcast Transcript

Danny Matta: [00:00:00] So there's all kinds of hidden fees within your business that are just part of doing business. One of those is credit. Processing and for us, we didn't even realize how much we were paying in credit card processing with the first management software we were using for our practice. And when we switched over to PT everywhere, we just realized we were saving literally hundreds of dollars a month with credit card processing with their partner with Card point versus who we were using with our prior.

Software. This has made a massive difference. It's more than paid for itself. It allows us to decrease our overhead. It allows us to have more cash flow to reinvest in our people, in our technology, in our facility, in marketing and everything that's gonna drive the business. So don't get abused by credit card processing companies.

Make sure you're paying what you should pay. And if you're looking for a management software, highly recommend PT everywhere directly integrates. Processor makes it very easy and their rates are super, super competitive. So it's saved us a ton of money and it probably will do the same for you if you don't know what you are getting charged.

So head over to PT everywhere. Take a look at what they've [00:01:00] got. I think you really like it. So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't wanna see 30 patients a day, who don't wanna work home health and have real student loans create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about?

This is the question, and this podcast is the answer. My name's Danny Matte, and welcome to the PT Entrepreneur Podcast.

What's going on guys? Doc Danny here with the PT Entrepreneur Podcast to get another Danny on the podcast today. Danny Laughlin of Laughlin performance and Physical Therapy in Overland Park, Kansas. Dan, my daughter asked me this. She said, why is your name Daniel, but yet people call you Danny?

And I said, that's what they did when I was a kid. Why but you go by Danny. Why do you keep it? I'm in.

Danny Laughlin: I, so same thing, Daniel. Daniel means I'm in trouble at this stage of the game. My two [00:02:00] year old has started referring to Daniel Laughlin when she is upset with me and not happy. Yeah, so that's really fun.

But no, growing up my folks called me Danny and Dan never really. Yeah. Dan never really felt right. My wife calls me Dan if I'm really crabby. Wow. But sounds like a crabby guy's name. Danny's just a, laid back fun name. Yeah. So it, I just tried to fit that personality.

You're the fun

Danny Matta: guy, dude. That's the, that's what I told my wife the same thing. I'm like, it's too late to change now, but I, me, if you're like a 90 year old man and your name is Danny That's pretty awesome. Just gotta, people are gonna like you no matter what,

Danny Laughlin: right? Yeah, that's right.

That's what I'm

Danny Matta: banking on. That's right. That's it. Let's do this. We'll get off of our poor name choice by our parents where it could go many different directions and we'll talk some business because for those of you don't know Danny has a hybrid practice. He's been on the podcast before.

He's somebody who's been in our mastermind for a while and really I think is doing one of the better [00:03:00] jobs with these h performance-based hybrid practices in the country, especially having made the transition from being completely in-network to the cash model. And if you are interested in hearing his story on that.

I'm not gonna dive into that today cuz we, we've already talked about it. But I think. You can listen to that and get a really clear idea of why, as well as how, he made that, that transition. And where are you guys at now? Percentage wise? Cash versus insurance.

Danny Laughlin: We're about 60 insurance, 40 cash.

And our ultimate goal when we joined was to get to 50 50 and we're gonna be there within the next six months.

Danny Matta: Close. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. And I kind of wanna. We did a what's working with you within our mastermind and they got a lot of really good feedback from that.

And we do that. Sometimes we'll highlight, people that we think are doing a really good job and an individual component piece of the business model. And for you for sure the sort of continuity, ongoing cash-based services, which I think really any in-network pro provider. Has to look at, I just don't know if there's a choice at this point for them to be able to be in business without [00:04:00] committing insurance fraud and actually make it work.

So I think for you in explain this kind of briefly, if you can, in terms of, that. That moment you realized like, this isn't working. What was it that, forced you to be like, I've gotta find a different way than just the traditional in-network model?

Danny Laughlin: It was probably, I think I reached out to you.

My wife originally bought me the book because she heard the movement, maestro talking about it, and so bought it. She said, Hey, I think you should read this. Read it. And I think I read it in a day and then I think reached out to you and then tried to cancel on our meeting. Cuz I was like, I don't think I fit this model at all.

I don't know how this would ever work. I didn't know that. That's funny. Yeah. I think I canceled. And then I think you you sent a nice email and you're like, Hey man, no, let's at least jump on a call and see and But the moment for me was we had this practice and we had, three other practitioners working for us.

And my wife and I were pulling money out of our savings account to cover payroll cuz our [00:05:00] AR was so backed up. We had gotten into a legal battle with our billing group who had completely dropped the ball on our insurance charges. And so we were backdated, I think almost six months. And we were pulling money out of our personal account to cover our payroll and that's when I just said I can't, we can't live like this anymore.

This business can't operate like this anymore. So

Danny Matta: I feel like that is a common problem with a lot of in-network practices and what people may not even realize ar is accounts receivable. So that's money that you have, you've earned and billed for, but have. Received yet. What's the, currently, what's the current turnaround time for you guys with insurance contracts you have on average for you to get paid for services that you've rendered?

Danny Laughlin: Be it's been better because our insurance billings are way. Less than what they were, two and a [00:06:00] half years ago. Our turnaround is about 32

Danny Matta: days. Yeah. But even still, I think that's the thing that, so when we look at this hybrid model, what's so nice about it is let's say 40%. Cash, 60% insurance, but you have a lag time of a month where, you're basically playing catch up to get that money, but then you have this money, you get day one, as soon as you're like, or even before you sell a package and you're actually prepay.

So in a lot of ways, It seems like it takes the roller coaster of what many in network practices deal with, which is this accounts receivable, roller coaster. And I've seen it, I've seen people go outta business that had hundreds of thousands of dollars of accounts receivable on the books, but their cash ran out and they were out of business.

And it's, so I think for you guys, like I would assume it levels out that that up and down quite some,

Danny Laughlin: it stabilized our cash flow. Like within a couple months of implementing the kind of the continuity stuff. Yeah. And that's what's been nice, is it's also [00:07:00] added, we can count on a certain amount of recurring revenue now every month too, where, we're, I'm not watching our.

Accounts other than just, what we do as a, from a management standpoint, but I'm not looking at it going, oh man, I hope this account gets paid this month. So we can cover this and it's the insurance stuff. Like I meet with them, once a month and we go through the AR and we go through all that stuff and we make sure that our, time is still within that, 28 to 32 days.

But outside of that it's not an all-consuming issue anymore because our, the cash flow is much more reliable, which in turn just adds a lot of stability to what we're doing and allowed us to honestly grow and add, two more practitioners over the last two

Danny Matta: years. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, I would love to touch on this a little bit more because I talked to somebody the other day and I, and they're a newer business owner.

They're getting to the point where I think they're bringing a admin on but had not [00:08:00] hired a staff member yet. And, they're, it's I think it's hard for people to make the distinction between, A making a dollar themself and somebody else making a dollar and what that means to the business.

And not every dollar is the same. And when we look at a dollar of recurring revenue, and which you're talking about. Starting the month off basically with your overhead, is gonna be paid, you're starting out at basically zero instead of minus 30,000 or whatever, somebody's overhead might be.

What effect does that have on you as a business owner in terms of v l to make, decisions and feeling comfortable with what you're trying to do?

Danny Laughlin: So it's if, if anybody that's been in that position knowing that you have money that you can count on every single month that's gonna come through, that is not necessarily waiting on somebody else to do their job takes a huge amount of load off of you initially.

And honestly the biggest thing that you know, we've worked with in my mastermind group over the last [00:09:00] year is just being able and being comfortable with stepping back from the patient care side and allowing the other practitioners to grow and flourish and build, their clientele up. And in doing so, and it sounds counterintuitive, but by stepping back, the business has actually accelerated.

Even faster. Yeah. Which kind of makes you go apparently I was holding everybody back this whole time. You're the bottleneck dude.

Danny Matta: Yeah, it's, you're always a bot. I, it's so funny cuz I feel like I feel very similar in the businesses that I've started where the exact same thing has happened. And it's ironic because you think to yourself, like in, in some ways you're a unicorn because most people wouldn't have started it or had the the determination to put the effort in and taking the risk, frankly.

That's the thing that oftentimes separates you from the people that are working with your company. We're also the bottleneck of things that we just think we do better than everybody else, or that we want to be able to handle. And instead of being able to build the [00:10:00] systems and manage it and not necessarily do it, then we stop growth from happening.

And it's funny when you're, when you take a step back and all of a sudden you're like, oh shit, maybe I'm not as needed. It can almost make you feel like you don't have a, the, a place anymore, because that's not necessarily what your super.

Danny Laughlin: It's kind of it. It's just, yes, like initially it's that then you're just oh.

I guess, we have, but then you also look at it and go we've done a good job of training everybody up. We've train, we've done a good job of coaching everybody and building their clinical skills and now they're surpassing me. And a long time ago when we were first starting out, my.

Father-in-law who's a he was a high level CFO and he was the one that sat there and ripped apart our business plan for two years before we actually started it. Yeah. He said, ultimately you guys are gonna just want to hire people that are smarter than you. And that's our goal is just we constantly are trying to find people that are smarter than us.

And the challenge for me has. [00:11:00] And I think this is where we really started to grow was, okay, get people smarter than you, but also figure out like what is gonna make them feel fulfilled in their role with our company. What's gonna make them feel happy and recognized and feel like they're really contributing to their profession and their, personal goals as well as, what our company wants to do.

Danny Matta: Yeah. Yeah. Which, for you, it's interesting what you're bringing up is essentially, Transitioning to a leadership role like you are developing people. You are curating relationships. You are you're managing the game of happiness fulfillment at work, as well as, home bleeds over into that as well as just like bigger goals and places that people can move within your company.

In some cases, you almost have to grow to be able to maintain and keep really good people. Otherwise they just they don't have anywhere to go from there and they decide to move on for better or worse, so how has that been for you to move into this very much more like leadership development role?

And what have you had to [00:12:00] learn from it?

Danny Laughlin: It, it's actually, it's been very fulfilling, honestly. It's it's learning a new clinical skill, yeah. Where you I've over the. Probably three years really dove headfirst into a lot of the leadership books and things of that nature.

And just working on, how to communicate with people. One of the best books that I've read, and I'm actually re-listening to it right now, was conscious Coaching, which I think we have from the first mastermind. I, yeah. I just recommended it to. Two other CrossFit gym owners.

I was like, Hey, you gotta have your coaches read this. I'm circling back to it, almost three years later. And, there's still such good pertinent information in here. And really the big thing I've really tried to focus on is just how to communicate with people. And. In doing so, like then you can learn what's their, motivation, what's their motivator what's gonna make them feel like they're satisfied in their [00:13:00] careers and versus just pushing your own agenda on 'em.

And because of that, like we've jumped into some other arenas that you know, I probably, I personally would not have gone into. And it's flourishing right now, so it's.

Danny Matta: I think that, you know the, when we start looking at these skills that we have to acquire the clinical side is like foundational, but very and no offense to high level clinicians, but I'm just talking in the context of business.

It's a low level skill in comparison to where as a business owner you have to evolve to. And that's, that, that's just showing that you're, you can help people, on that level and you, everybody starts there. But then from there, being able to move up to be able to, mentor other clinic.

Clinically be able to hire other people to be able to develop those people as far as like your business goes. And and then ultimately be a high level communicator, not just within your organization, but also within your community for what your vision is and what your mission is, because[00:14:00] If you think about like, how many people are in, Overland Park, Kansas City, whatever, that are hurt right now that are not seeing anybody, it's probably 90% of the people that are dealing with a musculoskeletal injury are literally just ignoring it, and so I think we look at this and it's like, all right what skills can we evolve to? It's like growing, developing your team and also being that person that's constantly beating the drum of your business so that people know that you can help them cuz there's so much work to be done.

We just assume it's just we're all fighting over the same people that know they have a problem are looking for help, which is a fraction, tiny fraction of them, so I think for you, the communication side is huge and Brett's book is really good. And it's very tactical because he worked with high level athletes for, years.

He's worked with thou like literally thousands of N F L athletes who imagine trying to motivate a 22 year old millionaire, like that's not easy, so that's the frameworks she goes over, I think are really.

Danny Laughlin: I, yeah. And that's, I think that's why I was listening to one of his podcast, I think it was a podcast with he and Kelly and Juliet.

Yeah. It was fantastic. And so then I jumped back into his book. But, the [00:15:00] communication I think is just so key because it also, like we've pushed it on our PTs and our staff too, because that's what separates like really good clinicians right at that level as well, is being able to communicate with the patients and communicate on their level versus, we all know people that are 10,000 times smarter than us.

Yeah. But when it comes to like interpersonal, relationships, like they're, it's like talking to a robot, yeah. Any conversation you have with a patient who comes back from a, neurologist or a neurosurgeon like those guys, are you. Freakishly smart. Those guys and gals are crazy smart.

They're way smarter than us, but very rarely is the patient like super excited after walking out of there. And it's, that ability to communicate on the patient's level and, empathize with them and, let them know Hey I'm here to help, that stems from the clinical side.

And that's, I think that is also what's helping just foster that skill in a leadership role now too. Yeah.

Danny Matta: What do you [00:16:00] feel like you guys have implemented as far as, the. The culture side of things the workplace environment side of things. The satisfaction with what they're doing and mission.

They're part of what do you think you guys have done that you're like, man, this has worked out pretty well for us. I'm glad that we initiated this within the company.

Danny Laughlin: We a couple things like I'm pretty when it comes to systems for our PTs, like we talk about, how to frame the patient's, plan of care and what their plan will be like after they're out of pain and once they're, working to the next level of staying healthy for long term.

But we also don't we don't hammer 'em on the little things like everybody in their contract. X amount of days for PT O but I, I honestly couldn't tell you how much p t o anybody takes. Yeah. I have no idea. They just, but we also trust them on a level of Hey, I, I know you're not gonna take two months off but if you want to take, a week for your wedding or whatnot yeah that's fine.

I'm not concerned about that. And [00:17:00] so we, I think the biggest thing is we offer a lot. Freedom and freedom with their schedule too. We've got days where, somebody's gotta leave early to pick up their kids cuz you know somebody's sick and it's oh yeah, no we'll cover your schedule, we'll take care of it.

We'll rebook those people and not. Hammer 'em and I worked at other clinics where it was if you left early, like you had to make those two hours up to the owner or Yeah. Or if you were out of, I think first year I worked, I, took an extra two days on our honeymoon and, then ended up having to like, rework those two days to cover it.

And it's like really, like that's, you're gonna hammer me on two days Yeah, I'm working of seeing 60 patients a day for you. Like seriously and so that, I think mentality is really where we've come in and just said, listen, we trust you guys. We want to give you a certain level of respect. Just understand if abuse that.

Obviously we'll come in and chat about it. But I think just across the board, and same with continuing ed. If someone has a course that they're interested in, [00:18:00] I, we won't hesitate to you. Pay for it. I want them to feel as, as comfortable here as they can. And just know that's not how they're gonna be met if they were to go elsewhere.

Danny Matta: Yeah. Yeah. I think one thing you guys do a really good job of is, Actually allowing your staff to be able to get in, involved in the niche that they have. So talk a little bit about that with your continuity programs and how you guys are doing that and moving people over to that from, in-network.

I'm assuming, visits when they're

Danny Laughlin: hurt. Sure. Yeah, so we've got one of the exercises we did was we had everybody build. Their patient avatar of who do you wanna work with? And from there we said, okay, let's figure out how we get you in front of more people like that. And one of my guys is a, he's a huge CrossFit guy.

He went through, all the Olympic lifting stuff. And so we've got him doing, running a lot of the workshops and, stuff like that afterwards and helping him. Fill his schedule with those types of patients. Two of [00:19:00] my girls are really interested in like youth training and so they're now, they're going out and working with two big volleyball clubs here locally that combine.

I think they've got, Over a thousand to 1500 athletes that they're getting in front of and helping train and consulting on the training programs and doing all the, pre-testing before the sports performance and then post-testing to show changes. And, this is this, they just finished up with the first.

Group did all their pre-screening and I think they ended up getting 15 or 20 girls coming into the clinic Wow. For additional work, after that. And really I think it's more of sitting down and figuring out, okay, who do you want to work with? And okay, once we know that, then it's just building a plan of how do we get you in front of more of those people.

And then how do you. How do you offer value to them once you've gotten them out of pain? I think [00:20:00] that's where probably our biggest hiccup was with our younger staff was what do I do with them once I get 'em out of pain? Yeah. I think that's, in school, that's what we're taught. Get 'em out of pain, send 'em out the door, and if you work in a.

Busy in network practice, like that's what you do. Because once they're out of pain, then you know, insurance goes well, you're performing your normal ADLs without pain. Why are you still in therapy? Yeah. Okay, I guess I should be done. And so really explaining to them no. You guys don't understand, like your baseline knowledge is like a thousand times more about human health than the average person out there.

Yeah. And you don't even, you don't even realize. The stuff that you take for granted, knowing like they don't know, that's where you offer value long term for 'em. And I think that was a big turning point for a lot of 'em. We explained, in, in in our practice, like we all work on each other.

Somebody comes in and they slept [00:21:00] wrong or whatnot. They get worked on like that day. Said, can you imagine what it would be like if you had to wait six or eight weeks? You guys have this at your fingertips. You know exactly what's going on with you. What if you didn't know that?

What if you didn't know that? Oh yeah. It's just a, little facet irritation or, first ribs elevated, so we gotta get it, worked on a little bit. What if you didn't know that? It can be very scary. It can, put a lot of anxiety into somebody's life. These are things that we take for granted that we need to offer this type of care, and this sort of v I P status to our continuity people who, that's what they want.

They want to be able to, if they are. Checking in with you, make sure they're doing all the right stuff. But if they're in a bind, like they want to know that they can get in really quickly to make sure that they are okay. Yeah. Or that if they're not, you're at least gonna help quarterback where they're gonna go and make some calls for 'em.

Or, give them [00:22:00] exact things to tell the doctor or to, share with them. The knowledge that you have Is so far above the average person out there in terms of how their body moves and what you're, what they're doing that I think really helped build a lot of confidence for them.

Danny Matta: Yeah. What, so what niches specifically are you guys, mostly focused on as far as the exit continuity, ongoing kind of services go?

Danny Laughlin: So our continuity is we're not, I wouldn't say it's necessarily like niche, it probably falls into people that are very who have bought into taking care of themselves long term.

In that realm we've got some CrossFitters. We've got some of our youth athletes that want to perform better and, get stronger and whatnot. But honestly, a lot of it is our, you. 40 to 50 year olds Yeah. Who are tired of hurting. And they want to go play golf or they want to [00:23:00] go and be able to travel and not feel like crap all the time.

And then our next big group of continuity people are our, like 70 to 80 year. Wow. That are like, I just wanna be able to move. I wanna make sure I'm doing the right stuff. I want to keep, walking every day. I wanna be able to, put my own shoes on and Yeah. Stuff like that.

And it's been the first year we ran our continuity program, I was very surprised cuz we had everybody reach out to, people that they thought would be, interested in it. And I was super surprised at who. After the email campaign, called in was like, I have to be on this list.

Like how do I get on this list? And so for us, we didn't really niche it down. It's more or less like we, we promoted as Hey, this is for our community who sees their health as a long-term investment, versus I just need a quick fix [00:24:00] yeah.

Danny Matta: Yeah. I think that especially in these hybrid models, the ability to be in network with Medicare and then handle some of those things afterward, whenever you are you're done treating a problem and you're seeing them more in a wellness performance based setting Just alleviate some of the gray area that some of the practices avoid.

Intentionally just not wanting to deal with it. Cause I think it's a very needed service for that group of people. And you're right, like what is, like the life factors in terms of somebody's quality of life with what you can help them with minor changes.

Like I did not work with the Medicare population very long. I was a, I worked for a year in this, in-network practice, but I vividly remembered this guy. He was a balter World War II gunner. And he came in a wheelchair and I remember. My mentor at the time, he was like, we're about change this guy's life.

Cuz he hadn't moved, he hadn't done shit in who knows how long. So him and his wife were there. We do some like basic like hip mobilizations on. And all of a sudden he's like walking around and his wife is like crying. The guy hadn't stood up in forever, so his [00:25:00] pants fell down because he didn't have a, he didn't have a belt.

So he's walking around his pants, fall down in the middle of the clinic and he's so happy. Like we had to help him get his pants back up, but then he walked back. To his, to, to the room. And they were like, oh, ecstatic. This is so ecstatic that he could like, walk around again, like with some sort of miracle.

And we're like, dude, you just, your stiff joints. Like we gotta get these things moving. And I remember, I thi thinking back on that sometimes I'm like this, that might be one of the more meaningful, like chains we've ever helped somebody with. Yeah. And it was so simple. So I think that there's such a need for it, it's just a matter of, I don't know, I guess maybe it's just the status quo of as soon as we're done with this, we discharge somebody cuz they don't know what else to do or, or are they like, Do you think it's maybe they're more unsure of whether somebody will actually do it or not and they're afraid they're gonna waste their time versus focusing on what, the, they get 'em in and discharge model that most people practice.

Danny Laughlin: I, I honestly think like in an in-network practice, it is super comfortable for the PT to just hide behind the veil of insurance. And not have to discuss with the patient,[00:26:00] what their overall plan is or what their long-term plan is. And I think that is, that's probably the other aspect of it that we spent so much time working with the staff on was like, Don't just hide behind.

Oh, insurance will cover it. Because a insurance doesn't cover anything. Like no matter what, they're all paying something. Sure. With the way deductibles are set up and even Medicare replacement plans and things like that today everybody pays something, so none of it's just a hundred percent covered unless you have some amazing government, run program.

But, Really being comfortable with laying out the plan for that patient. And part of the plan is like they're gonna invest in themselves. And the other aspect is like, what do I do with them when they're not in pain? We've spent a lot of, time building up, like personal training.

Tools and building our staff up [00:27:00] as, trainers and things of that nature too, so that they can take somebody and work with them on the fitness side of things, that is the, the defining line for us of, okay, this is no longer, physical therapy, skilled services. This is now falling into like personal training and wellness skilled services, and that's why we feel very comfortable doing.

What we're doing on that end. Yeah. So I think again, it just came down to what is, what's our hold up? Why are you not comfortable with this? They didn't have the skills that they felt were up to speed. Again, we sat 'em down and said, do you think, a personal trainer is, has more knowledge than you do?

No, we just need to train you on higher level exercises or building an exercise program. Yeah. That's not around you. Rehabbing somebody's hip like you guys have these skills, it's just reworking them a little bit.

Danny Matta: Yeah. I think that's the challenge is, in school, you barely learn how to program for somebody from [00:28:00] a, just a basic therapeutic exercise standpoint.

Unless you went to a school that was like heavily. Performance based, sports ortho, they're higher level stuff. But I don't think those were that common as far as, PTs school go. But I remember coming outta school and not necessarily feeling that comfortable at all with what I had learned as far as that went.

But I'd been a personal trainer for a few years before that just working my way through school and I feel like I could pull a lot from that. That helped me with building programs out for people. But that was from prior experience, not necessarily from, what we learned in school. So I do think that's a big thing that holds people back.

For you, it sounds like for you guys, you do a mixture of. A creation of like templated programs and things that can maybe help with some of that and as a framework of what people can use. And what I would like to know is if there's a clinician out there and let's just like best advice you can give them as far as a super simple continuity sort of program to implement.

Let's say single provider, they're listening to this, they're like, gimme something good Danny.[00:29:00] What would. What would you tell 'em to do? Start to dip their toe in the water, starting to build this recurring revenue because it's just such an important thing to have in the business.

Danny Laughlin: I think honestly, the most important thing you can do is talk to somebody who you've already worked with in, who you've already built a relationship with.

Yeah. So adding new patients is great, but they're also like five times the amount of. That they are, unless if they're not a recurring patient. So you look at somebody that you've already worked with, 3, 5, 6 sessions, whatever it took to, whatever package they bought, you got 'em out of pain, you got 'em back to doing what they want to do.

You've already established yourself as the expert, now it's just time to ask them to invest in themselves long term and don't shy away from that. Everybody's really good at selling packages when somebody has a problem, but get really good at selling packages when you're coaching somebody on how [00:30:00] to take care of themselves.

Yeah, indefinitely. And that would be my, my, my advice. That's what has, launched our company to another level. I think it's also the

Danny Matta: way in which you bring it up, right? It sounds like you guys went from a, Hey, we. Treat your knee pain, your shoulder pain, whatever, throw that in there too.

All of a sudden it's, Hey, we help you, live a healthier life, and be as active as you possibly can be for as long as you possibly can be. If you're willing to do work and be proactive about this we can help you do that. And it sounds like just from the get-go, like the messaging is probably very different in terms of how you're presenting your.

Danny Laughlin: Yeah, we talk about it in day one. We say, okay, so here's our plan. Here's how many sessions I think it'll take to get you outta pain. And then, from there we'll work, probably a few weeks getting some of this dysfunction cleaned up [00:31:00] around probably once a month where you're just checking in and making sure things are good.

If that is something that you know you're interested in, we can talk more about it. But we'll deal with that as we get to it. So we've already planted that seed day one of, yeah. Hey, it's not over when pain's gone, like there's a whole other world that's out there. And then, with each phase, then the therapist talks to 'em again.

Oh yeah, no, when you get on your once a month thing, then, we can come in and do the, work on these exercises or, build some programming for you that'll, help with what you're wanting to get better at and things like that. Again, just keep coming back to it, but more, it's just a casual mention of it.

And so by the time they're, at their last day, they're going, okay, yeah, now it's, I sign up for the once a month deal, right? Oh yeah. That's our continuity program here. Yeah. This is what I recommend you do and, we'll get you, going here and then we'll, get you through the rest of this year and then get you on the foy year next.

Yeah,

Danny Matta: I love it. I think I get this question a lot with people that are struggling with moving people over to some sort of ongoing [00:32:00] service. And I think they struggle with it for a number of reasons. I think number one, they just the term maintenance is a, just like a dirty word in the in the clinical world.

They can be associated with types of practices that, we don't necessarily view ourself as. But I think what people don't realize is, it's not like people are being forced to go to Massage Envy or to go to some, high volume, wellness clinic that doesn't do anything for them.

They're doing it because they're looking for the solution to that problem. And for us, I feel like we have a very. Efficient, very simplified approach. You're talking about a visit once a month with somebody and some remote sort of management. Like how much time are you saving them?

How efficient are you being with what the outcome they want with the amount of. Time they have to take away from, with the in-person things that they have to do other places. So I think it's a really great solution, honestly. And the biggest mistake I see people make is they bring it up far too late.

It's like on their last visit they're like, oh, hey, by the way, we have this thing and it's far, it's just too late. It, they're already, their mind is oh, I'm [00:33:00] gonna go back to whatever. I thought this was a clinic. Like that versus like you're saying, Long lead time. Hey, this is how we work with people.

The vast majority of people we work with that ends up looking like this. Just so you know, we can touch base on that once we get to it. Like I think it's just that little tweak is the difference between a successful program

Danny Laughlin: And one that is not. Yeah, I think it has to be part of your culture and part of your, business, Practice of, no, we're not done with you after you're, out of pain. We're here as a tool for you for as long as you want us. Yeah. And I think if you can get really good at. Understanding that because yeah, no, nobody's gonna be good at selling that on the last day when, then they feel blindsided and they're like, oh, what are you trying to scam me on?

Exactly. Here it's oh no. So that was a big adjustment that we made is we, everybody, day one, we talk, we start talking about

Danny Matta: it. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's huge. That's probably, if you don't take anything else from this conversation, like the fact that you need to bring up your ongoing program or recurring revenue program, continuity program, whatever [00:34:00] it is, you call it whatever you want, but something that's gonna create ongoing stability via providers having, schedules somewhat, filled at least with patients that are gonna be working on long-term problems.

Do it early. Early is the only way to really do it. And I think the other thing you said too, there's a difference in energy level. It takes too, from somebody like this that you have a curated relationship with, that you are basically like maintaining and helping them be more proactive versus like the mental energy it takes to problem solve a complex problem of somebody that's in multiple places and has all these things going on and you have to build trust with them and like it's always so nice to.

A mixture of those because it's not nearly as mentally draining to deal with. People where you're doing ongoing work with them. At least a mixture of that versus everybody is just like intense problems that they're working through that, that is, that'll burn you out.

Honestly, I think people get burned out by that more than they do having people they look forward to seeing, like I have patients like I, I have a bunch of patients that [00:35:00] I hang out with. I don't even see patients. But, or they'll hit me up if something, is going on or I'll see 'em at a music, festival around here or something like that.

Or and it's not weird cuz I actually like these people a lot and I just, it's just what I do for a living and they do their thing for a living and I just help them do that. So I think it's a really cool way to develop those relationships as well. I'm sure you guys have seen,

Danny Laughlin: The same.

Yeah. I've got people on my schedule that I've worked with. Going on 10 years now. Wow. Who have followed me from multiple clinics and they're awesome. I know everything about their lives. Like we've, they know everything about my life and they're, yeah, they're way easier to treat because I also know all their tendencies, and I know, if something's not right, I know exactly what to look at and go from there.

So it, it also, you've, If you're looking at your long-term professional career too, it's again, you can't just have super complex patients all day long to where, by the time you go home you got [00:36:00] nothing left for your kids or your family and all that stuff factors into it as well.

A hundred percent.

Danny Matta: Danny, I don't know if there's a better way to end it. I think that's like spot on. I couldn't agree more. I'd love to see the success you guys are having and continue to have, and it's really fun to watch and watch you guys just be creative and solve problems and help people long term.

I know you have a growing team as well so if people are interested, they're listening to this and they're like, ah, man. It sounds like a cool company to get a part of or to be a part of or if they wanna reach out, like where can they go to kinda learn more about, you and

Danny Laughlin: and the business?

Yeah, they can they can check us out, our website l pt kc.com Instagram handle, lpp t kc, and all that stuff's linked up to our website too, so I can check us out on those. There you

Danny Matta: go. All right guys hope you enjoyed this one. Hope you add some con continuity offers to your business.

The recurring revenue is a game changer. And as always, Danny, thank you so much for your time and jumping on the pocket center. You're a busy guy. You got you got a lot to do. So thank you again for that. And as always guys, we'll catch you next [00:37:00] week.

Danny Laughlin: Thanks for having me. You got away.

Thanks.

Danny Matta: Hey, Pete, entrepreneurs. We have big, exciting news, a new program that we just came out with that is our PT Biz part-time to full-time, five day challenge. Over the course of five days, we get you crystal clear on exactly how much money you need to replace by getting you a. Ultra clear on how much you're actually spending.

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So this is a one one-way channel. I'd love to hear back from you. I'd love to get you. Into the group that we have formed on Facebook. Our PT Entrepreneurs Facebook group has about 4,000 clinicians in there that are literally changing the face of our profession. I'd love for you to join the conversation, get connect with other clinicians all over the country.

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