E466 | Turning Negatives Into Positives With John Licata

Today, I am excited to bring you John Licata, who is one of our business advisors here at PT Biz. John has the most business experience out of any of us, and I wanted to get him on here to highlight his business expertise. Enjoy!

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] Hey, I've got a question for you. Do you know if you're tracking the right data, the right metrics to the right key performance indicators in your practice? This is something that's huge for us and really helps us make solid decisions within our business, but the prior software that we're using to run our practice made it really challenging.

To actually get that data out and use it in reports. Since we've switched to PPG everywhere, this has actually become way, way easier for us to be able to have the right data. We have a dashboard of all the things that we actually want to see, the metrics that we want to pull, and it makes our life a lot easier to pull the information that we need to make the right decisions within our business.

So if you're running blind and you're not tracking the right things, or you're. Hard time actually pulling everything together. I highly recommend you check out our friends at PT Everywhere and see what they've got going on with their software platform. It's what we use for our practice. It's been a game changer for us.

You can check 'em [email protected]. I think you really like it. So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who [00:01:00] don't wanna see 30 patients a day, who don't want to work home health and have real student loans create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about?

This is the question, and this podcast is the answer. My name's Danny Mate, and welcome to the PT Entrepreneur Podcast.

What's up guys? Dr. Danny here with the PT Entrepreneur Podcast and today we get to chat, chat with one of our team members, John Lakota. John is someone that's been working with us now through this year, through 2021, and is one of our advisors and is somebody that. Many of you probably have never even heard of or, have heard of, heard us reference potentially maybe.

But John is probably the person on our team not probably is the person on our team that has the most business experience out of anybody. And, I'm, I, we've been trying to set this up for a while and I'm glad that we can, because I want to be able to highlight him and share what he knows about business and [00:02:00] the way he views it.

And hopefully you take something from that as well. And you. Add that to your business as well as if you get on the call with John, you'll know who the hell he is. John first of all man, thank you so much for your time and I, I really, I'm excited for this one.

John: Hey, thanks Danny. Yeah, I'm excited to talk as well and appreciate you having me on.

Danny: So I tell you I, let me lead this off with just like how this all got started because the our business has grown a lot over the last few years and sales, and and front end, just really front end advisory conversations is a. Area that we bottlenecked because it was all mean for such a long time.

Roger say no, just somebody that is an advisor for us too, and helps have these conversations. And we really needed another person as well. And Jared, our business partner who is your son-in-law was like, Hey, my father-in-law might be a good fit. And I was like, I don't know, dude, that's weird.

I say, are you comfortable firing your own father-in-law? And he said, yes. And and I was like, fine. I'll talk to him. We'll test. So anyway, when I looked at your resume, I was like, holy crap, this is. This guy's [00:03:00] legit, and once we had a chance to talk, it was very easy for us to make the decision to work with you.

So even though I was apprehensive initially, it's if, I hear people say would you rehire the same person over and over again? I would rehire you in a heartbeat. It's been a joy to work with you. Very easy. But what I, and I'm interested to dig into is your background because you have a lot of experience in business and so for you in to share that, I'm looking forward to it.

And can you start, with your initial kind of steps into business and I really wanna dig into what you're doing today too. Entrepreneurship in your own right, which we can get into in. Yeah, sure.

John: Yeah. And first off I wanna say, that's one of the things we love about Jared, our son-in-law, right?

He's all about results first. That, that's a pretty funny story. But yeah, so my my background is really while I was in college, I started working for Nordstrom. And I got hired to open a brand new store out in California with Nordstrom. And I got into the shoe business. I got into sales in the shoe department.

That's where it all started for me, and I just fell in love with it. I absolutely fell in love with sales. I fell in love with just interacting with customers, uncovering needs and filling needs, and just helping people find what they're looking for basically. And I fell in love with the [00:04:00] shoe part of the business.

And I quickly advanced through the company. I became a. Within my first year and had the opportunity to buy for bigger stores and open more stores, I ended up opening four stores for Nordstrom when they were in their growth mode back in the eighties. And it was just an amazing experience.

But I got burnt out after about six years working retail, a lot of nights, a lot of weekends. My family was starting to grow, two small kids at home another one on the way. And so made a decision to pivot over to the wholesale side of our business. Stayed in the footwear side of the business and I went to work for a large corporation.

And one of the things I started doing there as a salesperson covering large territory. Really working with a lot of business entrepreneurs. And it was really interesting because not only was I representing my brand and, selling strategies and such, but I was helping business entrepreneurs get started.

Open businesses, find locations, negotiate leases hire people, train people motivate people all these different things that. Into becoming a business entrepreneur and scaling your business, being successful. So I did that for a [00:05:00] number of years and then over six, eight years started getting promoted into some bigger roles and then have really stayed in that industry up until recently.

The last 15 years or so, I've held executive positions with multiple companies until Covid hit back in March, 2020. It impacted, every industry, right? Covid just crushed industries, and the footwear industry was no different. And so I found myself at the end of May my position was eliminated, so I was looking for a job, just like millions of other people.

And being a highly compensated executive was, it was a tough time to be outta work because those positions just, they just weren't available. They just weren't being filled. And so over the next literally six months I was reaching out to everybody in the industry that I knew from CEOs to presidents, to vice presidents all the way down.

Just trying to, make contact, see what was going on, trying to create positions for myself, coming up with, unique ideas and strategies. And I was putting decks together to brands presenting, here's why you should bring me on cause I can grow this part of your business [00:06:00] for you.

No one was spending any money, no one was willing to take any kind of a capital risk at that time. Everyone had just, pulled. And here it was now December of last year I'd been out of work for six months, and things were getting a little tough at that point. And we were starting to have to make some tough decisions.

And that's when, Jared approached me and said, Hey, we've been growing like crazy at PT Biz. We need help. Do you think this is something you'd like to do? And I said what do what's the opportunity? Tell me about it. And he said it's an advisor position. And basically, we need someone to meet with clinicians hear their story, hear where they're at, see if they're a good fit for us, see if we can help them.

And then if we are, move them into one of our programs, whether that be clinical rainmaker or Mastermind. And so I said, man, I don't know anything about physical therapy. I've had in knee surgery, I've gone through physical therapy personally, but other than that, I really don't know the industry.

And he's Y yeah, but you're a business guy. Business, sales you are great with people. You understand you're a good listener and you understand how to, put things together. And she goes, so maybe talk to Danny and see, see what Danny thinks, see what you think after you talk to Danny.

So [00:07:00] that's when you and I met and the rest is history.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's interesting, that how something, just my own account, it's a pretty negative event. There's a lot of positive things that come out of it as well, right? Because I also, I know that, that life is hard, right?

With you, with those roles, like how much were you traveling, how much were you on the road, in and honestly just not around the people that you want to be.

John: Yeah. Yeah it's actually been a huge blessing, just losing my job at that time, which was as crushing as it was at the time.

Cuz I loved what I was doing. It's just been a huge blessing because I was on the road a lot. I was on the road probably 35 weeks out of the year. In that role, and I'd be gone like two nights a week. Most of those weeks, three days, two nights a week kind of a thing. And so that adds up, 35 weeks of doing that for really like 12, 15 consecutive years.

It takes a toll, and it's hard on the family. It's hard on my wife and I. And so it really has been amazing because with this change I have ended up forming my own company. My own consulting [00:08:00] company and there isn't a lot of travel involved. I'll take a trip here and there.

But very little travel involved. I'm doing a lot of interesting things now, working with different companies. Just kinda sharing my business knowledge and working on strategy kind of stuff. Yeah, and I'm just loving it. I'm loving the change of pace. I'm loving the different challenges that come with it.

I'm really enjoying the learning aspect of it cuz I've had to learn a ton, right? Because if I was gonna. Work with PT Biz, I wanted to come, bring myself up to speed on the industry and on the lingo and, what's really important to, to a physical therapist and how do you grow a business in this industry and what's important there and how do you scale and all of those kinds of things.

And so I've had to do a lot of research and obviously talk to a lot of team members to really get myself to a position where I can have intelligent conversations and really add value in those

Danny: conversations. I'm interested with your, you go from being in big organizations, very structured, executive positions with a lot of responsibilities and people that you're, that are reporting to you and managing to.

Now all of a sudden, you're doing your own thing. Like cuz yes, you do work with us, the consulting work that [00:09:00] you're doing on your own is I'm assuming very different. So how has that transition been for you going from, corporate world, which this, it's so similar to what so many people we work with are in like bigger corporate practices and then all of a sudden they dive into entrepreneurship and it's very.

Weak. It's a very different experience. It's a lot of different things you have to deal with. So what have been the harder parts for you with that? And what's been some of the better, parts that you've got to experience?

John: Yeah, that's a great question.

I think the hardest part probably when you leave a very structured, large organization like that is you lose all of the support that goes with that, all of the layers of support, right? Everybody plays a very key role in their own right, in a company like that, of that size, right?

Everyone's a specialist at what they do in their particular area, and you have all of those layers of support. There's always someone to go to if you need help or you need support in some. Of the business pivoting to, entrepreneurship, you're, it's you're a one man team, right? And you have to do everything, which means you gotta learn a lot.

And you gotta get really creative with your time, in managing your schedule. I think what's been most positive about it [00:10:00] is as someone who's running your own company, and especially in the consulting side of things, you really get to choose who you wanna work. You don't get, you don't get that, that opportunity in the corporate world you take it as it comes.

And so what's been really great is I've been able to pick and choose who I wanna work with. And I've been able to work with companies and causes really that that really make a difference. One of the things I just loved, and maybe I'm getting ahead on your questions here, but one of the things I love about PT Biz when I started researching was, Just how much you really help people.

And I love that. And that's how I really fell in love with the company. I have a couple of other clients that I'm working with where it's the same thing. I'm working with one company that's a sustainability company on the sneaker side of things. And so they basically upcycle sneakers, recycle upcycle sneakers and then move that product to third world countries, to micro entrepreneurs who are making a living, feeding their families by reselling those sneakers to people in their communities who need footwear.

Wow, because 1.5 billion people on the globe are [00:11:00] affected by soil-borne diseases because they don't have shoes on their feet. They can't afford shoes. And so there's a real need out there globally, we don't see that in the us but this company takes sneakers in the us three or 400 million pairs of shoes end up in landfills everywhere in every year.

In the US we can imagine that. And they don't biodegrade very well. So it's really bad for the environment. And then on the flip side, you have people all over the globe. Who are contracting diseases through the soil cause they can't afford shoes. So this is just like a perfect solution to a lot of problems.

And so it's been really just tremendous for me to be involved with that company and helping them on the strategy side and kind of building out a model for them to grow and to acquire more. Recycled sneakers so they can move them to other parts of the world. And then, another company I'm working with I'm doing a lot of mentoring.

I'm putting together strategy for a brand that's new in the marketplace and we're trying to grow that brand and having a nice run of it. And I'm doing a lot of mentoring there, which I love. So it's cool that you, in this type of a role, you really do get to pick and choose and work with the folks, just our clinicians, they wanna work with their avatar.

It's the same [00:12:00] kind of.

Danny: Yeah, no, that's a great point. I think it, there's a lot of people that listen to this podcast that are, they would love to do their own thing and they, they don't necessarily hate their job, but they definitely don't. Love it. It's not something that, that maybe they get a ton of enjoyment out of, and they look forward to, Monday morning when they get to go work with whatever, group of people they're working with at, they're at the practice that employs them.

But, for you to speak to the difference in like energy level with working with people that you wanna work with versus working with whoever gets put on your plate at, prior companies that you have, like, how would you describe that? What are your thoughts on just the benefit of.

Working with people that you feel like synergy with and that you really want to help versus, the people that are just, they're clients but you may not really care so much or have anything in common with them or feel like they are trying to do anything of significance that you really wanna help them with.

John: Yeah, I think it really just comes down to motivation, right? When you are going to work with someone or on a project or on an interview or whatever it is that you [00:13:00] really look forward to, maybe it's something that you're passionate about. Man, it's like there's so much energy involved with that, right?

It feels you're not being drained at all. In fact you're giving out a lot of energy. You're receiving a lot of energy. And conversely on the flip side, It's when I speak to clinicians, they might, they may be in an outpatient clinic setting and they say, If I could just work with patients that I love working with, what a difference that could make in just right just mentally and just mindset.

It's huge. Cuz in a lot of situations they're working with patients who are literally draining life out of them. They're, they don't wanna be there. They're not doing the work that they're asked to do in between sessions. They're not improving for those reasons. And it's just, it's really tough.

Yeah. And then you compound that with all the other issues with working in a facility like that and all the documentation and on the after hour stuff and it could be very draining. Yeah, it's very similar. I think in any industry that's the case when you're working with people that you love working with it's just much more motivating and

Danny: energy.

A hundred percent. I tell people this a lot. It's, when I was in the army and right as. Deciding to get out. I would notice it. I would [00:14:00] fall asleep every day after I would get back from work. It would be five o'clock, my, my sick call hours start at six.

I used to be home around four and every day I'd fall asleep at five. And our kids were sleeping fine. And we were very fortunate. We have kids that like slept through the night early on. So it's not like sleep deprivation or anything like that. And, once I started my own business, I was working a lot more hours like a ton, and sleeping actually a lot less, but that never happened.

It hasn't happened since. I've never had that happen to me. And as I look at this idea of like energy, and some people, everybody knows somebody they're around that's just they drain you. It's like drain. It's the same hour, but you leave that hour and you feel like you just, you feel like you ran 10 miles and then somebody else you work with same hour and all of a sudden you feel like a ton of energy.

And you're You're excited to go on to the next thing or whatever it might be. It's just, it's one of those things I don't understand, I don't know how it works. All don't know is I feel it and with people that are working with people they really like to work with, it's just so much more, enjoyable.

And I think that's something that with you too, what we've gotten to see is like being able to talk to these clinicians that are trying to [00:15:00] make a change. Like, how's that been like these because these. These are long conversations you're having with these people. So it's not like it's a, it's representing and it's, it is mentally intense because you're actively trying to solve problems with them and listening to them and giving advice, or how has that transition been for you to be able to have these business consulting conversations now with a very specific group of people?

John: Yeah, it's been great. It's been a learning curve the first month or two I'll be honest, with a little tough just getting up to speed and feeling comfortable. I would say just our clinicians need to develop that confidence so that they can deliver, verbally deliver what they offer with their patients with certainty, right?

It took me probably a couple of months to be able to get there and have that kind of confidence and that certainty in these conversations. But now it's just now I really look forward to them. I love it. I love when I get several on my calendar in a row because I just love hearing people's stories.

I love hearing where they're at. Most of them are struggling in one way or another, and it's just, it's, it really is a joy to be able to help people to be able to say, man, I hear you. We've worked with what, over a thousand clinicians now today. We can help you. Let me explain how we can do [00:16:00] that.

And if it's a great fit it works out great. And then, just being able to see the results over the next several months as they work through the program. It's so rewarding. So those conversations, they're great. I love learning about, what are the stumbling blocks?

Because really I hear from probably three, maybe three d. Types of scenarios with our clinicians. One they've been working in an outpatient type setting or maybe in a home health setting, they're not happy because they feel like they've gotten stuck, right? That they hit a ceiling.

They don't see a growth potential over the next several years. Income-wise, same kind of a deal. They just feel like they're not able to really grow that income. Most of 'em have very large student debt, un unfortunately. And they're really feeling stuck and they're and what's really sad several of them that I've spoken with over this last year are at a point where they're seriously considering leaving the industry.

Which is super sad, right? All they've invested in this. Super sad to hear that. So it, that's one that's one subset that I would speak to. And they're just thinking, they're looking for a little bit of hope, really, honestly. They're just looking, is there a way out of this? I've never even thought about [00:17:00] running my own business.

I wouldn't even know where to start. Tell me a little bit more about that. Is it even possible for me? So that's one subset. The next would be, Someone who has started a side hustle, they've read about it and maybe they've heard some podcasts or they've fall, followed some groups online and they said, I'm gonna give this a shot and I'm wanna make a little bit extra money.

Maybe this is something I can do full-time someday. And they start working on it trying their best. They're really working hard at, in the limited amount of hours that they have outside of their regular job, their full-time job. And they get stuck. They get stuck somewhere between. A thousand dollars and maybe $5,000 a month.

And they just can't seem to go beyond that. They're having a really hard time generating new patients every month. They're having just a hard time on the business side of things, I would say. And so they come to us and say, I'm stuck and I know you guys are really good at this.

You're the best in the industry. Tell me, what do you guys offer? So that's a second subset. And then the third a lot of times it's people who. Really coming right outta school. Maybe they've already read your book, Danny. Maybe they've already listened to many podcasts over the last year or two.

Maybe they've had the [00:18:00] opportunity to rotate through a cash based clinic and really liked what they saw. But they've already made a decision coming out of school that they're not gonna go to work. For an outpatient clinic in the insurance, based model. They're just not gonna do it.

They're gonna go to work for themselves and start a practice. And that's a minority. But that's a really exciting conversation because someone's already made up their mind. And then basically they're just like, what do I need to do? Yeah, those are probably, one of the most rewarding conversations.

But but they're all great conversations. Again, just, being able to offer people solutions and give them hope and give them confidence that, you know what, there is someone out there that's already done this over a thousand times. They're expert at what they do. They've helped a lot of people.

They can help me too. And I just tell people all the time, just trust the process. Just do the work and trust the process and you will be successful. You can do this.

Danny: I feel like you've really perfectly described a couple of the, key avatars that we end up seeing and you're, if you're listening to this I, it's funny sometimes I listen to podcasts and I'm like, are they talking at [00:19:00] me?

Like they're like describing a problem that I have so well that. It, I, my ears perk up a little bit and that those groups you're talking about very common. As well as we see a lot of problems more on the mastermind side with people that are, they're busy time poor clinicians that have created a a name for themself.

Their schedule is busy and they're stuck and they're actually. More miserable because they're just like so time poor doing everything themself. And then, they're they're they wonder if they did make the right decision. But if you really look at the landscape of things there's a reason why a lot of people are leaving the profession, and are down on it because, they see their buddy over here that goes to a coding bootcamp for 10 weeks and is making 80 to a hundred thousand dollars and they have a doctorate, and they're making 70 in, in a clinic.

Seeing a shitload of people and with a hundred thousand dollars in debt on top of that. So it's frustrating. And so you look at it, you're like am I gonna become a coder? Should I just be a coder? Should I go sell software for this, SaaS company and and [00:20:00] make a career change cuz they.

They're smart. They've passed a lot of tests. They have a degree they've shown they can learn things. But what's nice, and I think for you probably is most rewarding is when you have somebody that's do you wanna do that? Or do you want to be able to learn how to make this work for you?

Because I think that's what we hope people do more than anything is like, how do we make the passion that you had, which to get to become a clinician to help people get outta pain? And so personally, reward. Match up with a way for you to actually like, literally make a better living in two to three x what most people are making in our profession by doing it on your own and doing it in a specific way, so for you I'm interested with the, you've had a lot of conversations with people. What do you feel like the biggest. Like barrier, whether it's mental or time or physical, like what do you think the biggest barrier is? It stops people from number one starting, but then from there, I think the other big barrier is leaving their job if they have a side hustle and actually going full-time.

What do you think the biggest barriers are?

John: It's definitely [00:21:00] mindset. First off there, there's no doubt about it. It's mindset. It's not time, it's not money. It's mindset first. A lot of people just have a really hard time believing that they can do it. Like I can be a successful business entrepreneur.

A lot of people just don't believe that. So that's number one. Number two, on, on the money side, we look at this as a very small investment, right? You're talking about clinical rainmaker, less than $2,000 a month for the program, mastermind, $1,500 a month for the program.

We look at that as a tremendous investment in yourself and your family, in, in growing a practice and helping lots of people out there that need help. But that's part of mindset. Some people can't get beyond that. And what I try to help them ex, what I try to explain to 'em and help them to see is that, Look if you were just gonna stay where you were at and spend $1,500 a month on some coaching and mentorship and amazing content, and then you're just gonna stay where you at revenue-wise, then this is not a good investment.

But if you're gonna, if you're gonna return that on that investment three times, five times, 10 times over, It's [00:22:00] an amazing investment. Look how much you spent on your education, right? Most people, a hundred thousand, $200,000. Think about it that way and then look at what we're able to do in helping people.

It's tremendous. It's it's like the best investment you could ever make in yourself. And so I think it's, it just comes down to mindset. A lot of times it's just lacking that confidence to believe in themselves that they can actually do this. And then it's the money side of things with some people.

They can't get past that. Those are probably the two biggest things. And I think just trying to assure people that, look, we, you're working with coaches who have already mastered these skills. These are clinicians that are hitting six and even seven figures in their practices.

They're really good at what they do, and they love helping people. That's why they coach. They're coaching as a side hustle. They've got a full-time practice. They've grown it. They're doing this as a side hustle because they love helping people. They want to help you, enjoy what they've been able to enjoy for them and their families and their patients.

And man it's just a lot of fun. It's just been a great fit for me.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. I, it's interesting when you look at investing in anything and I've had [00:23:00] people ask me like, what's the best what's the best investment, Danny? And for me, I always tell 'em like, The best investment you could possibly make is in yourself if you're actually gonna do something about it, right?

That's the, that is the kicker. But most people hate losing money. So if they're going to spend money to invest themselves, especially, by all I intents, purposes, a significant amount that, makes them slightly uncomfortable about investing in themself. They typically follow through on it.

And, it's one of those things that's so interesting on the back end of that, right? If I was to like, go back and add up all the money that I've probably spent on myself, it's a lot. It's easily over a hundred thousand dollars. Not, I'm talking like not including formal education.

I'm talking, coaching, mentorships, mastermind groups that I'm in, courses that I've bought, all kinds of stuff. If I was to add up the r o ROI on that, I don't even know what it would be. It's a hell of a lot better than whatever rental property we have or, cryptocurrency you own or the portfolio you have in equities, in the stock market [00:24:00] or whatever, like it just, It's because you have an active opportunity to have complete say over how much you make or don't make.

And most people don't have that, and they think that their job is safe. And just like you, you probably thought, oh, I'm doing great with my job. My job is safe. I. Until something happens, then all of a sudden you're expendable. But the last person to get fired is a person that owns that company.

They're not firing themself until they're the last one. They go down with the ship. Yes. But if it doesn't go down, like everybody else has gone before them. So I think there's a lot of safety in that, but there's a mental barrier with it. That is challenging. And I think for a lot of people, they have to feel a lot of pain first.

Like they have to try to figure shit out on their own and it doesn't work. And they're like what the heck is going on? Because it seems like it's working for these people. And it's almost like we get a chance to take their, take a pair of glasses off and put a separate pair of on for them.

It's is one or two more clear the little optometrist does. And as soon as we shift. They can see the world slightly differently. And I know for you, John, it's interesting to have these follow on conversations with people that have gone through our Rainmaker program and just see the difference, like what would you say that some of [00:25:00] the bigger differences are from a mindset standpoint or self-belief in many ways of where they start and then a few months later where they're at.

John: Yeah. Honestly it's just, I think it's being around other people that are expert at what they do. And I have this conversation a lot with our clinicians when they're considering the clinical Rainmaker program. It's if they're still on the fence so do you think starting this business on your own by yourself, trying to figure it out, gives you the best chance to be successful or.

Are you gonna have a better chance of being successful if you surround yourself with other experts in the field who are already doing what you're doing for multiple years now? Achieving six and seven figures. What do you think gives you the best chance to be successful? And that's what they see when they go through the clinical Remaker program.

They see the improvements in the area of. Time management, right? How to manage their schedule better. They're finding that they're able to generate more income, working less actually. And I love doing the math with people when they're, cuz a lot of the clinicians that I speak to, Danny they're making [00:26:00] 65, $70,000 a year.

They're really unhappy. They're working 50 hours a week, they're documenting at home. They're working with patients they don't love working with. They just don't see a way forward. And to be able to show them, if you just do the math right, how would it, how would working three days a week with your own patients, right?

Your avatar, your business, you're running it just three days a week. You're seeing patients, you're taking a fourth day a week to do admin stuff and work on marketing stuff. And then you're taking three days a week to do the things that you love doing for yourself and with your family. How does that sound?

Let's just do the math. Let's just say, okay, I'm gonna see seven patients a day, three days a week. That's 21 patients a week, multiplied by my rate. And Wow. Look you're making six figures now, running your own practice, working fewer hours. Being more present at home with your spouse, your family, your significant other, what a difference maker that is in someone's life.

And yes, so I think when people go through the clinical rainmaker one, working with experts surrounding themselves [00:27:00] with experts for three solid months learning from them going through our content, which. I would put up against any company in the industry, but then working with our coaches who are hands down are the best in the industry for three solid months.

What it does is it gives 'em a lot of confidence, gives 'em a ton of confidence to say What, they've already done this. I can do this too. And then it's just like little wins over those three months. Little wins, they're, they've come to us, they're stuck at 2000 a month. The first month they start working with us.

Often we see people double. By the second month, often they've tripled that. It's ver it's not uncommon at all. And so I think it's time management it's confidence. It's learning how to market themselves properly. It's building that confidence to talk about what they do and why they get results and to, overcome that imposter syndrome that a lot of our clinicians have when they come into it.

It's a lot of those kinds of things. Yeah.

Danny: Just to give some hard numbers that you're talking about. So if you. If you see 20 patient visits at $175 visit average, which is the vast majority of people we work with are [00:28:00] at or above that. And it depends on where you're at but for sure that's very doable.

20 a week, four weeks in the month we'll give you an entire month off. Instead of being 52 weeks, it'll be four. So 48 weeks, you're talking, $14,000 a month or $168,000 a year with the margins we tend to see with a single provider are usually around like 80 to 85% depending on how they run their their business, right?

When, when we say we help. At a minimum double what they're making working somewhere else, that is actually incredibly possible and happens all the time. And then from there, what you have is this, you have this beginnings of whatever you want.

You could leave it there. You could say, I just wanna work three days a week. I'm gonna do an admin day and I'm gonna never work on Fridays. And if that's your life and that's the extent of your work, like that's pretty, that's a pretty nice work week, for somebody to versus what we tend to see where it's a very restrictive clinical schedule.

Lots of people, tons of documentation and the va, the hours they're putting in are just, they're significant [00:29:00] and they suck because it's not what you want to do. The difference is, If PE number one, people don't think they can do it, and number two, they're scared to go and get people to come and work with them.

So like that. I think the fear is what if people turn me down? You know what if I put myself out there and nobody wants to work with me? But John, you went through the same thing, like you went, you had to go find clients in your own consulting company, right? So what was it that helped you with that?

Get past that. Cuz I think for most people, like they would, everyone would love business if it just came. If they just didn't have to work for it, and they're like, oh yeah, I have clients just show up and they work with me. It's weird. Just happens every Monday. That doesn't, it doesn't work that way.

You have to go out and you have to kill something and bring it back. Like you gotta be a hunter. So like what about for you? Like how did you get over that?

John: Honestly, it's just about, for me, it's for providing for my family. That's my sole motivation, right? It was just I had to make it happen, right?

I didn't have a. After six months of being unemployed, things were getting pretty rough and I knew something had to change. And fortunately, this first opportunity came up to work with y'all and that was amazing. But then with [00:30:00] other opportunities, I, it started to open my eyes to a different way of thinking, really, Danny.

Yeah. Whereas before, working in the corporate world for so many you get into this mindset that you're just dependent on a job and you just don't, you don't think outside the box. And working with y'all, I started to see that there, there could be other opportunities. And really reinvented myself, and then started, just talking to people in the industry and other industries. Where my skills that I've developed over all of these years could help them to grow a business or to meet a need that they weren't currently meeting. And I, and to be honest, I struck out a lot of times I spoke to a lot of companies who just, weren't ready to invest.

They just, everyone was holding back. And so after hearing no many times you just. You gotta get up and keep going. It's, for me, it don't sole motivation's providing for my family and I had to make it happen. So you just keep going and you just keep trusting and going and knowing that something's gonna happen and unfortunately it did.

Danny: Yeah. I think that, that's any, anybody with a significant other or kids or just a family in [00:31:00] general. They had the same motivation right on the on the clinical side for people that we work with. And the fear of not having a paycheck is a real thing. I remember I had no idea how I was gonna pay myself when I got outta the army.

I just they just paid me every, first and 15th of the month and they just showed up. And, so then it's Now, what do you do? And it it depends. You have a terrible month and you don't pay yourself anything, and then you could have a great month, and then if you go out and buy a B M W, you're dummy.

Like you're just, you're you've squandered the cash flow that you need to have for the business security, over a long time. And no one teaches you this stuff. It's not it's not like you, you're born with it. You don't go to, PT school and learn these things, so I think for you the family focused side of things that providing for them, I think everybody's the same way, right? It's just a matter. How. What do you want your life to look like, I think is the biggest thing. So I imagine are you are you happier now with what you're doing just in terms of satisfaction, free time to do the other things you wanna do?

Or are you happier 10 years ago when you were, bigwig at a [00:32:00] executive, the, whatever role you had and wearing a suit every day and looking, Cool. Going into your power meeting, like what did you enjoy more? Honestly, like what was a better kind of fit for you, what you want your life to be?

John: I really miss those frequent fire miles.

Danny: That's weird perks. I did the math quickly in my head. If you were gone for what you're saying, you're basically gone three months, a year for 15 years. That's five years of your entire life with your family. You weren't there. Like my brother-in-law was a consultant.

Consultant for pwc and he did the math on this one time and it. Horrifying how long he was actually like, think about how much stuff was

John: missed. It's crazy. Yeah, it's really sobering, right? You give up so much in that type of a situation, and when you're in it, you don't realize it as much. I think, you try to justify it, while you're providing for your family.

You're you're home the majority of the week, right? You're home four days outta the way which is a horrible way to look at it. But you do, when you're in it like that for so many years, you just you do try to justify it. Now, looking back, Man it was a lot lost and it's sad. But yeah, [00:33:00] today versus then, so much more fulfilling now what I'm doing today.

Working for myself and working with various companies and helping people it's just so much more rewarding. And it's just better all the way around for, gosh, I could go on, we could do a whole nother podcast on why it's better, but

Danny: yeah. Yeah, no, and I think it's what's interesting too is what I always enjoyed.

Or, and I think what most people feel is as well, once they finally pull the trigger on doing something themself, it's like I asked my friends the Tourettes who are on our board of advisors you met Juliet, she spoke at our last event. And I asked Kelly and Juliet, I said would you guys ever go back?

Like to working for somebody else if it was comparable pay or whatever, and they're like, absolutely not. No way. Like we'll take the unknown and complete say over what we're doing over a safe paycheck any day of the week. Just

John: like chronically unemployable. Yeah. And I've had the opportunity since earlier this year, and I just didn't, there's no way, why would I ever want to go back to doing that?

So day and mindset change? Oh my gosh. I never thought in my life that I. Hear myself [00:34:00] saying that.

Danny: Yeah. That's crazy. But I think it's just so relevant for people that are hearing this because it's just, it's normal for us to just think, okay, I'm gonna be go to get outta school. I'm gonna become a staff pt, then I'm gonna work hard.

I'm gonna become a clinic director. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be in charge of a clinic. I'm gonna mentor other providers. Maybe manage a couple clinics if that's really you want. Or maybe you just focus on just being a great clinician, and I think everybody would be totally happy with.

And it's just a, it's a shame that the context of insurance the environment that, that dictates ways in which pro practices have to be run profitably for the most part, means that there's a lot of, there's a lot of volume. And not only that, but there's a lot of. Ancillary work questionnaires notes that are just excessive in terms of what they have to do, calling to get verification, learning how to play the game of like, how to get somebody verified for a few more visits by saying this over this.

When they, what they really wanna do is just help people get better and it's, it is just it just wears you down. And, it's just like the, the grind of [00:35:00] traveling to go, do whatever and, late night meetings or whatever else. And it's just, it just wears you out.

And it's just fun to watch people be able to change the way that their life is shaping especially in many cases at a younger stage, even when then when you made your your shift. And a lot of times on their own terms, especially if they can. They're side hustle to then go full-time, cuz in many cases they can replace, 50 to 80% of what they're making somewhere else before they decide to go all in.

And I think that's, less stressful in particular.

John: Yeah, for sure. That's, what's so rewarding is, yeah, it's great. Every week I get to see direct messages coming in from our coaches. With where our clinicians are direct messaging our coaches and saying, gosh, I just hit $10,000 for the month.

It's incredible. Thank you so much. And or I, I just sold three cash packages today. My biggest day ever. I never thought I could do that. It's it, you get to see life changing things and there's so many of them coming in every week. It's just so rewarding. But I think for me, back thinking back October at our Dallas event, our mastermind [00:36:00] live event it was so cool for me, as the new guy this year, to observe someone who came in from the outside to just see the interaction between our clinicians and our coaches how appreciative the clinicians are of our coaches, helping them out.

There was, it was just really cool for me to see this genuine thankfulness. Because lives have really been changed. Massively changed. And so for me, this is it's so much more rewarding than anything I've ever done, and that's why I'm loving it so much. Yeah you're just helping people and it's just, it's

Danny: a pretty cool thing.

Yeah, I take it for granted now, this we just expect people to be able to do a certain, or create a certain type of business, a certain amount of revenue, a certain amount of growth. And especially when they're around each other. I think that's where it gets really interesting.

When we put people in their new accountability groups each time that that we get together, it's always interesting to watch, the interactions and what people are sharing and like quickly forming, friendships because there's so much synergy with where they come from, what they're doing, [00:37:00] what they're trying to accomplish.

And to see people that are really like at different stages of that, whether you are towards the top of that and you have people that are. Talking to you and they want your opinion on things because they view you as, just really somebody that's inspirational to them, or you're on, the bottom of that and you are just like fire hose of knowledge, right?

And you're just chasing people in a really positive way. It's an interesting mix and it's definitely something we take for granted, but it was fun to watch you get involved. You did really well on the EEO three 5k, by the way. That's a hard one to get thrown into which is our workout we do at six o'clock in the morning all together, have a hundred people out there running around and stuff.

But John, you held your own. You did great. You know what, Jared, Dustin, everybody, although he's more fifth than all of us, but but it's fun. It's a cool environment and I look forward to Charleston. But I think that the one thing that I did wanna touch on with you that we can end with this in particular is I think that you.

What I've noticed working with you, being around you in person is you're just a very positive person. You're just like, you're just a very easy person to be around. Like you're not an EOR [00:38:00] by any means. There's certain people you're like, God dang, I gotta sit next to but you're great you're just super positive about stuff.

You're always lifting other people up. Is that something that you work on? Is that just the way you're wired? Te tell me a little bit about that element of you. Cause I think it's actually the most beneficial part of your personality that I've gotten to know. I think it just like really spills over into everybody around you.

Yeah. No, I

John: appreciate it. I just feel like number one, I have to credit, it's my faith, my faith, it just, everything's gonna work out, it's just having that attitude that no matter. Because negative stuff's gonna happen. Just knowing everything's gonna work out, it's gonna be okay in the end.

But it's also that, life is short, man, and to not be positive. What a waste. Like how much do you lose, just in. Just satisfaction and just enjoyment daily and this short life, I don't, and maybe it's I'm getting a little bit older and you start to think that way a little bit more.

I think, when you're in your twenties and thirties, maybe you don't think that way. You're not thinking life cycle. You're thinking more like in the moment, right? Yeah. I'm in my fifties and, you, when you get into your fifties, I think you take a little bit different perspective, and you start to appreciate things a little bit more.

And it's just like, [00:39:00] why be negative or why be down? Or why? Why doubt all the time or just for me, it's just there's just two ways you can approach life and for me it's like I'm gonna approach the positive things aren't always gonna work out. But, I have a saying that there's always a plan B and if plan A doesn't work out, okay, let's move on to plan B.

We'll get it done, we'll figure it out. If plan B doesn't work out, there's gonna be a plan C. And so I, I just think there's energy around that and there's. There's longevity around that. Honestly I think studies have been done that show that I just think it's just a better way to live.

Danny: Yeah. I had a performance coach I worked with that said one of the few things you get to control in life is what you think, right? And it, there's so many people that suffer from, depression and anxiety and fear and I, we all have some variation of this, the, one of the best ways to look at it is like we get to choose how we feel.

We get to choose how we make. Someone will say, oh, made me feel this way. They didn't make you feel shit like you, you made yourself feel however you want. It just depends on how you respond to that in that situation. And I [00:40:00] think that it's just powerful to keep that in mind that I feel much better when I'm positive about something than negative.

Most people do. Yet we spend so much time. Being negative about things in particular that we can't even control. And it just seems like you've done a really good job of cracking that nut and figur figuring that out.

John: Danny, it also rubs off on other people, when you're around other people and you bring a positive attitude, it does rub off.

There's a very wise man, he was a motivational speaker. He passed many years ago. A lot of people know him. Zig Ziegler. Yeah. And he said it always stuck with me. He said, you can get anything that you want outta life if you'll just help other people get what they're trying to get outta life.

And that always stuck with me. And being positive around other people, it does help other people. It does help people to see things a little bit differently maybe than they were seeing things. To give them a little bit more confidence, whatever they're dealing with. Or, if they say you like, I was outta work for six months, I could have responded very differently.

But, every day during those six months, I was outta work. I came into the, my office rolled up my sleeves and it was working really hard to get a job. So it's all in [00:41:00] how you respond to things in life. I think. Just staying positive for me is, has always worked so,

Danny: Man, that's great advice, great quote with Zig Ziegler.

John, we appreciate your time. For those of you that are, on the fence about working with us and you decide to chat with us, our model is that's the only way anybody works with us. Like we only work with people that are the right fit via. Quite a bit of time invested in having an actual conversation with, you and and either myself or John or Roger and actually talk about your business and what you're trying to accomplish.

And, it's not the easiest way to to work with people, but we think it's. The only way to honestly find the right people to work with and make sure that you what you're trying to do lines up with us. Some of you, if you're interested and jumping on a call, John might be, who you chat with and and I'm glad we got a chance to kinda share your experience and really highlight you a little bit as fun.

Learn a little bit more about your background and. And the things that, that you were up to before we had a chance to, to po you from corporate America. John, thank you so much for taking the time. I know you got plenty of things to do and this is, this was a lot of fun.

Anything you wanna leave anybody with on, on, [00:42:00] on an exit before we

John: before we let you go? No, just, I just say do your research, really check us out, check others out. I think you'll find where we're the leaders around the industry for many reasons and we'd love to help you. But give yourself a chance, honestly.

Just give yourself a chance. Cuz I always tell our clinicians who are on the fence, you can do this. We've seen over a thousand do it. You can do this too. Yeah.

Danny: Yeah. That's great. We'll leave it at that. So guys, thank you so much for listening. John, thank you so much for your time and as always, we'll catch you guys.

Hey, Pete, entrepreneurs. We have big, exciting news, a new program that we just came out with that is our PT Biz part-time to full-time, five day challenge. Over the course of five days, we get you crystal clear on exactly how much money you need to replace by getting you a. Ultra clear on how much you're actually spending.

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