E706 | Cash-Based Practice Marketing That's Working Now With Jeremy Dupont

In this podcast episode, Doc Danny and Jeremy Dupont discuss effective marketing strategies for physical therapy practices to acquire new patients. They emphasize the importance of tracking metrics and data-driven decision making, as well as successful internal marketing campaigns. The goal is to provide valuable insights for clinicians looking to scale their practices through a combination of digital and offline marketing efforts.

The speakers introduce Patch, a marketing and sales operations company that helps physical therapy practices set up their backend systems. Patch offers a "done-for-you" service, where they build and manage these systems for the practices, as well as provide training and ongoing support. They also run Google Ads and quarterly marketing campaigns tailored to the practice's needs.

Tracking key metrics, such as cost per lead, conversion rates, and lifetime customer value, is crucial for making informed marketing decisions. Without proper tracking and analytics, clinicians risk turning off marketing efforts that are actually working. Tracking allows clinicians to understand the true ROI of their marketing investments and scale accordingly.

The speakers compare Google Ads and Facebook Ads for physical therapy practices. Google Ads tend to perform better, as they target high-intent, search-driven leads. On the other hand, Facebook Ads can generate more leads but require more nurturing to convert. They recommend focusing on Google Ads as the primary paid advertising channel.

Successful internal marketing campaigns are also discussed. Reason-why campaigns that tie into seasonal events, new hires, or practice expansions can be highly effective in driving new patient volume. The key is to identify the problems and aspirations of the target audience and position the practice as the solution.

Continuity and backend systems are highlighted as important factors for the long-term success of a practice. Retaining existing patients through ongoing care and continuity packages can significantly increase the lifetime value of a customer. Practices should have systems in place to proactively offer and sell these packages, and tracking drop-off points is essential for optimizing the patient acquisition process.

In conclusion, the speakers emphasize the importance of understanding the math behind marketing ROI and being data-driven in decision-making. Clinicians interested in working with Patch are encouraged to visit their website, book a call with Jeremy, or follow him on Instagram to learn more about their services.

Ready to elevate your practice? Book a call at the link below with one of our expert consultants today and start your journey to delivering unparalleled physical therapy.

www.physicaltherapybiz.com/apply

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] Hey, real quick. If you were serious about starting or growing your cash based practice, I want to formally invite you to go to Facebook and join our PT entrepreneurs Facebook group. This is a group of over 6, 000 providers all over the country. And it's a pretty amazing place to start to get involved in the conversation.

Hope to see you there soon. Hey, are you a physical therapist looking to leverage your skillset in a way that helps you create time and financial freedom for yourself and your family? If so, you're in the right spot. My name is Danny Matei and over the last 15 years, I've done pretty much everything you can in the profession.

I've been a staff PT. I've been an active duty military officer, physical therapist. I've started my own cash practice. I've sold that cash practice. And today my company, physical therapy business helped over a thousand clinicians start growing scale, their own cash practices. So if this sounds like something you want to do, listen up.

Cause I'm here to help you.

All right. What's going on? Dr. Danny here with the PT on our podcast. And I'm back again with. Marketing ninja, Jeremy DuPont, owner of Patch. And today we [00:01:00] are talking about what is actually working to get more new patients in the door when it comes to your marketing efforts. Um, and, and oftentimes for most practices, One of the big sticking points is new client acquisition, new patients in the door, right?

They, we know that's not always actually the main problem. Uh, sometimes it's just like inefficiencies in other ways, and they have plenty of lead, uh, you know, uh, flow, but they just do a bad job of capturing it. But in a lot of cases, there just isn't enough inbound interest or enough new patients. Right?

So what we want to do was take Uh, you know, kind of the combined information and visibility that we see now with hundreds of practices, we get to work with me with PT biz, much more on the business development side and Jeremy running, you know, advertising and marketing campaigns now for close to a hundred practices, uh, around the U S with patch and really share what we're seeing that's working and working in real time as of Q1, 2024, right.

As we've kind of sat down and had a chance to look back through this. So I think this would [00:02:00] be incredibly valuable if you're listening to this on the podcast. And you want to see the video side of this or, um, if you want to get involved in the conversation, head over to the Facebook group, go to Facebook, look up PT entrepreneurs, go ahead and request to join.

We're going to check you out, make sure and actually a clinician, uh, and then we'll accept you. You can come in and we do these, uh, every Friday, usually, uh, where we'll do a live stream. And these are the cool ones where people can start to ask questions and we can respond, especially on the marketing side, which is such a big, a big deal.

So, um, for those of you that are unfamiliar though, I want to give Jeremy a second to just kind of give them a, uh, give a little background of. Patch what patch is and what they're really doing at this point. So you have a better idea of who you're learning from. So Jeremy, why don't you give them a little background on patch and what it's all about?

Jeremy: Yeah, I appreciate it. I think I always break patch down into like three different things is what we do, like on a high level basis. The one that, you know, the number one thing we do is like set up your backend marketing systems for you. And I say marketing, it's really sales and marketing, which is really just Revenue [00:03:00] operations.

So like, how are you getting people in the door and then how are you, what systems do you have in place to get them to purchase a package or become a patient? Uh, we do that. We do like full CRM builds, um, and really take like complex pieces of software. And distill it down for you. And it's very much a done for you service where we build that CRM out for you.

So I know a lot of people have a lot of questions on CRMs and how do I track leads and how do I get off a, just a Google sheet, you know, a CRM is one of the ways to do that, but. You have to have some background knowledge and how to actually build one of those. So we call it just like a marketing system.

Um, you know, really like an automated system. That's how, you know, I really grew my practice. Ripple, um, is really diving into those systems and really just messaging your customers throughout their full customer journey. So a CRM can, you know, send a message out to, uh, a new contact that fills [00:04:00] out a form on your website and they, you give them very specific messaging there, or.

When a, uh, you know, a potential lead becomes a customer. Now you're hitting them with specific emails there. If a lost patient and they say they don't purchase a package or they no show the eval, what type of messaging are you giving them there? That's all things that you can do inside of a CRM and really the core of what we do with patch.

Um, but also with that and kind of the second thing we do is that's all done for you. We do all of that. We also teach you how to use it too, which is the most important part of it, because you're not going to actually use the software unless you know how to. Or you don't feel intimidated to log in and actually go in and edit things and update it.

Um, so we take that part of it very seriously. Um, through like onboarding, you know, kind of ongoing support and really just any questions you have on like your marketing system. We're not trying to, we have best practices, but we're not trying to reinvent the wheel on what you're doing. We want to lean into what you're doing and make sure this is like a custom, [00:05:00] uh, custom CRM and the messaging is all very much like on brand for you.

So. We try to keep that, um, you know, as close to your brand and your clinic as possible. And that's all done through like the collaborative, uh, onboarding process and how we build everything out. And then the third thing, and probably what most people are interested in is like the done for you marketing side, um, which is the Google ads.

Uh, we build like, you know, everyone's I'm sure doing local marketing events. So if you have a workshop or an injury screen coming up, we'll build a landing page. Email drip that goes out afterwards. Um, really just like tried to, um, you know, you're, you're putting all this time and effort into these marketing events.

Let's make them as optimized as possible and make sure there's a followup system there as well. So say, you know, you have 10 people show up for these events. Maybe you schedule three evals. What are we doing with those other seven people? I think most people are just saying, well, they're never coming in.

Like maybe I'll see them again at another workshop. We're [00:06:00] going to put systems in place that you're following up those people and you remember to follow up with them. Um, and then the, kind of the last thing is quarterly marketing campaigns, which I know we're going to dive into here and kind of what we're seeing is working.

This is all dependent on the time of year or what you got going on with your clinic. Maybe you hired a new PT or you're opening a new space up. Those are all things where you're giving people a reason why to come in and just staying on top of them and nurturing them for when they're actually ready to buy.

So those are kind of the three things that we do.

Danny: Well, and I would say one of the biggest mistakes, especially that I made early on when I started to do, uh, when I really started to do marketing more so than just trying to like do as many workshops as I possibly could, which, which I think when you look at marketing, it's not like one thing.

It's not one thing that's going to be like, Oh, if I just do this, then my clinic is good to go. It's really, there's, they all kind of work together. [00:07:00] They all work together in an ecosystem and. You know, for me, the next step after like local, uh, events was just trying to do some content, right? So newsletters and sending a newsletter out and, but that in its own right in, in a lot of ways, isn't going to really move the needle for you a whole lot because you don't know what you're tracking either.

And uh, and you don't know what's good and what's not good and what you should do more of or less of. So I think from what I've learned from marketing and at this point, you know, 10 years of running businesses. And I mean, we've literally spent like over seven figures on ads at this point, just our own businesses, not including.

Any of the businesses that we, that we work with and that you work with is you have to know what you're tracking. And if you don't, you're basically, it's almost like you're driving your car with your eyes closed. Um, you might get where you're trying to go, but, uh, it's, it's really, it's not very safe and, um, you can be wrong too.

And you can turn [00:08:00] things off that are actually working. So when we look at tracking and we look at like making decisions, um, especially if somebody is going to run ads, like. Do you even think it's worth it to try to run ads without. you know, some sort of software that's helping you, uh, organize the, the data of, of that, as well as, you know, giving you a clear idea of whether what you're doing is working or not.

Jeremy: I would say, no, I mean, like you've got to have some sort of, I think the most important part to remember with any sort of digital advertising is, you know, if some, especially we're, let's talk about Google, for example, if somebody's searching, um, Physical therapist near me and they're in Boston and our ad shows up and it's at the top of the page.

It doesn't really matter what's on that ad copy. Like it has to be relevant. It has to be what they're looking for. But you know, if that speaks to them, they're going to click on it. They're going to go to your website, but that's kind of the only job the [00:09:00] ad does from there. It's what does your website look like?

Like how, how dialed in is your website? What does that messaging look like? Um, and then how is. Easy. Is it for somebody to take that next step? And I know we've talked about websites a bunch in the past, but, um, making it really easy for someone to take that next step, um, becomes really important. And then, you know, we're talking about software, right?

It's, I look at it in two different ways of, you have to have the conversion tracking in the background set up properly to understand. You know, if somebody is clicking on your ad and they're going to a PT landing page and then they're going to take that next action. You're looking at the funnel as a whole and you can see if somebody goes to that, that landing page where the ad sent them, but then they're not converting.

That means that your copy on that website landing page needs to be updated and needs to be revamped because they're not converting there. Both any out, any sort of like conversion tracking in the background, you're running blind and you have no idea what's working, what's not [00:10:00] working. Um, and then the second piece of software is, you know, when somebody fills out a form or books a phone call, which is what I push most people to do and what everybody in patch does, um, Where does that contact get logged?

And is that calendar connected with your EMR calendars to show that you're actually available? And how are you tracking, like how that new lead goes through the system? Cause a lot of these. You know, ads, these people are, maybe they're not ready to take action right now. They fill out a form. So how are you following up with that person?

What is the messaging they're getting hit with afterwards? So without any sort of software in the background, there's no possible way to do that manually. And I think you're just kind of letting money on fire at that point.

Danny: Yeah, I would say the only thing that you might be able to get away with with that is more we consider branding ads.

So, like, let's say you just want to highlight, um, I don't know, an Instagram reel that, that you feel like it's really good, right? And you want to get that in front of more people in your area. This actually is the very first [00:11:00] form of marketing that I ever did. And it used to work really well. And it still does to some degree.

It's not quite as, um, you can't target quite as well. But, uh, Back whenever I first started doing ads was on Facebook, and we would basically take, uh, YouTube videos that we were putting out just for our patients for homework exercises, we'd find the ones that were the most, uh, they had the most reach, had the most views.

And then we would basically just like take that and put it in Facebook as an ad. And then we would target, uh, people in our area that had certain interests. And you could, you used to be able to get very detailed. Not, you can't do nearly as much anymore. They've changed some of it. And what you're able to do, but I mean, even like, you know, how much we're making and, and, uh, you know, lots of different attributes that you can't do now.

And then basically, we would just say, we like this piece of content. We want to get it put in front of as many people. We can in this radius of a, of an area around our practice. And we just let it run and, you know, that's what we consider like branding [00:12:00] ads is what big companies do. And it's, uh. It can work.

It's very hard to tell how it's working, how well it's working. Um, and even when you're running like TV and radio ads for most people, unless there's some sort of tracking code, which is also not a hundred percent, they basically turn them on and turn them off. And if they get more business when they turn them on and less than turn it off, then they continue to run it.

And they feel like that's good enough, right? That's not very trackable in comparison to what you're talking about, which is basically, all right, I have these little pieces of code that let me know if somebody has gone to my website, maybe a different. After that, and they've done something that's not, uh, they can attribute to the actual ad as the entry point.

And you can get very clear as to if this is worth your time or not, but the Adam it's on its own, right? And this is where I think people make a huge mistake is like the ad is not. The most it's, it's important, but it's not the most important thing. It's a part of an ecosystem where you understand. If you're getting the outcomes that you want and you have all of the tracking and followup in place so that [00:13:00] when you're spending a dollar on advertising, you want to make sure you're getting an ROI, not just immediately, but over the course of maybe months, even with followup afterward, you know, and I guess if you had to gauge the difference between just running Google ads in a Google account.

It, you know, same ads, nothing else in the background versus using something like a, like a dialed in CRM that's tracking that. And then you have followup with it. What do you think the difference in ROI would be, uh, for somebody that's, that's going that path versus just using like the Google ads account?

Jeremy: Yeah. I mean, like, I think first off, like you would have no idea what your ROI is unless you have these systems in place. So it would be impossible to even know like what your ROI is looking like, but you know, we see it all the time and to put a number on is tough, but You know, the amount of touch points it takes, it's like seven or eight touch points from an, especially an ads lead for somebody to actually come in the door.

And, uh, we do a lot of like, again, where CRM comes into play is we can track, you know, how long does it take from somebody [00:14:00] to initially reach out until they become a customer? Um, so we have that data and. It takes like an extra week for an ads lead to actually come in and purchase a package. Um, so, you know, if you're not following up with somebody for two weeks, you're going to lose that lead.

And say you're, say you're generating 10 leads a month, you know, you're probably going to go from converting. Six of those leads to maybe two, one or two of them. Cause they're like my back's killing me. I've got to get in. This is the only place that I could talk to somebody, uh, in the next couple of days, you know, that's a, that's an easy lead.

And that's again, why I like Google so much is because they're very high intense searches, but, uh, most people, they need a little bit of time. They need touch points. They need to talk on the phone. That's where an email drip comes into play. Uh, those touch points are really important.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we take them for granted too early on because we don't, I mean, it's hard to understand the, uh, all, all of the ecosystem [00:15:00] of, of marketing, you know, it's, and, and it's frustrating too, when you, maybe you run a campaign and you think, Oh, I got this lead.

Like they opted in for this thing. They're obviously very interested. And then they ghost you, uh, because who knows, maybe they lost some interest or they're busy or whatever it might be. And the followup side of it is really the, that's the key. like crazy. And if you don't do that, eventually two things either happen.

A, they either go somewhere else because they're there, they want help now, or B, they don't actually get the help that they need. And they continue to avoid activities that they really enjoy in their life. Neither are great outcomes for your business. And you know, one is a worse outcome for, for the actual patient.

Right. So, you know, it's one of those things that I think you just really have to, you have to accept the fact that there's a, there's a, There is an art and a science to marketing, you know, the art would be like the copywriting creative side, but the science is the tracking and making sure that it's done correctly.

And it's a very hard thing for people to do both because normally people [00:16:00] are biased a little bit at 1 or the other. Uh, so they tend to not be very good when it comes to digital marketing, but if we were to look at the actual, like. Positive of getting this, right? I know you and I both have seen this with our own practices.

Once we have a practice, it has a great reputation. We have a great product. We're getting internal referrals from clients showing that what we're doing, you know, they value and they want their friends and family to come work with us. You know, we have local reputation. We're doing local events. And now all of a sudden you layer on digital marketing.

Uh, people might say, well, I don't want to do it with leads that are harder or whatever. I guess if what's your counterpoint to that in terms of how much this can actually help scale your business?

Jeremy: Yeah, I think it's, uh, I think that's the main point right there of like, you've, you've got to want to scale your business.

You've got to have capacity to scale your business. Um, but like you said, it's all in an ecosystem and like, we're managing, you know, over like 30, 000 a month in ads right now. And, you know, These clinics are growing quite quickly because of the [00:17:00] back end systems that we have in place. Um, and you know, if you're, if you're looking to bring another staff PT on board, um, I think you have to run ads.

I think it's just one of those things where you, you get the brand visibility, but you're actually, you're. What you're really doing is you're capturing people who don't know who you are, um, and getting them into your ecosystem. Because I mean, think about like when you, you get served an ad or you're searching for something and you go to somebody's website or you opt into something, you're not just like signing up for a call or booking a demo or whatever it is.

You're also going to their Instagram account and you're seeing what other content they have on their website. And that's where like the whole ecosystem comes into play and where like, You can't just send one email newsletter out. You can't just like post a couple times on Instagram. You've got to do all of these things and that's going to help bolster the, the, the ads leads that are coming in because they're consumers now are very smart and like, especially patients looking for physical therapy.

What I'm seeing with the discovery calls I'm taking is They're shopping around a [00:18:00] bit now and they're, they know that there's other options out there. So having other content out there is super important and understanding that, you know, you've got to do, you've got to do more than just one thing. It's got to be a whole marketing system in the background.

So, um, But if you're looking to scale and you're looking to grow, this is how, like, we just hired our six PT at ripple and there's no chance I would have ever been able to do that without any sort of like paid advertising in the background. But the key is like, I can feel confident spending whatever amount of money we want to spend.

Because we understand our lead flow and how long it takes to get somebody to actually purchase a package and what our cost to acquire that, uh, that that lead was, and then how much were they're spending on the back end of that? I think the cool part is, is you can start to understand. Yeah, they're going to purchase that 1st package, but.

Are they sticking around for some sort of continuity afterwards, or are they sending their friend your way? Or, you know, that's, that's where like these systems really come into play and things can [00:19:00] grow quite quickly. And we're seeing that inside Apache. We have some clinics that have space and capacity to do it.

They're hiring two, three PTs within a three, four month period. Um, so it's really awesome to see if you're, if you can, um, and I think like, The biggest thing with this too is understanding, like, you've got to have somebody running point on these leads coming in the door as well. Like, that's a very important part with this of whether it's you as a clinic owner, you're taking those leads in, you're reaching out to them, you're almost like being a salesperson for your, for your clinic, um, or you have an admin or some side about automated follow up in the background.

Um, but if you do all of those things and you layer ads on top of that, Like, I think like sky's the limit with this stuff.

Danny: Yeah. Well, you bring up a couple of good points with who's taking, who's managing this, right. As well as just understanding what the ROI is. So why don't we do this? Let's talk, let's talk a little bit about just understanding, [00:20:00] uh, the math behind the ROI of the clinic, how that can change with the right person running it.

And then we can get into some of the things that we've noticed in Q1 in particular, the difference between Google and Facebook. Uh, the internal campaigns that are working and, um, you know, and, and, and really. Like how to leverage the two together. So, you know, if you're listening to this, we're gonna dig into that next, but before we do just understanding the math of, of marketing is probably the most important thing for you to make the right decision with investing money in marketing, because that's, that's the key is you're not.

I think we look at it as we're spending money on marketing. But if you are getting clients from that, uh, and the amount that they're bringing into the business is higher than what you're spending to acquire that customer, then it's an investment. You get a return on that investment, which we call a ROI, right?

So simple math. We, we look at just some basic numbers, right? We want to know cost per lead. So let's say you're, you're, [00:21:00] you have a Google ad out there and it costs you, 50 to get a lead. That means somebody has submitted something of interest. You know, maybe it's a form where they've, uh, they, they've, they've downloaded something, maybe it's a content, whatever it might be.

So your, let's say your lead is 50 bucks. And then from there, you need to know how many of those leads to take to get somebody to actually turn into a customer. That's really the key drop off point because you can have 50 lead, but let's say you're, it takes you 10 people. To get somebody in the door. So one out of 10 shows up.

That means you're you're one out of 10 becomes a customer. That means it costs 500 for somebody to become a customer versus if one out of two becomes a customer, then it's a hundred dollars for them to become a customer. So let's say you have a thousand dollar offer on the backend. If one out of 10 is what it takes, that's 500 per customer.

Now you have a two X ROI. So you've made 500, I mean, 8, 000 off of 500 in ad spend. That's not so great. Uh, but if one out of two shows up, that means it's costing you [00:22:00] a hundred dollars to get somebody to become a customer. You're going to make a thousand dollars off of, that's a 10 X ROI. That's an incredibly good return on investment.

So this is where we look at the throughput side of it. Not just the app, because you might be getting cheap leads, but cheap leads don't mean shit unless they become a client, an actual customer. So I would be willing to spend more per lead if I knew that a lot of those people were coming through and actually turning into customers.

So this is really important math for you to understand, because as you look at your, 500 budget you're spending. You got to make sure that that is actually turning into an ROI. And if it is, then the goal for you is really, well, how much can you, how much can you spend, what makes sense for you, how much staff do you have?

And the constraint that most of the clients that we're working with, you know, in the mastermind in particular, the ones you're working with that are in the mastermind is hiring. Which is a pretty damn good problem to have in comparison to not having enough business. They literally are just, they don't have enough people to be able to fulfill on the services that are coming in.

So anything you would change there, because obviously you're like, you know, [00:23:00] you're in this day every single day, more so than I am. But I think it's just like understanding the math is so important.

Jeremy: Yeah, and this is like, um, these are the big points in like what we communicate to our like everybody inside a patch to is we give like a monthly review on what all this stuff looks like.

And I always tell people to have, you know, the way Google works. It's really like you shouldn't take. The data from like 30 days worth of Google ads data. It's just not enough or any sort of any, any ad platform really. So we look at things on a whole of like on 90 days, we look at the trends in 30 days, but really 90 days worth of data is.

Cause you're going to have some months that crush it because there's seasonality to it too. Right. Of like January, December is going to be slow because there's a bunch of holidays. January is going to be a lot busier because there's way more search traffic there. Um, but yeah, we, the, the, the things that we look at and like, again, what we report on and communicate to our patch customers is cost per conversion.

We consider a conversion, a phone call, somebody books a call or they fill out a form right now. We're [00:24:00] seeing that to be about like 50 bucks a lead. Um, so say. Say somebody, you know, for easy math, they're spending 500 a month. That would be 10 leads that come in the door, especially on the Google side of things.

Like, you know, it's really important to understand too. Like you can't just flip an ad switch and it's going to totally change your business. It's 10 new leads. These are, again, high intent leads. They're searching physical therapy near me. What we want from those 10 leads is Is we usually shoot for four of those 10 leads to become a customer is really like the, the math that we're looking at there.

So if you're selling them a 1, 500 or 2, 000 package on top of that, that's, you know, you can do the math of the ROI side of things there. Um, but those are the important things that, that we look at is, you know, again, high level wise cost per conversion, how many of your ads leads are turning into customers.

And then what is the lifetime value of the, that person. Yeah. So you can calculate an ROI if you don't know those 3 things you're [00:25:00] again, you're just, you're just flying blind with it. And maybe it's working, but like, you just, you just have no idea. And there's no way to scale that either. So, if you want to start spending 1000 dollars, 2000 dollars a month, because you're trying to expand to a new location or bringing on 2 more providers, you, I mean, that becomes really scary really fast because you just, you have no idea where any of your money's going.

So, if you can understand and again, this is why. You know, a lot of people want to learn how to do ads on their own, but if you don't know how to set up conversion tracking properly, you just, Google might tell you have all these conversions, but they're looking at just like page views instead of like somebody actually taking an action.

Um, so you've really got to have a really solid understanding of what all that looks like to get that data. And again, that's where CRM comes into play. Cause you can understand who these people are, where they came from. You know, what were the search terms that they search? And then you can, this is what we do on the backend is we really just still all that data down and figure out like, what are the high [00:26:00] intent search terms that people are searching for?

Let's throw more money at that. This running a keyword is really working. Let's double down on that and really like optimize for that. Um, but yeah, again, like cost per lead, how many of those people are turning into customers and what does your ROI look like? Um, those are the important things.

Danny: And this is not this is also why we do not recommend people that are just getting started start here because there's there's a lot more complexity to this.

Um, you know, and when you're just starting to figure out how to, like, how to sell your services, how to deliver what you're doing, you know, and you have no local sort of presence. You have no social proof. This is not the place to start. It really is, is not a good place to start here. You should, you should really be focusing on, you know, your local reputation, uh, and dialing in just an amazing, uh, customer service, uh, experience as well as amazing outcome.

Um, that right there will get you to a point where, you know, [00:27:00] the grassroots sort of like boots on the ground style marketing, I mean, that can get you to 10, 000, 20, 000 a month in revenue alone just by doing that. And it will fill your own schedule just, just by focusing on that. Once you've done that and you're ready to scale, then it's like, okay, you went from the JV squad to the varsity.

And now you're gonna, you know, you're going to start to add some, some true business systems around this. But 1 of the things that we get, um, you know, a lot of questions with the people that are trying to figure out what to do next and say, they have the ground, the groundwork in place and, and they've got a good reputation and now they're hiring other people and they want to be able to augment the inbound, you know, sort of new, new client.

Long that they have with paid ads and a bit more predictability. And in some of the math around that, um, is the difference between Google and Facebook ads, right? So these are the 2 biggest ones that we see, um, obviously, you know, you've leaned really, you know, harder into the Google side of things versus Facebook.

Um, why, why do you, do you think that's a better place for clinicians to really focus their, uh, their efforts? [00:28:00]

Jeremy: Yeah, I think back to like when I started advertising and kind of like what my thought process was back then and, you know, I like marketing. So I like, you know, just kind of thought about this, um, of like myself as a consumer and you know, where I would take action that kind of led me to, you know, if I'm searching for something, I'm actually looking for that thing.

I'm obviously going to go to Google and I'm going to find that local service that I'm looking for or the product I'm looking for, whatever it is. Versus like Facebook where you're just going to be served these ads. It thinks that you're going to be interested in this and you're going to be scrolling on Facebook.

You're going to see this pop up for, uh, you know, a 99 shoulder evaluation. Um, If I have a shoulder problem, maybe I click on that and I, you know, kind of, you know, fill out the form or whatever it might be. Um, but I always like, I, I describe it to people as like, Facebook is like a billboard. If you're driving down the road [00:29:00] and you see this sign up that's advertising something, that's really what like a, a Facebook ad is.

Um, they, they, they do work certainly. Um, and the cost per acquisition is much less. So you're going to get more leads in the door, but. These are not like high intent leads. And really it was why I leaned into, into Google's, you're going to, you're going to get random people filling out forms for your evaluation from, from Facebook when they, they weren't looking for this and they just got served this ad and you have awesome content and your Instagram profile looks good.

Um, so they, they're like, Oh yeah, cool. I'll, I'll inquire about this. But then they have no actual, uh, intent to move forward on something. So. Especially with time poor clinicians. If you're chasing around 50 leads that really don't want your service or it's not a need for them right now, they weren't actually looking for it.

You're going to convert much less. It's going to be a way more of a headache, especially if you don't have these backend systems in place. Um, and you're going to get, [00:30:00] you're going to get so frustrated with that. Um, and we see that all the time with, with the Facebook side, again, not saying that they don't work, but I would rather put all of my money into higher intent leads and people that are actually looking to, to do something versus hoping to catch them on a whim and show up in their profile and, and hoping that they'll move forward from there.

So I think that's a big thing to understand and. You know, I think like a, a meta Instagram, Facebook ad, those play well, like advertise, like brand awareness. You were just talking about that. Like if you want somebody to know who you are and that's a longer sales cycle there, maybe they'll follow you on Instagram, they'll download an ebook or their own choir about something.

Um, you know, over time, if you continue to put out really awesome content. Maybe they'll become a customer, but that's going to be 3, 6, 12 months from now versus trying to catch someone that's looking for physical therapy right now. And they're searching for that again. Like, I would just rather, I'd rather deal with 10 people coming in a month versus [00:31:00] 50, knowing that these people are looking for physical therapy right now.

They searched it. They, they took enough intent to, uh, actually fill out a form, a book, a call. Like I want to chase those people down versus the, the 50 that, you know, you just had a cool ad and they, they download something from there.

Danny: Yeah, and it's a different, uh, game, right? Like, 1 is in some ways more like farming and the other 1 is more hunting.

So, you know, the on the Google side in our experience, we've seen as you do get fewer leads, but they're far more form much. They're much more likely to actually become a patient. Uh, so, if you're looking at time efficiency, it's definitely better. Um, the, if you want to just build a big lead, like, database, if you want to build a big list.

Yeah. Then Facebook is a better way to go, but it's going to be far less qualified. Right. So I guess you have to ask yourself, like, what, what's the intent? What's, uh, what angle do you want to take? Um, and for most people that are busy, you know, I think fewer higher qualified people is better. [00:32:00] Um, and from what we've seen too, you know, the ROI, the true ROI on Google ads is higher.

Um, it's higher with lower, uh, amount of time necessary to actually turn people from A lead into a customer, which is frankly all we want, uh, you know, we don't necessarily just want a big email list that doesn't convert. There's no benefit to that. In fact, that can be kind of expensive for you to actually have to pay to have those people on your email list.

So on the front end side, that's a big thing that we've seen, especially in Q 1 2024 is just Google is just better for clinicians from what we've seen, you know, and, um, and they both work. But 1 is just going to be more targeted and it's going to be a faster turnaround. Um, the internal side, though, once people are there.

This is the other big thing that I think we've learned some really cool things with in Q1 is that there's a number of internal campaigns that are working really well. Um, so, you know, I kind of look at these as like seasonal campaigns. Uh, so they call them [00:33:00] reason why campaigns and it could be any number of things is why there's marketing around all holidays for, you know, buying stuff.

Uh, what is the 4th of July have to do with mattresses? Nothing, but there's like, always the 4th of July mattress sale, right? So it's a reason why campaign, um, or something, something, uh, big. It's happening. That is either a reactivation point or a point to sort of like highlight something and tie that in with a reason to reactivate.

Right? So whether that be new staff member, new space or maybe a price race campaign that you have. So, um, they speak to those internal campaigns from what you're seeing and the ones that are like, you know, typically working the best for past clients right now. Hey, sorry to interrupt the podcast. I have a huge favor to ask of you.

If you are a longtime listener or a new listener and you're finding value in this podcast, please head over to iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to the podcast. And please leave a rating and review. This is actually very helpful for us to get this podcast in front of more clinicians and really help them develop time and financial freedom.

So if you would do that, I would greatly appreciate it. [00:34:00] Now back to the podcast.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think. It's been really cool to see most of, uh, most patch members, um, are hiring. Like everybody's trying to hire right now, which is really cool to see. Um, and you know, once you find that hire, you onboard them, they're good to go.

Uh, we create. Like a full marketing campaign around this person because we want everybody in our community to know who they are. Uh, I look at it as and what I did with ripple is like, I want to get to make break as soon as possible with this person so that I'm not, you know, just carrying their, um, their overhead with me for three months as they're trying to get built up.

So we're trying to build that person up as quickly as possible. And I think that like. That eases the kind of the pain of hiring for a lot of clinic owners to when like, they're like, I don't know if I can take on this overhead. Like, this is really scary. This is a big step, like totally understand that.

But if we can guarantee like, you know, you're going to be profitable [00:35:00] on this person, or at least making even on them within 30 days, that makes hiring that person a lot easier. Um, so yeah, we create a full like email marketing campaign around this person. We highlight who they are, what their background is, you know, what value add they're going to bring to the clinic.

What is their niche of people they really work with? You know, we advertise like a lower barrier offer for them to come in for an evaluation. We help other clinic owners. And again, like this is thinking of it, it's, it's much more than just an email campaign. You can't just send out a couple of emails and get this person full.

We help people understand, like, how do we reactivate old patients? So we under, we take a look at their, like their session logs and see, Who are the people that haven't been in the clinic in the last 30 days? Last 60 days. Uh, let's reach out to them and let's figure out like, who do we want to reach out personally?

Because you know who that person is and let's just shoot them a text and say, Hey, uh, haven't seen you in a while. We've got this awesome PT on board. [00:36:00] They've got full schedule availability right now. Why don't you come in? It's 50 bucks. Um, would love to have you have you come in. Um, so we have like a tons of different strategies with that.

Um, even, you know, one of the, one of the big ones that we do with like, especially solo, uh, clinic owners, if they're hiring their first staff member, there's going to be a dozen people that just weren't able to make the clinic owner schedule work. So say like they wanted to come, the only time they can come in is Wednesday at 5.

PM. It's like, let's find those people. Let's remember who those people were. And let's reach out to them and say. Hey, like, I know, like, I wasn't able to accommodate your schedule. I know things are tight timing wise. Guess what? We have this new PT who has full schedule availability. If you want that Wednesday at 5 p.

m. It is now yours. Come in. We've got an offer for you. Um, and I think that's where like, we're not even talking about ads or lead gen at that point. Right. Of like, I think, and what we used to do at Ripple and what we've seen with some of the patch, [00:37:00] uh, patch members is we can get a, uh, PT schedule full just from that reach out of old patients and understand, and, and that's where the messaging comes into play too of you can't just say, Hey, we got a 50 evaluation.

We want to come in if you can personalize that just a touch and say, again, like the timing wise, or this guy specializes in runners. You know, I'm more of a generalist or whatever it is, like you're going to have, you're going to hit it off with this person. It's going to be awesome. Um, and really just like, just pumping the tires for this new PT.

Um, and. I tell people this all the time to have, you can't just post it one time. And as soon as you start to think like, am I posting this too much? You have to double the amount of times that you're talking about this. And you really have to lean into it. So that's where our social media strategy comes into play.

We have loads of examples on how to highlight a new PT that's coming in, what types of posts you should put up there. Um, So again, it's just, it's a huge system. And that's one of the ones that we're seeing is working [00:38:00] the best of you get a new PT on board. Let's fill this person up. We call it like the, you know, the, the framework to 25 sessions a week, you know, ASAP basically.

And we're seeing that happen in like five to eight weeks right now, which is pretty awesome.

Danny: That's so fast because I think especially your very first clinician you hire is Is the sketchiest 1, um, especially if you don't have any sort of, uh, predictable way of, of helping build their schedule. Um, you know, and, uh, when we did it, it was basically just like, overflow from my schedule.

Right? And I think that's for a lot of people whenever they, they hire their 1st, um, they hire their 1st PT is just, oh, they'll just take the overflow where it only lasts for so long as well as like, these are also still people that are like, Really looking to work with you and now you're kind of punting them to somebody else and um, you haven't done Maybe done a good job of building them up so Yeah, I mean without something like this we tend to see [00:39:00] Three to six months before somebody is not even 25 visits a week sometimes Sometimes it'll take three to six months to get them where they're at 15 if somebody's not doing a good job of of driving, you know new people in the door and the other thing you got to keep in mind is if You If you are unable to drive revenue into your business and you're dependent on your staff, uh, to basically market themselves, they are going to leave like they're going to, because you're, you're basically put them in the position of being a.

intrapreneur unintentionally. So they have risk associated with that. You're, they're learning how to market and sell themselves. You've incubated them into a, uh, you know, a cash practice incubator, you know, that unintentionally. And, uh, then once they get comfortable with that and they realize, Oh, I'm just doing this all myself.

I'm just having, this is a place where I see people. Yeah. Oftentimes they leave and they go start their own thing. Um, so it's a huge mistake. I think you have to own the marketing. You have to own the [00:40:00] selling on the front end. They can get involved in like local marketing stuff too to some degree, but be careful with how much you do that because it'll wear them out.

It's very tiring to do a lot of that. Um, and you know, that's a skill set that you really want to drive as the business owner more so than fulfillment should be a huge part of it. So it gets me up to where they're 20 to 25 visits a week in, you know, let's call it within six to eight weeks. Game changer, because then all of a sudden, yeah, now your constraint is leadership and finding people pipeline of being able to hire and maybe your space to which all of these things are far better problems to have to solve.

Then how the heck do I get my clinician past 510 visits a week? They're about to leave. You know, they're frustrated.

Jeremy: There's I mean, there's nothing worse than that feeling to have, like, Like just being on eggshells at all time, like, is this person gonna leave? Are they gonna stay? Like, are they gonna like, and I talked to like, again, like, especially the first hire.

Um, it's, uh, I've got them doing, you know, five workshops this month and they're doing all this stuff. I'm [00:41:00] like, That is not the route you want to go. Like you need to, you are now, it's not just you anymore. Like you have to look at it as you're running a business and you are the business owner, so you have to own this marketing arm and you have to have a system in place to, to really build that, that clinician up because at the end of the day, and this is how I looked at things with the ripple is.

I want my staff members to be physical therapists and be really good at being a PT and really enjoy this. And if they have to do, if they have the, you're going to hire them and make them work every Saturday morning for the next 12 weeks, they're not going to last very long. Um, so you have to have a system in place to, to get them built up and feel like this, this guy's got his stuff together, which is awesome because I've, I've got a full caseload and I don't have to worry about leads coming in.

And, um, you know, I think everybody like even, even new PTs that are like, Joining a cash clinic. They understand that, you know, lead flow is, is going to be tricky because it's not the insurance route anymore. You're not just getting fed all these [00:42:00] insurance patients. So if you can show as the business owner that, Hey, I'm going to fill your schedule up.

And if the biggest problem is. I had five evals this week. That was way too much. Like I always like enjoyed hearing that from my staff members. Like I'm doing my job on my end. Let's make sure you feel comfortable and we'll build you up that with what's going to work with you. But, um, it's just a really, it makes you sleep better at night at the end of the day of like, do you know that you can get this person full and they're feeling fulfilled in their job?

Like that's how you create culture. That's how you're able to bring on the next provider. Um, and again, like you want to like these local, uh, marketing events are crucial to your business for sure, but you and your staff members should want to do them and they should be like, Oh, this is a really cool event.

I really loved meeting the community. Um, those like, again, that's just how you, how you build culture and you get people to stick around.

Danny: And they can be fun when you're not doing them, uh, [00:43:00] too often, you know, so being able to educate the people that want to learn that information is a lot of fun, uh, you know, being able to do an injury screen and help move people from a place where they're not sure what to do to the right place.

It's great. Right? But again, yeah, the cadence of that. You have to be careful with doing that too much. Um. And really, you're hiring people to be great clinicians, and you should spend more of your time focused on, you know, making sure that they're getting ongoing ed work, mentorship, and that they're reviewing, you know, case studies together so that they can get better together.

And that's actually, I think, what a lot of clinicians want that are, they're really more interested in becoming a great clinician. And that's the kind of people that I want to hire. Like, I want to hire people that want to be amazing clinicians, and they leave a, In network job because now they don't like being a physical therapist.

They don't feel like they have the time and the ability to use their skill set the way that it deserves because they've worked really hard on it. And now they get a chance to really, you know, be the artist of a of a person [00:44:00] that they are and, uh, and apply that in a setting where there's no constraints really.

And that's, that's cool for them. That's super fun. Right? Um, and, and you gotta, you know, they have to have a patient load in order to do that. I would say the other thing that You know, is interesting to see is some of these reason why campaigns and being able to tie those in with different activities, you know, in different times of the year to where if we look at, like, if we look at a year, right, bringing a new provider on that is not nearly as predictable as.

Uh, you know, spring break or something like that that comes over here or, uh, Christmas or whatever, you know, these set events that we know are going to happen that we can build marketing around and have this whole year planned out with some of these reason why campaigns and then sprinkle in the other things that we're going to do and later.

Um, ads on top of that. And that's really what it comes down to is like organization of your internal marketing, layering on ads, layering on, you know, local events and improving reputation in your area. And if you do all of [00:45:00] that, everything falls together. So let's talk about the seasonal stuff. Like what have you found?

It seems to be like, man, these are going great. And these things, you know, are really driving a lot of new, uh, new people in the door.

Jeremy: Yeah. I think that's, it's important to remember too, and looking at it like on the whole and like as a full year of. You know, with marketing, what you have to do is understand, you know, what is your community demographic people that are coming to your clinic?

What, what are the, what are the problems that they're dealing with right now? And like, we, we obviously like drill that down into quarters, right? So for Q2, we're thinking about, you know, and this is stuff that I do in Q1, I started thinking about Q2 to put these marketing campaigns together, which I think is important that.

A lot of people have to understand, but you know, so Q2, right? It's April, May and June. So what are the problems that my community are dealing with in April, May and June? And how do we position Ripple physical therapy or your clinic or whatever it [00:46:00] is, um, to be the solve for whatever problem that is. So thinking Q2 specifically, you know, I'm talking Boston.

I think this is really countrywide too, but It's, you know, it was winter, a lot of people hole up during the winter, even if you, you know, live in a, in a warmer climate. So they're getting back into a fitness routine. It's nicer outside. They're getting outdoors. One of the things that we really lean into is a lot more people are starting to run again right now.

So putting a, you know, if you, if you have an active community and everyone's getting outdoors and running. Talk about that and under and put yourself in their shoes. And you know, the big thing I always talk about with marketing is when you're sending an email campaign out, someone should read that email and be like, man, Danny was talking directly to me when he wrote that email.

Like I read that and I felt as though like him and I were having a conversation. So understanding. You know, if somebody is trying to go out and run 15, 20 miles a week, like they were [00:47:00] doing, uh, in the fall or last summer, but they haven't run for three months, how do we talk to the problems that they're dealing with right now?

Maybe they went out and they've done a couple of runs and their calf flared up again, or they're feeling a lot tighter in their hips, um, than they were last year. And how do we. Again, like understand that problem and clearly clearly define the problem and then position ourselves as the experts to help them get back to running.

Um, so that's one of the ones that we look at in Q2, that seems to be a theme across the board, um, especially like in new England, right? It's like, we got the Boston marathon coming up on Monday, so. In Boston, like even if you're not running in the marathon, it's hard not to go buy a new pair of shoes and go run because the energy around the marathon, um, it's, it's contagious.

So, um, we get loads of non marathon runners that come in around this time because of that. So [00:48:00] we understand that we lean into that. We lean into the marathon. So it's really understanding again, like in your community, what's going on. I think a lot of it is to, um, just being nice out in spring and people are getting outdoors more and they're doing more active things outdoors, whether it's hiking or pickleball or tennis, or they're going for hikes or whatever it might be.

How do we speak to being more active because it's nice out. And if you want to continue doing those things all summer long, we are the solve. So you can go and do those things because during the couple of winter months where you're not as active or you're just in a gym routine or whatever it might be, You need to prep yourself to be able to do that.

And we speak to, and a lot of our messaging is in longevity and just being able to do the things you love, which I think like those are the people we also want to work with too. So if we can identify again, like, what is it that people want to do? April, May and June. Again, that's going to be get [00:49:00] outdoors and do stuff outside and we can position ourselves as a solve for them to continue doing that and do it pain free.

Um, that's huge. Uh, that's just really important. And, um, you know, we kind of, we even look into like summer months, right? So if. You know, we, we kind of backtracked for some of the campaigns we run, uh, like 12 weeks from 4th of July. If somebody wants to run like a, like a, a deal around that, it's like, Hey, you got 12 weeks till the 4th of July.

We call it the spring six pack campaign. And we kind of leaned into that and like, Hey, you know, You know, you're going to be outdoors. You're going to have boat days. You want to get yourself prepped. Uh, if you just walk into the gym and try to do it on your own, it's not going to work that well. So if you come here to this awesome, progressive hybrid style of PT that we do, you're going to be able to do that.

And you're going to do that successfully. Um, so you can always find a reason why for people to come back in the door. As long as you can identify what is the problem they're having right now. What is [00:50:00] that gray space between their aspirational identity, what they actually want, um, and how do we position ourselves as a solve for that?

So that's really what we look at in Q2.

Danny: Yeah, I think you bring up a good point with the running, uh, you know, and, and things that are happening in real time. Right? Like this is master's week right now. And every time the masters comes on, I feel like I need to play golf, you know, who, who knows how many people feel the same way.

They're just like, oh, man, I got to play golf. Like it's masters, you know, it's a, and then maybe they can't because their back is bothering them or something. Right. And, and, uh, all of a sudden, you know, here comes an email that's, uh, you know, bringing up the masters and how the weather's getting nicer and, you know, You know, then, you know, a reason why to come in to get seen for something that stopped me from being able to do those things.

And it can make a ton of sense with the right type of clinic, you know, so some of it's just thinking through, what are you paying attention to? You know, like, what are the things that are important to you that you and your friends talk about? And, um, and especially if you're involved in the niche you're trying to work with, it's as simple as that.

Like, what kind of conversations are you [00:51:00] having with your buddies about the masters, about golf, about whatever, right? I mean, literally I had somebody text me yesterday that's on body mind for since middle school. And he's like, all right. Got to play golf. It's like, it's yeah. All right. It's that time of the year, you know, so plenty of people are thinking those things, the Boston marathon, right?

They're just start running. The weather's getting nicer. So it's almost like you got to put yourself inside the, you know, the mind of the, the, the person you're trying to work with. And oftentimes it's not that hard because it's probably very similar to you and the people that you're around. So, um, to, to finish it out, I'd like to finish talking about drop off points with some of this, because on the marketing side, We focus very much on the front end.

We focus very much on the ad. We focus very much on the campaign. But there are statistical drop off points that can really make a massive difference in whether somebody is going to have a successful campaign or not. And sometimes the challenge is they don't know what to track. They don't know these different throughputs that can be problematic.

And, [00:52:00] um, It's a shame if you turn off or you stop doing something that is actually working because you just didn't do it quite right. Uh, that's actually worse than doing nothing at all, in my opinion, because you're like, you're so close and you just missed it. Um, so what do you, what do you see, especially with inbound, when people are paying money with ASP, right?

Um, for drop off points that really people should be aware of and maybe what they could do to solve some of that.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think it's we break it down into a couple different stages and we track this and report on it and make changes based on the data we're seeing. I think it's really important to understand.

But we go from. Point of reach out, uh, we really track like again, discovery call, um, whether it's discovery, call form, fill out, however you want to do it, whatever your clinic is doing. Uh, what did that point to to reach out? How many of those people are scheduling an evaluation? So what percent of people that are reaching out are scheduling an eval?

And then those people that are scheduling the eval. How many people [00:53:00] are showing up for that evaluation to that show rate? It's very important to understand. Um, then the people that actually show up to those evals. How many people are purchasing a package? How many people are getting into a plan of care from there?

I think a lot of people do a really good job with that. It's a really obvious, obviously a really important metric to know. Um, but then like what I focus on the most with ripple is how many people are purchasing package. How many people are buying a second package? How many people are sticking around? Um, if you can unlock that.

Again, like it makes scaling your clinic and you don't need to depend on a ton of lead flow coming in because people are sticking around and you have like, uh, again, your new, your new PG, that's coming on board. They have a dependable repeatable schedule because more and more people are purchasing a second package.

So let's talk about that for just

Danny: a second though. Yeah. I don't wanna, I don't wanna you over. This is incredibly important and it's the concept of lifetime value. And when you're, we have a new business, it's very hard to understand what your lifetime value is 'cause you don't [00:54:00] have enough information yet.

But as, as a, I guess a generalization, we look at similar businesses. Usually the front end sort of value of a client that we see in the businesses that we work with is about 1500 to $2,000 is what a client is worth. For most people on average, um, could be a little bit more, could be a bit less depending on where you're at, your price point, the number of sessions in a plan of care, stuff like that.

But those people that are doing a good job of developing recurring services, ongoing continuity, uh, services that they feel a need for people that provide a lot of value. We can see their lifetime value two to three X, uh, just from that. So now imagine. On the front end, you're at a thousand dollars. Let's say is what is what you're you're going to make per client on the front end.

And you have no sort of like strategy whatsoever to get people people around. And all of a sudden, you can go from that to something that's well orchestrated that goes to [00:55:00] 3000 dollars. We take the same marketing idea. Of you're paying basically a hundred dollars to acquire a uh, a customer you went from a 10x roi to a 30x roi And if you didn't know that you would have no idea that maybe you should double down on investing more money in marketing and why would you not like if you went to a If you went to a slot machine, you put a dollar in and you pulled the arm and then it gave you 30 back out, you would probably play that until they kicked you out of the casino.

And this is what we're talking about with a business. If you actually understand this, so the back end, the lifetime value is a whole nother conversation, but to your point, these drop off points, that's a big one, right? How many people are coming back and actually have repeat service because you don't have a cost to acquire those people anymore.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, it's again, it's just that was the metric that I was, again, like I, I was maniacal about that. I was on and that's how we developed all of our back end systems for ripple and now patches. Like, We need to understand where people, when people are two sessions away from their [00:56:00] packages being up and we need to start pre framing continuity and we need to start like talking to them about that or hitting them with an email that says, like, you know, I think I've talked about this before, but one of the most open emails that we send for Ripple, it's an automated email, but the subject line just says, um, we're don't worry.

We're not kicking you out. And it kind of goes into like, Hey, just so you know. You know, you've been with us for 12 weeks. You've had awesome, uh, awesome results so far, but we have this other option for you. It's a little bit cheaper if you want to stick around with us. Um, and we convert, um, I haven't looked at the number in a bit, but we're at like 55 percent for that.

So more than half of the people that were purchasing initial package with us, we're purchasing again. It's just a, such a massive unlock for, for a business. Again, like if you're, if you're not tracking that, you have no idea and you're kind of running in the dark.

Danny: Yeah, that's smart. I mean, and, and that's actually a great point because people don't know, [00:57:00] I mean, historically physical therapy is get them in and discharge.

Traditional physical therapy, which would make sense. Your post surgical, you know, whatever, you had something, uh, acute that happened, something like that, whatever. A lot of people we're seeing are more like active, uh, adults that are trying to stay that way for as long as they can. And in their mind, they would like to be proactive.

I didn't think this was the case until we started to have customers who come back. Involuntarily and would express to me how important it was for them to be, you know, healthy and to say that way. Uh, so I think as a, as a clinician, you almost feel like if you're not discharging somebody, you're doing the wrong thing.

Like that maintenance is basically a, a curse word, uh, in, in our profession. But you, you, even though you might feel that way, you can't say what other people say. Assigned value to and lots of people go to many different set of specialties to do ongoing preventative work to take care of [00:58:00] themselves. And, you know, there's 2, there's 2 sizes.

Some people are, are, I think, every, they think everybody should come back for, for recovery, maintenance work, performance work, whatever. And then the other side is like. You know, more of the exercise based sort of clinician. That's that's just like you come to see me as little as possible. And I'm just going to give you stuff to do.

And you need to do it. And both of those may be true. But the reality is, what is the customer want? And that is the key because I don't think you should tell unless it's going to be. Bad for them, like it's going to be bad for their health when they should tell anybody what they should or shouldn't do.

Um, as far as services are concerned. Um, because if they assign value to it and they see value in it and they feel better. It's worth a lot to them, a ton to them, you know, and you're able to provide that for them. So that's something I had a hard time getting over because I feel much more into the exercise camp where I'm like, I'm going to program this for you and just do it forever, basically.

And you're going to be good to go, but also don't have that internal [00:59:00] accountability. Like, it just doesn't work that way. So you've got to be able to find the business happy medium between what you think people want, what they actually want and what services. Align with that right and like to actually have a continuity offer.

That's not just at the end of it. It's like, oh, yeah I guess if you want to come back cool, like that's not a continuity offer. That's a terrible country offers It's really pre framing what that would look like what other people look like stories and and frameworks of like other clients And what they've been able to do now that they're not constantly getting hurt and having to come back here, right?

It's almost just like Do you want to wait for your car to break down again before you go get some maintenance done on it? Or maybe do you want to take care of some of these things along the way so that, you know, you can, you can, you can use it forever. Uh, and that's our bodies. We have one vehicle in life.

You know, I can speak personally, like I tore my meniscus a few months ago and dude. I am a unhappy, grumpy person. Anytime somebody asked me to play a sport, I got challenged by six, 10 year old girls in a foot race the other day. And I had to decline, uh, and I am just like grumpy as could be because my, the [01:00:00] things that I enjoy, I've not, I can't do right now.

So, you know, if, and if I put that into words in copywriting, I'll kill it with somebody that's like me in an ad, because we're thinking the exact same things and we can feel it. So, you know, like. It is very valuable. And when those things are removed from people, they will see a lot of value in what you do far more than what you're probably even charging.

Uh, and, and we just undervalue that constantly. And then we undervalue what people want going forward. So, you know, anyway, let the clients tell you what they want. And build something around that, that is mutually beneficial for the business and that person.

Jeremy: Yeah. I think that's like, we're talking drop off points, right?

Like that was the, that was the biggest unlock that we've seen with patch customers where like I, we started putting these systems in place and even just like, you know, training your staff members on that, like this is a very important part of our onboarding process for new PTs that are coming into. To ripple is, um, you know, you're the expert with this.

Like you, when somebody, when somebody is done with the package, you tell them what you think is going to be best for them. You've [01:01:00] got to know them over the last three months. You say, Hey, you need to continue. If you want to, you want to do this massive hike this summer, you better still come in here one time a week.

Um, we're going to strength train and this is what it's going to look like. Um, but you know, if you have these goals and this is like what you actually want to do, this is again, solidifying yourself as the expert, you tell them. Here's, here's our continuity package sheet. This is what this looks like. I suggest you continue coming in one time a week.

You leave it there. Patients trust you at this point and you're doing what's best for them. I think it's a win win all around. Um, but again, most of the people that we've started working with, they weren't even approaching that. Like you said, they were just like, you can continue coming in one time a month if you want to.

Um, you know, I think that, that, that will be fine. This is kind of the only offer that we have. As soon as we change that and you start training your staff on that, and you put the systems in place, um, again, your, your business is going to thrive, but also the patients are going to be way happier. So that's [01:02:00] a, it's a win, win across the board.

Danny: Well, one of the, one of the first really, um, you know, successful continuity programs I ever saw, this was when, when I first started doing work with other businesses, it was just, uh, I would take. Two to three month contracts where I would just work with people on specific things that we're trying to improve.

I didn't know if there's something I actually was interested in or whatever, but I was getting enough interest where, um, I was willing to give it a shot. And one of the clinics that I worked with, they had a really interesting ongoing, um, continuity offer where they basically did like mobility training with the people.

Um, and it was a mixture of essentially like FRC style kind of work. Uh, and, and I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna oversimplify this because I think if they heard me, they'd be like, oh my God, it's so much more complex than this. But basically FRC and, and like a training session, um. And that stuff is tedious.

It's really easy to do it wrong. It's hard. It feels hard. And uh, you feel good after you do it, right? So your, your body feels pretty good afterwards. So yeah, it's super sticky. I totally get it. [01:03:00] And when I looked at them at the time, they had two providers. They were hiring a third one. And when we were looking at new patient, um, you know, volume each month, they were averaging about, six people.

So only three per provider per month. And they were maxed out. And it was because the retention rate on, uh, people that were coming in that were hurt. And once they weren't, they were sticking around. It was like 90%. It was so high and it was 90 percent for most of them coming back once a week. Um, it forever basically.

So, you know, as they scaled, and I'm sure they're much bigger now. Like they just don't need to find that many new people because the way that they run their their model is basically You know this type of training in perpetuity for as long as you want to be healthy um, and the people that they that they work with Rave about it great reviews that they get like they love it.

And in my mind, it's like, you know I'm kind of like dude, maybe teach them how to do it and then send them on their way, right? But that's not what these [01:04:00] people wanted. They wanted somebody to take them through it. They wanted the accountability They wanted the coaching they value that and You Don't undervalue that might be the case because not only is that an incredible thing for those folks that are trying to stay healthy, but man, for their business, imagine the difference between having to find 15 new people per person or three, like the stress of that in your business is just so much, it's just so much easier to manage finding a handful of people versus a massive amount of new, um, clients per provider that you have at scale, you know, multiply that by six people, right?

It's, it's huge. So. Yeah. And definitely make it work. It just has to align with your skill set and the things that you're, you know, you see value and they see value.

Jeremy: Yeah. And then it gets back to the, like, again, the lead gen side of things, which is always going to be, you know, something that we always have to focus on.

If you're doing a good job and you're tracking and you're understanding, like, you know, if we get 20 new patients this month, I can. You know, predict in three months from now, 10 of them are going to continue working with us for at [01:05:00] least another three months. And then, you know, what we're seeing is if people work with us for six months, they're not going anywhere ever again, unless they move to another state is really what it is.

Um, so I think that's another really important thing to understand is if you're built into somebody's routine for six months, They're not going to leave and you can continue providing this awesome service, especially the demographic of people that all cash based clinics see is, you know, we're not just, we don't have like standard patients in the door.

These people are going out and they're running marathons and they're doing big hikes and they're doing a hundred mile bike rides. They're going to hurt themselves again, regardless of all the prehab that you do, they're going to push it. So eventually they're going to need. Quote unquote PT again. Um, so I think looking at it like that as well, it's just like, it's, it's a, it's a different mindset, but, um, you know, that's how you grow a business for sure.

Danny: Yeah. All right. Well, in summary, marketing, what's working, Google seems to be doing better than Facebook. [01:06:00] Especially if you want fewer people that are more qualified. That is something that we've definitely noticed not just this quarter, but really, um, for, for years. Uh, it's been the case, but but even more.

So I would say this quarters. We have more and more data to kind of look at that. Uh, if I was spending money on ads for a cash based practice, I would pick, um, Google over Facebook. Uh, if I want to get more, you know, high intent individuals in the door, um, internal campaigns, highlight your people that are, that are either starting or just started with your company, really like share how awesome they are and give people a reason to come back in and check them out, uh, to, to see if it's a good fit for them as well.

Um, don't forget about seasonal things that are going on, relevant things in the, you know, in the year. That are, uh, important to your population of people you work with and, you know, wrap, um, campaigns around that. There are reasons why they might want to come back in and see you again. Uh, you know, like it's pretty simple marketing, but it takes some effort to think through it and to really be able to speak to the people that are, they're trying to get [01:07:00] to come back in.

Um, that's the hard part. I think it's like the copywriting of this of it. It's like, okay, yeah, I want to talk about the masters. What the hell did I say, right? That is very, very hard. I think that takes a long time to get good at that. And then we're looking at monthly, uh, metrics of drop offs. You know, one of the big areas is people that are inquiring and those being dropped off.

Uh, so make sure you're tracking that, especially if you're going to be spending money on ads. And then on the back end, really don't forget, like, I remember there's a phrase that one of my first mentors would say, We said, amateurs focus on the front end, pros focus on the back end. And what he, what he meant by that was you just look at the initial revenue generated from a sale in your business like that you're missing out on actually the bigger chunk of that, which is recurring services, uh, which dramatically increased the lifetime value of somebody in your business and, and, and make your business much more stable as well as.

You can grow much faster and more predictably, um, if, if you look at that, so make sure you understand what you're tracking and the drop off points of that. Um, and it all needs to tie in [01:08:00] with something that is creating a consistent, uh, data set for you, uh, an ecosystem that you can look at and clearly understand what's happening with your marketing.

Otherwise, It is very challenging to understand what's going on and almost not even worth trying to do this stuff because you're just guessing and you could be right, you could be wrong, you could turn off something that's working, you could keep something going that's not. Either way, it's not a good outcome for your clinic.

Did I miss anything with that?

Jeremy: No, I think the only thing I would have to add with that is, you know, backend systems that reign supreme 100%. I think like, you know, relevant information that we're seeing right now is the improving the point of, say, we'll just take discovery call to schedule initial evaluation.

If you can improve that again, our service is so awesome. Cashbase PT. Once people experience it, they get in the door. They never want to leave because it is far above like anything else that we do. So what, what, like we're focusing on is [01:09:00] if you can get people on the phone, can, you know, convince them it's not the right word, but like educate them on what we're going to do and get them to show up for that evaluation.

Then you've got a customer for life is really how I look at it. Um, and if you can increase that, if you can double, if say every 10 people that book a call and you're converting three of them, if you can get six, seven, eight of those people to come in. That's that's huge. Um, and that's probably like the biggest hole that we're seeing right now is new lead to just coming in for an evaluation.

So if you can fix that, um, you're gonna be in really good shape.

Danny: Yeah. And I mean, I'll give you, I'll leave it with this relevant, like, very recent sort of example. There's a, there's a kid that plays ultimate frisbee with my, with my son, and he hurt his knee in a soccer game, like in a club league that he plays in.

And I saw this kid a couple weeks ago, limping around on the field, and I didn't say anything to, uh, him or his parents. I don't like to, you know, Randomly go up to people's kids and, um, ask him about [01:10:00] like injuries. It is not something I typically will do, but his mom reached out to me and was like, Hey, um, you know, my son hurt his knee.

We're not sure what to do. We've gotten mixed opinions from the club has, I guess, like athletic trainers on staff that have looked at it and they just kind of didn't really know. So, anyway, take a look at this kid and. Uh, it looked like he's lucky he didn't do something really, you know, worse. Uh, he's really fortunate, but he still had swelling like four weeks out.

He's still limping. Um, and yet he still do playing sports. Right. And, and, uh, so I'm like, listen, this is more than just a little thing going on. I want him, I really wanted to go see a provider that does this every day. So I sent him to the clinic that we sold, uh, to a guy that I know is specialized in like post op ACL return to support stuff in particular.

And we know one of the things that she was really concerned about, she was like, well, what's it cost? You know? And I, as I explained it to her, she's like, that seems like a lot. And, and, you know, and what's funny is it's like, we talk about this stuff all the time, but they'd never been to a clinic like this and I told her, I said, listen, [01:11:00] it's, you are not going to have to second guess whether you're in the right place.

You're going to get on time every time they're going to work with you. You know exactly what's going on. They're going to know exactly your name. They're not going to be in there with 3 other people at the same time. And we're talking about, like, a month later, your son is still having problems. Like, are you really concerned about, you know, a couple hundred bucks to go to the right place versus get punted around the system of the child health care system that they were a part of?

And she was like, that's a good point, you know, so I talked to her at the game the other day and they bought a 10 visit package. They're ecstatic. They're like, Oh, my God, this guy's amazing. You know, he played college sports. He was referencing all of this stuff about the mindset of coming back from injury, which their son is having a hard time with.

And she's like, so happy that they went this direction. Right. But the barrier to even get in was the fact that. You're not necessarily in network with their interns, but most everybody's had a bad experience with being in network. So to your point, man, I think you've got to understand a sell and market because we know what we do is super way [01:12:00] more valuable.

We charge for it, but just to get people in is sometimes the hardest part. That's why you got to be diligent on the follow up. That's why you get to work on sales. Why you got to work on marketing? Cause we can't do that. I think about here's a 13 year old limping around, literally creating more problems for himself for a month.

And no one has caught this. And I'm like in my garage, I haven't treated patient in two years. And within 10 minutes, I can tell you, you've got a problem going on. You need to go see somebody else. And it's just so crazy to me that the average medical experience is awful. So, you know, just getting in there is the hard part.

And once they're there, it's like, they'll never go somewhere else. Well, how could they, it's so much better.

Jeremy: Yeah, again, and that's where I like you start that awesome experience like with a call. And if you're talking to the owner of that clinic and you have a, you, you already explained all of those worries away on a phone call, like again, like your, your product is going to speak for itself, get them in the door.

Um, that's the most important thing.

Danny: That's it. Well, Jeremy, thanks for sharing all of your, uh, your marketing [01:13:00] knowledge. If people are interested in patch, because there's, there's two options you have, by the way, with this. You can do what Jeremy and I did, which is just, you know, spend a ton of time and money and effort learning how to market, uh, for our own practices.

Or at this point with something, somebody like Jeremy with Patch that exists, you can literally hire him and his team to do all this stuff for you. And you can focus on building a team, being a great leader, Building an amazing community and hiring great people like, like delivering amazing product and service.

Uh, and if you want to do that patches, the, the, the best in the industry that I've seen. So if people are interested in learning how they can like get your team to help actually support them and drive more patient volume, help them scale, like what's the next step for them to learn more.

Jeremy: Yeah, they can go to patch system dot com.

Um, they can book a call with me. I'm always happy to demo out everything that we do kind of show you. It's, it's one thing for me to talk about all this stuff. It's another thing to actually see it. Um, so, you know, talking to clinic, uh, clinic owners all week long. So people can book a call with me there.

I'm posting a [01:14:00] bunch of stuff on Instagram as well. If they want to follow me there. Uh, just Jeremy DuPont, um, and super easy to find, but, um, yeah, those would be the two places.

Danny: Yeah, cool. No, I love it, man. Thanks so much for your time as always. We appreciate it and guys. Hey, thank you so much for Uh for watching the live stream if you're in the facebook group and listening to the podcast or listening to it there as always We appreciate it and we'll check you out next week.

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