E424 | Cash-Based Practice Start Up With William Schopp

Danny: [00:00:00] So I'm probably similar to many of you in the fact that I'm not very good with technology and for years I ran my practice on a platform, a big platform that I had lots of issues with. And never once was I able to get on the phone with somebody to actually help me out with the problem that I was having.

This is one of the main reasons why we decided to switch over to PT everywhere, because when we got. Every time that we've had a problem, I can reach out to their customer service and I'm actually talking to another human being that knows what's going on with my platform that can help solve a problem for me and me, not spin my wheels, trying to figure out all by myself and wasting my entire day.

It's one of the reasons why we love the platform so much. We love the people so much. Started by Cash-based Practice Owner, and really the goal is to help practices, cash-based practices like ours grow scale and be as efficient as we possib. Can be. So if you've been frustrated with lack of customer service of somebody responding to you and helping answer your questions, look [00:01:00] no further.

PT Everywhere does an amazing job by helping you be successful with their platform. So head over to pt everywhere.com and check out what they've got going on. So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't wanna see 30 patients a day, who don't want to work home health and have real student loans create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about?

This is the question, and this podcast is the answer. My name's Danny Mate, and welcome to the PT Entrepreneur Podcast.

PT Entrepreneur podcast, going live in the PT Entrepreneurs Facebook group. If you're. In the Facebook group, you're listening on the podcast, definitely jump in there. You can get a, be a part of the conversation. Sure. Just listen to us talk. But we got an opportunity to chat with one of our mastermind members, a guy who's killing it in Los Angeles right now.

William Shop. I mispronounce his name for a year. Dude. It's like people, what people do with me. They [00:02:00] just don't, they don't say it. They don't correct me. But the name of his practice is the Movement Shop, which makes no sense if it's the movement. She, which is what I said for hour long, however long.

So it's super cool. Play on words. We said you're gonna either be a mechanic, like an auto shop, a butcher, or a physical therapist, so you went with pt. So we get to dive into that today. But thanks so much for your time today. Yeah,

William: Danny, thanks for having me, man. I'm.

Danny: Let's do this man. And we to start from, the beginning.

Physical therapy is we think is a great profession. Everybody has their own unique way of getting into it. I'd love to hear how you got there. So tell me about this, like how did you end up going to physical therapy school?

William: So like probably a lot of other people in high school.

I, I broke my knee playing football and then went to a PT and kind of found my mentor. But before that I actually wanted to be a psychologist. I think like a lot of other entrepreneurs, I had a pretty tough time in high school. Yeah. Whether, too much fun maybe and not enough.

And I had I started a t-shirt company in high [00:03:00] school. I've always been very entrepreneurial. So I didn't even know if I wanted to be, PT, psychology, start a business, whatever. So I started a business in high school and and it was fun. It was profitable for being 15 years old and.

Just printing t-shirts with logos and all these different things. Wow. But yeah, I was that weird kid, like running compound interest formulas in history class.

Danny: Dude, I hear you man. And I actually would love to stop on this for a second because I was chatting with a body last night I had dinner with.

It's a he's an entrepreneur. He owns a couple companies between here and Charleston. And we had this discussion he's starting to see, so he has three boys and one of his three boys is. Selling candy at school and stuff like that. And these other two just could care less. They're just like super into sports or whatever they're into.

Do what's your thought on this? Do you feel like, they're this deep ingrained, part of you that you're just an entrepreneur, that's just the way you're built? Or do you feel like it's, people are just they turn into [00:04:00] that over.

William: I feel like it's the way that you're built, it's it's almost like a disease that, like you don't have a choice.

Like you're just born into it. And you're gonna have a tough time until you figure that out. But once you figure it out, man, then you're like on a bullet train to, wherever the next spot is. Which as an entrepreneur can be pretty much anywhere. Yeah. But yeah, I. It's tough in high school though because you see all your friends like, getting good grades and on this right path and I was on the couple different ones.

I didn't know if it was a good thing or a bad thing in high school. It seemed like a bad thing, like not great in school. Although, I'm smart. I just didn't really care. Detention a lot, yeah. But But then, then I started PT school and I finished one, the top of my class with honors.

It's just like about finding something that you get obsessed with and you don't stop until you know you reach that

Danny: goal. Yeah, I I think there's a lot to be said for that. There's a, I think people have their. Independent views on, is that the way you're built is, or do you turn into that and I think there's definitely an [00:05:00] underlying tendencies to find interest in that.

And for sure I'm the sa dude. I was ex exact same way, right? I, there's my brother and sister, not one time did they ever end up in detention. And I was in it a lot. And it was, but I was constantly like trying to figure out ways to do things better with less work. Like how can I, like, why do I have to do it this way?

Why can't I do it that way? Which is very frustrating for teachers, I'm sure, in particular. And to, to your point I think there's elements of a D H D, whatever, baked into that also that are a thousand percent. Yeah, but what's nice about that in some way too is there's, it's difficult to focus, but when you find the things that interest you, it's hyper-focused.

Like in, I think the word obsession is accurate for what you just said. So for you, you were. Slinging t-shirts and stuff like that, which is interesting. So like, how did that even start? Like how did you say you know what, I'm gonna sell t-shirts. I don't know,

William: we [00:06:00] just, just are thinking of something to do too.

One, like create a little bit of a business. A lot of my family, like they own businesses and so I grew up. In that world. But I had a cousin who had started a t-shirt company and he like loved it and he had stickers all over all our cars and all these things, and I was like I wanna do that.

And so just basically did it. Went out and opened up a little business bank account and actually struggled through it. Not like we had any idea what we were doing, but, selling t-shirts to our friends in a high school parking lot and like using that money just to have fun.

Play around with. Yeah.

Danny: Which is cool. It's it's also free. So there's a really good book. It's called The Psychology of Money. I don't know if you've read this or whatever, or listens do, I'm going to an event in August and the guy that wrote it is presenting. And so I've listened to this book and it's really interesting cause it's, cuz he talks about this idea that money equals the ability to do the things you want with the people you want when you want to do them.

That's what it essentially, it just [00:07:00] allows you. To decide what you do more often than someone that doesn't have it. And I think as kids, like looking back at this, and I see this with my son in particular, he's very similar to me in this respect. He doesn't want to ask us for things. He just wants to be able to like, go do stuff that he wants to do.

So we figured this out at an early age and it's like, all right, I've gotta, I don't want to ask mom and dad they tell me no. If I want these kind of shoes, I gotta go buy these kind of shoes myself, or whatever it is. And that means they gotta make money. So the way to make money is whatever for you is.

For me, he was selling many things and like it was, it's just one of those things that like you just figuring it out and being okay with it. But what's funny is like I read this Harvard Business Review article where they talked about They actually talked about if I can find it I'll share 'em with a mastermind.

But it was, it had to do with kids that sold drugs turned into the best entrepreneurs. And it was a really interesting, this is a Harvard Business Review article, by the way. This is not this is like fairly legit. And they talked about the elements of, and this is, it could be shirts as well, whatever, but it's like supply demand.

Marketing, sales, the [00:08:00] ability to b build some thick skin and get turned down. All these things that you learned like with your t-shirts and, but also you get some, like a taste of success, right? It's oh shit, like somebody gave me money for this thing that I made some money off it.

And it feels like you hit a home run. It's it's crazy, right? So fast forward, you go get a doctorate and did you know while you were in school, man, I've gotta do my own thing Or were you just maybe I'll watch audio

William: else, whatever. No. I knew that I had to do my own thing.

And actually I was on my first internship on like in our first year. In Lancaster, which I don't know if you know where Lancaster

Danny: is. Yeah. Pennsylvania is like Amish country, right?

William: No. So we have one of those in California too. Oh, you do? Okay. No, dude, it's like the armpit of California.

Sorry if anybody lives there, but it's like, Not good. So I was like, man I need to do something to get through this. And that's when I found your podcast. And this was like 2018, I guess it was, it would've been 28. Oh no. 2017 probably. Oh, that's, and so like the first episode, it was like you talking about how you were a personal [00:09:00] trainer at that golf course or like the country club or whatever it was.

And Yeah. And then just listen to your story. I. Oh shit, that sounds literally exactly like me. Like I felt like I was like listening to a mirror or something. And so immediately I was like, oh, all right, I'm gonna listen to every single one of these podcasts. So I literally went back and I listened to every single one of the podcasts and just like each one got more and more inspired.

And then throughout PT school I was like, man, PT is literally broken. Like we are not a very good system with through insurance is one of the main problems, but also, Treatment approaches and spending 15, 20 minutes with people and and my internship, that first one wasn't like that great. Of an experience either.

A lot of like workers comp and Right. I was like, man, this sucks, right? If I'm gonna get through this school, like I'm gonna do this thing my way. And so by the time I finished school I graduated in 2018 December, 2018 and passed my boards January like 29th or something like that, and started my business, like my S corp [00:10:00] legitimately on February 12th.

Wow. And so it was like, like a week and a half after finding out, or actually a week after finding out that I passed and. Yeah. And then I just started from there and worked part-time at this outpatient ortho clinic who, mama pop shop, great guy. A cool clinic, but still seeing two people an hour, seeing 17, 18 people a day.

And I was like, man I'm burnt out. And it's been three months. Yeah. And. So long story short, with like fast forward a little bit and it's now March, 2020. Pandemic's, like just getting started, right? My hours are getting cut. I was like, I've been doing my thing on the side for like almost a year.

No, yeah, about a year. And I was like no, no better time than now. So pandemic hit everything, shut down, and I opened Wow. And started my own standalone space then, because at the time I was working part-time at like doing my own thing as like a little side hustle small little space [00:11:00] in a personal training gym.

And and yeah, so pandemic hit and I was like, all right, let's do this thing. And then a couple months after that got engaged. Bought a house. So you did it all. Did you get a dog? No, I didn't get a dog, but not yet.

Danny: That's the, that's like the next thing. It's like dog. Then you get, have a kid, that's funny man.

It's interesting and we take it back a little bit because I think for a lot of people, there's two transition points that we see that are really challenging. Number one is getting started in the first place. And for you, it sounds. Getting started was somewhat just because you were absorbing content that was, just I guess exposing you to a different way of looking at things, but also, you just had a underwhelming experience with, where you were working.

Yeah. And you're starting to, get burned out. And I think that it's like the, it's not like you work any less right now. This is the thing that I think people need to understand and I'd love to hear what you like your thoughts are on this, but if I can trade out the exact same number of hours, but I'm working with the people that I wanna work [00:12:00] with on the project that I find interesting, I don't feel tired the same way I do if I'm working with like a bunch of work comp patients or.

People that I just don't really have much desire to I'm not interested necessarily in being the best in the world at work comp patients. So I'm very fatigued mentally from basically working with people that I don't get a lot of enjoyment out of working with. And as bad as that might sound, cause they need people to work with them, I just don't want to do it, and I just wanted to be able to pick who I wanted to work with. So for you, when you. When you left that position to go all in on what you're doing yourself did you notice a difference in energy level and just willingness to just like spring outta bed in the mornings? I think for a lot of people they struggled with that.

Oh, for sure.

William: And like I was definitely more fired up cuz at the part-time place I was working like 20, 25 hours a week and the rest of the time was spent on my business. But once I left that I was ended up going, 60, 70 hours a week here while 20, [00:13:00] 25 of it was with patient care a week.

Yeah. The rest of it was like actually running the business, which I like because there's no way in hell I could treat for 40 hours a week and. Document and then do that for the rest of my life. I can't, I couldn't do that with anything. Yeah. I have to do like a bunch of different things at the same time or else I'll start losing my mind and and I would be pissed.

My wife would be pissed and everyone else around me would be too.

Danny: Yeah. You're less enjoyable to be around when you're not when you're not doing the things that you get a lot of enjoyment out of it's, in some ways it sounds selfish, I feel like that sometimes and I'm just like, man, I gotta do this shit that I really like other.

I'm not as, I'm not as enjoyable to be around. And maybe that is to some degree, maybe that has something to do with our, underlying disease of being like, like hardline entrepreneurs. But what's cool about what we have an opportunity to do is build a life that supports that, and like for you, if you're like, all right, I don't wanna see that much.

Volume. Then you hire somebody, right? So yeah, there's plenty of things you can do. And if you get a lot of enjoyment out of running the business, which most clinicians are actually like, very reluctant [00:14:00] entrepreneurs. They just realize all right, I don't have much transition opportunity.

No mu no really upward mobility. I'm getting burned out. It's high volume, whatever. I kind of wanna use my skillset this way. So they're like great clinicians. They want to be great clinicians, and then they're forced to go be business owners. It sounds like for. You are somebody that's had aspirations of running a company, but also, you're interested in the clinical side, but more so the business is what seems to be interest you more.

William: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. The ultimate goal is like to end up treating like 10 people a week while I run like a functioning business and have other PTs like work under me. Cuz I, I love treating and I want to treat forever. But I would also like to hire other PTs to get them out of this like mill.

Cuz again, my whole. My whole, one of my whole goals is like to change the PT world in general and everyone's like view of it. So yeah I think the best way to do that is hire more PTs so that they can treat more people in a positive way with an hour, visit mark and, treat however they want [00:15:00] to be more the most effective and efficient.

So yeah, I end up wanting to. Maybe 10 people a week and have a few locations with a handful of PTs just killing the game.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah, it's fun to still be able to work with people, man. There's pros and cons and I've been out of clinic care since December and I don't I miss the, People I don't necessarily miss the structured time with them and the, all the follow up side of it.

If I could just chill with somebody and not necessarily have to like, write a note or follow up email or just manage their plan of care it'd be way better. But that's actually not actually what we do. Yeah. So as an owner you get a chance to be there and network and grow that side of it, which is which is cool.

One thing about with you in particular that is unique is you really you reached out for help early on, and that's something that we don't see typically as much like straight Outta school basically. And I'm trying to think of so when we did our live two day event in Atlanta when you were there, that was, I'm, that was [00:16:00] 2018, right?

That was like right after you.

William: Yeah. Yeah. That was right after I started. I was, I didn't even have a standalone location I was seeing. Maybe six people a week. Yeah. Like maybe the space that I was in was like a 10 by six square foot room. It was tiny. But like you guys always said, and I know, money's a tool and I spend money on three things.

If it's not one of these three things, then I don't, then I don't buy it. And so I'll spend money if it makes me more money. Obvious. If it makes me more time or brings me some sort of joy. And basically I knew that, that first initial fly out to Atlanta, this was before I was in the Mastermind, this was just to go meet up with you guys.

Yeah. And that fulfilled all three of my requirements because I was pumped to be there. Yeah. Made more money from it and I made more time from it. Yeah. And. And so when I decided to join the mastermind, which was I think maybe six months after that, cuz I'm stubborn and I like struggling on my own and I'm just like hardheaded that way, which I feel like a lot of [00:17:00] us are, totally.

But I'll never forget when I decided to join the Mastermind. We were up in Malibu on a surf trip with my fiance at the time. I proposed to her on my birthday. So my birthday doesn't exist anymore. Which I didn't think fully through, but worth it, right? And And I remember sitting there after surfing all day in, in Malibu, we were back in the hotel room and I was like, I like, I wanna do this thing full-time.

And you know why? What? What the hell am I waiting for? And so I called Eve that day and I was like, Hey I'm joining the mastermind. And he was like, oh, okay. Like you wanna hop on a call? I was like, Nope. Let's just let's just do this thing. Sure. And yeah, let's set it up. And so I joined that.

And I think I don't remember, I either hopped on a call you or him after I joined and just like to go through it and tell you where I was. But at the time we weren't making very much money. I think we were doing like maybe 4,000 a month, like gross. And, after joining now, we're.

Doing 16 to 20. Wow. And just hired a pt[00:18:00] about six weeks ago, and so she's killing it. Our admin my first admin actually the one that was in the picture from the one that you've posted today on the Facebook group. She actually left at the end of June cuz she's going to PT school.

So we brought another admin in and and she's killing it, she was like a past patient of mine dealing with hip pain, got her back to squatting. So she knows our, she knows our magic and and so she's pumped and now we're like on this straight ship to needing a bigger space.

Yeah.

Danny: That that's really cool, man. And the. There's a lot that has to happen in those transitions. So I, but I think what you said that is something that I had a very hard time with was first of all, the way you simplify money, I think is genius, right? Hey, is it one of these three things?

If you're sitting down and you're making a decision on what to do with it does it fit into these? Does it not? And I think that actually clears up a lot of anxiety that people have over are they making the right decision or not? And if they have a, buyer's fatigue or they're just, they just, cannot make their mind up about what they should do.

So that's actually great. So I think write those down. Cause I completely agree [00:19:00] with all of that. I think it's very simple. But I when you look at a business and especially coming outta school and having spent so much money on school, most people have a very hard time with the idea of.

Spending money on a skillset that compliments their clinical skillset because if you're, and when some people we work with are two, 300 grand in debt, dude it's shocking to me how much money, some people are coming out of, especially with private schools from PT school, but the vast majority of them are right around a hundred grand.

And so then it's oh dude, I have to spend more money, learn how to run the business side of it even though. You can try to figure it out on your own. It's just it's just not gonna be as fast. And you're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna, you're gonna go slower. You're gonna make like financial mistakes.

And some of those are really nasty. And that's what happened with me. I had to actually go through a really bad expansion where we were expanding to a standalone space and lose a bunch of money. Way more than I put into business education before I, my, I could [00:20:00] check my ego, which was really the problem enough to be like, okay, I need help.

Cause I think there's something also about asking, not actually asking for help, but admitting that you need like help. That you need help to fix something. For you, you came to that conclusion pretty early, so why do you think that is? Cuz most people are just willing to look to get help early on.

They really, many of 'em need to beat their head in, into the wall for two years in some cases, before they realize, all right, this isn't really getting me where I want to be.

William: Yeah. I don't really know why, cuz I don't really connect like. Like on that level really. But if you are in that spot, you have to think about it more like this.

Like everyone needs some sort of mentor in their life, whether it's for business or like for anything, because it's just nice to be able to bounce ideas off. And I think one of the problems when I was just starting out was, it's like one, it's pretty lonely and like I'm a lone wolf anyway, so I don't care about that part.

But the fact of like when you're like sitting in your office like spinning your wheels and really not going anywhere and wondering it's because you don't even know what you don't. And so being able to [00:21:00] hire someone, like honestly having the opportunity to hire someone as a mentor and coach, like to get you out of whatever situation that you're in that you don't wanna be in anymore, that's really the only way to do it in my opinion.

And it's, and you have, it's an investment, right? Like you're investing in yourself, you're investing in your business. It's not an expense. The only expense that it is it's a business expense, which you're gonna give that money to the government anyway, so you might as well spend it on yourself.

And yeah. And Basically like finding a coach or a mentor that like you connect well with. It'll never be a waste of money because you'll always take something away from it, whether it's, even if you know whether it's whatever, you always take something positive away from it.

Danny: And I think it also comes down to, I think for some people the challenge is oh, I have to pay for this.

And because in our profession, like there's a lot of mentorship that's a part of the profession, right? So we have clinical mentors, that's part of our. That's part of our job is to make, help younger clinicians become better clinicians. But it's just just baked into the profession.

But [00:22:00] when we look at, for me I was just like, man like my business coaches that I've had, my, the masterminds that I've been in on paper, if somebody looks at it, if I sat down with my brother who, works for a big hospital and he's like your traditional W2 guy for life, He would be like, dude, that's why would you spend so much money on this?

It doesn't make any sense to him. Yeah. But what he doesn't understand is the people that I get a chance to work with are on such a different level that the opportunity cost for them that they have to give up to say, okay, I'm gonna do this instead, is actually a lot. Because if we just, like myself, Eve, Jared.

If we just independently focus on the shit that we have, like it, we can grow it significantly more than helping all these other people with their businesses. And the same thing with the people that I've worked with, the opportunity costs they're giving up to focus on helping somebody else with their business.

That gets baked into the cost of, what it costs to work with them. And the thing that I think people really neglect to think about is not necess. Skills. There's I need somebody to teach me outta marketing. You spend to sell. But it's the network effect of all [00:23:00] the people that you get to meet that are involved in that and everybody that they know and the expansion of that.

Happens quickly as you get involved with these different groups, and I'm sure you've seen it firsthand where it's all of a sudden you're like, dude, now you know, a hundred people across the country that you know, would jump on a call with you just cuz you're associated with the group, when in most cases if you just randomly reach out to them, they'd be like, no way.

But as soon as you're in that little gang, all of a sudden all these different things open up for you. And it's really almost like an unfair a.

William: Oh, for sure. Yeah. And yeah, that's true. And I have people reach out to me and Hey, can I pick your brain? I love Shante, the movie.

She's yeah, no, you can't pick my brain. Like one, I don't have time. I'd rather spend this time with my wife or my friends, or, whatever family. And two invest in yourself. It's actually hilarious because a lot of the people who are like, similar to us, were like, oh, insurance sucks.

Like you, you need to know your value. You need to know your worth and like why would you ever do something just cuz it's free for insurance. But then you have to flip it on yourself and be like, wait, I'm [00:24:00] doing the, literally I'm doing the same exact thing except on to. So like it's invest in yourself so that you can grow.

It's all about growth. If you're not, if you're not growing, you're dying.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like it never stops, man. Cuz the groups that I was in initially, Are and this happens in our group too, like we have more people, we have more successful people that are alumni of our group than most people even have in a business group.

They just we have people that are just killing it. And it's awesome to see them grow and like they've learned the skills they need, they move on and they're able to apply it and they're at certain stages. They have to go and be challenged by, bigger businesses challenged by businesses outside of our business.

And then, it's very natural for that to happen. But everybody that I know that. Is these other stages and it's really a game, right? I think like you, you figured that out at an early age. You're like, I'm gonna sling t-shirts. It's a game better than going and working like cutting grass or whatever, right?

Let everybody else go do that. You're doing something where it's more leveraged and you have more say over what happens. So you figure out this is a game early on. I, if the rules of the game, part of it is [00:25:00] your network equals your net worth, which is very accurate. That is not whoever, I don't know who said that, but legitimately your network, the people you know, the people that are willing to help you or introduce you to other people, is the number one thing that's gonna grow your net worth.

Hands down, it's not your hard skills. It's not how well you can do a Facebook ad. It's not how well you can manipulate somebody's neck. It's how well other people know you and are willing to do business with you or introduce you to other people that doesn't come from sitting in office by yourself. That comes from getting involved in other groups and the vast majority of those that are worth it, there's an entry, barrier to that.

So just getting over that I think for a lot of people is the hardest part. And then once they're in it, they're just like crap, what else can I learn? Who else can I get associated with? And it's almost turned into a problem where you have to reign 'em back in and be like, focus on one thing at a time.

And we've had people involved in three groups at once. We're like, dude, no. Pick one. Just one. And then you can move on to one after that. So you know, for you, I. Like you figured it out early and you've had a chance to get integrated and everything, with [00:26:00] the year that you that I guess it's been a little longer than that.

With the time you've had in the Mastermind with us, what do you feel has benefited you the most? I think for a lot of people, they take different things from it based on what they need, but what have you gotten the most out of? It's for

William: sure everything you just talked about.

The network because being on Like even just a Facebook group. I mean there's that

Danny: Facebook group is sick, dude. It's I don't even Facebook. It's so sick. Yeah. But it's like you could put something in there and just get so many validated responses or resources people are sharing in no time.

It's crazy.

William: Oh yeah. There's I think we have 90 posts like a month or something like that in there. And it's all from people who have. Maybe seven figure businesses and it's like our I'm listening to you. You obviously know what you're talking about. So like even implementing some of those things that like I'll just scroll through and read cuz I don't go on Facebook.

That's the only time I go on is Yeah. Into the mastermind. And so yeah, like just scrolling through that and being like, oh man, that seems like a good idea. Let's implement that. And the next thing there's a couple more granted in your business and you're like, that was cool. And. So that, and then the monthly calls [00:27:00] are awesome.

Brooke Miller is our like team leader. He's so cool. We have such a solid group. Our group is so sick. It's insane. I'm like, our call is this Friday and I'm pumped for it for two weeks beforehand. Just looking forward to it. And yeah, like they're just fired up all the time and by the time you leave you're like, all right, I have a thousand things that I can start implementing and now I'm gonna pick two of these and run with it and just keep on

Danny: going.

Yeah. Yeah. And the thing for me, I like selfishly I love getting together in person. I, like I look back to when we did the. The small event with you guys in, in in Atlanta. And, I thi I was bringing this up with somebody the other day. I was like, dude, I bought a $500 bottle of whiskey.

That was a highlight. Just to proof a point. I was proving a marketing point. I was like the long story short, underneath where we did this event, there was a liquor store and I was down there walking around, I forget, I was like looking for a present for somebody and I walked by and there was.

A bottle of whiskey called Chicken Cock that was [00:28:00] $500 and everything else around it was 50. And I stopped and I looked at it and I was like, I asked the person working there. I was like, is this a, like a, did you guys accidentally add a zero? It was a typo. And he is no, that's like a special whatever.

I don't know what he told me, but I just remember the price difference was so extreme that I, when I came back up I told the story. I was like, Hey, here's a good example of. Price and price psychology. And for me, I'm like, this must be the better than all the rest of 'em that are there.

So I bought it. I bought it. We all tried it at the event, and it was pretty good. My father-in-law actually drank a lot of that. The other night. I still had it in my house and he didn't know that I was like, don't touch that dude. That's like special occasions. He drank like a three quarters of the dang bottle drink, the whole dang thing almost.

And he didn't even realize he drank like $400 worth of whiskey. But stuff like that is so fun to be able to like, highlight that with with you guys and be around you guys and learn from you and you guys learn from us. And so I look forward to that. And I think people think about, in-person stuff, and maybe they almost dreaded a little bit because you're like national [00:29:00] conferences, you're about around a bunch of people that maybe aren't like you, but when you get a lot of the right people in the same spot, it is, it's like the craziest thing you can imagine.

It's so beneficial and there's so much forward momentum you make that I, it's like Christmas day for me when we get to do these events.

William: Oh yeah the live events are awesome and like back to the pricing and stuff. I love when people tell me that I'm expensive because I just look back at 'em.

I'm like I'm not cheap. That's the last thing that I am. But every one of my patients I think we just hit 200 people in my, in PT everywhere. So we've had 200 people and not one of 'em, by the end of it said that I was. They're like, man, that was worth every penny of it.

And it's yeah. Cool. Like I'm glad that like we were able to cross this barrier to get you in here, to get you back to everything that you love doing, with way less pain, also with some direction and a whole toolbox that you can have literally forever. Yeah. That's

Danny: true.

And like empowerment of skills. Like people don't think about that. Like you and also a generational family. Wealth or a health [00:30:00] change in terms of, okay, like you, you hurt your back. We gave you, we taught you how to hinge properly. We showed you how to actually improve whatever flexibility or strength or whatever.

And I, I do countless times I've had patients email me and be like, man, I help my cousin out. Or my coworker, they think I'm like super smart because I showed 'em these things that we went over and I'm like, that's awesome. You just paid it forward and like they learned something that'll benefit them and the people around them forever because they're willing to invest in the.

William: Oh, it's the best part. And also, I forgot, heard this, I think, I'm pretty sure it was Matthew McConaughey when he said, there, there's nothing wrong with filling your bank account and your soul's account at the same time. Do you find something that you're passionate about and you love?

It's Yeah, you like, you better charge for it and people are going to enjoy paying for it and cuz they get something out of it. And so yeah, it's all money's honestly doesn't even really exist anymore. The government just printed like 17 trillion and gave away for free.

So we basically have no value on it anyways anymore, so you might as well enjoy it.

Danny: It's this thing that people get hung up on, like they. [00:31:00] And a lot of it comes from where we come from. And again I'll go back this. That's true. The psychology of money book is really good because they look at it from all different angles.

And whether you come from a lot of money where you come from no money, whether you're middle class, but it's also what are your parents' experiences with it? What are their parents' experiences with it? And a lot has changed, since like for us, like our parents, grandparents, like the way that they looked at money and the things that were.

Truly scarce that many of them had, like my grandfather lived through the Great Depression, right? Like he was, it's it, he lived on a farm and I, he's man, we had food because we grew it. Like I, he was like, we were fishing, we were like eating, trout or whatever they caught.

And so we don't have true scarcity. We didn't grow up with that the way that they did, but our parents. Were affected by that because their parents were. And then I can trickle down to you in a number of different ways. So having a healthy relationship with money and being okay to charge what you're worth and understand that just cuz we like what we do and we're helping somebody get over something that's physically, stopping them from doing things that we would do for free anyway.

Doesn't mean we can, because we gotta pay for our own [00:32:00] things, but also, We're undervaluing something that's incredibly valuable for them for long periods of time as well as saving them a massive amount of time and the ability to actually solve a problem in a faster manner. Most people that we work with at least, in our practice, I'm sure same with yours, they value their time more than they do money. And I don't think that people really associate that quite the same until they have kids. They have a business they're time poor, and all of a sudden you solve a problem in half the amount of time.

It's not twice as valuable. It's 10 times more valuable.

William: Oh, totally. And it's actually weird, like a lot of my, a lot of my patients and clients, they own their own businesses for some I don't know, for some reason they just gravitated towards us. Yeah. And like they told their friends about it.

But a lot of the people that we see own their own businesses cuz they've, they know, they have the same exact mindset as us. They value their time over their money. And because you can always make more money, you can't make more. Yeah.

Danny: And when you own a business, it's the only thing, like it's the thing you can't get more of, but really anybody can't get more of it, but like [00:33:00] it's so scarce in their schedule and your schedule.

My schedule's the same way, right? If someone is faster, if someone is better, someone is more accurate, and it's less likely that I'm gonna waste my time on something. Like I will pay a lot more for that than I will for if I have to sit there and wait and see somebody that I don't think is very good at what they're doing.

I don't care if it's free. Like it doesn't matter. Oh yeah. It is not worth it.

William: Yeah. Yeah. And I don't really like free things anyways, cuz there's no value on. True.

Danny: Yeah. We saw this scene when I was in the army, right? I had a buddy of mine was in town this weekend and he's a physical therapist in the army.

He's getting out in January. And he, the, it's the same thing that happened with me that's happening to him. He's getting very frustrated. He's getting a lot of soldiers that are coming in that are essentially a hundred percent work comp, right? They're, they have really not that much of incentive to get better.

And I know it's not I think everybody thinks of everybody in the army is like a Pat Tillman, like Square Jaws, special forces or run through a wall kind of guy. That is a very small percentage of the actual [00:34:00] military. There's a lot of other jobs that are necessary as support roles and, for a lot of these folks, like maybe they don't want to be physically active, maybe they are dealing with an injury and they really don't like going back to some of the things they have to do.

They may not want to get better. And the last place you wanna be is questioning whether you're actually doing the right thing or not. Or am I a good clinician? Did I pick the right things? Am I doing the right things? Did I diagnose it correctly? When in actuality they just don't, maybe don't want to get better.

It's someone going through litigation. Like it may not be advantageous for them to do that. So that's a tough place to be if you're truly trying to help people. And I think one of the benefits for our type of practice is I've never questioned one time if somebody actually is wanting to get better.

Cause otherwise they wouldn't show up in my practice.

William: Oh yeah, a hundred percent. And I think that's one of the best parts too, is and I think why we get people better so much quicker than traditional models. Like we see people six to 10 visits and like they're.

Good to go. Obviously we have like our continuity programs that we push, but it's only because they like hanging out with us, not because they're hurting anymore. They like how we program things or [00:35:00] they like, whatever. They like coming down here and chatting and Sure.

So

Danny: there's value in that. Did you have a hard time with that? Because like I, I had a really hard time with people actually wanting to stick around and work with me and, so did you have to work through that a little bit and be like, oh, I can do more than just, fix a problem discharge because it's good for the business as well, but also, the relationships for a lot of these people are really helpful to have somebody quarterbacking their health and wellness.

Oh, totally.

William: Yeah. I, like I never really had a tough time with the money mindset, but I did have a tough time. Like getting people on continuity programs, because in my head I was like, wait, I know I need to be the best PT ever and I need to get 'em out as soon as possible. But then again I think I heard on one of your podcasts about okay, if you went to an ice cream shop and they were like, okay, yep.

You just had your 10th ice cream, like you can't come back here anymore. I'd be like, what the hell? No. I like your ice cream. I'm, I wanna come back. Yeah. So the fact that I felt. In that traditional PT model, again, it's get people better, discharge 'em, get people better, discharge them.

It's. Why can't we get people [00:36:00] better and then help 'em stay on like their performance goals. Not that they need it for continued tissue at like adapt adaptation, but just because they like some guidance and accountability with what they do. There's nothing wrong with that.

Danny: I think the other thing too that we undervalue is the, just the power of a relationship and trust. And how, and somebody. Independently, is seeking that. So I, the staff meeting the other day, my wife said something, I thought I was spot on and she goes, she was like, if my therapist could dry needle me while I talked to her about my, Dad or mom or whatever she's talking about.

She's it'd be amazing. Oh yeah. Oh, for sure. And I think we lose sight of the fact of we get a chance to build trust, build rapport with people and the dude, the convers I, the conversations that I would get into, people are into with people after I'd worked with them for a long time, and I'm sure you see the same thing, is it's not, we're not talking.

We're back. You're back, right? We're talking about, man, I'm having a hard time relating to my 16 year old right [00:37:00] now and we could barely say anything back. But for them to be able to have somebody that's actively listening is really rare. And to just be an independent sort of sounding board and maybe we just, give 'em our thoughts on whatever or make a referral to somebody that's necessary outside of our ecosystem, that is, gonna be the right person at the right time.

That's huge. As well as just the mental health side of going and talking to somebody that you like getting some stuff done to you that is preventative that they don't want to have, an injury that stops 'em from doing things again. There's so many people that are looking for that in our profession.

I think they look at maintenance, like maintenance is like this four letter word, right? It's like a bad word that you shouldn't say ever yet. People are independently coming back looking for it, and we're actively turning 'em away as a profession, primarily because it doesn't fit the insurance model. But when you're not in it, it's actually one of the best parts of it and it's one of the best options for recurring revenue within the business, which really stabilizes the business for things like growing or hiring or new space, whatever.

So I think those relationships, Oh

William: yeah, for sure. I think [00:38:00] relationships are key just in anything. That's like our biggest referral source is I think I've treated every gym owner in the South Bay as of now. Yes. At least the ones that I know. Yeah. And like those relationships are key.

It's oh man, like this guy helped me with my shoulder and now I can deadlifts with my. With my clients again, and with a gym that has 250 members, that goes a really long way, you

Danny: know? Oh, for sure. I totally agree. I'm interested, man, what's the vision for the movement shop?

What does this look like for you over the next three to five years, on the short term? What, what's a home run for you if you hit it? So

William: th three to five years, I'm, I definitely wanna have at least one other standalone space with maybe three, three other PTs in there. Like I was saying, I, I would like to be treating like 10 people a week, and there's really focusing on growing the business from I guess a normal growth standpoint.

I don't really want to grow really fast after I read this book, small Giants.

Danny: Oh, great. I love that book. Dude,

William: such a good book because before I was like, oh grow. And it was like hold on. Like maybe we can grow in other ways rather than like [00:39:00] in size. We can grow in value and yeah, or just be

Danny: the best, be world class like people are like, and that, that book, when talking about commitment to excellence and, not necessarily just grow, sell, right? I think as in most people are like, grow business, sell a business. What the fuck are you gonna do after you sell it? What if you really like it? Yeah. Like I have friends that have sold their businesses and are depressed afterward, and they're 50 million in the bank and they don't know what to do with their life.

Cause they've lost the thing that drives them to get better every day. I love the fact that you want to commit to, steady growth, but like excellence at the same.

William: Oh yeah. I love that thing. That actually reminded me of something that the Maro posted like a couple days ago about like the Mexican fisherman.

I dunno if you saw that. Yeah, I've heard of parable. Good man. Yeah, it's great. It's a long parable, so if you want to go see it, go check your page out. But it was like long. Long story short, it was this guy doing exactly what he loves and then someone came and said, Hey, grow this, and then you could do exactly what you love again.

It's okay. Yeah. He's

Danny: He's a yeah, he's a fisherman and the guys were retired. Guy comes in, he's oh, have you ever thought about like getting more boats? And then you can hire people and then,[00:40:00] you can sell that and retire and then you can spend time with your kids and go fishing on, at the beach.

And he is I'm doing that right now. He is I'm already. And so yeah, it's perspective it's a really good story. Yeah. Check out Shante's movement maestro page to see that one. Yeah.

William: And yeah, I guess my goal is somewhere in between those, right? Yeah. I always wanna be growing and creating more opportunities for other physical therapists that I can hire on in my company and have them treat that the way that they like.

Like just for example I treat specifically runners and CrossFit athletes. A little bit of golfers. Even though I suck at golf, I'm, I just am addicted to it. And but the PT I just hired, she was a professional ballerina and is a Pilates instructor. That's great. And she's a rockstar. She just like hits out of the park with all the, with that patient population.

She connects so well with them. And it, and I have no idea about any of that stuff. Literally nothing. I can't even dance at. That's how bad of a dancer I am,

Danny: oh man. Not even the journey comes on like at the very end. You're not just dancing at a wedding. Everybody can do that one. That's funny.

But I think to your point, it's great because, if you can take [00:41:00] people that are like ha are really wanna be amazing in a niche and you can support. The backend business side of something that's functional, that runs well, that's repeatable, it's very hard to do. And let them focus on be the person that people want from all around the city wanna drive to if they're, a ballerina or dancer or whatever, and like you get a chance to crush it with them.

And that's what a unique opportunity for them who, not everybody is like us, man. Not everybody wants to be a business owner. It's a crazy life. Like it's not for everybody, but if it's for you, there's no other life that's the right pick, right? Like for me there's, I just can't do anything differently.

But that's a small percentage of the population. People like who you're talking about who just hired do, they just wanna work with cool people that they like and they wanna use their skillset and they want to help them and they get so much personal gratification from it. And then we get a chance to support them and be a.

Them enjoying their life more and providing for their family and having less stress cuz they're doing things that they really like more. So I think there's a lot of, it's just, it's a noble cause in my opinion, to be able to support those people and grow to the point where you can, bring them on and actually support them.

So that's, it's cool you're doing that. [00:42:00]

William: No, it's awesome. And it's like such a unique opportunity to be able to do something like that too, and so if you are like someone like us who has that like entrepreneurial, like disease, then feels like it, it is right? Because like what you just said, you, like you just said, I think you said you like you can't do anything else.

Even if we'd wanted to, some way we would get pulled right back into this crazy world of entrepreneurism. And so if you are someone like that, then you should know, like the best person to invest in is yourself. Yeah. And I think that this is one of the best ways to do it, is by, hiring a mentor, hiring a coach, and especially somebody that you can connect so well with.

Like even going back to 2017, or it might even been 2016 when I heard that podcast the first time and I was like, holy shit. Like this is me. Like from that moment, I I knew I was getting up in the mastermind at some point. Should I have done it earlier? Yeah, for sure. But I know I'm stubborn and I like struggling, but like it's all about finding that person that you connect with and you're like, okay, like this is sick. This is what I want to do. And and this is the fastest path.

Danny: [00:43:00] That's so true and I think it's hard sometimes to find the right fit man. Because you can look for it and sometimes.

It takes a while to really, to find somebody that, clicks with you. And I'm not the right fit for many people. Our organization is the wrong fit for a lot of people. There's some element of, we, we have high expectations for people. We're fairly, I don't know, like the, like, when we make people work out, we don't make, we highly encourage people to work.

At our events, and it's not an easy workout either. It's no kind of hard and and you don't have to do it by any means, but we like people to challenge themself and we feel like being healthy, we're leading from the front and we need to be an example for that. So we, we incorporate that as part of like our live event.

And for some people that's enough for them to be like, totally wrong place for me. But for other people, they hear that and they're like, That's what I'm looking for. Like I want people around me that are going to force me to be better, not just in business, we'll ask people like, you told me you were gonna take your wife, [00:44:00] on a date twice this month.

Did you do it? On Boxer, I had somebody the other day, I was like, how'd that go? And the last thing you wanna do is be like I got busy doing this, or this, whatever. And so that sketches certain people out. They don't want anything to do with it, but for other people they're like, that's exactly what I need.

And so you just pull people in there, the right fit for you and you push people away that are not, and I think it's the same thing with our practices is exact same way. It's just depends how you put yourself.

William: Oh, totally. And yeah, and it is, I think that's the hardest part about running a business is keeping the balance for sure.

Yeah. And I know a lot of us in the Mastermind struggle with it still because as you grow, you have, you run into more problems that you have to solve. And then once you solve those, like Yeah, like I think at the last event, the, one of the things. It was awesome. It was so much fun.

And being able to go do the EEO three 5K with all those people who are just like you. Yeah. Like just grinding away and like loving what they do. But the thing that Kelly said that when he was talking to us was like, you don't even know the problems that you're gonna run into five years from now because you're not there yet.

But it's man, I can't wait for those because that means that you made it the [00:45:00] next level, true. Yeah. And having a community to do it with is,

Danny: It totally is. And Juliet, he did a great job talking her up. So she's gonna be, I'm so excited. I talked to her two days ago about what she's gonna go over for the for the live event.

So for the, those of you who are listening so we'll, we bring guest presenters in at our live event. Juliet Tourette will be our guest presenter this year. And dude, she's such a cool lady. Two time cancer survivor, multiple time world champion. Survived a Hippo attack partner in a law firm. Left at the, to just do a startup called Mobility Wad.

Because Kelly was running the gym at the time, was just YouTube videos. And it's just they're just like such unique people and she's such an operational ninja. To be able to set up a business. Cause I think the challenge is once you get to certain stages, You have to have operational efficiency.

You have to have the infrastructure that allows you to do what you're really good at and allows the company and the people and the assets in the company to support everybody else that are the producers, which are gonna be the clinicians in our type of businesses, right? So being super [00:46:00] organized and very efficient on that side allows everybody to do.

More of the right work and less of the tedious, redundant work that should be taken up by the operational efficiency of the business. So just things like that and being able to get exposed to stories that people have or little things and you take a little thing away, I think can make a huge difference.

But will, I know you're, I know you got a lot going on, dude. You're a busy man. You got a company to run. Let me do this, dude. Let me wrap up and let you tell everybody where they can learn more about you if they're if they're interested. And then we'll shut it down.

William: Yeah, totally. And I'm pumped for the mastermind, man. I finally made it with the big dogs. I'm in the alpha group this

Danny: time. Oh yeah, you made it. We had to rename the group from, we wanted to name it beta. The smaller group was beta, but they felt that was too derogatory, so we'd made it Bravo, which I do think is better.

Beta sounds much more inferior. Robert, they're just newer businesses, right? They just haven't been around quite as long and they don't have quite as as much revenue at that time. But that's great. Alpha group, that's a big big.

William: I know, man, I'm pumped. But yeah, we, I mean we have an Instagram, the movement shop, our website's, the movement shop.

If you wanna like [00:47:00] peek around in there and see how we run things yeah, that's the best way.

Danny: Cool. Awesome man. Will do. Thanks so much for your time today. We really appreciate it. And as always guys, thanks so much for watching and listening to the podcast and in the face of the group and we will catch you next time.

Hey, real quick before you go, I just wanna say thank you so much for listening to this podcast, and I would love it if you got involved in the conversation. So this is a one-way channel. I'd love to hear back from you. I'd love to get you into the group that we have formed on Facebook. Our PT Entrepreneurs Facebook group has about 4,000 clinicians in there that are literally changing the face of our.

Profession. I'd love for you to join the conversation, get connected with other clinicians all over the country. I do live trainings in there with Eve Gigi every single week, and we share resources that we don't share anywhere else outside of that group.

So if you're serious about being a PT entrepreneur, a clinical rainmaker, head to that group. Get signed up. Go to facebook.com/groups/ptentrepreneur, or go to Facebook and just search for PT Entrepreneur. And we're gonna be the only group that pops up under that.