E690 | Copywriting For Clinicians With Jeremy Dupont

In this episode of the podcast, Danny and Jeremy dive into the world of copywriting for physical therapy clinics. They discuss the importance of using words effectively to drive action and build rapport with your target audience. Many physical therapists already possess strong communication skills, and the key is to practice putting those skills into writing.

One of the first steps in effective copywriting is defining your ideal client avatar. By knowing exactly who you are speaking to, you can tailor your messaging to resonate with them. It's important to remember that you are writing for your patients, not for other clinicians.

Newsletters provide a great opportunity to practice your copywriting skills. Danny and Jeremy recommend following a 70/30 framework, where 70% of your content is engaging and informative, and 30% includes a call to action. Sharing stories from patient interactions can help connect with your audience on a deeper level.

Studying good examples of copywriting is also beneficial. By following newsletters and blogs that you enjoy reading yourself, you can learn from quality copy and incorporate those techniques into your writing.

Understanding your audience's psychographics is crucial. Tailoring your messaging to appeal to emotional or logical buyers can make a significant impact. Additionally, outsourcing copywriting can give you back valuable time, but it's important to provide oversight to ensure the content stays on brand.

Danny and Jeremy emphasize the importance of studying big brands like Nike, who invest heavily in just 50 words. By examining their ads, you can learn effective techniques that can be applied to your own copywriting.

Implementing a regular newsletter can help build your authority and drive consistent new patients through referrals over time. By consistently creating engaging content, you can establish yourself as a trusted expert in your field.

In conclusion, copywriting is a valuable skill that physical therapists already possess. By focusing on a conversational tone and understanding your ideal client, you can start creating engaging content that resonates with your target audience.

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] Hey, real quick, if you are serious about starting or growing your cash based practice, I want to formally invite you to go to Facebook and join our PT entrepreneurs Facebook group. This is a group of over 6, 000 providers all over the country, and it's a pretty amazing place to start to get involved in the conversation.

Hope to see you there soon. Hey, are you a physical therapist looking to leverage your skillset in a way that helps you create time and financial freedom for yourself and your family? If so, you're in the right spot. My name is Danny Matei and over the last 15 years, I've done pretty much everything you can in the profession.

I've been a staff PT. I've been an active duty military officer, physical therapist. I've started my own cash practice. I've sold that cash practice. And to date, my company physical therapy business helped over a thousand clinicians start growing scale, their own cash practices. So if this sounds like something you want to do, listen up, because I'm here to help you.

What's going on? Doc Danny here with the PT entrepreneur podcast. And I'm back again with. Jeremy DuPont, the one and only marketing ninja that helps us out in [00:01:00] PT biz with all things marketing for clinical practices. Uh, and today we get to nerd out a little bit, like not, not often do we get to talk about copywriting.

Most people don't know what copywriting is. Um, and we get a chance to share with you what I think is like one of the more valuable skills that I've ever learned. Uh, to, to be honest, like, I don't know if you feel the same way about copywriting. Yeah. A hundred

Jeremy: percent. I think it's the, like the number one thing that has helped me grow my business is getting good at copywriting.

So couldn't agree more.

Danny: Yeah. And, and before we, we'll dive into what this is and how you can get better at it and what, what, you know, how we like to look at copywriting. But if you are listening to this. On the podcast and you're not in the Facebook group yet. What are you doing? Why have you not joined yet?

It's so it's free. It's so easy and you can get involved in the conversation. The cool thing with the podcast, you can listen to this anywhere, but you can't really get involved in a con a conversation in any way. So head over to Facebook, look up PT entrepreneurs. We're the only one, we have about 7, 000, uh, members [00:02:00] in this group.

And it's all clinicians that are, you know, trying to grow businesses. Um, either from just starting or, you know, scaling past a million dollar practice, uh, and we try to share. Relevant information on a weekly basis will bring people on like Jeremy or are the business partners and PT biz and share what's working now and, and what we think can really help you out.

So if you're listening to this on the, on the podcast, If you're listening on Facebook. Thanks so much. Don't forget we're live on this sucker. We are not AI. We're real people. We'll answer your question. If you have a question about copywriting, type it in the, uh, in the comments and we'll answer them, uh, as we go.

Uh, but let's start off by doing this. I kind of have a definition of what I think copywriting is. How would you define copywriting? If you had to say. Yeah, I think

Jeremy: it's, you know, I think it's easy to just say, like, copywriting is the way that you write and you, you know, you're able to put together, um, you know, words to get a message across, you know, I think, you know, I think there's a deeper meeting to that of, you know, [00:03:00] copywriting, like a copywriter's job is to, like, know what people are actually looking for, and to get that across in a way that, People resonate with as well.

Um, so it's, it's much more than just, you know, writing. It's, there's, there's a whole, there's a whole, like, you know. There's a whole way that you can look at copywriting, especially good copywriting. It's, you know, figuring out how to get a message across for something, a product that people actually want and to take, take action on it.

I think that's, you know, it's easy to just say copywriting is just writing

Danny: words much, much more than that. Yeah. I think of it as learning how to use words to drive action and build rapport and, or I guess you could say it depends on what the intent of. Your, your messages, you know, because there might be copywriting that is more content based where you're educating, uh, and for many of us, that's actually very natural.

We educate people all the time and being able to, you know, write that out, whether [00:04:00] that's someone's first, you know, visit email where you are writing out, you know, is going on with their body, what they're going to tell their spouse when they get home. And that's a form of copywriting. That's a very. Clear way of explaining a complex, you know, injury or whatever's going on with that person to where they know what's going on.

They know what the next steps are, and you're, you're framing things in a way where it allows them to feel comfortable with what's going to happen as well as to explain that to their significant other, if they have one at home. So that's an example of it. It could be an ad, it could be a email, it could be a blog post, it could be lots of things.

The thing is, you know, right now we're. Uh, communicating with words, so there's, there's nuances to that. If you're watching this on the live stream, not only do you see what we're saying, you, you can see how we're saying it. I talk a lot with my hands. You know, I don't know why. It's just the way it works.

Uh, you know, people, some people are more animated than others. Some people's body language. Uh, [00:05:00] sometimes it's, it's a mismatch with what they're saying, right? So like if I'm sitting here with my arms crossed and I'm kind of like not making eye contact with you and, and, but yet I'm saying something where I'm really excited about it.

Like it doesn't really, something's off. Right. But with copywriting, we take those things out. The human, the human mind doesn't see that. They don't see how you're moving. They don't, they don't hear the tonality changes in your voice. You know, like these are really important things. I taught this lesson to my son the other day, because I was trying to tell him, I was like, Jack, It's very important for you to understand how you say something is just as important as what you say.

And he's like, I don't understand what you're talking about. And I said, all right, dude, I'm gonna say your name three different ways. And you tell me what the difference is. And I said, Jack, Jack, Jack. And he was like, whoa, the last one, don't do that again. Like he scared me. And it's the same word, three different tones that mean three very different things.

I'm excited to see you. I don't know where you are. And you're in trouble, dude, because you screwed up somehow, right? So, like, [00:06:00] that's something in copywriting people don't get. So you have to be very intentional about the words you use because they're the only thing you have. We have nothing left. That's why it can be so hard oftentimes for people to understand what to write.

And if you're sitting there and you're like, well, where does this apply? Well, let me, let me put it to you this way. Have you ever tried to write a newsletter for your clinic and just sat there with a blank screen and literally had no idea what to type? Like that's happened to me. Many times, especially early on, right?

So this is where it applies within your practice, because this is how we communicate to people via email and social media, uh, and on blog posts in particular for content marketing. So where would you say? In, in your entrepreneurial journey, right. As you're starting to grow in your practice, like where did you really realize, damn, I need to learn this because I have no idea what I'm doing, but it's obviously important.

Yeah. I think

Jeremy: like I started a weekly newsletter as soon as [00:07:00] COVID happened, basically like, you know, the day everything shut down, I was like, well, I'm out of a job and. And I better figure out how to, like, continue nurturing, you know, I was lucky. I had kind of already started, like, you know, I have, like, some online stuff going on, but, you know, as soon as it happened, I was like, this is the only way that I can actually reach people.

So I better start sending this weekly newsletter. Um, and, you know, I just committed to that because that's, you know, how I was going to make money basically, um, once COVID happened. So I really committed to that weekly newsletter and it's funny, like I've gone back to those original newsletters and even like since starting Ripple in the first.

Ones that I put together, um, and even, you know, I'm doing a weekly newsletter for patch now. And, um, you know, I look at every week, that's just a rep for me basically of like, you know, they're, they're getting better every week and I'm going to look, you know, the one that I sent out this week, I'll look at it in three years from now and be like, wow, that was awful.

Like I've like, I've gotten so much better at [00:08:00] copywriting. Um, and so, so yeah, I think. You know, that's helped me hone the skill for sure. Um, but it's also where, like, I've seen the biggest, you know, uptick in business metrics as well of, like, just putting together that weekly newsletter. For me, I've had so many people, again, since we, you know, even started Ripple's newsletter three years ago, um.

I have so many people that maybe they don't take action on that email, but it's like, Hey, that resonated with me. I love your newsletters. I read them every week. Uh, people were like, really actually like that. And it's because of, you know, the time and effort I've put into that copy side of things. And whenever they're ready to actually take action or my for, for ripple to come in for PT, I'm top of mind because I've sent out that weekly newsletter out.

And, you know, I've gotten pretty good at copy and that's one of the biggest reasons why is just, you know, I've done it for a week for the last four years, basically.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think even if we, let's just say we [00:09:00] just, you know, frame this around the weekly newsletter, like we know everyone should be doing it.

Um, but very few people actually do it. And it's not because I don't think they see value in it. It's that I don't think they know what to write. And they, they don't know what to do. Uh, you know, and even, even with frameworks and things like that, it's, it's still hard for people because I think it's challenging for them to come up with, but what am I going to say, you know, and I've written a, a weekly, uh, email, at least one for years, you know, going on, I guess, six years now.

And that doesn't include our. Clinic newsletter, right? So lots of writing and lots of, um, copy it, it, it allows you to develop that skill much, much quicker, but it is very hard to learn because it's very tedious and it's slow to begin with. But if we look at just a newsletter, for instance, the benefit to your practice is substantial, like you said, right?

If you can, um. If you can be in somebody's [00:10:00] inbox every week and they know what day you're sending a newsletter out and that there's going to be relevant information, they're going to learn something from not just learn something, but if they can learn something, it's like educational. And you can have some amount of like enjoyment of them reading it, like entertainment, I guess, without coming across as like a comedian.

Uh, unless you're very funny, then go for it. But like, I think that if you can get those two things, then all of a sudden they're just going to look forward to opening your. You know, your email, and that's a pretty rare thing because everyone is inundated, absolutely inundated with, uh, emails. Like if you look at your inbox, it's just crazy, probably.

Right. So, you know, for us, I think this is a good place where you can start, uh, where you can really. Develop a newsletter and you can start to use that as a place to be able to develop your copywriting. It looks like Jeremy has frozen on me. So I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to finish this sucker out until he comes back.

So when we look at copywriting, [00:11:00] I'm going to move on to sort of like, what does this look like? And how do I define that? Oh, there you are. I just was, uh, was going into what copywriting should be. Um, and, and when I think of it, I think of it as words that drive sales, conversions. And in particular, if you can do that and have a positive experience or a positive, uh, reference of, uh, of that engagement with that person, with your target audience.

That's killer. That's killer. So like when we write a newsletter, if somebody can read that and be like, Oh man, that was a great story about that runner that got back to running a half marathon, even though they're not a runner, like it's a positive thing that they get to read. You know, maybe there's a blog post or a video or something like that that goes along with it.

Uh, so stories are, are huge with that, right? So if we take newsletters in particular, I know, you know, you write a lot of newsletters, not just for, you know, your practice, but in patch, you guys are writing a lot of copy, right? You just. Every day. Uh, what would you say, you know, from a framework standpoint, might be able to help [00:12:00] people actually figure out what should I be putting in this newsletter?

Jeremy: Yeah, so I look at it a couple of different ways. And I think, you know, even to what you're talking about before that of, you know, I, I talk with so many clinic owners that, like you said, they just sit there and they're like, I have no idea what to write. And they just look at a blank canvas basically. And, you know, the mice, you know, my advice to them is.

Just talk about what's going on right now. Um, and I think you and I have even talked about this on, on one of the podcasts, but it's, you know, whatever's relevant for what's going on now, you know, where it's winter in Boston, maybe you can talk about the super bowl, something that happened at the clinic, like whatever, whatever's going on, whatever's relevant right now, just write about that.

And I think, you know, I think what happens with us and I even like kind of reflect back on, you know, my, like. Or even, like, just, like, how people are taught to write these days, too, and even, like, in school, I remember, like, I was a, I was, like, a, a C student in, in English class back in high school, but it was [00:13:00] because, like, I was much more creative on the, the writing side of things versus, like, how we're taught to write is very methodical, and nouns, and verbs, and you say adjective here, and it's not like, it's not conversational.

So I always, I always tell people like, you know, just write how you talk, start there and just, you know, don't, uh, don't feel like you have to go to the thesaurus to figure out like, this word is too simple. I need to figure something else out. Um, so I think that's, that's the first, like, you know, even just talking framework wise of, you know, just, just kind of like, you know, right as you talk, that's going to make.

Putting something on paper a lot easier. Um, and then I always look at like, uh, newsletter. And even if you're trying to market something, um, that that email that goes out that blog post, you're putting together 70 percent of it should be. Interesting. Um, and then 30 percent of it should be more of like that sale side of things.

So that first 70 percent should [00:14:00] be telling a story or talking about what's going on right now. And that should be really casual, fun, engaging for the for the reader to really kind of dive in. And then that gets them to that 30 percent sales called the action side of that. Um, and that's how you get people locked in.

Because if you hit them right off the bat with, um, Hey, we're running 50 percent off an evaluation at the top of that email. Uh, that's not going to work. They're going to exit right out of that. And we're like, we're not an e com store. Like we can't just send out a, you know, a 20 percent off coupon. Uh, we've got to engage people a little bit more.

So that's how I look at, you know, just setting up, uh, an email there. And, you know, I think the biggest thing that we can start to think about is, you know, the, the, the email that we're putting together. Or even blog posts or whatever it is. It's not about us. It's about the reader. So it's like, how are we solving problems for the reader?

And how do we highlight them? And how do we make them feel like when they're reading this? It's like, man, this is [00:15:00] wrote exactly for me. Like, how did Jeremy know? Like, this feels like this should be for me. So I think those are like the three biggest things that kind of people can can lean into and just help them get some

Danny: stuff out there.

Yeah, I, you know, you hit the nail on the head, like I've gotten people that have emailed me back and just reply to like, basically a, a newsletter, you know, and the, the response is basically like, get out of my head, Danny, like, you know, what are you doing in there? And it's because if you can speak to, if you can speak to your audience on a level that is.

Basically on a level that they're thinking, you know, especially when it comes to a problem that maybe they're struggling with. And in order to do that, you have to be able to do a couple of things. Number one, you have to have a very strong understanding of it from either having helped a lot of people get through that or having gone through it yourself.

And, and then to be able to create solutions to problems, you have to have a depth of understanding how to do that as well. And, you know, but you have to build trust first. So building trust in a lot of ways is being able to [00:16:00] being able to articulate. The concerns and the problems are going through better than they can even do themself.

And if you can do that, then you, you basically become the solution to the problem as well. And this is where it becomes very interesting for us with patients, because you may not even know you're, you're capable of doing this. You may have no idea that you're like, you could probably be pretty good at writing a, you know, weekly newsletter.

If you really just thought about how do you talk to your patients? You know, like that's basically how I would write a newsletter. And there's, there are multiple variations of doing this. Some people really like to have like more of a, I would call it like a recycled content approach. So they might have a, a blog post or a video that they found that week that they thought was interesting for their target population.

Um, they may have their own blog posts that they want to redirect somebody to. And then maybe they have like. I don't know, like something they found just entertaining. So they may have three things that relate to their audience somehow, but they may not have created all of it. And they're sort of recycling it.

That can [00:17:00] actually be a really efficient way to put out a weekly blog post, um, that still gets in front of people. Uh, but the second variation would be what we consider a. Uh, a story lesson call to action framework. So this is what you were referencing where it's like the first 70 percent should be whatever.

Right. So, and this is where I actually think clinicians can crush it because you're talking to people all day and then all you have to do is just tell a story about an interaction you had during that week that was something you learned something from, and this happened every day to me. I would learn something from a patient every single day, and then I would just.

Not use their name. Like, obviously don't just be like, well, Jimmy said this today in the office. You can't do that, but you can bring that up, bring up the story and then it's the lesson you learned from it. And then the call to action, right. And the call to action probably is going to be, you know, get on a call with our team or come in for a discovery visit or whatever it is, or, you know, opt into this piece of content you have.

It has to just sort of weave into this, the, the lesson, some capacity and making a segue, I actually feel like making a [00:18:00] segue from the story, uh, to the. Lesson is very easy from the lesson to the call to action is where it can get a bit tricky. So that's the two variations that I think people typically use.

Which one, which one do you see more success with now on the patch side? Now that you guys have so many, you know, clinics that you're working with, what do you see the most success with if somebody, you know, could do one? Yeah, it's, I mean, it's

Jeremy: hands down. It's the storytelling framework, those newsletters, those convert, um, you know, especially when we're putting together like a, like a marketing campaign.

So, 5 or 6 emails together, like, trying to sell 1 product, for example, like, we're putting together like a CrossFit open 1 for the end of this month, you know, the first few emails that are going out talk about, like, you know, again, we're trying to get the reader to read the email that we're sending and be like.

You know what, I am trying to prep for workout number one. I probably do need to get in for a little mobility session and, you know, if we can tell a [00:19:00] story about that. We talk about like, you know, uh, there's like different parts I think to like good storytelling and good copywriting. It's, you know, how do we solve the problem that they're dealing with now?

That's a, it's a very easy one. But also like what is their aspirational identity is something that I talk about a lot. And like, you know, that person that's prepping for the CrossFit Open right now. Their aspirational identity isn't like getting to the finals or, you know, but they're trying to score as high as they can or beat their gym twin or whatever it might be.

So how do we talk about that? And how do we say, like, you know, the gray area between where you're at now and what your aspirational identity is, is us. And if we can get that out there in a story framework. Those crush like those do very, very well versus like, you know, I think these, these, there's a place for these of like highlighting an Instagram post about, you know, here's all the tips that you can do to, you know, help with workout number one of the open.

Um, you know, [00:20:00] I think those are awesome too. Like you're getting content out there that's helpful. It's educational. A good copywriter can take that, turn it into a story, you know, show them what their aspirational identity is and how they can get there. Um, and if you can do that successfully, it works super well.

Danny: Yeah, yeah, and it's, and what's interesting about the, uh, the story framework is, I, I think it, people are kind of naturally, they know what to say, but to your point in school, you know, you learn, uh, all of the actual like nuts and bolts of the English language. And, uh, there, there is, there's something to be said for that.

Like, there's some interesting study I saw that was referenced where it said, um. Women are 81 percent less likely to buy and men 77 percent less likely to buy if there are words misspelled or significant grammar, uh, mistakes. And I can see that, right? Because that's just like, [00:21:00] Hey, by the way, use Grammarly, you know, or something that just, you know, fixes that in real time.

And even if it's like minor stuff, like I think people are. Okay with it, but if it's just like significant, you know, issues with your grammar or with spelling It's it's it's just a sign of that. You're just didn't even look at it pretty much or proofread it But I wouldn't get too concerned with that because that's what people I think really worry about.

Oh, I'm missing a comma It's like no, that's not that's not really that big of a deal What you have to think about is you know What you're trying to get across is basically the same thing you'd have if you had a conversation with a patient You know, and, uh, everyone can do that. We do that every day. So instead of, um, writing it out in a proper manner, if that's what you think you need to do, you need to write it out as if you're talking to a patient.

Or talking to a friend, like, that's the easiest way for me to explain this. And I get this feedback on my book too. Like I have people that [00:22:00] will reach out to me about the book and they're like, man, that was easy to digest. That was very helpful. It was very, it's just packed with a lot of just things to do to start grow a practice like.

I've never written a book besides that. I don't know what to do. And all I'd done, all I had done to that point was write copy in a conversation, conversational tone. And I'm sure if somebody that was an English professor got ahold of my book, they would like pass out because of how just. Terrible it is.

But to the average person reading it, it's like, oh, this makes a lot of sense. Because it's like you're having a conversation with somebody. And I think you're far better off doing that unless you're trying to write a classic novel, uh, than anything else, which most of us are probably not gonna do. Um, the number one thing though, that I would say, and this is what we can circle back around to, I'd love to know you're.

Your thoughts are on this is defining your avatar, like who you're speaking to. So how do you like to go about clarifying and be, you know, being very direct about who it is that you're trying to communicate with to make sure you're not off.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think it's super important [00:23:00] and that's something I took really seriously with Ripple as well.

Like, we're in downtown Boston and we kind of had, we had like two very specific but very different avatars. Um, so that was the, you know, I called, they were like our bio personas is, is more so what I, what I, uh, Um, describe them as and we had those people like segmented out inside of our CRM system as well.

So, like, these people got different messaging, something that I work through, you know, you talk about copywriting, right? It's like, we work through this with my staff members as well, like, how they communicate with these different types of people as well. Um, so, like, you know, for example, for Ripple, R2, avatars that we have, one that we call Corporate Carl, who is like the, you know, finance guy, type A personality, likes to, you know, just come in, get things done, um, and, you know, really likes like the high level conversations about, you [00:24:00] know, what exactly this joint mob is doing, and, you know, they like.

You to send them scholarly articles afterwards and really dive into what exactly is going on. This is how they're, how they're wired. Um, and they don't care about price points. They care about saving time. They care about getting this thing fixed. Um, so all of our copy and all of our messaging is based on all of these features and benefits that we talked about for that specific person versus, you know, our other avatar, which we called, um, SoulCycle Susie, who is more of like this.

35 year old, younger person living in Boston. They care a ton about their health and wellness. They have no idea what their insurance is. They don't even want to step inside of an insurance. Like, they don't want to go to Mass General Hospital for PT. They want to go to the easy option, um, so that they continue doing their, you know, this, this person is like super health conscious.

This is kind of like a secondary avatar that started to, to come up for [00:25:00] us. But if we talk to that person the same way that I did with, You know, our, you know, a little bit older demographic, it just wouldn't have worked. So we started segmenting those out and, um, you know, I would send specific, you know, most of my newsletters went to everybody, but once or twice a month I would send specific ones to those avatars there just to talk about, again, kind of what's going on in Boston and, you know, how we can help them with whatever's going on there.

So I think defining who you're messaging is going to. It's one of the biggest things that you can do for copywriting.

Danny: Hey, sorry to interrupt the podcast, but I have a huge favor to ask of you. If you are a longtime listener or a new listener and you're finding value in this podcast, please head over to iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to the podcast and please leave a rating and review.

This is actually. It's very helpful for us to get this podcast in front of more clinicians and really help them develop time and financial freedom. So if you would do that, I would greatly appreciate it. Now back to the podcast.[00:26:00]

That's a good point. And segmentation is a bit more of an advanced technique. So if you're listening to this and you're like, Oh man, Jeremy says I got to segment this because you're right. You might have. Multiple avatars, you know, like we really had three, uh, because we had a lot of, uh, I would say active adults.

Uh, we had a lot of youth athletes, um, and then we had, we had a lot of runners just like legitimately, like that was their, that was their thing, right? So tons of runners, so you could break that up into three different groups, but I would say. You know, for us, the, the client avatar that made the most sense really was like the one that, that we would try to speak to the most was, uh, more of the active adult, um, you know, category and, uh, you know, our, our guy's name was Greg.

And, you know, for us, and this is where you have to get, it's very important to name them, like, this is, this is a, this is a very important. Uh, exercise to go through and think of this as like, I, you think of it as, okay, [00:27:00] if I get more of these people in my practice, who would I want and then define that person and define them to, to, to detail a level that is, um, you know, is, is, is pretty, pretty narrow.

Like, you know, Greg for us is a, it's a 50 year old male. He's married. He's got two kids. Uh, you know, he, he coaches their basketball team. Uh, he's an attorney, so he works a lot of hours. He's very time sensitive. So very similar to your, like, you know, uh, what was the name of the first one you had? Carl. Carl.

Carl. And he was like finance Carl or something like that? Corporate Carl. Yeah. Corporate Carl. Okay. So yeah, similar, similar to that. Uh, and you know, he, he values, he values high quality. Uh, he values time efficiency and communication. Uh, and the thing about Greg that is interesting is he gets together with his friends a couple times a year.

And every time he gets together with him, he sees his friends becoming more and more unhealthy and he doesn't want to be like that. Like, and [00:28:00] that right there. Like that last little part, if you're thinking about communicating value to people, and if you put this in an email, put this in a newsletter and some, it has to be natural.

It can't be like you get together with your friends and see them all, you know, being unable to do physical things that they, you know, want to do. And you don't want to be like that. If so, like reach out to us like that right there. There's so many people that are thinking this and it's for me, it's this top of mind too, because I've been, I've been training with a buddy of mine and that he expresses all the time.

He's like, man. Everybody around me is starting to have to say no to their kids, asking them to play ultimate frisbee with them or, you know, to play basketball or, uh, you know, whatever, go on this hike that maybe they can't, they're not trained for. And he's like, dude, I just don't want to say no to the people that I want to spend time with and the activities that I want to be able to enjoy.

And. If you can speak on those levels like that, that is a very common thought for a lot of people. Um, and it's a [00:29:00] strong motivator for people to go get shit done. It takes up their time, takes up money, but more importantly, maybe it's not so bad that they. You know, have to go get something addressed. Let's wait until that point.

This is where you can start to get people across the line before it's like literally they can't walk, you know, or something like that, or their, their leg is so, you know, their knee is so swollen they can't take it anymore. And speaking to the pain points they have and the internal dialogue that they have with themselves, and everybody has this.

We all have this little constant Little asshole in our head. That's just saying shit all day, you know, but what we're worried about or this or that it's a matter where you listen to it or not, but if we can speak to that little jerk in everybody's head about what's going on. And how we can help, you know, at least physically and, and help with them being able to move the way that they want, you're going to get a lot of people there and come in and work with you.

And not only that, but you're also pre framing the right people to come in and the wrong people [00:30:00] to not come in. And like, that's just as important because you want to get the right people in and you want to resonate with them. I say the biggest mistake that I ever made from a copywriting standpoint, and I don't know if you ever did this as well, is I would write blog posts and I would write them mainly, uh, through the lens of a clinician speaking to another clinician, not knowing.

And cause that would be like referencing articles and higher level stuff. And what I started noticing was all I was getting was clinicians that would leave comments on our blog posts. And I was like, Oh, I'm killing it. This is great. And get a, didn't get a damn patient from it. One. And I, and I, it took me probably six months to realize what I was doing, uh, before I started changing the direction that I was, you know, that I was writing to really focus more on patients.

How I'm speaking to patients versus clinicians. Could we speak to each other very differently? Then how we're going to speak to somebody that is not a clinician, right? So I don't know if you had to learn that the hard way as well.

Jeremy: Yeah. I think like the way I look at that is like writing, um, like features versus [00:31:00] benefits, basically like a feature, a feature of, you know, like a, a highly skilled PT.

Um, that's going to resonate with other PTs is like, Oh, yeah, I'm OCS and I'm CSCS and I've got the IDN dry needling and FAM memo, whatever all those letters are like those I look at as as features, right? And that that plays super well with the other PTs. You have some authority there. But like that doesn't matter for the average reader like they don't, they don't really care about that stuff.

What they do care about, though, is like that OCS. If you can talk about the benefit of you having that OCS and, you know, this OCS means that, you know, I'm the highest trained PT to deal with your complex injuries. This is why you should work with me or like, you know, CSCS. That's a feature. But the benefit of having CSCS is.

Hey, not only do I have my DPT, but I can also help you reach your strength and conditioning goals as well. Um, so if you can communicate those things differently, I think that's where a lot of [00:32:00] copywriting goes wrong is they lean into that and again, talk about more of the feature of what they can do for people versus.

The benefit again, how they're going to get to that aspirational identity, how they're going to actually solve the problem. That's what people are looking for. That's what they want to read. Um, and you know, I think for the most part, most people lean into just the feature side of thing and don't talk enough about the benefits.

But like you said, like we're having these conversations with people every single day. So if you can just take a kind of a step back and talk, think about like, you know, when you're in clinic day to day in a session and you're talking about. Getting somebody back to, um, you know, what they want to be doing.

That's a benefit. That's what you should be talking about. Um, and if you can nail that and that's going to make copywriting way easier for you.

Danny: Yeah. And I would say there's two buckets to break, to break this up into, if you're really thinking about there's like features and benefits. And I like to think of it as emotional versus logical because there [00:33:00] there's, this is where we get into like the psychographics of the personality types of people.

And if you're now we're kind of really. Delving more into, uh, deeper marketing and sales, where if you really, and I started noticing this in the clinic when I really started to focus on this. I started to see my, I mean, my sales percent is just like skyrocketed to the point where the only time somebody didn't buy packages, if I didn't want them to buy a package, if I was like, Hey, I didn't want to work with them for that long, or they just had something very acute other than that.

I'm like a hundred percent, because if you can understand, like for instance, uh, let's say I have somebody that comes in. And that person is more of like, um, I don't know, like a service position. Maybe they're another clinician of some sort. Uh, maybe they are more, uh, like creative, like, uh, a, in videography, or they are, maybe they're a teacher, uh, somebody that's going to be more like empathic and, and, um, [00:34:00] emotionally, you know, sort of, uh, driven that kind of person I'm going to talk to about more emotionally driven topics of what's bringing them in.

And not just to make a sale. I think this is what people have to keep in mind is a sale is a transference of trust. If someone gives you their credit card, it's because they trust you're going to help them get what they want. So if you can tap into, okay, this person is more of an emotional buyer. I'm going to talk more about, you know, them being able to get back to, uh, getting their, their, you know, kids out of their crib without hurting their back and things like that.

Right. Versus let's say I have somebody comes in as an engineer or an accountant or a lawyer, and they're more like logically driven. I'm going to talk to them more about the, uh, the, the benefits of what we do, the specialty that we have, the speed at which we can help them get an outcome. Uh, the, you know, like, like the actual, like science of it a bit more kind of, you're talking about what people want to get like articles about what's going on.

So when you have that conversation, if you can lean more into more of a logical, uh, approach, Hey, we'll save you. [00:35:00] X amount of time in comparison of going somewhere else or, uh, you know, why would you want to go work with like three people at once when, you know, we can work with you one on one and like, that's more of a, Oh, that makes sense logically.

But if you can tie that in with the psychographic of a person that is more of a logical decision maker. The challenge is you have to figure this out all while you're diagnosing their initial evaluation, you know, injury. And for the, for a novice clinician, that's a very hard thing to do because they're basically just trying to figure out what the hell is going on versus if you've seen a lot of people and you have a few years under your belt and a lot of, you know, good mentorship and training and things like that, when all of a sudden you can start to say to yourself, all right, well.

How's this person going to be best motivated, not just to make a sale, but also to be compliant. Because if I can tap into that, now I get the best of both worlds. They're going to, it's going to be good for my business, but it's also going to be a better outcome, you know, for them. So you can apply the same thing with how you write.

So you can mix in a combination of emotional. And logical, right? So it's like emotional. Yeah. Oh, I helped this person. She couldn't, [00:36:00] uh, you know, pick up a, you know, 10 pound kettlebell off the ground and she wanted to run a half marathon again. And she just did it. And she, you know, uh, PR her half marathon, whatever.

That's an emotional conquering something for somebody versus. Everybody on our staff has an OCS. What does that mean? Well, here's what that means. X percent of clinicians in the, in the country have this. Everyone in our, uh, clinic has this designation. Here's why that's important to you because, you know, if you look for the best in the area, we're definitely it.

Uh, you know, we highly regard, you know, us, uh, education as being a core tenant of what we do. That's logical. So you can mix those in. Emotional is typically going to be a little bit better. Logical is going to clean up all those people that are the engineers. Right. So like, as we look at those two things, this is where you can start to layer this on and be a little bit more, uh, sophisticated, I guess.

And maybe this is a bit over people's heads in terms of like, I'm just trying to write a newsletter, bro. Okay, cool. Start with that. Just try to be like consistent on a weekly [00:37:00] basis and just try to write some stories that you're, you know, having conversations with people. Then you can start to, you'll start to peel layers back and be like, Oh, this is what Danny's talking about, about this person.

Not everybody's an engineer, by the way, is going to be logical. A lot of them are. And, you know, but like talk to them differently than you talk to somebody. This may be more of an emotionally driven buyer and you're going to start to notice, wow, this is working better because I am segmenting my conversations now, not just in an email, but also in person.

Yeah, I

Jeremy: think just the most important thing to think about and you know why I put so much care into copywriting just in general, um, is like, I do think it's, you know, I think it's one of the most important things if you're trying to grow a business, but you're not a good copywriter. I think it's gonna be really hard, um, or something that you'll have to learn.

to like outsource, um, because like the, the crux of being a copywriter means that you can communicate well, um, and you can get your point across well. Um, so I do think, especially in the marketing world and like [00:38:00] that arm of your business, you have to be able to, um, be, be a good copywriter. And I think like, again, Physical therapists are one of the best communicators out there.

They do such a good job in person about it. Um, so that's, it's in there, right? It's just how do we get that, um, you know, in, in just word form and, you know, out in emails and blogs and things like that. So, um, you know, I think just in general, this is probably if you're looking to grow a business. This is one of the biggest things that

Danny: you can do, dude.

And back to your, your point about, you know, the, the clinical, like clinicians being some of the best communicators. I, that is such an accurate statement. And I don't even think if you're listening to this, you don't even realize how valuable your skillset is. Not, not just within our own industry, but outside of our industry, because I can tell you, you know, I've talked, I've talked to, uh, you know, different business owners in outside of the physical therapy world that.

Go out of their way to try to find [00:39:00] clinicians in particular for customer success roles, where you are actively, literally, like you're listening to people, you're helping solve problems and you're helping get them an outcome that they want. It's no different than what we're doing with the human body.

It's the same damn thing. Like it's the exact same thing. Not only that, but like, if you look at like transferability over to like a sales position, for God's sakes, like we are the, some of the best listeners on the planet, we're listening, we're documenting the subjective is. That is, that is our bread and butter.

You should be getting more out of your subjective than anything else. I don't care what anybody says. I'll, I will, I'll take, if I can only do subjective. Over an objective, I have to pick one of the two. I take subjective all day. Like I want to have a conversation with somebody. I want to listen to what's going on.

I'm gonna listen for keywords. I want them to know I'm paying attention to them. And then I want to be able to like regurgitate their words back to them to make sure that I'm saying the right thing in their own terms of what they're trying to achieve. Like that's so damn valuable in any industry, any industry.

So if you don't think that. Like there is a skill set there already that you can then leverage in a different way. Like you just, you're just looking [00:40:00] at how you're not reframing it correctly. I mean, the other thing is too, you may not have the time to do it. Maybe you have a clinic that is, you're time poor.

You're super busy. You're seeing a full schedule. Okay. I totally get that. Right. Um, But it does, it does still need to happen on an ongoing basis. So whether you find time for it or you outsources, and this is something that, you know, for, for your standpoint, Jeremy, like with patch, when people are outsourcing marketing, I feel like that can feel like a sensitive thing.

I know for me, whenever I've used outsourced outside marketing agencies, I've always felt like a bit vulnerable about. I don't want them to screw up my, uh, you know, my, my brand reputation that I'd worked so hard to build. So like, how do you go about being able to write copy for other people, but do it in a way that is still genuine to their business?

Yeah, I think a lot

Jeremy: of it is looking at the demographic of, like, where that clinic's at and, again, putting, putting myself in their demographic shoes, like, who, [00:41:00] again, like, somebody in Boston is probably dealing with a different problem than someone in Los Angeles, vice versa. It's like, how do we talk to their, um, you know, to their, to their avatar?

And that's part of like the intake process that we do. It's like, where are you guys? What's going on? Tell us about your business. Um, you know, we have a framework for, and I think this comes into play for us. A lot of times is, uh, we're creating like nurture sequences throughout the customer journey. It's like, well, what is your customer journey?

What does that look like? How are you messaging now? You know, what are the specific problems that people are dealing with? Um, you know, what is like your brand to look like? What are your brand guidelines? That's all part of like the intake process. And then from there, it's a framework of, you know, everybody should have specific messaging and the messaging is very similar for new patients kind of throughout cash based clinics.

So we're able to take the framework that we have and just add in the specifics. We have a lot of help from the clinic owners to of like, please read this over, check it [00:42:00] over, add in like the, you know, or let us know the direction you want us to take this and then we can do it. Um, so it's, you know, we, we do it on a spectrum of we'll just totally write it and you okay and it's good to go.

Or, you know, what most people end up doing is. We write it and they go in and they make their edits based on what their specific brand is, which I think just helps get people over the hump of not ever putting anything out there. It's like, well, here's what you have. Let's just spice it up for your business.

Um, and again, that's how we get emails out and, you know, how messaging starts to happen. So that's, that's, that's been a nice mix of what we've seen.

Danny: Yeah. So instead of it taking them an hour, two hours to like sit there and try to figure out what the hell am I going to write? You know, it's like, okay, take 10 minutes to, uh, modify this, you know, more specifically to what you're trying to get across.

Um, because I mean, for a lot of them, starting is the hardest part, right? It's just like finding the time. And I remember, I remember [00:43:00] feeling the exact same way whenever, you know, when Ashley and I were running our clinic and it's like, oh, okay, I'm hiring somebody I've got. I got to train this new person up.

I've got a full patient caseload. I got to go do these marketing, you know, touch points with local people. Um, I've got a, you know, whatever new content for social media or whatever else. And it's just like, ah, it's like one more thing. But I think it's the thing that people miss out on doing from a marketing standpoint that legitimately drives, uh, consistent.

Patients in the door, and it's not even just, um, people that are reading it. But I was always surprised because I would be like, Hey, how'd you hear about us? Right. Then any new patient like, Hey. How'd you hear about us? We'd love to thank whoever sent you our way. And you know, people are like, Oh, you have to thank, uh, Ryan.

Ryan forwarded me an email that you sent because he thought that it would be helpful for my knee problem I'm dealing with. Right. And I'm like, Oh, so you know, people, patients of yours, if you do a good job of this, this, this isn't, this isn't like a one off example. I would see this a lot. And if you [00:44:00] do a good job of this and you provide something that's helpful, here's what you get.

Now you get people that are. You know, clients of yours, they get a plus one in their status as a trusted individual by sending your information to them and that you can't buy. Like that is very valuable. Status is a real thing. And people are very slow to refer because they get 50 percent of the benefit for a good referral and a hundred percent of the blame for a bad one.

So if they refer you to somebody that sucks there, no one, no one's going to listen to them anymore. You know, you ever listen to your friend that gave you a bad restaurant recommendation and you're like, I'm not listening to him again. Uh, that sucked and it's subjective. Right. But like with us. Like people will do that and they'll go out of their way.

If you do a good job, if you do a good job and you provide something of value and they share it with somebody else, you'd be shocked at how many people will come your way that literally like are just like adjacent to people that are in your ecosystem.

Jeremy: Yeah. And I think like, I think that is like, you have to prioritize this as well.

Cause like, you know, I think some people, [00:45:00] they probably think me, for example, like, Oh, it takes you 20 minutes. Write this and you get it done and it's, you know, it's not that much of like a, you know, a time commitment, but even like now for sure. And even prior when I was writing ripples, like, I blocked 3 hours every Tuesday morning.

And I sat down, like, I have, like, uh, you know, cause I cared a lot about this and I wanted to get better at it, but like, I had a methodical process where. Um, you know, I found copy that I really liked. I would copy that copy down. I would hand write that copy. So as well, there is a, you know, one of your emails, Danny, or a good, like, blog article that's out there, or some side of, you know, some, some copy from an ad from a Nike ad or.

Whatever it might be, I would find that and write down kind of like, get the almost like a warm up for a workout, basically. And then I would write that email out there. So it's not something that, you know, you can just do [00:46:00] in 30 minutes and put it out there. I think, you know, the point of all this is to get an email newsletter out there for sure.

But, um, you know, if you want to take a lot of time and really focus on this, I think that's how you do it.

Danny: Yeah. And I, that's a good point. One of the best ways to start to recognize good copy is to get on, you know, newsletters that are doing a good job. Um, you know, I, I do the same thing. I'll study them whether it's ours, right?

I mean, like you can head to physicaltheorybiz. com and, and get signed up and, and, and get, you know, some of our resources and get on our newsletter. Um, Jeremy, like if you want to get on the patch, uh, newsletter, that's a great example of more story, you know, sort of newsletter frameworks, what's the best way for them to.

To, um, get on the patch newsletter. Yeah,

Jeremy: just go to the patch system. com. Um, and you can just send me a DM too. If you're in the Facebook live, I'll add you to our list, but you can sign up

Danny: right there. Yeah. And, and the cool thing about it is you, I look at it like, like studying, [00:47:00] uh, anything, you know, if you want to study, uh, movement patterns.

You know, if you want to get better at training a squat, you know, a, you've got to train, you've got to train yourself, you've got to train other people, but then you can also learn a lot by reviewing biomechanical videos or breakdowns and different articles of what people are teaching or what they're looking for in different, uh, you know, uh, body shapes and all kinds of stuff.

And now all of a sudden you, you start to improve. Versus you're going to do a lot better by doing that than you are by just like spotting more, right? Like there's, there's a lot of, there's something to be said for time under the bar if you're trying to get better, but you also can make, make it better by learning about all these other things or learning from people that have a lot more reps with these things than you.

In this example, we're talking about copywriting, you know, I'm on probably. Six to eight newsletters that I like, uh, that I just like from a standpoint of how they phrase things and how they organize things. Uh, and I look at it as it's just studying more than anything else for me. Um, and I [00:48:00] always like learn something as well, which is always good.

And, and if, and I mean, I'll just like. If it, I don't like it, it's pretty straightforward, you know, like it's not like you're committing forever. So that's something that they can definitely do. I think get exposed to good copy, start like reviewing it, start writing it out. And look at some of these big brands to look at like Nike and apple and.

Coca Cola and like, I mean, they put a lot of money and energy behind, uh, all of these things. Like I, it's a, a shocking amount of time into, you know, 50 words that they might use. Uh, you have any other brands you think do a really good job? Yeah, I think

Jeremy: like, uh, it's funny. Print ads have kind of like gone by the wayside.

Now we don't have any sort of like full page spreads or anything like that, but that's really what I do is if you just research, like there's an awesome, uh, like Twitter account out there. An awesome newsletter. He's called the ads professor. If anyone like wants to geek out on this stuff and once or twice a week, he sends like [00:49:00] 10 old school ads that just have awesome copy.

So like David Ogilvie was like, he was like, uh, he's, he's, he's, he's the mad man, like that TV show is based off of him. Um, and so you can, you can research all of that, but like, it's, it's funny. Some of the brands like Rolex does a really good job with their copy. Horsch does a really good job with their copy.

Um, Some of these, like, like more of these bigger brands, Nike does a really good job, anything like any big brand, like just look at what they're doing marketing wise and figure out like, how do I, you know, how are they getting their message across and how do I take that and put it into, you know, PTU world,

Danny: dude, David Ogilvie stuff is so interesting.

Um, I got, uh, There, there was a, uh, digital marketing course that I did and they, they had a whole section there on David Ogilvie. And if you want to, you know, read any of, of these, uh, classic examples of copywriting, you have to think about like, this is [00:50:00] super old school. This is like newspapers, magazines.

You know, pre television and he would literally write the most, just like elaborate story. You're like, how does this relate to a car? You know, it's like, imagine yourself with the breeze blowing in your hair in the Bahamas and like khaki shorts and feet in the sand. And you're like, what does this have to do with the car?

You know, but you're like sucked into the story because it's so just like detailed and you know, like it's, it's just a really good example of how people were conveying. You know, a message pre technology that we have today, like digital technology. Um, and, and that name in particular is a really good example of somebody that at a very, very high level.

Jeremy: Yeah, that's one of the biggest things I've learned. And like what I try to teach people to do that are looking to get better at copywriting is I think the most important thing that you're doing when you're creating copy is you need to [00:51:00] like continue to lead people, how do you, how do you put words together to make them want to go to the next sentence and how do you keep them reading and how that's like you said there it's, you know, it's the beach in the Bahamas.

Eventually it's going to get to that car. But if I can continue to keep reading, like that is good copy of getting people to continue to, to move on. You could have a thousand words there, no pictures of people just read and read and read. Um, that's what David Ogilvie does the best. Um, and if you start to study some of that stuff, but you know, yeah.

So how do you, how do you keep people engaged in reading till you can hit them? What that call

Danny: the action at the end? Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's interesting. Obviously this is a. Kind of nerd episode on marketing, copywriting. And we get a chance to share a little bit about this, but I mean, in summary, as a clinician, if you're just like, all right, man, what's your stomp the foot, you know, bullet points here for what we really need to focus on.

Number 1 copywriting is a skill that you probably already have 80 [00:52:00] percent of you just haven't really practice it. You know, with, with words, you talk about these things that you should be putting in your copy all the time. And if you think of it more as conversational, uh, uh, words with conversational copy, you're going to feel a lot more comfortable about where to start because when you're staring at just like, you know, a blinking line with no words, and you're trying to think of what do I write first?

Um, it's hard to start there versus like, if you could think of, okay, what patient interaction can I, uh, can I bring up? That I learned something from this week. And maybe even when you're in the visit, you're like, Oh, okay, newsletter, like this is what I'm going to do. I would do this all the time. I would have, I mean, there are a number of examples that I got from patients from, for newsletters, whether it be PT biz or AP is just like insane.

It's almost everything. Even for me now, I have to go out of my way to find examples because I'm not in the clinic anymore. Um, so I'm like, you know, coaching my kids or at their school or interacting with another, you know, friend of mine or, or a family member or something. And I, I pull things from that.

But it's, [00:53:00] it's all about interactions. If you take those interactions and you can write those out in a story framework with a call to action and a lesson that you learn, that's the best way to start. You want to be, you know, really, uh, dialed in on it. Make sure you have a avatar or you have a customer, you know, uh, avatar that you want to speak to make sure you're not speaking to other clinicians, make sure you're speaking to the person you want to get in your office, whoever you're talking to should be the person you're trying to work with, not, uh, your, your peers, uh, unless.

You're trying to work with other clinicians, and then obviously you're going to, you're going to pick that, um, and then study, you know, the copy that you like the, uh, newsletters that you enjoy reading yourself or the blog posts that you enjoy reading, um, look for actual words. Don't just get on Instagram or tick tock and watch these like short little videos, like, look for people that are writing things out, uh, and, and study that because it's going to help you a lot with your newsletter and.

Newsletters work. It's just that simple. If you're not doing it, you're leaving business on the table. And, uh, it's something that should be implemented every week if possible. [00:54:00] And if you can't do that, you know, I think. Give it a shot and then outsource it to somebody like Jeremy's group that can do it, uh, to get your time back and probably do a better job.

Um, but at least know what a good job looks like, because that's the other thing. If you're going to outsource stuff, you got to know what bad looks like. You got to know what good looks like. Otherwise you could get taken advantage of, um, which happens all the time in marketing companies because clinicians don't know shit about this stuff.

Um, so anyway, anything you want to add that to summarize. No, I think, I

Jeremy: think you, you nailed it. I think that's all good. I think, you know, looking at copy, you know, obviously newsletter, we, we hit on that, but, you know, it's, it's what your website says as well. You know, it's, it's your whole, like, footprint there and, you know, having good conversational copy on your website as well is just as important as the weekly newsletter you're putting out there too.

So, um, you know, copywriting is more places than, than we think. And, um, you know, as things get more and more digital. It's, it's just gotta be, it's not one of those things that you can, you know, have [00:55:00] an AI bot do for you. I don't see that changing anytime soon. So, um, yeah, I think this is just one of those muscles that you got to flex on a weekly basis and get it out as a business owner.

Danny: Cool. That's it. Um, all right, guys, hope you liked this one. Um, as always. You know, we appreciate you listening. Uh, head over to physicaltherapybiz. com. If you're interested in learning how to grow.

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