E620 | Cash-Based Practice Sales Secrets With Yves Gege

In this podcast episode, Danny and Yves delve into a secret sales technique for selling $2,500 packages. The method involves aligning clinical skills with the sales process and getting the customer to buy in to the plan of care.

Danny shares a personal story about their experience with selling a package for the first time and how it felt strange to them. They also discuss the power of sales in everyday life and how it can help build confidence in other areas of life. 

The importance of having a plan of care for patients is highlighted, and the speaker provides tips on how to frame what you do in a way that the patient can understand without using clinical jargon. They recommend a three-step sales process to help the patient commit to a package of care and discuss the importance of conviction in one's own skill set when selling a package.

Ethical considerations should also be taken into account when selling packages, as it should only be done if it is necessary.

 Danny emphasizes the importance of being confident in one's clinical skills before embarking on any business venture. They encourage listeners to think and forecast their future to make sure that the path they are on is aligned with the life they want.

The importance of taking action to achieve success is also discussed, and the speaker encourages listeners to take advantage of their free resources and get tips for starting their businesses. This is also great info for any one attempting to start a physical therapy clinic.

Ready to elevate your practice? Book a call at the link below with one of our expert consultants today and start your journey to delivering unparalleled physical therapy.

www.physicaltherapybiz.com/apply

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Podcast Transcript

[00:00:00] Hey, real quick before we get started, head over to Facebook and join the PT entrepreneurs Facebook group. If you haven't done so yet, we have monthly live trainings going on there. There's an opportunity for you to join in the conversation instead of just listening to what I have to say on this podcast, as well as the people that I bring on.

And it's a really cool place to join about 6, 000 other clinicians that are. Honestly, trying to change the landscape of our profession through these cash and hybrid practices. One other thing that's really cool is we have a guide in there. That's a quick start guide. When you join, you can go and check this out.

There's about seven videos that we've curated that are the most common questions we get in the best case studies that we've found to really help you start, grow, and scale your practice up to seven figures. So if you haven't done so yet, head to Facebook request to join the PT entrepreneurs, Facebook group.

You have to be a clinician. We're going to check you out. We don't just let anybody in. But if you are head there, go ahead, get signed up. We'd love to have the conversation with you in that group.

So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't want to see 30 patients a [00:01:00] day, who don't want to work home health and have real student loans, create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about? This is the question. And this podcast is the answer. My name is Danny Matei and welcome to the PT entrepreneur podcast.

What's up everybody. We've had a lot of interest and we're super excited. To give y'all some information. I was really proud of my headline, the secret sales technique to selling 2, 500 packages. I was like, this is, I feel like people would be interested in, this would be a headline that would give people an opportunity a, which we'll talk about important sales is.

How people are, whether they like it or not selling every [00:02:00] day. If honestly, if you're a human being even more and then I'll talk about, which I think is so important. And this is the secret sauce. I feel like it's aligning your reasoning and your clinical skills with the sales process. And I've just found out of all the people that I've coached and done these one on one calls with, if I can get them to super solid about, Hey, this is what it looks like clinically and.

By sales or communication process to get as they are off to the races. They don't, they're, they feel like it's forced, right? Or if it's something where it doesn't feel natural or authentic. And sometimes you just need reps, right? Like we build scripts out, you need reps, but as you get those reps and feel more comfortable, then you align those two.

And that people are like, man, all I'm doing. It's just having a really good conversation, really logistically, and people are buying. And I was [00:03:00] just like, man, you're just, you're finally in alignment. Yeah. I would say you have a great sales title for talking about sales, right? It's just so funny what people resonate with.

Anything that involves money or secrets, it's always like the secret for this, the, this amount of money, whatever it is, but legitimately what we're going to talk about is. How you can reframe the clinical skill set that you already have, where you get buy in from people to frankly, do things that are uncomfortable to make habitual lifestyle changes and to buy into your plan of care, whatever that might be like they have to they have to believe that what you're saying is what they need to do.

And they've probably been told by other people that they need to do other things, or the likelihood that you're the first person that they've gone to, to try something is probably very low as well. So they're skeptical. So you have to take someone that's skeptical and then somehow get them to buy in on all the stuff that you're going to have them do.

[00:04:00] That's basically sales. And in fact, I think that skillset is harder to learn than a skillset of talking to somebody about making a buying decision. The 80% of the skill set is there, it's just on brain that and in a lot of ways I think it's getting comfortable with talking about money and that seems to be the biggest hurdle for most clinicians is the fact that what they've never had conversations about what things cost and accepting money for what they do and they feel very weird about it.

I know I did. I felt incredibly strange. I didn't want to talk about it with people and, it's just something that you have to get over. If you want to run a business, it just so happens that our business is helping people get back to things that they love, which we probably would do for free, but we can't because we need money for life.

If anything, this should hopefully help you realize just how much you probably already know and how you can just tweak that a little bit to really help with your business. Yeah, that's a good [00:05:00] point. I think I forget sometimes, I'm not in it as much day to day. And so I have a 30, 000 foot view.

In the beginning, it was hard. It was just the thought of for 2, 500 felt a little bit gut wrenching, not necessarily maybe cause I didn't have the skills, but just it felt strange to me. And I don't know if that's a combination of who we are as clinicians we're servants are typically, or maybe a combination of kind of what we learned in school where it was just like access and everyone gets access, but it was super hard.

And we see that a lot, right? That's something that we could do a live stream on as well. Yeah. Issues and how you can work to overcome those which most people need to do either need to create a framework. Some people need to perhaps even just go to therapy and just what money means to them. And it's just I think to unpack just literally right [00:06:00] there.

Think about this. You come from the pediatric PT world. I come from a socialized medical system in the government. Okay. You worked in the school systems. I worked for us, a socialized medical system. I did. Did not only did I not take money, but I didn't even talk to people about insurance, about co pays or it's completely free.

So if the two of us can learn how to effectively sell within our own cash based practices, anybody can learn that because we come from probably the. The furthest away environment that makes any sense to, to do that. A lot of people have to talk to people about co pays and co insurance and all that stuff.

And front desks have to accept payment, and it's something that I do think really requires some reps, because I would say I probably wasn't comfortable with selling for probably two years. And even the first person I ever saw, like this guy, basically, he saw me for three hours straight and.

He paid me in straight cash. He paid me in [00:07:00] literal cash, and I didn't even look at I didn't count the money until after he left, and it was quite a while after he left because I just felt like. Oh, what do I do if it's not all of, it's not there, like what's the and I remember it was 525 in cash, and he it was actually super impactful to, to actually have real cash, I think more so than paying, via card or whatever.

And I just remember Hey, I thought, oh shit, this might work. And then B just I almost felt I didn't give him enough. It was weird, right? It was like, I wish I would have given him more value, more time, and I didn't even associate with what I did was worth what he paid me at the time we were charging 175 an hour for, to, to work with me.

And, I, so if you're feeling like you're struggling with sales, you're feeling you're struggling with the. Understanding your own value and being able to be okay with that and charge for what you do, I think is very normal. And it's a sign that you're probably a fairly kind [00:08:00] person that wants to help people.

That doesn't mean that you can't be successful in business. In fact, like we, you're the people we want to be successful. Like you're good people that want, we want you to learn this stuff because on the flip side of it. The things we're going to talk about, you can use as a real dickhead and manipulate people in a very negative way.

If you start to understand how to use some of the verbiage that we talk about and some of the framing of of different sales techniques. And you can definitely manipulate people into bad things. And I think that's where the negative connotation of sales comes from is people like that versus the people like us that are just understanding how to.

Get people to commit to doing something. And really that's what we want. We want them to commit to solving a problem so that we can ultimately get the result that they want. It's good for our business. It's good for them, so it's not something that anybody should feel bad about, even though I think most people start there.

Yeah. I remember this is a, I believe it'd be a good story. Like the most. He wasn't necessarily, it was the money mindset stuff was definitely important, but also it was just the [00:09:00] mindset of what sales is. Like I did have a very negative connotation towards sales and use card salesman tricking people in the right thing.

And that didn't feel genuine to me and realized that I was having. On a regular basis and pretty good at it. Like I like one on one conversations. I like, getting somebody who is in pain and wants to go do the thing for web MD or talk to another healthcare provider and just wasn't necessarily something I agreed with.

So like to get them excited about what I could provide for them. As soon as I realized that's all I needed to do, I was super excited. And there's a time where I realized I was pretty decent at it. I never had confidence and actually. I think it was either first or second mastermind of it.

When there was like, the OG seven and it was after a whole day of there in Atlanta. And there was a concert there six or seven had dinner. And I [00:10:00] think somebody mentioned that there was like a Jenny's down in my brain. I was like, all right, I've got seven people. I really want Jenny's. I'm going to convince them how amazing Jenny's is.

And so I described how, their coffee, espresso ice cream tasted like the best cup of coffee you've ever had, but it's ice cream, and I just sold this way. And it was like, before we know. One of the guys was like, man, you're like really good at sales. Like I had no idea. And I was like, I had this weird moment.

I was like, wow. Yeah. I guess all this stuff is translating to my life and I'm probably been selling for a very long time. It's just it's communication of. What you're interested in, it could be really anything, right? Yeah, it could be, let's say your wife wants to go get, Mexican food and you want to go and get a burger, right?

And okay, game on, who wins the sales competition, right? It's my, even my kids, man I, at an early age, I have tried to get them to realize [00:11:00] the power of a couple things of reciprocity and of pre framing and they totally get it. Like my daughter will drop something at the beginning of the day for something that she wants to do later in the day because she knows that if she plants the seed.

The likelihood of that happening actually goes up dramatically. It's no different than ever. We talk to people, about whatever it might be. And it's such a pivotal skill set for a couple of reasons, right? One is who doesn't want to get there, their way more. I think everybody does, but also it's very apparent once you learn sales.

When you were being sold to and how you can not be manipulated by somebody else, if you don't want to, right? If let's say you wanted to go to Jenny's and I hated ice cream, you could shoot that down much easier than if you had no idea what was going on and next thing you're [00:12:00] lactose intolerant, you're eating ice cream just to be like everybody else.

And you got a big problem on your hands later that day. So this is a this is a verbal self defense in some ways too, because you're learning. How to, utilize this. And it's so funny when we talk to people the thing that I get out of this more than anything is the confidence that they feel that goes into any other part of their life, right?

Even people that have joined a PT biz team and we've spent time with them talking about how to have conversations, how to ask questions, how to frame things, and. For them to take that out into the world and see how that applies to conversations they have with their kids, teachers, or conversations they have with, people that are doing home services for them or whatever.

I think it takes a lot of anxiety away for people that feel quite a bit of anxiety with any sort of verbal confrontation, even if it's non threatening, they still are very averse to. Not necessarily confronting but just having a direct conversation with somebody and trying to understand where they're coming from, but ultimately trying to just get their way for whatever intentions those might be.

So I think [00:13:00] it carries over in so many other ways in terms of just. Frankly confidence out in the real world. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's really exciting to see the transformation we've seen in some of the people that we've worked with, where it's just bled into all other areas of her life, being more confident, being more direct, and I've seen that too.

To go on a tangent, but like the same thing, like in communicating with my children or communicating with my spouse, or even just communicating with, business partners, it makes things so much easier. And that's, and that is the reframe, right? That's the reframe of like me understanding that sales is just really good, helpful communication.

Communicate effectively to this person. I resonate so well with a sales process that just logically lay something out and says, hey, do you want to, here's where you are as a person. Here's where you want to be. Here's the plan. Would you like to [00:14:00] commit to this? Yes or no? That was just like, it just.

It laid it out for me in a way that just, it just aligned and it just felt more and authentic. Like the idea of not calling it sales anymore and calling it buy in or commitment. That's something we did actively at Made to Move. We just said, we're not going to use the word. If that's helpful or not, because.

Like for me, it just was really good for clinicians to hear this is buy in. This is them committing to the rehab process. That's what we're trying to get them to do. We're trying to sell them something. We're just trying to get, like you said, like commitment to a very hard thing to do, right?

Don't listen to your friends. Don't listen to WebMD. Listen to me and commit to this new process. Work out, get stronger. Go probably through some pain. Let me stick some... And there's a lot there. And I think it was again very helpful to make that mindset shift.

And it's so true too, when you look at drop off, right? Like the, if we look at real numbers, people that are not selling plans of care, they tend to see drop off around visit two or three. And now listen, I'm not saying that happens to everybody, but for sure, there's outliers out there that just [00:15:00] schedule somebody a visit at a time.

And those people come in and they finish a complete plan of care, from what we've seen now with. Literally hundreds of businesses that we've helped, implement this. Most people that are not positioning a plan of care on the front end of of their actual treatment model, what happens is they have drop off.

Screen visit two and three. And that's because for most people, that's where they feel a legitimate symptomatic change. And then they stop coming in because they think, oh man, problem solved. Yet, we know as clinicians that what we've done is we've improved symptoms, but we haven't necessarily had the time and or opportunity to resolve long-term.

Which if you look at what happens with that, and if you're just like, Oh my gosh, I just want to help people so much. I'm just like, this great clinician that just wants to help everybody. If that's how you honestly feel, you are not helping people to your best. Whenever you're not positioning a plan of care because they're going to get a symptomatic change, they're going to leave and probably a week or two one or [00:16:00] two weeks later, the pain result comes back.

And then they think you're not that great at what you do. And you haven't had a chance to actually truly solve their problem with them long term and educate them on the things you need to do to really create this true long term change. It's to the best benefit of you and the patient to actually Go through committing to a plan of care because as Eve said, it is uncomfortable.

I don't think we realize we're so in it. We don't realize how strange it is what we ask people to do. I just try to explain what you do. If you're like a performance based clinician, explain what you do to some random person that you meet. Explain that to somebody at your kids, when your kids birthday parties or something, just some random parent that, that goes, their kids go to school with yours for explaining them what you do, and then think about the weird ass exercises that we have people do, how uncomfortable they are, how he's right, they're going to be sore, they're going to be uncomfortable, they're going to have to regain mobility that maybe they've lost or rebuild some conditioning and some strength, or you're going to have to do some manual techniques that don't feel good, and if somebody isn't committed.

[00:17:00] Both with saying, Hey I'm in it for this number of visits. I'm paying for it. So I got skin in the game. It's so easy for them to back out and to just go back to their day to day life and just avoid the things that, that they really are trying to get back to you because you let them get off the hook.

So I think of it like you're pinning them down to really get the change. They're telling you in the office that they want, but they very well might lose motivation in a couple of weeks. So they really want that, but that's not when the problem is solved, right? Evolution, right? We've been in it now for, for me, it's been what, seven, eight years, maybe you for 10 and we've seen the evolution happen, right?

Like it started with two and that's not working. It evolved to packages of six to 10. And now it's even evolving more into like packages of 10 to 20, right? We're realizing that the longer we keep people around, the more we accountable, the more of a, and this is a word I'll use in hopefully.

Better we have [00:18:00] better relationship clients and our patients, the better they're going to do. Getting to see somebody for 10 hours and to really dig into what's going on with them, not only with their body, but maybe outside of that and just taking my time and just saying, okay, this is 10 hours.

We're going to focus on, which is, I think the second thing is like where you are now, where you want to be, like, what is your goal? A human being where if you're in. An insurance based practice, a little bit more difficult. You're worried about getting range of motion back or getting their pain levels down.

Only thing, this is a big thing. I noticed only thing I was worried about is I have a human being in front of me. I have an hour with them, multiple times, I'm going to make sure that hours feel good, what they want it to be, and that could be having a conversation that could be exercising more, it could be a little bit more manual.

I was able to have idea of clinical freedom, and the cool part is when I did it that way, it's. [00:19:00] process easier. And that's what I'm going back to. It was like, again, aligning reasoning and skills with what I thought was a buy in from all of my patients, get them to stick around for a very long time.

Yeah, totally. Let's get into some of these, points that you'd like to go through as we teach this stuff and we'll start giving you guys some tactical stuff to work on now that we've, Drawing you in with some stories of where this works. We could do stories all day, right?

Yeah. So change your mindset. Yeah. Goal, making sure that your sales techniques are goal focused. The third one that I just want to hit on too is, and this is one that I did a lot and I know people do is just clinical jargon, right? Somebody who taught me this really well.

Was reading story brand and everything being at a third grade level, which sounded ludicrous to me. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like I need to birds like neuro physiological and progressive overload and load versus capacity. Like I needed to use those words in order to make [00:20:00] sure that I was the expert and they were going to, trust me and that I was going to be the one that's how it was going to sell them.

And then it was turned up upside down. I realized that the. If I use words that literally my third grader, which I'm a fourth grader, but third grader would understand that is the best way to get by it. And it really changed my sales process again, where I just took, I threw all those words. I'll go through, which is the secret, right?

What my three step sales process is and how I use that. But I just started using that and I didn't use any more jargon. I just used very basic words, which honestly was a challenge in the beginning. Like at first they asked me to do that. And I was like, man, how do you like take what we do, which I think is very complex and complicated and dumb it down to a third grade level.

I was like, this is impossible to do this, but I was able to. Yeah. I think that's a really good way of looking at it. Just simplification. And it is hard early on. I think for [00:21:00] most clinicians, they'd like to talk in those terms you and what you have to realize is the way in which you talk to your peers is not the way in which you should talk to potential patients, whether you're an insurance clinic or you're an out of network cash practice, whatever it is that you have, like you have to realize those people don't know what you're talking about.

And I All you have to do is think about some other medical visit you might've had, or some other interaction you had with in an industry that you didn't understand, it if I talked to my friends that are coders about what they do, I have no idea what the hell they're talking about.

Different coding languages the way in which they build things. I don't I couldn't even explain to you how this is working right now. It's magic to me that this is actually happening. And, I just. Believe something is work is bouncing off a satellite. I don't know what's happening, the thing is like it's happening, right?

But all I know is okay, cool. This is a way in which we can be live and communicate something with a group of people. We're trying to help. Okay. Problem solved. Let's do it. All right. Okay. I'm signing up for it. [00:22:00] And. When we get a chance to talk to people, and then this is something that, again, it's a really good thing to practice in the interactions you have with people that you don't really know so well, and, inevitably, you're going to get this.

So what do you do? And most of us are like, I'm a physical therapist and okay, cool. But really, if you function in the model even I functioned in when it was more performance based stuff, it's very different than that. It's don't let me in with, Don't let me in with people that are just doing geriatric work and working with work comp patients and stuff like, it's a gray area between where a strength coach would work and where a physical therapist works.

You need to know both right? So I would always say, how, most people have some sort of activity they love to do, whether it's walking or running or playing a sport. But a lot of times they get hurt and they're not able to get back to it. I'm the guy that helps me get back to it and make sure they can do it for as long as they want.

And they're like, Oh like tennis. Cause like my elbow hurts. I can't tell you how many patients I've gotten out of just that in its own right at just random interactions that I have because I frame it in a way that is so much more. Understandable than, Oh, I'm a physical therapist and [00:23:00] here's all my credentials.

And, I can lay in, I can name all this shit and all it is frankly a pissing contest between all of us about how many letters we have behind our name. It's dude, my, my buddy's a pastor and he said the funniest thing to me the other day. He goes, dude, I just got back from this conference and it's all these pastors.

And he goes, you know what? I hate whenever they whip out their church dick. And I go, what? He goes, their church dick. Everybody wants to talk about how big their congregation is. Cause they're talking about it's their church. He calls it their church dick. And I go, first of all, I've never heard someone say it that way.

That sounds weird. But what he was getting at was all they want to say is we have 10, 000 people in this congregation. And that, for some reason, that's supposed to make that person feel better than somebody that has a thousand or whatever it might be. And he's I don't care. Put that away.

No one cares. We're here to talk about other things. So you got to get down to understanding what the other person wants and the way in which they understand what you're talking about. Cause nobody cares about your credentials. Nobody cares about how many years of experience you have and the people you've worked with until they think that you can help them.

Then you can dive into some of the specifics, but you don't need to [00:24:00] do that, nearly as much as you think. Yeah, I think if you didn't write that down, you should write that down because that was a, again, a huge reframe for me. It wasn't like, Hey, I've got all these letters here, all the features and benefits of why physical therapy works.

Like as soon as I stopped saying that, and I just said something like, Hey, we get, we help active adults get back to the activities and sports they love like that. That little reframe right there exactly got me patience. If I just explained it that way instead, they're like, Whoa, that sounds awesome.

And it's also a lot easier to say and less complicated. And right. That's all I do. I just, you come see me and you've got something you can't do. I'll help you get back to it. It's honestly as simple as that. And that was one of the best little, able to use, I think on a regular basis, because that freaked me out.

People come to the gym, I worked in a room in a gym. They'd be like, Oh man, I heard you're a PT. Tell me more about what you do. And I would just go into this diatribe of dry needling and how it can help. And I can, I, because I'm in, these things are helpful because I'm a CrossFitter too, [00:25:00] I can help you and like all these other things.

And then when I was just like, Hey, what do you got going on? What's your, what do you, what's your problem? Oh yeah. I can help you with that. These are things I see all the time. Like you're here now and you're going to get back to, doing kipping pull ups, like I got you, like this end of story, right?

Like such a, took so much. And such a more streamlined way to put it for sure. So getting things down, I think to a third grade level, no clinical jargon, I think is huge. And to, to frame this out what's the, what is the secret? What's the thing that, everybody came here to the live stream or watching the replay for, and so I'll paint the picture.

You've got a patient, maybe you've had a phone conversation. They're in for the eval, and what you want, just all the things we talked about is you want them to commit to a package with you, like a six, like I said, tens, I think are really the ideal right now in the performance based, cash and hybrid role.

And [00:26:00] I lay it out for people simply, we do the evaluation, we do a subjective, which by the way, it was longer than what you think a subjective would be. Cause there's a lot of time developing rapport. That kind of thing do some objective and some treatment at the end. It's okay, we've got to, we've got to get a commitment here.

And I tried a lot of different versions of this. And what's worked for me is basically a 3 step process. So I would just get a whiteboard out. Typically, if I got 1, and I would just walk them through. What 10 visits with me look like, and I tried to almost do it, like challenge myself in as little words as possible.

And so it would just be like, all right, step one, I'm going to see you on a weekly basis. We're going to work on really understand what's going on and reducing your pain. Super simple. I'm going to see you for, three to four visits once a week. After that, we're going to make you stronger and more mobile.

We're going to continue to see once a week until you've got some strength and mobility back. And the third one is I'm going to get you back to doing whatever. You love or [00:27:00] whatever that goal was like, we're going to work on run specific stuff. If you're a runner or, squatting heavy, if that's what you're getting back to, you don't want to make sure it never comes back again and that's it.

And we just laid it out very dumbed down, but very clear. And once people understood. I think what that path looked like, it reduced a lot of the fear, a lot of the anxiety, and just explained why 10 was necessary. Because a lot of times you're like, why do we need 10? I've answered a couple of objections already just through the sales process.

Yeah. I think the three month window is a really solid duration of time from, Just from what I've seen to make these long term changes with people and, the, everybody is different, but if we look at across the board, the, I don't even know how many, like thousands of interactions that I've had with people within this same, clinical setting, like it's.

It's great to be able to see somebody, once a week for honestly, the first four to six weeks [00:28:00] and then spacing it out, maybe even four to eight. It depends what's going on. And then spacing it out to where, we're basically releasing them back into the wild, but then with check ins, right?

So that's what I say. It's I know right now, like your elbow hurts, you want to play tennis. I get it. And if they're in season, it's really important to them, then we're going to treat this differently. Yep, I know it hurts, but if it's that important to you, then cool, we're going to help you manage this.

It's going to be, you're either an in season athlete or you're an off season athlete or pre season. Depends what, depends where you're at, right? And. Even though it might be a whatever Atlanta lawn and tennis association, fun league, but to them, it might be really important. Okay, I'm going to have to dictate that based on where you're at and what your goals are.

In an ideal world, we're going to let this calm down as we rebuild some stuff. And then we're going to reload volume over a period of time. Like I'm going to treat you as if I was treating somebody that's playing a professional sport. It's no different than that and for them to understand, what they're doing in the duration of time.

I think if you give me 3 months, I can change a lot with somebody and not just temporarily, but create [00:29:00] very long term positive changes and understand. That it takes a while for them to get used to certain things, as well as make, progressions and for you to check back in with them when they have natural regressions and what's happening, this little setback. And, you being able to say that where it's like, Hey, we have these weekly. Cause we expect that you're going to do something. Where you're going to have a setback. If you have acute on chronic, years and years history of lower back problems, it's highly unlikely that you're not going to have some sort of setback with your lower back.

That's normal, right? And all I'm doing is I'm pre framing the likelihood that's going to happen. So when it does, they're going to feel better about it. And then it's, they're not going to freak out and think what we're doing isn't working. So again, it's just layering in sales in what I'm having them do as well as the commitment side of it.

The duration of time is great for that. Not everybody needs it. And I think this is the other key. Do not be an unethical dick about it. Okay. If somebody comes in and they have a they're a 12 year old with a grade one ankle sprain, you try to sell them a 10 visit package. Don't do that shit.

[00:30:00] That's not something that we should even have to talk about, even though I'm saying it right now, because we do have to do that because people do what's best for their business sometime. And I get it. Cause I've been there, I've been there when you don't have that much money coming in and you're like, where the fuck am I going to find, these thousands of dollars need to make this month, but you cannot compromise your ethics for short term revenue.

Cause that is going to hurt you in the longterm and it's just frankly, the wrong thing to do. So when we talk about this idea of a 10 visit package, does it apply to everybody? No, but the people that it does apply to a big chunk of people that are going to come your way, it applies really well to them.

And for the ones that don't need it, don't sell it, right? It's just not, it's not worth you trying to sell everybody on a package. If they don't need it. I just think that's something that I see far too often. And it really, it shouldn't even be something we have to address. Yeah, we can use our powers for good and we can use our powers for evil, unfortunately.

And we want you to use your powers for good and make good ethical decisions. The idea of conscious capitalism, like you'll get really good at this stuff, and I think [00:31:00] we can help a lot of people, but at the same time, and that's why we give even at scale with some of the practices like with made to move with multiple clinicians when we were always going to give people You know the clinicians the freedom to you know, we're going to show them how to sell but ultimately they're there They're the clinician they could understand hey I'm gonna see you for this eval and come see me in a month like okay cool Like we get that happens, we're not trying to sell 100 package, right?

We're trying to always do What's best for the patient? I think in front of us. And to circle back, one thing I want to share too with the whole three step process is I've had to pull this out of people a lot. And so I want to give people like a way to to work on it. If they're maybe stuck, like maybe they have a different.

Style of treatment than we do. Maybe that three step process doesn't necessarily resonate or, you want to tweak it, which I think you should make it your own. Think about, this is literally what I do. If I got somebody who's stuck in sales and I'm talking to them one on one, I'll just ask them, and it seems like it's unrelated.

I'll be like, all right, he got sent eval in. Tell me what you're going to do the [00:32:00] first two to three visits. And they'll be like I'll do this and I'll do that. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Like after that, what are you going to do next? And I'll do this and and by the end of that, I'm like.

You just gave me your three step process. I was like, go back and think about these. You can basically put almost everything into a three step process, like here's the three phases of rehab. And I was like, if you just lay that out to people, which you're already doing, and you just tell them that, in a in a third grade level way, you're going to get more people who are willing to commit to you, so think about it, write it down. What am I going to do with most patients? The first couple of visits, maybe your ideal avatar, what are you going to do second? What do you do third? Just before they wrap up and got their outcome and plan, end of their plan of care, we're not discharging.

That's a whole nother question. Some people we do, we want them to stick around long term, but write that stuff out. And then all of a sudden you'll have probably a three step process you can use today with the next patient that comes in for an eval and say, Hey, this is. This is what I want you to do.

Here's where you are. Here's where I want to be. How does that sound? And I think you'll be surprised at the results. Yeah, I, the organization of [00:33:00] it through that way, it just makes so much sense. It's so helpful and you're right. People really they typically know what they would do with somebody. They just need to be able to lay it out in a more organized manner.

I think the one variable that I would say. Basically trumps everything else and has to be there. The fact that just the foundation of any sort of sale and you've just people committing to you or believing in you is your belief. Your conviction in what you're doing and that you can actually help them.

And this is interesting because this is actually where we see young clinicians struggle quite a bit more than newer or than more seasoned clinicians because they don't have as many reps. They don't have as much self confidence in their ability to get an outcome. And. Yet, when they have a few more years under their belt, their sales percentages typically tend to start higher because, they feel very confident that they can help somebody because they've done it before.

They've seen it before and they've seen the positive outcomes that people get to [00:34:00] enjoy. After having solved this problem that they have, and if you can work on anything aside from just like the structure of what we're talking about and how you lay these things out the most powerful thing I think that people can actually improve is their own conviction in what they do.

And the easiest way to do that is to actually. Think about, look at examples of, have conversations with people that you've actually helped and see just how thankful they are to be back to where they're, we're trying to go. And that right there will help your sales dramatically because if that person doesn't commit to you, they're not going to get that outcome, right?

They're going to go off. They're going to. Try all these other things. They're probably going to spin their wheels and they're still going to not be able to, whatever, play ultimate Frisbee with their kid and they really want to, and their kid really wants them to as well, and if you let that person leave your office and not committing to solving this plan of care, then they're probably not going to get back to [00:35:00] that.

Or they're always going to have to avoid this thing that they really so the ability to have high conviction and self belief in your necessarily. Being overconfident, that's a big difference there. Like conviction and self belief versus overconfidence. There's a fine line, but I would, unless you're being, unsafe, I would bias people more towards being overconfident than being under confident from what I see.

Even anybody that's willing to go into the cash based world, you got to be a pretty good clinician to begin with, and if people feel that this is the one thing that I didn't actually think was all that important. As I look back to some of the things with people would commit to doing shit with me and I didn't know a damn thing about sales, but I'll tell you this much, I got people that come to me all the time and they're like yeah, I've seen.

I've seen three other clinicians and it's not going away. And I would just straight up, I would just stare at him and say, that's cool. You haven't seen me like I'm [00:36:00] different. And I look forward to patients like you. I enjoy it. I'm the cleanup guy and you haven't seen me yet. And there's that right there.

Think about that. You go into a, you go to a physical therapist or clinician of any sort. And you're just like, nah, my knees have been bugging me for a long time. They're like, yo, hang on, you haven't seen me. And what do you say back to that? It's just that is such a confident way of just saying trust me, like I, I dealt with this all the time.

This is a Tuesday morning for me. This isn't nothing new, and that right there will lead more people to say yes to what you're doing than basically anything else, assuming you can actually back it up. Yeah, I think you you just gave people a hidden gem, that's a hidden gem right there of having, yeah, conviction and just being confident in it.

And ultimately that's, when I'm doing a lot of the one on one coaching, that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to like align those things because I think that's where confidence will come from when your thoughts and actions align with your communication.

But at the same time yeah, you've got to be confident in your skillset. And I love what you said. that you've got to go back. It's not necessarily do [00:37:00] you need more clinical skills or more continued education. Like that stuff's important. We should always hone our craft and sharpen our sword.

But like realizing how many people you've helped, I remember like being fresh out of school and just I think it was one of my coworkers and maybe refer back to the people that I even saw in school who like, I wasn't a great, like what I thought wasn't a great clinician. It's did those people get better?

And I'm like, Like all those people were super thankful. They loved seeing me. And I was like, look how great you did then too. And I was like, man so it's like going back and just doing a, an inventory, of what you've already done and the impact that you had can be such an amazing confidence booster and that, that will show right.

If you lack conviction in your, I can give you every tactic known to man. If you lack conviction, it's. Probably not going to go away. There's nothing you can do. There's literally nothing you could do. And I honestly think it's 1 of the reasons why there are people that can come out of school and go straight into a cash based practice and be fine.

I couldn't have done that. I didn't actually didn't even think I was very good at my job until about 5 [00:38:00] years out of school. Once I, and that's basically, for me It was roughly around that time, whenever I started my practice. And keep in mind, like I was teaching internationally about stuff that I was working with people with.

It wasn't like, and I even still, I felt like I still didn't know enough. That's most of us and conviction and confidence comes from practice and reps. It comes from having a system that you can rely on that helps you get predictable outcomes. It's no different than business.

It's the same thing. So if you're lacking. The clinical confidence and the conviction in your own skillset, you, you really need to deal with that first. And, and you can build that, you can build that in many positive ways, and it's going to be better for you when you do go into business for yourself, but there's also a, there's a subgroup of people in the, in this space and they are amazing clinicians.

They've been doing this for a decade and they still don't think they're good enough, but yet they're very much. Good enough to function on their own. They just, they don't have the confidence [00:39:00] for that. And what you're talking about, it's thinking about the outcomes, thinking about the conversations you have.

It's thinking about how much you've progressed from, when you were a student or when you were a new grad and how much work you've put in. Because if you're there, then, you'd be fine. But early on, I really do think it's better for a lot of people to wait, and give yourself some time to really get the reps and the seasoning that you need and the mentorship that you need.

And then say, okay, cool. I think I'm, I think I'm there. I feel very confident. And this is what I would ask you as well. If you don't feel, and I would, I've done this on dozens of occasions. I've basically told people straight up. I was like, listen, if you buy this package, you don't get better. I will give you your money back.

And I've done this because I've been wrong about certain people. And, but it's very rare. Versus people are just like, whoa, okay I'll take that bet, and then I get a chance to try if you don't feel confident in saying Hey, this would be free you don't pay me any of my hours, whatever, like complete refund.

If you don't get better, then if you can't take that bet, I wouldn't open a practice. I don't think it's, I don't think you're there yet clinically. And [00:40:00] if you have that conviction to say if I don't get you better, I'll give you a complete refund. I'll work completely for free for this for 10 hours, then, yeah, if you feel that confident, then you're going to be fine. Cause that's 80% of somebody committing to you. Yeah. And it's difficult learning both, if you need to go figure out all the clinical stuff at the same time, you've got to learn how to sell and market and run a business like that.

I think it's ultimately just overwhelming. So we definitely see the people that do the best are confident clinically, and they're just, fumbling through the sales process, right? Like not following a script and don't know what a three state, they're vomiting, but as soon as they get it.

As soon as they hit it, after they get some reps in, you just see this hockey stick growth, which is, because they're like, Oh man, people will pay 200 plus a visit. People will buy a 10 visit package. People will keep paying me 200 bucks a month to see me on a regular basis. They just like false belief after false belief is broken.

And then again, like I said, the hockey stick growth happens. So it's such a good point, right? Be in a place where you are confident. Clinically, you don't [00:41:00] need to be a hundred percent. You don't need to be the best clinician in the world, but you got to be confident. Like you said, I love that. Would you take that bet?

That's a great little gauge. That's a nice little would you take that bet? If somebody walked in, if you're, had a family member come and be like, I get you better. Yeah, of course. Just come see me right away. So we do this. You're confident in that. Then you're probably where you need to be.

And now would be a good time to say, all right, I'm ready to go learn these skills. Take the leap. Maybe you're frustrated where you are now. And you're like, man, I think I can do this because this other side, like learning the skills, don't get me wrong. It's hard. It's difficult.

But the water over here is, the perfect temperature, we've got, we're having a lot of fun over here. And You probably won't look back dude. It's so that sounds so similar to One of the conversations I had with kelly Starette and his wife before I decided to get out of the military was damn near exactly what you just said You know, I remember talking to them.

I was at the northern california regionals with across the team that I was working with as their team doc, and I still was not very much on the fence. I don't [00:42:00] know. This is my career path. This is what I want to do. And I've got a really strong chance to make it major and lieutenant colonel, all these things that I wanted to do in these schools that I could go to and all this stuff.

But I remember talking to them. And I remember him saying, he was like, Danny, you just don't, I don't think you understand. And it's going to be very hard for you to understand what I'm saying. And unless you can experience it, but he's you're over here and it's just way better over here.

Like the stuff you're doing, it's cool. And you're helping a lot of people and that's awesome. He's but it's better over here. Life is better over here. You have complete say over what you're going to do and when you do it. You have no cap on what you can make financially. And there's no restrictions on who you can help and how big of an impact you can have.

And he said even outside the military, he goes, I bet you can have a bigger impact on the military outside the military than in it, because they're going to take, they're going to look at you differently and he couldn't have been more right. Groups that I had a chance to work with things that I had a chance to do, there's no way I would have a chance to do that if I was still in it.

I think it's funny if you say that it's, if there's a [00:43:00] lot of barriers for people, there's a lot of hurdles that they have to jump over to, to even get started. If you think logistically about the things you have to do, then it's the mental barriers of what you have to do, but man.

The difference in your life and the difference in the quality of your relationships and interactions and things that you get a chance to experience in exchange for having to work past some of the challenges that we do to make any sort of business work, whether it's what we do or anything else.

I have a lot of respect for me that's done that because I know everybody questions themselves. They wonder if they're making the right decision, they wonder if they can do it, if they're capable and everybody feels that way. At every stage of growth that they have to go through, but it is true.

Like it is nicer over here in so many ways that you can't even understand unless you've gone through it. And if you don't know what we're talking about you just can't, we can't describe it. Like you just have to understand yourself when you get a chance to go,[00:44:00] pick your kids up and drop them off every day, or you get a chance to, develop this company and be creative in a way that you want to be creative and design a logo the way you want to or work with people under the circumstances that you want or really focus on a niche that you absolutely love.

And then hire people and train people to do the same things and impact more people. And you have this time and financial freedom that you develop and you look back and you're like, damn, I was going to say to be a clinic director in that dog shit clinic that I just left. What was I thinking?

But you're so trapped in it. You can't even, you can't even understand the difference of what your life would look like if you were willing to just take a risk on yourself and get over some of the fear that, that you have, because what you said, man, the water is nicer. It's, it is great.

And it is sketchy sometimes too, but it's very much worth it. Yeah, it's funny. We have Similar paths, but not exactly right. For me, it took me 10 years, 10 years to make the leap. And it wasn't necessarily somebody convincing me. It was [00:45:00] twofold. One being, I own insurance based clinic seeing.

What five to 10 years my life would look like and realizing that's something I was not looking forward to was ultimately what I have reason I made that decision because it's just to be in a place where you're like, not looking forward to day in, day out. And I'm spending most of my day working like this is going to suck.

And it's going to suck if I. Stay here, but it's and it's might suck for a while when I'm not here But at least I'm building something that in the next five to ten years is going to be amazing And it was just like the pain of staying where I was greater than you know the pain of leaving and if that would have happened I may have never left if it would have been like Lukewarm instead of freezing cold there.

I may have never left when I'm so grateful that I was in a situation that where I was just like, this is my, at that time, it truly felt like that was my only choice. What really wasn't, but at the time it really did. And I never looked back. And then it just becomes a flywheel where it just [00:46:00] gets more and more fun, more and more difficult too, but also.

More and more fun. So yeah, I just want to encourage people like if you've got that thing That's gnawing at your brain and not everybody does like some people are also okay Just being clinicians and are okay and where they're setting and that's fine But if you have something that's not your brain's like man, I think I could do this better man I'm frustrated clinically or like man Like all this that you guys are saying like sounds good Like then take the next leap if it's starting or if it's hiring or if it's scaling or if it's you know Raising your prices.

Just take that next step. You're one of those people who needs to do that. And I'm excited to watch you do it. Dude. I heard somebody say this other day it's a a drill they would have people do that are, looking at any sort of change you're trying to make.

This could be. Your careers could be your health. This could be your your relationships, whatever. And it was this idea of forecasting your future, right? So if you continue in the same path, and let's just say, this is your career at this [00:47:00] point. And I did this unknowingly. I think a lot of people do this and it's very easy to look at your boss and your boss's boss, and you just look at them and say okay.

What does their life look like? Not just their job, but what is what does their job look like? What is their life outside of work? Look what are the things look like? That are important to you at this next step within your career and then do that for their boss. And if they have a boss as well, then do it for them.

If you're aspirational within whatever this, whatever this this career is that you have. And if it doesn't align with where you want to end up, if it's not man, that's a home run it's awesome. I hope that's exactly where I end up. Then, at least now you know that, and now you can be intentional about what you decide to do from there.

And if you can forecast your own future. And sit down and really look at that and say, okay does this future path that I'm on as, as I go? Is that a line with the life that I want and this takes some time and some thinking to really sit down and look at and say what do I want my life to look like?

It's not everybody's the same, right? Like you and I [00:48:00] even are different in terms of what we, what we want our day to look like. And what our interests are. And that's normal because not everybody's fucking the same. That's why we're different humans. But, yeah. At least I know what that is.

And you know what that is. And we work towards those things intentionally and not by accident. And for a lot of people, they just cruise through life and, don't want to be, and it's by that, by a certain point, it's too late to turn around, you're 20 years into your career and there's not a whole lot that that you can do.

You don't have as much time on your side. So I think if you can think about what do you want your life to look like? Forecast your future, and if it doesn't take you in that direction, then you need to start looking at what things do I need to start changing about myself for wherever that is, right?

And again, you can apply this to health, it's okay what does it look like in 10 years if I keep eating the way I am, sleeping the way I am, managing stress the way I am, moving the way that I am, what does that look like? And I can tell you as clinicians, we see it every damn day in the office.

We see 50 year olds that are killing it and 50 year olds that can barely [00:49:00] get off the couch. We see 70 year olds that are still playing baseball. And then we see 70 year olds that can't tie their shoes. It's like along the way. They made these decisions that led to where they ultimately are. And if you can be intentional about that from the get go, you're gonna end up far closer to where you want to go than if you just let it happen.

And just cruise through life without any intentionality to what you're doing. So I encourage you, forecast your future, see where you're at, and if it doesn't align with you, want to go talk with yourself about what steps you need to take to actually get where you're trying to go versus end up somewhere that you just don't want to be because you don't really know what else to do.

Yeah, we went on a quite the little diatribe there. But I'm not sure. Are we still talking about sales? Cause like maybe I'm joking. Cause like here, the thing is the tactics, everybody wants the tactics of. Okay, yeah, say this here, do this there, whatever. These are all things that are so much less significant than you think that they are.

These [00:50:00] are proven things that can help you if you don't know what you're doing. But, it's just, it's so insignificant in so many ways versus deciding what you want your life to look like. And then you can make a decision about what it is that you want to learn. Deciding to make a change, and then you can dive into the tactics and the specifics of the things that you want to do.

And I see so many people that are, they're on the fence, dude, for years, like I even see, I don't do all of our advisory calls now, but I review damn near all of our advisory calls. And sometimes it ruins my day when I just I hear people talking to our team and they make every excuse under the sun to not make a change.

Like they will. And they're on a call with somebody to specifically talk about how they can actually get where they're trying to go. They're obviously interested, but yet any little thing. It's oh, timing's not good. Like I've got my, my birthday is next weekend. I'm like, I'll have to do anything.

What the fuck are you talking about? It's oh, it's just, I've got X, Y, and Z coming up [00:51:00] or whatever. It's never a good time. And all it is excuses that we say to ourselves to avoid the inevitable pain of the growth we have to go through. And anytime there's growth, there's pain and we avoid it, and in sales, I don't know how to sell.

Okay, cool. We can teach you that right? Or what other excuse do you have? And those excuses that we tell ourself are exactly that. And the more that we do that, the more that we start to, basically inhibit ourself from making this change that we really want. It creates so much stress in those people.

I can see it. It's hard to watch because they want it. They want to do it, but they just can't. They're scared, and it takes a while and eventually I hope that they get to the point where they realize they can do it and they need some help and they pull the trigger on it because we know what it looks like on the other side.

Yeah. You come to one of these live events that we do and it's 200 people that are as happy as hell. They're so excited to be doing their own thing. They may not know exactly what it's going to look like a year from now or two years from now, but damn it, they're in it and they're ready to go. And they're just like invigorated.

And it's just so much good energy. And it's just, I wish people could see and feel that. And you can't really [00:52:00] do it. It's you have to have faith that something's going to work before you jump. You can't know you're going to land on something and jump. Otherwise everyone would do it. And I think that's what keeps people out.

So anyway, I get a bit frustrated when I see some of those things and and all they want to know, they just want these one little tack is going to change my life. No one little tack is not gonna change your life. You deciding to make a change in your life is going to change your life. And then you'll figure it out.

Eventually along the way, and it's going to be exciting, but you can do it because I promise we're not geniuses, we're just regular people. And we did it. Anybody can do it. If you and I can well said, that's why. As our programs have evolved, there's such a bigger percentage of what we talk about and what we help people with that's around mindset.

And that's around like self development and improving your life at all aspects. Not just helping people get to a more new patients or more a bigger business. And the cool part is, as we put that focus in, Not only is PT biz grown, but the, all the clinics that we [00:53:00] work with have grown, right?

Cause we've realized that this is the foundation. This is the stuff that matters. That'll give people the motivation and energy to take, to do the thing that they probably already know how to do anyway, or can at least find out what to do, or can ask somebody that got a lot of resource. That is the foundation that allows them to take that.

I think that next step. And there's a lot of you out there. Hopefully you're listening to this, you made it this long, you got quite the hoorah speech, and what I want to offer to everybody is, Brandon is in the Facebook group, does these free game plan calls.

If you comment game plan, he'll reach out. His job is not to. Sell you anything. His job is to show you about our free resources. His job is to talk to you and tell you, what are some next steps you can take to try to get that ball rolling? Because we put a lot of free stuff out there.

Like I, we want our, our free shit to be as good as our paid shit. You know what I mean? There's a lot of good stuff out there. We will have a lot of different resources that we want to share with you. Again, if you comment game plan, Brandon, reach out, Get on the phone with you and just, help you out and say, all right, cool.

Like here's your next action item and be surprised. Just taking that [00:54:00] one step, what it can do for you. Totally, and there are a lot of free resources that we have. And the great thing about these game plan calls, we can figure out where you're at, be the next logical thing that you need to be working on.

Maybe it's our five day challenge. Maybe it's any number of other things that we have access to that, that, somebody like Brandon can share with you who's had hundreds of conversations with clinicians. It's it's hard to find vetted information from people that have actually had experience.

These types of these types of businesses. And I'm sure it's frustrating because, everywhere you look, it's okay, so and so that this ad says, and this ad says this, and it's, I, as a consumer, it can be really hard to know That's what is a a good option for you is not.

But if you get on a call, like a game plan call, there's nothing you can buy. Even if you want it to like, literally there's nothing all it is figuring out, all right where are you at? What are the next steps for you? What are you working on? And then helping facilitate whatever that next step is for you and curate resources so you don't have to try to figure it out on your own.

I think it's for us, it's just starting a relationship off on a positive note and [00:55:00] it's a fit for us, obviously we want to work with the right people and if it's not, then we want it to help you find the right the right resource. So anyway, just type game plan in the call and then we can go ahead and get something set up with you if you're interested in figuring that out.

Other than that, man, anything else you want to wrap up with? No, hopefully this stuff was valuable. A little tactical information, right? Start putting down your three step process, start working on those, building your own script out. This stuff will be absolutely invaluable as you go to sell some of these long term kind of plans of care, getting buy in, getting commitment, save this thing, come back, refer to it.

There's just a lot of good tactics in here that you just need the reps and, hopefully it was helpful. Agreed. And next week you get the ever elusive, Darren moon, who's our other business partner that that is going to come on and he's going to talk about running a financial meeting with yourself.

How do you actually run an effective business financial meeting? I'm going to share a template that, that that we use to run financial meetings. In more of a sort of a stripped down version, that's going to be more simplified, but really effective [00:56:00] way to make sure that you're tracking your financials within your business way.

And you don't want to miss that one because he's absolute stuff. So make sure next week you're going to check it out. Same time, same place. And, other than that, man, Eve, thanks for your time. We'll go ahead and end it here and we'll catch you guys next week.

Hey, Peach entrepreneurs. We have big, exciting news, a new program that we just came out with that is our PT biz part time to full time. Five day challenge over the course of five days, we get you crystal clear on exactly how much money you need to replace by getting you ultra clear on how much you're actually spending.

We get you crystal clear on the number of people you're going to see and the average visit rate you're going to need to have in order to replace your income to be able to go. Full time, we go through three different strategies you can take to go from part time to full time and you can pick the one that's the best for you based on your current situation.

Then we share with [00:57:00] you the sales and marketing systems that we use within our mastermind that you need to have as well if you want to go full time in your own practice. And then finally, we help you create a one page business plan. That's right, not these 15 day business plans. You want to take the Small Business Association, a one day business plan.

It's going to help you get very clear. On exactly what you need to do and when you're going to do it to take action. If you're interested in signing up for this challenge, it's totally free. Head to physical therapy, biz. com. Forward slash challenge, get signed up there. Please enjoy. We put a lot of energy into this.

It's totally free. It's something I think is going to help you tremendously as long as you're willing to do the work. If you're doing the work, you're getting the information put down and getting yourself ready to take action in a very organized way, you will have success, which is what we want. So head to physicaltherapybiz.

com forward slash challenge and get signed up today.[00:58:00]