E220 | Jeff Vajay Talks Cash-Based Practices And Software

On episode 220 of The PT Entrepreneur Podcast, it is my pleasure to be joined by the founder of Smart Athlete Physiotherapy, Jeff Vajay. 

Since the beginning of his career, Jeff’s goal has been getting his patients back to doing what they love, whether it’s sports or simply walking their dog. But despite his success, Jeff became frustrated with the limitations of traditional physical therapy clinics. 

After helping start multiple successful traditional physical therapy clinics in the area he decided to open his vision of what physiotherapy should be. To further differentiate from the traditional model he helped develop PtEverywhere, a cross-platform practice management solution for cash-based providers that improves patient outcomes and connectivity to their provider.

Ready to elevate your practice? Book a call at the link below with one of our expert consultants today and start your journey to delivering unparalleled physical therapy.

Episode Transcription:

Danny: [00:00:00] What's going on, guys. Doc Danny here with the PT Entrepreneur Podcast. And I got my buddy Jeff Vajay on today from the Smart Athlete Physio. Some of you might have seen his software platform, which is specifically for cash-based practices in particular. And it is something that is starting to get picked up by a lot of our colleagues.

And, uh, we hear nothing but good things about. And we want to get a chance to talk to Jeff because we talk about it. Entrepreneurs within our community. I think Jeff is an excellent example of someone that is just, that's just the way he is. It's an entrepreneur for sure, having multiple companies and trying to solve problems.

And, uh, he's kind enough to jump on a call knee while he was, he's in the car, he's a busy guy, and he's, he's, he's making, making it work. And, uh, so we appreciate your time. Jeff, thanks so much for jumping on the podcast today.

Jeff: [00:00:49] Oh, Danny, great to be here. I've listened to quite a few of your podcasts already.
We've always had a few, a couple of conversations, so super excited to be part of this today.

Danny: [00:00:57] Yeah, no, I mean it's, it's been great getting to know you a little bit more. Jeff and I were able to, Link up here in Atlanta recently. He does some work with a professional tennis association.

And, he was, he was in Atlanta. We tried to go to a pizza place that was closed. That was my fault. And then, we ended up going to a, I very much healthier place, upbeat. If you're in Atlanta, definitely check out place salad places. It's pretty awesome. And we got a chance to chat for, for a while before you went back and had the final masters.

How did that go, by the way, did you, did, did the entire tournament go well? Any, any catastrophic injuries.

Jeff: [00:01:26] No. Luckily it's tennis. It's professional tennis. So like the most catastrophic is typically like an ankle sprain. So that's definitely within my wheelhouse, which is pretty good. But yeah, it's a great tournament.
So yeah, that's my other side gig is I am part-time a physio for the ATP tour. So I get to work with men's professional tennis. I've done it for about ten years. Tennis is kind of my passion. I grew up playing it. I played in college, and you know, have been a, probably a frustrated tennis player ever since.

So getting a chance to work with, guys on tour and you know, with some of the greatest of all time, and it's just an incredible dream for me. So I was in Atlanta and then just recently got back from two weeks in of the Western Southern Open in Cincinnati. And then, And Winston-Salem opens in, here in North Carolina, My hometown.
 Yeah. So it's been fun. It's been fun. It's good. It's a good time. Great. A great opportunity. But. You know, when I'm, when I'm back home, I'm, I'm in the clinic at smart athlete physio and just really trying to work on growing, that clinic. And, you know, I've been inspired by a lot of your information podcasts and just trying to implement a lot of them, a lot of the things of, some of the other people are posting within your groups, and only, just working on growing.

So it's been fun.

Danny: [00:02:40] Yeah. And I think, you know when we talk about this idea. Everybody thinks they're busy until, you know, they get a chance to talk to somebody like you who, you know, like we lay it out there, right? Married kids, like being around all of them, have a, you know, a cash-based practice, that you have multiple providers within.

So, you know, managing all that as well as still seeing patients working, you know, with professional tennis. Oh, and by the way, software company that you just decided to start. So when we like it. You know, lay all the cards on the table. If you think you're busy, you're not as active as Jeff. And I think we talk a lot about time management because it seems like you do an excellent job of being able to, you know, focus on the things you need to within your, you know, just within your different businesses.

But also. You within priorities you have, you know, with your family. Have you found anything as you've started to take on more and more roles? It's helped you with the management of time. Cause I think this is something we're early business owners. They suck at this, and it can be an Achilles heel that slows them down because they just waste too much time focusing on the wrong things.

Jeff: [00:03:45] Yeah. I think the number one thing that has helped me with time management is becoming a parent. You, you don't realize how much time you have until you have children and how much time you probably wasted in the past. So that's perhaps made me more efficient than anything. And then, you do realize pretty quickly that, you know, I've got to find a way to get stuff done.

So, you know, you're, you're searching. You're, you're trying to just talk to others that have done it well in front of you instead of trying to recreate the wheel. So, you know, we're always trying to put a better system in place. And, and the key is systems, right? Creating systems, put it, putting those systems in place that can be reproducible, and free up your time.

So that's why we, that's why I listened to your stuff. That's why I'm; I'm continually searching for enlisting to others. Defines, you know, w how can we, how can we streamline our business? How can we make the day to day operations a lot easier? And then that, that's, that's the million-dollar question, right?

And then it probably is an answer we'll never have, but we're just always searching for the best solution that works for us.

Danny: [00:04:44]  That's a well said. I think it's just the, a better way, right? It's, it's, I had a conversation with a friend of mine recently that is, has started and sold multiple companies, and he said, he's like, dude.
Everybody lies to you about, you know, what, what you, you want to accomplish in your business? He's like, yeah, you want to, you want to grow it, and then you want to build, take yourself out of it, and then you want to sell it. And, and he's like, when I did it the first time, he said he got depressed afterward, and it was because.

The things that he liked, he didn't get a chance to do anymore. And, and once, you know, he made more than a certain amount of money, like it didn't matter much to him. It was really about the process that he likes, and it's why he started other companies is because he doesn't need the money.

He just likes the process. He loves the work. He likes building something. And I mean, I think that's what's so cool about it and taking the mentality of—continually trying to develop and grow and improve that idea of, you know, sort of like a Kaizen approach of continually improving. That's a prominent place to eat cause it's fun.

But it also gives you something to try to get better at continually. And I would assume like that's probably the thing that you like as well.

Jeff: [00:05:52] 100%. And you know, I'm lucky enough, like we've grown our business over the last three years. I've got two great partners that each has like 20 plus years of experience and had been in the community a while.

So, and we've had an incredible word of mouth from day one, and that's helped us grow the the the practice a lot. But, you know, one thing that I've gotten as I practice more and more, and I think this works directly into growing your practice, and it also. It makes coming to work more enjoyable. So I'm just trying to get more specific into my niche.

You know, I love tennis. I mean, I travel on a tennis tour. I love working with the youth tennis population and trying to keep them healthy and make them improve. And so, you know, each, you know, I'm always trying to, you know, how can I, how can I get more into that niche population? How can I make that my soul?

You know, treatment base. And, and that's, that's what I'm continually looking to do, trying to try to get that. So I think, you know, I hear this a lot. I guess when you're trying to grow, especially a cash-based practice, it is essential to have that specific yes. That you can be the expert in that you, that people look to you for the information.

And I, that just makes growing the practice so much easier. And it makes coming to work everyday pot, and it makes all the other stuff that we have to do the admin side and creating the systems and all that, it makes it worthwhile because when you get to work and do your work, it's what you're incredibly passionate about.

And that's, that's my ultimate goal right now, is just to continue to work towards that. You know, you, you, you develop all these skills over time. And you know, you want to use those specific skills on the population that you gravitate and, and, and help the best. So that's what I've been looking towards.

That's, that's, that's, that's the mind shift that I've had over the last couple of years.

Danny: [00:07:35] Do you have any advice on, like, obviously you consume a lot of content, which I think anybody can do, but not many people have context associated with that and implementation. So like, let's say, yeah, they're, they're listening to a podcast, and they're like, Oh, that sounds like a great idea.

Most people forget about it, and they move on to the next thing cause they're just so busy like consuming content but not necessarily applying it. Do you have any advice for people that, I mean, directly probably listening to this, cause you to do an excellent job of implementation? I think that's the difference between, you know, you say you do a lot of content, but I also know, you know, you like.

Implement things quickly, and that's a big difference. So what advice do you have for people that are constant content consumers, but seem to never really get anything done?

Jeff: [00:08:21] Yeah, well, I think it is, again, it's, it's thinking about what you're trying to create, right? And I'll also talk to your target market that you're trying to create it for and make sure that it's on the same page.

You know, Make sure that what you think in your mind is what the people want, and then really work hard to create that ideal package or program or whatever, and then do, do everything you can in your power to implement that. I mean, that's kind of how that's a lot of how PT ever was started.

You know, I was looking for a better way to, to kind of streamline all the admin and day to day, tasks, and. And be able to get content out to my customers right now. So, you know, we created this all in one platform that can manage your practice, but it can also connect you better to your patient and, you know, throw them from home exercise to help the telehealth, to, to getting the document.

You know, that, that's helped me a lot, a lot of my tennis athletes, we know we're tracking, we're chatting, tracking health metrics through the software. We are, I'm sharing, Important training documents or just educational documents with them? I'm getting them. There are complete exercise programs.
They can message me at any time, you know, we can do video chat. So, so things like that. Using technology a little bit, I think can, can help. But ultimately it comes down to, you know, knowing what your target market wants and, and just creating something that's suited for them.

Danny: [00:09:46] Well, let's, let's go down this path of a PT everywhere, because, you know, if you want to watch Jeff's stuff, I'll go for it.

You know, Smart Athlete Physiotherapy and Raleigh, he's doing a great job with that. But what I think is interesting is, and, and I've noticed this same problem within our profession. You just happen to have, you are working on solving it is as the—more out of network and cash. You know, dominant practices grow and, and there's many more now than there were ten years ago.

There are inherently different platforms that are what we're looking for. Like we don't need this robust EMR is to get authorization from insurance and, and all these other things that go through like a biller. It needs to be slick. It needs to be simple and, and improve our ability to communicate with, you know, with, with, with home exercise plans, things that we're doing in particular for doing like detailed program work for them, that we want them to follow over some time. They're not coming back for like two or three weeks.

So compliance is essential, but also ease of self-booking is another big one. You know, the, that I see with a lot of clinicians, you, especially early on. Because they don't have an administrative, you know, the person in the house, and it allows them to leverage technology to sort of fill in for that in some capacity.

So tell me about like the origin story of PT everywhere and the emphasis of kind of starting it and where you guys are today.

Jeff: [00:11:03] Yeah, sure. I mean, we, we're about five years in and it all started where I had a probably were, we're, a lot of things started. I had it at a patient that we were having a conversation, and we were just talking about, you know, how can I get this information to you better?

You know, how can I make you more compliant? And, you know, she's like, yeah, you know, I, I would, I would love to, I would love to be able to have this information at my fingertips in, and she was a software developer, and she was thinking of. You know, getting into the electronic medical records, you know, industry.

And it started there with just luckily having someone that knew how to develop software and myself, that was a frustrated clinician that, that, that wanted to get a product out there that could better connect me to the patient that wasn't designed around. You know, just billing and insurance. But it was designed around, you know, making a, a provider and a patient-centric platform that could get people better.

So that's, that's really where it started. And then it's been a journey ever since. You know, when I opened my cash-based clinic, you can see from the software, for anyone that's used is that it's designed for. It can get you up and running off the ground if you've just met one—provider clinic or, or if you're, you know, multiple providers.

But that's what we, we do. We try and make it easy for the patient because it's a browser or app base. We can make it very easy for the patient to schedule either through the app or through the provider's website. We make it, you know, all their documents can be emailed or sent within the app. You know, so you're, you're, you're automating the intake.

Form process of it. So you really could, we have a lot of clinicians that utilize our software that doesn't have a front desk admin. I mean, I think that's their ultimate goal. And I think that you know, we noticed our clinic jumped leaps and bounds once we get it higher, someone that was going to be on site.

But, you know, the software is designed that you can, you can be without an admin where you're, you're, you know, someone signs up. Their intake paperwork is automatically sent to them. They can fill out within the app, and you get a notification, you can review it. They get all their exercises within the app, video, or PDF.

Very easy to implement your exercises. They can message you, so you're, you know, you're already, you're in contact with that patient. They can ask questions. And then we've added some slick features on top of that, like, you know, hella health, function, which. Yeah. I think it's going to be a huge up and coming trend in our profession from consultation to, you know, actually interested maybe insurance, they stuff, type of service.

So, that kind of hits on a lot of the main features, but it pretty much has everything that you need to manage your practice, as a cash-based provider.

Danny: [00:13:47] No, I, I'm interested in regards to the process that you went through to, you know, build, build the software company, up. I feel like it's something that's, would take a lot of, sort of like upfront time and costs, that is a little different than a cash-based practice is hugely, low entry point to start for any businesses.

It's, it's incredibly low. You know, you're talking about a couple of thousand dollars to start a practice, especially if it's like a side hustle, and you can just really shoestring budget. But with a software company, it's exciting. It seems like it would be a lot more resource-heavy, on the front end, to then spread that cost over quite a few users.

So what unique problems, have you noticed, with, you know, a software company versus a cash-based practice that you own.

Jeff: [00:14:31]  I mean, they are, they are very different. They both work with each other because, you know, in my clinic, we're always trying to look at what we're doing in the clinic, and, you know, how can we make the software make our lives more comfortable in the clinic?

And, you know, how can we make it, make your clinic more marketable? All these things that we're looking at, but yeah, from a, from a. Wow. Oh my gosh. It's so different. We, No, we're fortunate that my partners, the parent company, you know, they've got a very, they're, they've got a very significant development team.

So, you know, when we, when we request that they, my job is just to create what, what needs to be created and kind of define that. And then the development team had to runs with that. But it's a massive undertaking, and it takes a lot of time. I mean, until you're actually in this, you don't realize how long it takes.

And. What kind of staff it takes. It's just a massive, massive undertaking, but you know each, I feel like eat as each year passes through, as we get more and more robust with our features and, and we get more in tune with what our people want, it gets a lot easier though too. But it's been a completely different process.

I have to think. I have to put a completely different hat on from physical therapy and just, and become a little bit more logical, analytical, and, and, it, it's refreshing. It's beautiful, and it's been cold, it's been a neat process for me.

Danny: [00:15:56] So, obviously there's some like unique challenges with that, but there's, there are some unique advantages too.

So what are you thinking? What do you think the unique advantages of, you know, the software application that you guys have developed, has over, let's call it just, just like a traditional kind of brick and mortar business?

Jeff: [00:16:12] Yeah, I mean, that's, that's precise, I think with a traditional brick and mortar.

Danny: [00:16:24] Still no more than, more than anything, primarily from a, you know, growth scale standpoint and, you know, opportunities you have within a software company versus a brick and mortar business like we owned with RPT cash-based practices.

Jeff: [00:16:38] I mean, you're so reliant. I think there are some similarities. Like you're, you're reliant on your customer base. for there, for their social approval and, and, and word of mouth, just like we are with our, with our patients. So, you know, I think that's critical. You create the right product and, you know, people are very comfortable saying, Hey, I love this.

You need to use this. So I think that that is very similar. But it, but it's different because I believe with what we're trying to sell, people don't necessarily need to know that they need that they're, I, you know, they, they see this as an evil, like, ah, I, you know, one EMR is, is the same as the other, or it's just all painful.

So I don't care. I'll just, you know, no matter how bad it is, I'll just use it and suck it up. So I think we're finding, again, that kind of mindset where we really can make it quite painless and make the transition quite painless and make, make your actual, your, your day today. Admin a lot, a lot better and more streamlined, versus, you know, it's, it's brick and mortar, and we're talking to them.

Physical therapy, people know that they're in pain. They know that they need some help, and they're, they're seeking it out. So we're up. It's been hard. We, obviously people that are starting up their practice, they know they need something. So that's a perfect entry point for us, but it's, it's the.

It's the people that I have been utilizing something for a while, and it kind of in that mindset where, yeah, this is just bad. Still, we're used to it, that those are the ones that we're trying to figure out the best way to convert them and say, Hey, listen, we do have something that you'll probably enjoy and will make your life a lot easier.
That's been hard.

Danny: [00:18:08] Yeah. And I feel like early on it seems like a, you're fighting against Google in many ways, just because. Yeah, I mean, and which is a hard battle, with, with, you know, people doing everything in Google documents, which is very cheap to free depending on how much storage you need.
And, but slow. And I think when, like what I've noticed is when you, when people are new in, in, in, in business, and I was very much like this, I had more time. Then I had money, and I didn't think of things from a long, you know, standpoint in terms of, you know, what did I want to be able to grow into over the next few years?

It was just about solving that problem right then. And, and I, that's the way I started to, I started with, you know, Google, and then transferring. Everything was such a pain in my ass that, you know, I really would have loved to have, you know, go back and then. I had something that I could scale into instead of having to try to like, re-upload everything to keep myself, keep myself organized.

So, you know, when you have that conversation, I'd be interested to hear how you guys are positioning that because, if, if it's just an EMR, it's a commodity and commodity is price and or speed are the only two things you can compete on. So how are you guys having that conversation with newer practitioners that are like, yeah, well, why can't I just use Google?

Jeff: [00:19:27] Well, I think a lot of it, yeah, we hear that a lot. You know, and I think, as you know, with what you're trying to do with your mastermind and all of your education, it's, it's not just about, it's about creating time and creating efficiency. And yes, you can grab five different software and try and make them work together, but it's so much easier to make, to take one that, you know, is, is, seems to be designed to work together.

And it makes your life easier. I think that that's part of it. That's, that's the education that needs to go. And also that, you know, we're designing something specific for this niche. It's designed just for this work. You know, Google wasn't intended just for cash-based providers. You know, a lot of other EMR wasn't intended just for cash-based providers, and it wasn't taken into account a lot of the pain points that they have.

So, you know, we've created a product that's very specific, just like when you're trying to. You know, for us, we see a lot of tennis elbow. You know, we are, we like to think of ourselves as the experts in tennis elbow. We know exactly how to treat it. We've seen tens of thousands of these patients, and we have a specific recipe for them.

So, you know, I think people come to us because of that and they appreciate that knowledge that we can give him. I look at it the same way with this product. You know, we've got a, we create a product that's specifically designed, and correctly we'll answer a lot of pain points that, That our customers want.

And, and a lot of other products can't say that they're, they're, they're too broad, and they're too general.

Danny: [00:20:56] I think you do a great job of highlighting just the importance of a niche only in any business, really, right? Like, you know, having a defined niche that you are world-class at, you know, I think is, is, The best way to be able to differentiate yourself and not be, you know, in that commodity, conversation. So, so much. And I think the other thing for you guys is, you know, looking at the marketing side of it like this, it's just so exciting. Business is interesting to me because it just doesn't matter if you have a software company, a cash-based practice, if I'm selling ice cream, it doesn't matter.

Ice cream probably would be the easiest. Could you imagine having, have an ice cream company do like it would be. So damn easy. Who doesn't like ice cream unless they're lactose tolerant? But yeah. Anyway, let's draw draws back. There are the nuts and bolts of customer acquisition, sales, and retention.

Those are the big three things. So for you guys, you know, we're having a sales conversation, or you're, your team is having a sales conversation about the software and all that. But from a customer acquisition standpoint, you know, the very beginning of, of your, sort of a, of your funnel, if you want to put it that way, how are you guys.

Getting in front of your target audience and finding them and then getting them to start that, that kind of a journey with you.

Jeff: [00:22:03] Yeah. A lot of that is just started through social media. You know, we're, we are, we're trying to, you know, Jonathan is a, is our director of sales and marketing. He's trying to put content out through Instagram, through Facebook.
We, we've, we've tried unsuccessfully with them, like Facebook, Facebook ads. I think it was just too hard to target that, you know, the physical therapy. I guess you could target a specific—the student population. But for us, it was like tough to focus, you know, like a cash-based practice with, with, with Facebook ads.

So, you know, we've just taken the approach of only really, I mean from, from cold calls to just scouring social media to do once we get some customers trying to make. You know, trying to educate them to promote us and incentivize them to propose that that's kind of the grassroots approach that we've taken.

And we finally started to get a little bit of a, I think, social proof and some social traction, and then now it gets a lot easier. It, once, once they scheduled a demo. And they see the product, then that's the natural part. Like it pretty much is a home run from there, but it's. Still, the hard part is, is getting people to, you know, realize that they are happy these.

I think a lot of practitioners, especially someone like myself that's been the practice over 20 years, you just don't believe that there's anything better, so you don't want to put the time and effort into looking. So, honestly, I haven't found, we haven't done the perfect solution to that yet. We haven't.

But, the, you know, we've, we, every month we're getting more and more traction. We're bringing on more and more customers, and I can't get enough credit to Jonathan and our, and our team, for working with that. And I think a lot of it is customer service once we have them. You know, he provides incredible customer service and you know, education on how to use the product.

And that's before it does it all translates back to our, our practice. You know, I think if you can get someone in the door as a, as a clinician, you show them that you have a great product and you treat them well and provide them with the care that they need, then they refer friends, and they keep coming back.

So we've, we've used really that, that model, in the software development as well.

Danny: [00:24:11] Have you guys found specific metrics in terms of retention? Is this something that I'm just, at least in our, well, in the, in the two businesses that we own, like we're very, very intentional about retention. And I think we could even be more so, and.
Usually what I see is people are so focused on the front end, they're just like lead generation, lead generation, lead generation, and I guess if you have nobody coming through the door, then that's something that you need to be focused on. But at a certain point you have to take a step back and say like, man, am I trying to fill up a bucket with a hole in it?

Because if I have, like, let's say you have, you know, a hundred trials every month. Only 30 of those are converting, and then those people are sticking around for, let's call it six months, and then they move on to something else. It doesn't matter how many leads you get, and you're not going to have a functional business.

You're just going to, and it'd be better off for you to just, you know, have nobody, you wouldn't be wasting all your time hiring other people. So, you know, when you look at retention, what kind of strategy and approach have you guys taken to decrease churn and turnover with people leaving the platform, and the, that you've noticed that have been beneficial.

Jeff: [00:25:10] Yeah. We've had such little turnover. And again, I, I, you know, attributed that to being a, you know, a product that meets the needs of what our customers looking for and our excellent customer service and support. So maybe when we did have some people that left, it was in the beginning when our, when our software wasn't as mature as it needed to be, didn't have all the features that people were looking for.

But since then, there's really. Close to 0% sure. And so, you know, and that's like, there's a lot of, and you talked to, you know, why not? You know, like most, most clinicians, and they hate what they're using yet, they've been with it for ten years. So this is good and the bad of what we're fighting against.

Like we've got people that hate what they use. And are going to stay with it because they know what kind of pain the acid is to, to, to transfer over. At the same time, we feel like we've got a great product and, and it works for us in that regard where no one leaves and, and it's not because they, they dislike it because we're actually, we're giving them what they want.

So ultimately, again, it goes back to that. That lead generation is, it's making people realize that, Hey, there is a better product out there. A lot of people love that, and once you make the switch over, you're going to be very, very happy and, and, and that's, that's really, I think the biggest thing, the biggest issue that we need to tackle retention right.

For us it has been, it's not been an issue. And we're always, every month we're probably developing more and faster than we should have. We're still putting new stuff all the time, and we take a lot of feedback from our customers, which I think is unique. Cause I, I'm, I'm, you know, again, been around for 20 years practicing, and there are multiple attempts for me to call in to some of the platforms I was using.

And you know, I knew instantly that they were, they were maybe writing down my idea, but it was never going to get implemented. You can almost, you know, if you have a good idea and you're one of our customers, I mean, it's going to get implemented probably very quickly if there's that, if there's that need within the, within the, within our customer base. So I think that helps us a lot.

Danny: [00:27:21] Yeah, for sure. Well, having the, you know, the ability to be agile with that, especially early on, is, is really, It's pretty rare. I read a book called the lean startup, which I assume you guys kind of took this route based on what you're describing, where you know you have this minimal viable product.

They put it out there. And then you get feedback in real-time from your customer base, and you start to make, make changes to improve it versus, you know, people that wait and this, and this is a fault in any business. We put it that way where people, they plan, and they expect, and they wait, and they wait.

Like it's just not the right time. And this has to be. This has to line up this way, and it has to be perfect. Otherwise, you know, I just can't get going. And then that's what they know with the notices. Like, it's ten years later, and you haven't done a freaking thing because you're too worried about these little, you know, intricacies of the item you're trying to do.

They're just, you haven't even gotten started, you know, and I'm assuming that would be the same in your, you know, the software coming into such an albatross of an undertaking that you've decided to, to do. And, you know, how do you guys. How do you guys fight that sort of perfectionist mentality and just say like, Hey, we can improve?

Like it's, we're, I know, we're going to get some negative feedback probably for certain things, and that's okay because that's going to give us an idea of what we need to improve. But how do you work on the lack of like not becoming a perfectionist at the same time?

Jeff: [00:28:38] I think you just have to re once you're in software, you're going to realize that no software is perfect and everyone's going to find something that they don't like about it.

And you can't avoid bucks. Right? So, you, you, you, I think you'd become. You realize that pretty quickly. And you know, your job is just to put out great content. You know, try and throw that off of your customer base and get their feedback. Put out great content and make sure you're very diligent in the development side of it.

But yeah, I mean, it's software. So, you know, there's, someone's always going to have a complaint. Someone's still going to say, well, why can't you do this? You know, we'll, we'll, we'll keep turning out some great features. And then someone's like, Oh no, we need this. We need this. Yeah. It just, it's just the process.

It takes a long time to develop these things. And I think we were incredible, reactive to what our customer base wants. But at the same time, they got to realize that, Oh, there's a lot of the other software out there. They're not going to take what their customers are saying. Oh, you know, they're, they're not, they're not listening.

They're not trying to develop. And I think that's where that's what separates us. From from the rest is that we're, we're always adapting, continually looking for what are our customers' pain points are, and we're, we're, our competitors are probably not doing that, or they're so large and so established that it's tough to make significant changes in your software.

That's another thing you realize pretty quickly. You know, if you haven't developed your platform correctly, then it can be tough to be nimble and, and make these changes.

Danny: [00:30:12] Let's draw this back a little bit to your, your, first business, your cash-based practice and, and what you guys are doing in Raleigh, which is, you know, it's refreshing to see an expansion that you guys have over the last couple of years.

Kind of multiple providers and, and, and having, you know, partners in that role, which is, which is unusual. It just shows to show you there's a lot of different ways to be successful in. In a, in a business, whether it's, you know, you, you go the kind of straight employee route, or you have more of like a partnership, you know, revenue share, actual equity share, lots of different ways.

But what have you found in particular for younger practitioners? A lot of people are listening to this, that, you know, or they're on the fence about. Starting a practice, maybe it just got gummies. It's just like a side house or something like that. But, but, you know, within that first kind of six months to 12 months, of getting going, is there anything you wish you could go back and tell yourself to either do or not do that you wish you could?

you know, go back in time and, and, and say, Oh, a young Jeff all

Jeff: [00:31:03] right. The number one thing is that I should've done it sooner. You know, I think I was, I was too cautious going into it. I, it took me too long to change my mindset. That that this could be done. So I think the biggest thing is belief. You know, if you, if you are competent in your skills as a clinician, there's no reason that you can't make this happen, in the cash-based setting.

So it's, it's a mindset. You have to have that mindset. Once you, once you have that mindset shift, then, the rest is just putting the time in which we're already doing. You know, every day we're already doing that, that stand out quality customer care. You've already honed your skills. Now it's just about.

It makes it almost easier once you go cash base because you can create your, your optimal treating environment, you know, which you can't always do in a more traditional clinic because you're limited by time or volume or, or multiple of things that we were all frustrated with. So, you know, that's the number one thing I would've, I would've done it sooner.

I would have gone into it more aggressively sooner. And, you know, I would just tell myself, just believe in yourself. You know, that's the number one thing. And then start to start to. Follow us. There's that have done it well as well.

Danny: [00:32:12] Oh, I 100% agree with that. You know, just finding a, I think the easiest way to achieve what you're trying to do is find somebody that's already done it and then only follow with they've done.

I mean, it's, it's, it's sort of like a coach, right? Like when you're playing tennis. There's plenty of good tennis coaches that probably weren't like the best players in the world, but there were perhaps were like. Somewhat competitive and useful. And, and you align yourself with those people, and you get, you know, you get feedback inherently of what's going on.

I think that's the biggest challenge early on is you're, you know, it's, it's sort of like somebody dumps you in the middle of the ocean and like a rowboat and. Not only do you not know where you're going, but you also don't know how to row. And so you just start going right, and you start. Usually, there's a lot of effort.

So you're just here. It's like pulling hard, and you don't know if you're going the right direction and, and, or if you're efficient. And then you start to like sort of figure things out, usually the hard way or the slow way and then, and then sort of starts to click and later, and then you start to move in the right direction.

But man, if I could have gone back in the first like six to 12 months. Whenever I was in, in business, dude, I would have told myself all kinds of things about like, like actually getting some help. I think early on people were also, I guess it depends on the personality. I definitely, felt like looking for help was a crutch.

I was like, no, I can figure this out on my own. No, I'm a lone wolf. You know what, when there's a lone Wolf, that means they're older and about to die, or they've been like, you know, cast out. Nothing good comes from that. And, you know, I think, you know, for you, in particular, bringing partners on. How has that been since you, you went from, Oh, it's just you getting started, and now you have these two other partners working together.

How has that relationship gone, and how has the business gone? Sunset. It was the best way. 

Jeff: [00:33:47]  I mean, it caused an exponential growth instantly, which was, which was great. You know, again, I have two partners that are, that are good friends of mine and well established in the community. So that right there helped.

Not everyone has that from the start, you know, they haven't been practicing for 20 plus years and in the community. So, that helps a lot. That already gave us an instant, you know, social proof and word of mouth. That you know that it's essential, it takes time to build up, and you have to do that.

But for me, that was, you know, I was also developing software, and I was even traveling. Yeah. Anywhere from seven to 10 weeks on or so. So it just gave me the ability to, we were able to commit financially to more things, you know, get, get a better location, put more money into the business initially and have like that consistent patient load right away.

And then, from that point on, now our, our focus is on, you know, we realize there's a lot of people that do want to transition into the cash-based world and a lot of people that just want to move out a little bit, make some extra cash, pay off student loans, you know, treat, treat a niche that they want to address.

And so that's what we're putting our effort into. And you know, having the three of us, there was a traditional workload, and now we can focus on bringing in great providers that want to Moonlight a little bit. They want to develop a specific niche that, that's our business model now. And it's been very successful so far.

We already, we just brought on A women's health specialist. She's great clinician, and, you know, she's going to, she's going to hit a home run and then we're talking with another, a local PT that's got a specialty sports niche, and we're hoping to bring him on soon. So that's, that's, we bring it out. Partners have allowed us a little bit of financial stability early on and also allows us to, you know, get to our goals faster and distribute some of the administrative.

So it's been, it's been very positive for me.

Danny: [00:35:46] No, that's great. Jeff's a super smart guy. You want to check his stuff out, Jeff, if people want to check out, you know, you're practicing your software company, where's the best place for them to go and find some information on that?

Jeff: [00:35:59] Yeah, so if they, if they want to reach out to me, Jeff at smartathletept.com is an easy one to go to.

Danny: [00:36:18] Cool. Go check it out for sure. I had nothing but good things to say about what Jeff's doing in particular software. So guys, if you're looking for something that is a, you know, an application you can grow into, this is one that a ton of people in my mastermind group, you know, actively are using.

And definitely, something that if you're, if you're just getting started, is an excellent way to. Just scale into that and, or if you have, you know, multiple practitioners, it's still a comedy set as well. So, Jess, thanks so much for your time, man. I appreciate it. I think we were going to get a lot out of this one, and, you know, we'll, we'll catch up here soon in person.

Maybe we can get to that pizza place, and it'll be open next time.

Jeff: [00:36:48]  That'd be actually, and I look forward to getting back to Atlanta and, He puts out the great content because I enjoy, I have a probably a 25-30 minute commute every morning, and I enjoy listening to your podcast. I did. It's always relevant information and, it's, it's great stuff.

So, keep, keep promoting. You've done a great job so far, and our industry needs people like you. So thank you very much.

Danny: [00:37:10] I appreciate that. I understand you saying that. I know sometimes it's like, I look at the content calendar, and I'm like, dude. You're cutting it close, man. It's Tuesday.

And, and, you know, you gotta you got to do a podcast. It's like Monday night. And our producer is, is texting me, but it's been, including doc and jog podcast. It's been over four years that I've, I've gone, at least one, if not two podcasts every single week. So I don't plan on stopping anytime soon.
I love getting the feedback from that because sometimes it's, it is a bit of a, a bit of a burden to get the information out, but it's just so cool to hear how it's impacting the profession. And so I appreciate that.  

Jeff: [00:37:40]  I'm sure it is a burden, but it's great information, and you can tell you've been doing it a while.

It gets the good stuff, so we appreciate that.

Danny: [00:37:47] Well, cool, Jeff, thanks so much for that guys. As always, thanks for listening to the podcast, and we'll catch you next time.