E634 | What Marketing Is Working Now With Jeremy Dupont

This podcast discusses effective marketing strategies for cash-based physical therapy practices. Doc Danny interviews Jeremy Dupont from Patch, a marketing agency that works with PT practices.

Jeremy shares valuable insights based on his extensive experience working with PT practices, shedding light on what marketing techniques are currently proving successful. He highlights the guerrilla marketing tactics employed by Ripple Physical Therapy when they first opened, such as placing posters on construction sites to generate buzz.

Taking inspiration from the marketing campaign of the Barbie movie, which achieved phenomenal success by thinking outside the box, Jeremy delves into the importance of unconventional tactics in capturing attention and driving results. He emphasizes the value of newsletters, client success stories, and story-based emails that follow a lesson framework and include a call to action.

These creative marketing ideas can be adapted and implemented at a local level by physical therapy practices.

The conversation also delves into the concept of quarterly marketing campaigns focused on reactivation. Jeremy shares the example of Ripple Physical Therapy's "fresh start" campaigns after the summer and New Year, targeting individuals whose routines have changed.

Paid ads are also discussed, with an emphasis on the need for practices to build trust through reviews before diving into advertising. Jeremy shares his own experience of reframing the value of phone sales compared to insurance-based care, overcoming initial reluctance.

In conclusion, Doc Danny and Jeremy provide a comprehensive set of core marketing strategies for PT practices, including prioritizing quarterly campaigns, tracking lost patients, and organizing local events with effective follow-up systems to nurture leads.

For those looking for experienced implementation of these data-driven best practices, outsourcing to Patch can be an excellent solution.

Ready to elevate your practice? Book a call at the link below with one of our expert consultants today and start your journey to delivering unparalleled physical therapy.

www.physicaltherapybiz.com/apply

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] Hey, real quick before we get started, head over to Facebook and join the PT entrepreneurs Facebook group. If you haven't done so yet, we have monthly live trainings going on there. There's an opportunity for you to join in the conversation instead of just listening to what I have to say on this podcast, as well as the people that I bring on.

And it's a really cool place to join about 6, 000 other clinicians that are. Honestly, trying to change the landscape of our profession through these cash and hybrid practices. One other thing that's really cool is we have a guide in there. That's a quick start guide. When you join, you can go and check this out.

There's about seven videos that we've curated that are the most common questions we get in the best case studies that we've found to really help you start, grow, and scale your practice up to seven figures. So if you haven't done so yet, head to Facebook request to join the PT entrepreneurs, Facebook group.

You have to be a clinician. We're going to check you out. We don't just let anybody in. But if you are head there, go ahead, get signed up. We'd love to have the conversation with you in that group.

So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't want to see 30 patients a [00:01:00] day who don't want to work home health and have real student loans, create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about. This is the question and this podcast is the answer. My name is Danny Matei and welcome to the PT entrepreneur

Jeremy: podcast.

Danny: What's going on guys. Doc Danny here with the PT entrepreneur podcast. And today we got Jeremy DuPont back on from patch and we're talking about Marketing what's working, what are we seeing that's working in real time? Um, you know, we get a chance to be behind the scenes of a lot of, uh, a lot of, uh, cash based practices, hybrid practices that are, uh, effectively doing a bunch of different marketing techniques, uh, and, and layer, then layering them in together, uh, [00:02:00] and really scaling through new acquisition, as well as reactivating people in a really positive way.

Right. And really, um. On brand way, I should say, right? So being doing a good job of not burning your people out, but getting them to come back and see you. So, you know, I think it's helpful to sit down with people that are really in it and see what's working. Hopefully share that with you guys. You can figure out.

All right, cool. Maybe I can apply some of this to myself. And if you're a little bit more on the time poor side, maybe someone we could help you with and actually have this done for you instead of you haven't tried to figure out by yourself. But if you want to figure it out, we're going to talk about exactly what is working and what we're seeing.

So, uh, Jeremy. Thank you. Why don't we do this, man? Uh, let's, let's start with movies. I just watched. I saw the Barbie movie a few weeks ago. This may not be relevant to cash practices, and I know we were talking off podcast. You haven't seen it, right?

Jeremy: I have not seen it

now,

Danny: but

Jeremy: you have seen their marketing.

I've seen the marketing though. Yeah. That's it. I mean, how could you not? It's all over the place.

Danny: It's everywhere. So, so I was digging into what they're, what they've been doing a little bit. [00:03:00] And I thought this was fascinating. The budget for the movie is 145 million, which sounds like a lot of money, right?

The marketing budget was 150 million. So they actually spent more on marketing. Then they did the entire movie, which is not typically the case, right? The other thing is they've been marketing this movie now for 24 months. So, you know, if you've seen it, whatever you think about it, I don't really care one way or another.

If you think it's the greatest movie ever, if you think it's terrible, uh, it's, it's grossed a billion dollars in the first 17 days that it's. Been released, like that's crazy. The, there's a few movies that are faster than that, but I'll give you a good example. Like the second avatar, uh, it grossed a billion dollars and I want to say 13 days, but it had a budget to film that was 460 million, right?

So it actually costs what? Three, three times more than what the Barbie movie costs. And it grows close to the same amount in the same amount of time. And the other thing that's really interesting is on the back of this, I'd be [00:04:00] interested to see what Mattel's. Toy sales look like what their apparel sales look like, what, what, like all the stuff that they license looks like, but I'm guessing it's probably going to be exponential increase in terms of visibility and people buying this stuff.

So, um, you know, it got me thinking because they took what was considered more of a non traditional route. You know, I think most people, they look at. Cost per click is this and, you know, this number of new people is this or whatever, uh, buy a billboard. And I mean, they were painting houses pink and like literally putting life size Barbie boxes that people could take pictures in at movie theater so that it would go viral on, you know, social media.

And I just, I find it fascinating. It's like. Man, like what things do you see from stuff like that, that you think people could do in the lens of what we're talking about with like local brick and mortar, you know, health and wellness businesses to really, you know, take, take something from kind of what they saw success with and maybe apply it to these local businesses.

Jeremy: Yeah. It's like that classic gorilla marketing approach, right? It's like, how [00:05:00] can we think outside of the normal of just like the standard paid ads, or, you know, here's like these like very traditional marketing routes, like what. Where's like the, the awe or like the shock factor to it. And we actually did this in, uh, Boston.

Uh, when I first opened the clinic up, there's, um, you know, there's like scaffolding and construction sites all over Boston. And we like, if anyone knows, uh, my clinic, uh, ripple, uh, we have like very specific branding. And we like, um, we took these, like, it's like a, it's like a movie theater poster basically.

And, um, it's like, you create this, uh, like almost like glue and you can stick them to these like scaffolding, like wooden boards. There's advertising all over the city that does something like that. So we created like a really cool, um, like ripple eyes poster basically, and just like slapped them all across the city.

And it didn't say we're a physical therapy clinic or didn't say like, um, you know, [00:06:00] it didn't say we were, um, you know, looking for new patients or anything like that. It was just like, it's like, what is this? Like, what is it? What is this? Like steel, like ripple logo all over the place. Like what's going on here.

And, you know, you know, I think directly maybe it didn't convert at all for us, but people are like, Oh wait, like when they came into the clinic, it's like, I recognize that from somewhere. Like, where do I recognize that coloring and the, those, those ripples basically. It's like, oh yeah, like way back during COVID, like.

We had this stuff all over the place. And so I think like, you know, that's the, I love that stuff. Like diving into this, um, you know, just other thought process of, of marketing is really cool. We do something in the clinic too, where we had this, um, you walk into like our back room and we just have this one big teal wall, it's like the ripple, like teal green.

And, um. You know, people take pictures of it in social media. Um, it's almost like that, that pink wall that they have in Los Angeles where everyone goes and takes pictures in [00:07:00] front of it, right? It's like, what can you do to start to create just a little bit of buzz around your clinic? And I think that's, I mean, that's what the movie did so well, right?

Everything was pink all over the place. You walk to, to a mall or a movie theater, everyone's wearing pink. There's, you know, pink all over the place. So I think like, you know, to that scale, it's obviously like tricky for us to do, but you can do little things like that, whether it's in your clinic or in the local community, um, to, to, I think it really, what you're trying to do is like, create some buzz, right.

Create some brand awareness around what you're trying to do. So they did a really good job with it, obviously.

Danny: I think there's, I think the difference is right. There's I guess they fall underneath each other, but like there's what I consider sort of direct marketing. Right. Like we talk a lot about that.

And then there's more like branding and the biggest companies in the world, they actually focus heavily on branding because you know, they want it. They don't want people to forget who they are, you know, like Coca Cola every Christmas. [00:08:00] What is Coca? What is, what a freaking polar bears have to do with, uh, a soda and Christmas, right?

Like. Nothing. I can't even figure out how they relate to each other that polar bear would rip your face off. First of all, and then, you know, and Santa's over there with a Coca Cola. He might drink it. I don't know. You know, I have to ask my kids what they think. And I drink milk and cookies. So, but that's what they've done.

And now it's all over the place, right? Like it's every Christmas, you know, that's that that's coming. And that's a branding thing that they created, right? For you. Yeah. Maybe it's like, Every year you create new posters for ripple that are, you know, you put out and then every year people, they start to see that and they're like, I wonder what the new one is going to be, you know, this year or whatever it is.

It's something that's creating brand. Um, or even I see there's a lot of people in Atlanta that. Uh, it's, it's a big street art city, so there's street art all over the place. It's, it's not illegal, you know, there's obviously like, there's certain places you can do it and there's some permitting stuff or whatever, but it pretty much like any side of the building, you can pretty much get a [00:09:00] permit to have street art on.

Right. So you could hire somebody to create street art that had something to do with your business that was like really engaging and cool. And like, yeah, people are taking pictures in front of that, or they see it and they associate. They may never come in to see you. Right. But. Then again, they might, or they might see something about that.

And they're like, Oh, I recognize it from this. And it's all about these like multiple touch points that I think are, are really fascinating. Um, the last one I would say, and this is top of mind for me because tomorrow, so this is Thursday today, but tomorrow I'm going to the Beyonce concert in Atlanta, which is going to be nuts.

Like I've only been to one before and this was years ago and it was and they did like this, like tour together, but dude, that is. So that's a crazy environment. And I ha I think that whoever her marketing team is, is some of the smartest marketers I've ever seen ever. Like to give you an example, before they do a concert, they release a peril that is specific [00:10:00] that people will buy and pay a lot of money for to wear just to the concert.

And it's like very, it's like stuff you would never really wear probably anywhere else, but they're selling a shitload of it. And they partner with people like Adidas or whatever. And like, they have these brand deals and then who knows how much they make off of the actual, like, you know, apparel side of it, or people taking that and sharing it on social media.

And it just, it's just all about sort of like, how can you create these? Things that trigger people to want to be a part of that in some way. Right. Um, and they just like, they kill it, they kill it. I, I, you know, I go to a killer's concert and I don't see, I don't see them doing that shit, right. There's probably selling a lot of apparel there, but it's not even close to the same intentionality that they use, you know, with some of these bigger, bigger

Jeremy: concerts, you know, It's like the Taylor Swift, like this heiress tour, right?

Like, Oh yeah. Like, that's like, that's, that's a harder ticket to get than like any World Series Stanley Cup ticket. Like, it's more expensive, right? But obviously people are going to see Taylor Swift, Taylor Swift's like this [00:11:00] icon, but it's the whole experience around her as I didn't, I didn't go to the concert at all, but it's.

Yeah. People are all, you know, you get dressed up for it. You're prepping for this event. You're, you're, you're, you're bought into the brand of Taylor Swift in this tour. And it's this huge thing on social media. Um, if, you know, cash based clinics can even like channel 0. 01% of that, like we're crushing it, right?

Like there's. Um, if you can like, and I, and I think like just having that thought process to have the, the Barbie or, you know, these mega celebrities of like, they are obviously doing something very right. It's like, how can we channel even a little bit of that to our marketing? It's like a lot of that.

It's like, you don't have to pay for a lot of that stuff too. Right. It's like, it's just, you're just building a brand you're building, uh, whether it's just trust, um, with, with your audience or your local community. It's, you know, how are you. How are you getting all that stuff out? Basically.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's about being creative.

There's a reason why they're called creative agencies. You know, if you, if you ever [00:12:00] watch, um, like mad men is such a good show. If you want to kind of like, uh, really dive deep on marketing and this is like marketing before, you know, the internet, obviously. Right. This is like, I think you said in like the fifties and.

You know, they have like their billboards and their jingles and all the stuff that they have, but it's like evoking an emotion in some way is like what the intent is. So the, I think that what, what in the marketing side of things from what I've seen, like we lose the idea that creativity is needed and for you to spend a little extra time thinking about like, Hmm, like what could I do?

And especially if you can, if you can do an exercise, maybe where you sit there and you're like, okay, I've only got 500 bucks. Like, what can I do with 500 that is non digital? Let's just say at this point, because you, let's say you want to diversify from some of the maybe things you're doing on the digital side.

Uh, what can you do? You know, sit down, maybe with your team. Sit down with your team and do this exercise and be like, hey, we got 500. Like, what can we do? [00:13:00] You know, someone might be like, well, let's give 500 to this guy and just see if he sends a bunch of people our way. Okay, maybe that's a great idea. Or maybe it's posters.

Or maybe it's, you know, we make, uh, you know, uh, we, we get our best clients and we make them like, You know, custom apparel stuff that we give to them and, uh, really improve your, your customer experience. And then, and especially people that, you know, are great referral sources and they just spew their information on everybody.

And they're wearing their hoodie everywhere they go. Like, what could you do? And I think you need to be creative. And in many cases, I think you need to have the time and the mental bandwidth to even like, think about it. Like how many people do we work with that are just so time poor and just stress that they don't even have.

They don't have an hour to sit down with their team and even like think, what could we do?

Jeremy: Yeah. A lot of people, uh, you know, I, for, for ripple, I was very consistent on our newsletter, sending that out once a week, like being very, um, you know, very, being very stringent about that. And so many people ask me, that's like one of the first things I start talking to people about when like impact is like, forget [00:14:00] about all of this fancy automation and paid ads.

Like you got to send a weekly newsletter out. You've got. 500, 000 people on this list, um, and they're big is like, what do I say every week? It's like, just talk about what's going on right now or talk about the Barbie movie and how it relates to PT or like, there's, there's something you can talk about.

And I think like the exercise I used to do was, you know, I would wake up, uh, one morning and I would just kind of sit and like give myself 30, 45 minutes to think about like, what, what is going on right now? Spring is a winter. Like what are people in the clinic dealing with currently? Um, and just talk about that stuff.

And it doesn't have to be this, uh, MLA cited newsletter every time. It's like, it just should be conversational tone. It should be, um, very easy. And, um, you know, I think that's, you know, just, just, it's low hanging fruit. And that's, that's really what, uh, what you got to lean into. I think,

Danny: I think that's a really good way to look at it.

And I noticed the thing early on with [00:15:00] people, right. Um, A lot of people will, they'll do like, you know, sort of three part, uh, email. That's very easy to put together. So maybe it's, maybe it's a piece of content that they thought was relevant. It's a, maybe a piece of content that they wrote and maybe it's a quote or it's something that they're highlighting and it could be other people stop and it could be really easy to do that, right?

So you send these three things out with a call to action somewhere in there. And that's fine. It's definitely better than not doing anything. What I find, uh. Works better. And this is what we do. PT Biz is, you know, we send, uh, three emails out every single week. So the first one is on Monday, which is a content wrap up of all the stuff that we've done, because we have lots of content we put out every single week.

Not everybody's going to do that. So it's not necessarily necessary to do that unless you're just pumping out a bunch of content. We have a client win Wednesday, every single Wednesday, we highlight a social proof, you know, message that we got about somebody that [00:16:00] has a win in their business. And we share that and it's, that is probably the most opened email, the most, uh, effective email that we sent, right?

Like that is something that is super straightforward and it just leads to a call to action. That's like, Hey, if you're interested in getting help on this, like this person. Let us know, right? Like that's a call to action. Very straightforward. But if anything, I think it's very helpful for people to see that other people are having success in the thing that maybe they don't even think they can do.

So it allows them to see what other people are doing and build confidence towards that. Um, and then the last one is the hardest one for me to write. And it's what you're talking about. It is, yeah. I call it the story lesson framework, right? So it's a story of some sort, the lesson I learned from it, uh, in regards to how that applies to, to business in this case with PT biz, and then a call to action that has to intertwine with that somehow.

And I've written a weekly email. [00:17:00] For this for years at this point. Right. And I did it before for our practice where I would take usually was a patient interaction. It was like what I learned this week from a patient, you know, and then and then I would tie that into a breakthrough they had of some sort and then a call to action and it was plain text conversationally written.

Always, always did better. Um, and it was more shared. People will share that stuff more depending on what you write. Cause sometimes you're gonna, you'll write stuff and it doesn't hit home with anybody. But sometimes you write stuff and it's like, damn, I'm getting a bunch of responses on this. Like this, I hit something here that maybe I didn't realize.

Uh, but, but you don't know until you start getting effort. So if you're, if you're like what Jeremy says, highly recommends. A weekly email that is more conversational and those are harder to write for sure, but you got to start sometime. It's one of the better things you can do on the marketing side. And if you can follow this sort of story lesson call to action, you know, like I went and saw the Barbie movie with my family.

The movie was not as good as other movies I've seen, but why is it? Why is it [00:18:00] generating a billion dollars? It's not, uh, you know, Shawshank Redemption or it's like some amazing award winning movie in my opinion. Like there's other movies that I would find, uh, more interesting, but it's killing it. Why? Like, what is it about this?

Oh, here's what I saw on the marketing side. This, this, this, this, and this. Have you thought about implementing this into your practice? If you want help working on the marketing side, we work with businesses all over the world. Click this button. Let's chat with our team. Boom. All of a sudden I got, maybe I'll write that for tomorrow.

So if you, if you're listening to this, you've already read that email. That's what I did. All right. And that's the email. So you got to think about like how these things intertwine and it is kind of hard to do if you don't have the time to sit down and think about it. Yeah. And I think

Jeremy: that's the biggest thing is like, just plug it into your day is think time.

I think that's, that's one of the most important things you can do with marketing is just to sit down and think about, you know, cause everyone, every demographic is different. Every location in the U S is different, right? It's, um, you know, what, what is your. Population dealing with right now, [00:19:00] what's going on, like in Maine, it's been cold.

And I know for you guys, it's been 120 degrees down there. So it's like, I can't, uh, like, so I can't relate to people in Georgia right now, but I can relate to my local market. So it's, you know, just, just plugging in that time to sit down and do that, that thing time of how many evals have we had this month?

Are we trying to drive more evals or are we trying to keep people around a little bit more? What is the purpose? And I think that goes into like a quarterly plan. Um, you know, everything should be pretty planned out in terms of, you know, what the goals are this quarter. Uh, what does your marketing plan look like?

What is the marketing strategy? And you're that just makes your like something as simple as a newsletter. It makes it easier to write. Cause it's like, I know this is what I'm trying to accomplish this quarter. Here are the six to eight newsletters. I'm going to write to try to accomplish this. I'm just going to help guide you.

And then plugging in, like I said, just that, that downtime, which is so hard for us to do, but just go for a walk, just plug something in like that. [00:20:00] And you'll be surprised at how easily that stuff starts to come up. And it just gets easier over time

Danny: too. And I think part of it too is like, uh, it's hard, it's easier for some people, harder for other people.

Right. Um, and what I find is people that are very, um, they're very analytical. They're very sort of systems driven and, um, they're great. Like they, that can lead to becoming a great clinician because you're very thorough and you're very organized that tends to not necessarily go hand in hand with somebody that's a bit more creative that that can sort of See these connections between things and then be able to convey that message to people in a, in a way that makes sense.

Um, so they might be different skill sets, right? But it doesn't mean that you can't improve them. I'm not the most thorough organized clinician in the world, right? But like I had to. Through frameworks of what worked for me, be able to build in structure. Otherwise, otherwise I'm just in there. I'm just talking to somebody.

And [00:21:00] then what we're just like, well, I don't know, maybe your backers because of this, let's give it a try. You know, like that's not, there's not a lot of success that's going to come for that. So if you're thinking, oh, well, I'm more on this side and I'm more organized and whatever, like I struggle with that, that's cool.

That doesn't mean that. That doesn't mean that you can't get better at it. And if we really look at what's best for your practice, sales and marketing is the lifeblood of every business. You know, you got to be able to get people interested in working with you, and you got to be able to get them to commit to actually working with you.

And that is something that whether you like it or not, if you are an amazing clinician and you have amazing clinicians that work with you. Then if you're not doing this, you're leaving a lot of opportunity to help other people on the table. So whatever lens you have to look at that through to be able to say, okay, I'm going to learn this new skill and you can learn a new skill.

You have gone through a lot of school. You've learned a lot of shit, right? Like you, you understand the skill of learning. You just need to apply it to something that maybe makes more sense. But I would say to [00:22:00] give people an idea, and maybe this will help them with just a general idea of organizing themselves, because I think it can be challenging to think.

Well, what, what marketing plan should I have? Right? Like, what, what does that look like? What would you say the core elements of like a well put together marketing plan, you know, for a year would look like for like a cash based or like hybrid practice?

Jeremy: Yeah, I think it's, I think it's gotta be a combination of everything for, with, uh, especially with a cash based, uh, clinic needs.

I think it's, it's very easy to get sucked into, I'm just going to do a bunch of paid ads, or I'm going to try to automate all this stuff. And I think. It's easy for us to lose sight of like how personal and one on one our business actually is, regardless of what scale you get to. Um, so I think, you know, every quarter there's gotta be some sort of deal or campaign or something going on.

And you can, like, you can dress that up to say whatever it is that you want to be. It doesn't have to necessarily be a, an open [00:23:00] enrollment, super popular, or, you know, patient reactivation campaign. I think everything is always going to be centered around. a reactivation campaign, but you can just call it something different every time you do it.

And I think like something like that, you shouldn't run once a year. You should be running that four times a minimum, um, each year. And cause you're getting new people in the door, um, through, you know, Local networking events or people filling out forms on your website or whatever. And maybe you're always getting new people in your list.

And like, you know, an email you sent a year ago, people aren't going to remember that email. So you can, you can change that email just a little bit and people are going to be like. You know, they're not gonna have any idea like I think we over index on stuff like that a lot too. So, you know, kind of copying a lot of the the content that you put together can be a really successful way.

So I think, you know, at minimum, there's got to be four of these quarterly. Campaigns that are going out with some sort of discount and deal. It's just this low entry [00:24:00] offer. Um, I really find a lot of success with, um, reactivating people at a, at a low, uh, eval price point, almost like a reevaluation, something like a 50 eval to get them back in the door, and then we can sell them a full price package after that, afterwards.

I'll eat that, um, the difference from the, the, the normal eval price to the 50 eval price every single time. If they're purchasing a package afterwards and. I have enough trust in my, my staff members to sell those packages as well. I know that they're going to sell at a 70, 80% clip. Um, you know, always. So I'm happy to do like this 50 eval.

I think a lot of people shy away from something like that, um, just because they're taking a hit on the front end, but what you see in lifetime value for clients, like far outweighs that. So creating one of those campaigns every quarter is, um, You know, just a really easy way to reactivate old, old patients.

Um, and then you get into a lot of the local networking stuff, um, setting up [00:25:00] injury screens. Those, you know, have been crushing it recently. Um, but you know, with something like these local workshops. I think a lot of people get bogged down by them because there are a lot of work and usually they're not during working hours and it's a Thursday evening till 9 p.

m. or a Saturday morning at 7 a. m. And you don't want to have to do one of those every single week for a whole year. Right? So if you can be really strategic and do it once a month or every other week, um, but putting the systems on behind one of those events where it's someone comes in for this injury screen.

But then you never follow up with them again, there's got to be a systemized approach to that afterwards, where you have an email campaign going out to them afterwards, if somebody interacts with those emails, you should be personally following up with those people. So understanding if somebody clicks on your call to action that you have in that email.

You should be tracking that stuff, however it is. And you should personally send that person a text like, Hey, um, you [00:26:00] know, I know you came in for the injury screen. How's the hip feeling? We'd love to get you in for this 50 eval. And. You know, a lot of people don't convert on these emails, like directly, they, they open the email, they click the call to action, they fill out the form, they purchase right there, they schedule themselves.

That's like best case scenario. A lot of times where these come into play is you see that they're highly interacting with your emails, and then you're doing the personal follow up with those people afterwards. And that's, again, like, we're not. We're not so big that we can't do that stuff. Like you've got to find the time to follow up these people.

So mixing in one of those, um, you know, once a month is, is huge. That's how you get new people in the door. That's how you continue to nurture your, your networking relationships. And then I think the biggest thing is just understanding who your lost patients are. You should have a list of people who haven't been in the door in the last 30 days.

Um, they haven't in the last 60 days, 90 days. And, you know, [00:27:00] If someone hasn't been in in 60 days and they still have sessions remaining on their package, you should be constantly following up that person to try to get them in the door. Um, because, you know, this is a lot of what I preach and I think why Ripple does such a good job in continuity sales, like second package sales, is we are making sure that Everybody is fulfilling on the first package that they come in for.

If they buy 10 sessions, they're coming in for 10 sessions because I can't sell them continuity unless they actually fulfill on that first package. So keeping a list, however, manual that may be, um, it can be super automated, um, through something like a CRM, or it can be very manual or you're just pulling out data and updating it on your Google sheet, I think at least having some visibility in that it's huge.

Um, but if you do those three things, like. Paid stuff probably isn't necessary and you don't need to do all these other fancy things. Um, you know, I think those are, those are the three biggest things right there.

Danny: Yeah. And I think paid, you know,[00:28:00]

sometimes I feel like it sounds like we're not the biggest fan of it, but. I feel like people need to earn the right to do it because from what I've seen, and this was a mistake I made early on too. I've hired three different marketing agencies for our local practice. And, you know, we just didn't, it didn't go well whenever we started marketing digitally, when we started doing paid ads, because first of all, it is hard.

For a company that doesn't understand our industry to do ads for that, right? So if you have a company that's basically just a big agency, that's doing these sort of copy and paste ads for all different types of businesses, they don't know what to say. They don't know what you're looking for the same way.

So that's, that's a challenge. Um, the other thing is early on, you may not have much of a reputation. Right. You may not have much social proof via reviews of your business or people that have worked with you that understand that like, yeah, this business is really good. Like you should go see them. [00:29:00] So you're going to have a higher cost, uh, per person that ends up becoming a client advertising.

Because of that, then if you had, you know, a hundred Google reviews that said how awesome you were, because that's the first thing they're going to look at if they see your ad on Google, right? It's not, it's like, of course we would love if it's just, they see this ad, they click it, they sign up for this, they pay for everything.

They show up like that is such a small fraction of people that actually convert digitally. It just doesn't work that way. It's like very rare. Think of yourself, right? Think about how quickly you can be interrupted and you're onto the next thing. Or, or in our case. People that are injured and they lose motivation, right?

They're like, like, I'm like, they're close, right? Yeah. Do you want to get my, my knees been bugging me, but they don't know what to expect. They don't know if it's going to hurt. They don't know, you know, if how much time it's going to take. They're busy. And all of a sudden they back out. Right. It doesn't mean they don't need our help.

So those people drop off. If you're not following [00:30:00] up with them in some way, like you're talking about, like manually, and they could still be very interested. They open a blog, you know, a post you write about, you know, somebody's knee pain got better. And all of a sudden they open it. They're like, now they're a little bit closer again.

And if you reach out to them, then maybe that gets them across the line. And I always think about people, you know, in terms of, it's either like a plus one or a minus one when it comes to marketing, right? Like. If there's a kink in your sort of system to get somebody in the door, it's like a minus one. You know, it's like, it's like a systems problem.

Well, if you have a great ad that calls out what their problem is and it resonates with them in some way, that's a plus one, but it's not enough to get them across the line. Right? So sometimes that manual outreach or that continued followup, these are like little plus ones, and we don't really know how many points somebody needs to finally come in, but it's probably more than you think, especially if they're very unfamiliar with your brand.

So I think like this well rounded approach of looking at local stuff that you're doing and not burning yourself and your staff out by doing it a time. I did a work. Shop almost every week for the first year. And it's funny. There's, we had an email the other day [00:31:00] and the guy was like, if I work with you guys today, he's going to tell me to do a workshop every week.

I'm like, no, but it does need to be a part of what you're doing. Like if no one knows who you are locally, then you're, you're really not going to do so well, you know, reactivating people in different ways. I love what you were talking about earlier too. Like we can get into in a second, but like having these other reasons to bring people back in.

So reactivating people and then tracking your lost patients. Um, because like you might think like I had this patient that came in twice for a 10 pack and his daughter played soccer. This dude was like very wealthy, very time poor. And I would see him at the soccer field and I would come up to him because I'd be doing triage hours.

I'm like, yo, dude, you got eight visits left on your package. I know. I'm going to come, I'm going to come back in, you know, whatever months, months, I would see this guy. And every time you'd have a reason why he couldn't, he couldn't make it. So I'm too busy, whatever, whatever. And you might think to yourself, okay, you basically just paid a thousand dollars per visit because you only came in twice.

So you're like, I'm killing it. But you're killing yourself on the lifetime [00:32:00] value. Like that guy's not coming back in. Right. So his lifetime value maybe was three, four, 5, 000. And now it's a thousand because he didn't actually finish his plan of care. So I think following up with patients is huge. Um, but I do want to circle back around to reactivating people because you brought up kind of end of season or the beginning of season kind of things and reason why campaigns explain the one you were talking about with like the end of the summer and why you think that like resonates with people, at least from a marketing sense.

Jeremy: Yeah, this has been one of the, um, like, this is, I like, I like smell blood in the water at the end of the summer, almost with our marketing for ripple. It's like, especially, especially in the city, in the city, people like Boston, everyone goes to Cape Cod. Everyone goes to Maine. Everyone's just out of the city for the summertime.

So things get slow for us. And um, You know, we've got a really, um, you know, fight to keep things alive during the summertime, which is supernatural. We all we know it's coming. But once August [00:33:00] starts rolling around, especially, you know, um, like currently right now, people are starting to come back into the city.

Like school sports are starting up like, uh, for Massachusetts. School doesn't start until after Labor Day, but everyone is back like the last week was the big last week of summer vacation camps over. Everyone's kind of back. They're starting to get back into the groove. And you know, it's hard to stay in a routine when you're gone all summer, um, or you're taking multiple vacations or whatever it is.

And Um, you know, for the last two years, we've run it's a, we call like a fresh start campaign and we actually do it for a new year's as well, because this is a very similar, uh, you know, time where I think things just get so crazy for people in December that once the new year rolls around, obviously you have resolutions and all that stuff, but it's, you know, we call it this fresh start.

Um, and I think, you know, spring is one that people just probably don't think about too much. But that, that shift in lifestyle [00:34:00] and even thought process of pre labor day and post labor day is huge. It's like, like I said, soccer's back, kids are playing football, whatever it is, but you're just way, uh, you're just in a, in a much more regular routine.

Uh, you're not. packing the car up to go places, uh, whatever it is. So, uh, we frame that as, Hey, listen, like you enjoyed your summer. That's awesome. We did too. No big deal. Um, but now is the time to, you know, you've been saying you're going to put your running shoes back on for all of August and you haven't, because you've got this nagging knee injury or your back hurts or whatever it is.

Um, you know, A cash based PT is a perfect person to transition you back into the health and wellness world, whether it is like you've had this like pretty serious back pain for the last couple of months and you really haven't been able to do anything. Or instead of working out five or six times a week, you're only working out once because time has been super limited and you are dealing with [00:35:00] these injuries.

And, you know, we look at it as this combo of, you know, depending on where you're if you're You're in pain and you need more of that traditional PT. We can help you with that, but we also position ourselves as this coach almost, or this guide that now, wherever you are, if you're just trying to get back into a strength routine and you have these little niggles, um, we can help you with that too, like we can relook at your form and we can write a program for you.

Um, this is somebody who should be helping you overlook your. Your health and wellness programs anyway. So we always talk like quarterbacking your health, right? People are, that mindset is shifting to becoming healthy again once September rolls around. Um, and we, we run again, like this low entry eval and, um, We do like a discounted package sometimes as well, which, which plays pretty well.

But the key with this ride is like, we started at the beginning before Labor [00:36:00] Day happened. So like next week, this campaign starts rolling out. So you start, it's like, Hey, remember me, what's going on. Um, and then it's, you know, because the way we frame it in our copy is like the Thursday before Labor Day weekend, we send an email that says, Do your post Labor Day self a favor and schedule an eval today.

Go and enjoy your Labor Day weekend afterwards. And then, you know, on Tuesday after Labor Day, you've got an appointment on the books. You're not trying, you're not wasting another week trying to figure out, uh, crap. Like I gotta sign up for this gym, or I gotta find a trainer, or man, I gotta go to my doctor to get a script for PT.

It's like, you already have all this taken care of. You can do your weekend, um, and enjoy it as you should. Um, but. We just position ourselves as like, Hey, let's take care of this now before all of this. And then once September hits and Labor Day is over, you can hit the ground running. So those play really, really

Danny: well for us.

That's so smart. Um, and [00:37:00] you like this idea of a marketing runway. Like if you're looking at, especially email marketing, which I think a lot of people are like, Oh, I don't know if people open emails anymore. It still works. Like it still works very well there. Did you have to give them a reason to open it?

Right? Like you can't be a crappy. Email marketer anymore, uh, because somebody's just so excited they actually got an email, right? This isn't, uh, you know, Gmail. Gmail didn't just get started and you had like one thing in your inbox. It, it's, you got, I've got three emails from my kids' school this morning, right?

So like, like, think about that. That's, everybody's in inbox is crazy. So you gotta give them a reason to want to read your stuff. That's where we're talking about, you know, these more. Uh, story based frameworks for newsletters or highlighting client wins or whatever. You have things that are really in a lot of ways, it's, it's like that point system, right?

You're like kind of, it's like a plus 0. 25 or something like that. It's not a whole point. It's a little bit of a point, but those add up. And then when you start to do these [00:38:00] email marketing campaigns around reactivation campaigns, you're giving yourself a longer runway. Like I've made the mistake of doing this super short.

We're like, okay, we're got, we're going to do this next week. We'll email everybody Friday before. And just the, the week of, and it always bombs. And then we think we're like, man, what did we do wrong? You know? And the problem was we didn't give ourself a long enough runway for people to start to even like come to the conclusion that that's something you need to do.

So yeah, like the idea of, Hey. Go have a great time, but schedule your visit before you go. Like that's the great idea because in a lot of ways. You're, it's, it's logical, right? It's okay. It's almost like, Marla, they're saving me some time. I know I need to do this, you know, and especially if you're like, go ahead and book it now so that because our schedule will be full by the time that, you know, you wait, uh, and then you have some scarcity built in and then, you know, it will work so, so much better.

And this is the challenge. I think if [00:39:00] you're listening to this and you're a clinician. And you busted your ass to become a great clinician. You know, Jeremy and I could be really shitty clinicians and really just frankly, bad people, but we can get way more people. I'm not saying we are, I'm just saying that could be, that could be possible, but let's say that's the case, but we're gonna get all these people in our office that maybe we suck and they're not in your office.

Because you're a great clinician and you don't know how to market and sell. And it's a damn shame when I see that I, I think it's, I think it, it sucks. And I see great marketers and great salespeople out there all time with inferior services, inferior. Give a fuck about other people, you know, skill sets, and yet they're kicking your ass in business because they know how to actually run a business and get clients.

So if you're not learning this stuff. It's at the detriment, not just of your own business, but of the people that are going the wrong places. Like I always would think about that when I would be frustrated with this stuff, trying to learn it. It's just like, man, who's out there that doesn't know what to do with their, you know, hip problem [00:40:00] that wants to get back to running or squatting.

Like I can help them. They just don't know I exist. And that would give me a lot more motivation to keep trying to learn and grow. Totally. Yeah. I

Jeremy: was, uh, you know, before I started the ripple, I worked as a personal trainer, I went to the big box gyms in the city and I had taken these PRI courses, I was getting my like massage therapy degree, I was doing FRC with everyone.

And like, there's trainers there that were just doing bicep curls with their, with their, with their clients. And I was like, I'm such a better trainer than these people. They are booked out for weeks. They're seeing 40 people a week. Like, and I think that's where my switch started to flip. I was like, I'm doing this all wrong.

Like, it's good. Like I'm giving a good product, but, um, you know, I got still doing some bicep curls because the biggest thing here is like, if you look the part, then you're going to get. Get clients and, you know, you lean into the, the content and social media sides of things. So, um, yeah, I think it's, you, you've got to do, um, you know, [00:41:00] you can't, you don't have to fully sell out.

Right. But just have some fun with the marketing. I think that's where, when I stopped caring about every little punctuation and word, and just kind of like, you know, for lack of a better word, let things fly and just like really leaned into this, uh, conversational copy. I think that's where my marketing really started to take off because people are related to it.

Danny: And I think that for a lot of us, and I know I felt this way, uh, when you start to market or sell, like I felt very, I felt bad about selling, uh, what I was doing. I felt very nervous about it. I felt like I was like doing something wrong because I think deep down, I knew I would work with people for free.

If I could, I liked it that much. I just get so much personal satisfaction out of like. Helping somebody achieve a goal that they have, like, dude, there's no better feeling than helping somebody that literally, like, can't pick something up without pain, including their kids, get back to doing stuff and the confidence that comes along with that [00:42:00] without any pain or at a minimum management of that and knowing how to deal with it themselves long term and empowering them and how to do that right and like the personal satisfaction from that is worth the job.

That's why so many people I think go this route But yet I felt conflicted with something that I knew people valued and I just didn't really understand why and it was because, you know, I, I, I think we all have sort of the servant sort of heart of why we get in the profession and it kind of is incongruent with business because it's for profit, not necessarily, you know, doing for free, but, but dude, you got a mortgage, you got to buy groceries and not only that, but like, why can't you have both?

Why can't you be a great, you know, provider of this service really care about people and. Make, make a good living by doing it. So it took me a while to figure that out. And on the marketing side, I would always feel bad because I felt like, well, man, if I start marketing really hard, people are going to view me differently.

They're going to view me not as this, like. Uh, you know, clinician [00:43:00] that is just very, very purely focusing on trying to help people get better. They're going to think that I'm, I'm like trying to sell them something, but guess what? I was trying to sell them something and it was the ability for me to help them get the result that they wanted.

So I think you have to take, you have to take a different view, maybe like a different lens in which you're looking at what you're doing. And you might feel, uh, like it's not a natural thing for you to do, but that's also because you don't know what you're doing. And maybe you've even had bad experiences with people that are really aggressive marketing and sales or whatever.

And you kind of take that over with you, but as soon as you get out of your own way, I think we have to realize is just how many people you can actually help. And especially as we build these businesses, you can't, you cannot scale past yourself. With no sort of marketing whatsoever, because even if you're an amazing clinician, here's, what's going to happen.

You're going to get people that are saying that they need to come and see you. And then as soon as you hire somebody else. They're going to say, well, I don't want to see that person because so and so said, I [00:44:00] need to see you. So now you've trapped yourself in this like referral marketing just to you. And no one else wants to see anybody else because they don't know they have a company.

They just know you. And so you've, that's fine. That's better than not having any patients, but you've got to grow past yourself in order to do that. You have to have some sort of repeatable marketing. To drive predictable patient volume so that you can actually hire people that are really good clinicians to let them work their magic with these people in person and be amazing at what they do and have predictability in their schedules.

And then continue to do that for as many people as you want to do, right. As you grow your business. So you got to get over it. If you're anything like me, I know it sucks. It's hard, but like, it's not a problem with marketing and sales. It's a problem with how we view how we're using it.

Jeremy: Yeah. And I think that's where like the, even the paid ad conversation comes into play.

And I think, like you said, like we, I think paid ads is, uh, like something that you have to earn, like you said, but I don't want people to get the wrong idea. They're like, Ripple was built on paid ads as well. Like we very much lean into that. Um, so it is a big [00:45:00] part of what our marketing campaign is, but.

When we started leaning into paid more, there was a big paradigm shift for me. And I, and I felt I dealt with that as well of, you know, we're getting way more cold leads in the door. And I felt like I was people that were reaching out to me that I was having phone conversations with. They weren't looking for a cash based physical therapist.

They weren't like under the like pretense of like, Oh, this is going to cost me hundreds, thousands of dollars to come in. Like I thought I just went to this clinic. So we struggled with the paid ads for a while. And I had to like almost change my mindset of how I was dealing with these phone calls. Um, because now I am.

Convincing somebody to come in for a couple hundred dollar evaluation and then purchasing a 10 pack of sessions that's going to cost a couple thousand dollars when they thought that they're just going to pay their copay. But as soon as I started to understand and realize that like I'm doing this person a disservice by [00:46:00] not selling them into our service because they're going to go.

Cross the street to the no clinic and get this really poor service and probably not actually have their injury solved. Uh, I got over that pretty quickly and now, you know, I can convince anybody on the phone that they should come and see us versus, you know, the, the hospital clinic across the street. So I think like it's, it's something that you have to get over in stages.

I'm sure at first it's selling the in person package, then it's. Selling over the phone. And now when, if you get, if you earn the right to, to get a lot of this, uh, colder, colder, um, you know, leads that are coming in the door, that's a whole other ball game that you have to start understanding how to sell these people and get them to understand the difference between cash and, uh, traditional insurance based PT, and that's, that's a huge hurdle.

Danny: Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I think it's what most people do. And this honestly, this, we work on this all time, right? Like this is just a small fraction of kind of what, what people need to do [00:47:00] to, to be able to effectively get over that hurdle is they just try to sell all the features and the benefits of like, well, we do one on one for this long.

And then we could do these tech, they can do dry needling. And then our providers are PRI certified. And like, and the people are like, well, that's what you're talking about. Like, how does that have to do with my knee? You know, and. It's going to get further and further and further away from solving the problem, right?

Versus like really knowing what's going on and what they're trying to get back to. And be like, yeah, man, we help people with this all the time. You know, like, well, do you take my insurance? Like, Well, not really. Uh, we can give you a super bill. You might get reimbursed for it, but to be honest with you, you realize your insurance sucks, right?

Like, so does mine. And they'd also don't care about you. Last time I went to the doctor, I went to the dermatologist. I was with her for five minutes and it cost me 350. Like, and I didn't know until I got a bill a month later, that sucks. That will never happen with us. Right. So like, if you can really understand the value that we provide, I actually think of it more like, [00:48:00] like, I always tell people what we really are is just like these really.

Overeducated human body consultants, like we understand the human body really well, especially if you're in pain, right? Like if you're in pain, anybody in our mastermind, I don't have a single problem referring anybody to any person that I work with in that community because I know that they are clinical experts.

They understand what's going on. I don't care what they charge. Like, dude, they're awesome. They're going to help you out. They'll help my mom out. They'll help your grandma out your whatever. It doesn't matter. Cause I know they're amazing what they do, but like, why should they be amazing what they do and get paid 75 a visit by United healthcare, you know, and have to stack now three people together in order for to make that work.

It's just a terrible idea. It's, it's a, and the only reason people do it is because we're forced into it by insurance contracts. Right. So like for us to be able to say. Well, we don't do that. And maybe we can't work with everybody because of it. I'm willing to make that trade off. Like you got to be okay with it on a deep level.

Otherwise your [00:49:00] conviction of why somebody want to come in is you're going to start to doubt that. And then they'll feel that they'll doubt it as well. And then they're off to, you know, something else, which probably is not going to help them as much. So you got to really keep that in mind is that if you're actually trying to help this person, you can't, you can't.

Not learn this stuff because you're not going to be able to help as many people. Your practice isn't going to be as successful. So it's not going to give you as much time and financial freedom. And it's not going to allow you. The biggest thing for me was, uh, was getting to a point where I could hire other clinicians because I always felt like, I was like, you don't want to go over here to this corporate practice and just save all these little PTs that are.

They're trapped in this terrible job. Like come over here, man. It's better over here. Like, you'll like using your, your skillset. It's more sustainable. It's not as much burnout. People are awesome over here. You know, and I just want to do that. And the only way I could do that was to build a business past ourself.

Right? So like, you got to learn the skillset. Otherwise you're just, just stuck. If you're lucky having a busy schedule by yourself.

Jeremy: Yeah, I think that's exactly it. And it's, if you have any. Inclination or you want to grow and [00:50:00] scale, like, you know, this is a whole, we're opening up a whole other bag of worms here, but even talking about like discovery calls and kind of like, I just touched on there too.

It's like, I think a lot of people just pass that off to their admin or whoever it is, and it's just like, how you take this, like you talk about lifeblood of the clinic, like these discovery calls, like this is a hot lead and if you're only converting on your, your admins only converting on every other one of those, like.

That you like, there's no way you're going to be able to scale. You're not going to ever be able to do enough marketing to get new people in the door. Um, so there, I think there are certain things that a owner has to own or hire a absolute superstar to take on bigger roles like that. And if you don't have someone like that, then.

Um, you know, I think anyways, people like talking to the owner of the business, like what a nice first touch point for someone is like, Oh, wait, I do like you own the place. Like, cool. Like, here's what's going on. You talk to them for 15, 20 minutes, you kind of spell out why this [00:51:00] costs as much, like what a, what a much better experience, um, than they're getting anywhere else.

So I think that's, uh, it's huge.

Danny: And it's not, um, it is not. Something that you can just pass off and not track either, because, you know, I've seen it work, whether the owner's doing it or somebody else, but. It takes very detailed tracking and it takes, uh, a lot of training with somebody to be able to really do, because you're right, you have the founders advantage, you know, even with PT biz with like, you know, I did every single person we worked with for the first, probably a couple hundred people that we worked with.

I talked to every single one of them and for us to get to a point where we had anybody else having conversations with people you're talking about months, months of like, you're like working with me. Auditing stuff that we're doing. This is how we have these conversations. It's so important because you're right.

It's like such it's the, it is the feeder for the, for the business. And you [00:52:00] have to track that stuff, but you might get to a point, especially if you're running paid ads, where this is your less qualified people, they're going to be less likely to convert. And you have the highest chance of doing it over every single person in your company.

Now you're talking about, let's say it's, you know, 20 people that maybe you're adding with paid ads in a month. Okay. So with that, how many calls are you going to have? Maybe 30, 40, if, if you really are, if your conversion percentage is not great, let's say it's 40. But these are like. 20 minute calls, right?

Like these are not long. So how much of your time, even if it's 30 minutes, you're talking about 20 hours a month of your day. And if, and if you're not seeing patients full time, which you probably shouldn't be, once you grow past yourself and another clinician or two clinicians, then you're telling me that like five hours a week is not worth it for something that is going to make or break your ability to scale with these other channels as well.

I just didn't never understood that. Or maybe you have somebody on your team that is. Uh, [00:53:00] this looking to do maybe a little bit less clinical work, but they're great with sales and these conversations and just having like. A clinician talk to people is a game changer. It's just, it's one step below the owner, but it's definitely more, uh, than, than your admin.

They just can't, they don't have the, the initials, they don't have the degree, right. Or the depth of knowledge of injuries. So pass it off. You're going to do that. Maybe that's the next best step, especially if you're going to be running, running paid ads. So, um, but no dude, listen, yeah, we can get into, I know the whole nother hour of probably talking about discovery calls and all that stuff.

Uh, but I want to wrap this up and summarize kind of what we're talking about, because I think if people can take away, Hey, what should you be focusing on for, you know, sim simplicity sake for a well rounded marketing plan that you can just start to chip away at and implement without taking up your whole.

Weak, right? What would you say those, those big things are?

Jeremy: Yeah, I think it's thinking about the quarterly campaigns. Those are the number one thing that you should at least be, [00:54:00] you know, when you're doing your quarterly plan and you have a marketing strategy, what is this campaign that you're focusing on?

Um, and it's going to depend on where you're at with your business. If you're just starting and you're starting to gain some traction and you've got a couple hundred people in your email list, uh, but you're still. You know, you're still charging 150 a session or whatever it may be. It's like, if you're thinking that, you know, one of your other strategies is you want to raise your prices, then, you know, a price raise campaign might be something that makes sense for you.

Versus, you know, maybe a more, uh, a bigger business, they should think about what season are they in, or do they have the data compiled to do a golf specific campaign this quarter or a golf running swimming one, or whatever it is, that's all, you know, how, how clean is your CRM, how well are you tracking those things, but just having some sort of quarterly campaign and actually executing on it is, yeah.

The [00:55:00] number one thing, um, and the execution pieces being the biggest one, cause it's very easy to put something like that off when you're managing other people or whatever it is, but it's just, you know, blocking that time and making sure you're doing that. So, um, you know, those quarterly campaigns are, are number one.

Um, Tracking and understanding your your lost patients. Those are huge ones. If somebody falls off, they haven't been in the clinic in 30 days, you should be on top of that person and make sure maybe that they're on vacation for a week trying to Figure their life back out for a week. You can give them a little bit of leeway.

Of course, life happens. But as soon as that 30 day markets, you've got to be on top of those people and understanding when can we get them back in, um, that's going to help you reactivate, you know, three or four people every single month by just doing something like that. Um, and then it's these local marketing events and not as simple as just going and doing a local marketing event, but.

Nurturing those people [00:56:00] afterwards, how are you following up with them? What type of content are you putting in front of them afterwards? Um, you know, is it a week of content? And then they kind of go poof into the, into the ether and you never talked to them again. It's, you know, there should be a plan for, for all those.

And if you're doing nothing right now, pick one of those three things and. Execute because again, like you can have these, these grand plans to do all these things, but, um, doing one of them is better than none. So, you know, understanding where you're at business wise and what you have the capacity to do, um, and picking one of those things.

And like I said, just executing on that. It's the biggest thing. Yeah.

Danny: Yeah. And, you know, I would say that's a great place to start. If you're at a point where, you know, you've, you've built your business to a point where you're, you know, past yourself, you have at least another, you know, their clinician, um, and you're looking at, well, maybe I should, maybe I need to, uh, [00:57:00] Leverage other people in order to do this patch, for instance, is a great example of where you can reinvest in your business to help drive effective marketing for these businesses and maybe not have to go do what we did, which was gears of, you know, investing in learning how to do copywriting and marketing and, you know, ads and social media and, and, and all the things that go around.

Actually being able to be an effective marketer, um, and a clinician. And if I had been able to do that early on, I probably wouldn't have learned this stuff because you know, I, like I said, I went through three agencies and then I got frustrated and I go, screw it, you know, and it took me two years of like legitimately being a part of marketing masterminds and, you know, copywriting courses and getting mentorship on this stuff.

And it's, it took me. Almost as long as it took me to get my doctorate, right. Uh, in, uh, in grad school. So it took, it took a lot. So if people are interested in learning more about patch, like where can they go and, and, and, um, you know, get in contact with you guys. [00:58:00] Yeah,

Jeremy: I think it's a, it's a great point. And like, I think what we're doing with patches is awesome because everything I spoke about there, that's actually what we're implementing and what's working.

Um, and just like myself and everyone involved in patch, we have run a successful PT clinic as well. So we can, you know, if we're running ads for you, the ads are not from this like standalone agency that doesn't know anything about PT. It's. We understand the physical therapy landscape and what that copy has to be.

So, um, you can go to the patch system. com, shoot me an email, Jeremy at the patch system. And, um, you know, I'm happy to chat with anybody about what's, what's working right now. Um, I know Danny, we, we kind of hop on and do these every once in a while to talk about that. You know, if there's specifics that you're dealing with in your business, anything along those lines, um, um, you know, I'm having all these conversations with, with everyone and, um, it's been really fun and it's, it's awesome to hear what, what's working for people.

[00:59:00] What's not working for people. What we're finding is working for people. And yeah, I mean, it's a lot easier to, if, if you are a clinician and you want to be a good manager and leader and clinician, it's hard to add that good marketer on top of that too. So, you know, we're helping people do that. Yeah. And it's cool to

Danny: see like.

It's such an interesting, um, sort of lie wheel, I guess is maybe the best way to put it that occurs because, you know, we hit all this. Information about problems and what's working best and best practices and all kinds of stuff from the group that we work with in the mastermind. Right. And then on the marketing side, what we see with patches, like, you know, at this point, you know, like you're running the back end of these things for companies in the range of, I mean, you're talking tens of millions of dollars of revenue that's running to these practices at this point.

And so it. It's a lot of information about, okay, this, this type of a framework. For this is working best here. Now we iterate on it and then we make [01:00:00] it better. And the ability to have that information and in real time, see what's working. It's such an unfair advantage. If you're like, if you're sitting there by yourself trying to figure out what to do, there's absolutely no way you're going to figure it out faster and a more effective way than we are, because we just have far more information and we have far more experience to be able to.

Develop that faster and implement that faster, you know, so something to think about, like if you're, if you are at a stage where you're feeling really time poor, but you know, you got to get your marketing squared away to really scale past yourself more than what you want. Um, it's definitely, I always look at marketing as such an investment in the business.

I wish I would have invested more, honestly, looking back, but it's such a short window where you look at stuff. And like, even me with the initial email marketing, we did, I didn't, I didn't even know I needed to give things a longer runway. So I stopped doing a lot of things that would have probably worked even better.

If I had done them correctly versus I took a stab at it and I was like, okay, nevermind, it's not working. You know, I'm going to go back to this other thing that I know is working better. So something to think about, definitely check it out. Um, if [01:01:00] you're a cash based practice or a hybrid, uh, practice, I mean, that's, that's all we work with.

That's our wheelhouse, right? So, um, you know, hit up Jeremy. And, uh, if you guys like this, let me know too, because it's always cool to like get together, you know, with people that are subject matter experts of what's working and, and hopefully share that. So you can implement things on your own and as well and take what we say and really, uh, apply that to your business and hopefully, you know, help grow it and, and, uh, be more consistent with it.

Right. So if you like it, let me know, but Jeremy man, appreciate your time, dude. Super fun. You're obviously a wealth of knowledge. And I love, I learned plenty of stuff from you today. I got lots of notes.

Jeremy: Thanks, Dan. I appreciate it, man.

Danny: Cool. Alright guys, well hey, thanks so much for listening and uh, we'll catch you next time.

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