E638 | Why You Need A Misogi In Your Life With Joe Szymanek

In this podcast episode, Danny and his friend Joe reunite to dive into Joe's recent adventure as a deckhand on a commercial fishing boat in Bristol Bay, Alaska. Curiosity led Joe to seize the opportunity when his friend's father, who owns a salmon fishing boat, offered him the job.

Despite feeling nervous, Joe embraced the chance to challenge himself by undertaking something arduous. The life of a deckhand entailed enduring physically demanding tasks, uncomfortable sleeping conditions, and even resorting to a bucket as a makeshift toilet.

Amidst the grueling labor, Joe opens up about the mental challenges he faced during periods of boredom and downtime. To ward off monotony, he turned to activities like drawing, letter-writing, and rediscovering past hobbies. Through this experience, he quickly realized how often we take simple comforts, such as entertainment and distractions, for granted.

Joe also delves into the struggle of adapting to an unpredictable work schedule, where fishing periods could start or end without warning. This stark contrast to their previously regimented lives posed a significant challenge for both Joe and his companions. Consequently, Danny and Joe explore the transformative power of such "misogi" experiences that push individuals beyond their comfort zones, fostering newfound appreciation for the little things in life.

Returning home, Joe confronts the arduous task of integrating the lessons learned from his journey while maintaining meaningful relationships with friends and family. Striving for balance, he grapples with avoiding isolation while still embracing the valuable experiences he gained.

Both Danny and Joe emphasize the significance of mindfulness amidst the monotony of daily life, urging listeners to reflect on what they can eliminate or challenge themselves with to attain new perspectives and heightened appreciation for their own lives.

Overall, this episode centers on Joe's gripping account of life as a deckhand, highlighting the mental hurdles he encountered. Moreover, the conversation expands to encompass the importance of pushing oneself beyond their comfort zone, as well as embracing intentional living amidst the routines of everyday life. Tune in to gain valuable insights and inspiration to embark on your own transformative journey.

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Podcast Transcript

Danny: [00:00:00] Hey, real quick before we get started, head over to Facebook and join the PT entrepreneurs Facebook group. If you haven't done so yet, we have monthly live trainings going on there. There's an opportunity for you to join in the conversation instead of just listening to what I have to say on this podcast, as well as the people that I bring on.

And it's a really cool place to join about 6, 000 other clinicians that are. Honestly, trying to change the landscape of our profession through these cash and hybrid practices. One other thing that's really cool is we have a guide in there. That's a quick start guide. When you join, you can go and check this out.

There's about seven videos that we've curated that are the most common questions we get in the best case studies that we've found to really help you start, grow, and scale your practice up to seven figures. So if you haven't done so yet, head to Facebook request to join the PT entrepreneurs, Facebook group.

You have to be a clinician. We're going to check you out. We don't just let anybody in. But if you are head there, go ahead, get signed up. We'd love to have the conversation with you in that group.

So here's the question. How do physical therapists like us who don't want to see 30 patients a [00:01:00] day, who don't want to work home health and have real student loans, create a career and life for ourselves that we've always dreamed about? This is the question. And this podcast is the answer. My name is Danny Matei and welcome to the PT entrepreneur podcast.

What's up guys. Doc Danny here. With the PT entrepreneur podcast. And today we've got a little bit of a different podcast. We're not really talking about business today. We're talking about, uh, doing hard things. We're catching up with a, uh, a long, longtime friend of mine, uh, uh, a prior podcast, uh, uh, cohost of the doc and doc podcast with me as well.

Someone I just really enjoy talking to in general and, uh, learning from. And, uh, so [00:02:00] we're, we're going to catch up with, with my buddy. Joe Shamanek today and learn about a really cool experience that he had this summer that I think we all can, you know, learn something from and and maybe look at experiences in a little different lens.

So, um, Joe, how's it going, man? First of all, like, how's uh, how's life, dude? It's been a minute, probably. What's the last time that you've been on the, on this podcast? you, you wrote the book, right? Was that when it was? Yeah, I can't, uh, I

Joe: was out there doing something with, it was AP where you guys, there was like a There was like a workout with mimosas that you guys were, clinical athlete was kicking off.

So I came out there and was doing stuff with, uh, with, with the clinic. So, but yeah, it's been a minute, dude, we got in, we got into your sauna. We were, we were hanging out in the cold plunge and now

Danny: we're here. So listen, my, cause my brother was in town. I remember that my brother was in town and so was his wife.

And, uh, I'm pretty sure, and my brother listens to this podcast now. It's not something that he ever did before. So I actually have to be careful what I [00:03:00] say. I can't just be talking shit about my brother left and right like I usually do. So Sam goes back and listens to the, I don't actually talk shit about you Sam.

But, in this case, I think, see, I think he had a real man crush on you my friend. Like, he was like, that guy Joe is a cool guy. Uh, I was like, yeah, he is cool. You know, he brought you up a couple more times and I was like, you like Joe, don't you?

Joe: Well, listen, uh, you know, that was a fun trip. I like being there.

Atlanta is a cool city. That was the first time we really got to hang out. You got a lot going on. I mean, we had a good time.

Danny: Atlanta, you know, it's interesting, man. I feel like you can, I can live anywhere, right? Like I've lived a lot of places you've lived a lot of places and it's really what it comes down to is more than anything, the people that are around you.

Um, but dude, there are definitely better places to live than others. Like I'm not going to discount that. Like I've been, I've been a lot of places, especially just, just not, not for a long period of time, but just when I was teaching for mobility, what I was. I was gone a lot and lots of different size towns, different areas.

It's a cool way to see the U [00:04:00] S and one thing that we would always do is like we would teach. We would try to go find, um, a barbecue restaurant. We would just try regional barbecue everywhere, you know, that, uh, Saturday night or whatever, whenever we would teach. And then at the end, uh, I would always be like, could I live here or would I want to live here or not?

Right. And I always sort of like use that as my scale. There's, there's, there's definitely places that I've been that I would want to live in places I wouldn't, but Atlanta is an underrated city, man. It's just, you know, it's. There are a lot of people here are not from here. There's a lot of diversity. Um, it's easy to travel in and out of, you got all the elements of a big city, but man, we can be in the foothills of, of, you know, the start of the Appalachian trail within two hours.

Um, and you can get to the beach within about four and a half or five. So, you know, I think it's, I think it's like a pretty, a pretty good spot. It's just a bit hot, super hot right now, but, uh, that goes away in the fall. And it's, it's a, it's a, it's pretty nice. Yeah, proximity to stuff

Joe: is cool. That was when we were in that area, living in Columbia.

Columbia is super, I would not live in

Danny: Columbia for

Joe: the amenities, but I would live in Columbia again because [00:05:00] the access to about everything else.

Danny: Yeah. I mean, I've lived there. I lived there whenever I was in, uh, fourth and fifth grade. And, um, I mean, obviously you're a different person in fourth and fifth grade than, than as like a 30, you know, eight year old man, but, um, I hear you, you know, I think.

It's, it's interesting, dude. I think that there are some elements in smaller southern cities that are just like, it's odd to see some things the way things still are. And you're like, is this really how things. Are in the US and, you know, and in the Southeast and small cities, man, it still can be kind of backwards.

Um, and it's, it's, uh, it's not, it's not a good thing to see, you know, I definitely see that in, in towns like that, or even where my folks live in Augusta, I see some of that Columbus, Georgia was like that when we were stationed there, you know, so, uh, and it's funny because you go to the Pacific Northwest and it's, um, it's just very different kind of sort of like, uh, stereotypes.

Like I saw a bunch of sketchy what looked like, um. You know, people with like mental health [00:06:00] diseases, just like zombies walking down the street and one of the streets in Seattle late, dude, this was late at night. It's one of the more sketchy things I've ever seen in my life. Like people were, one guy had tried to like, I'm assuming kill himself.

He had cut his wrist. He had them bandaged up and there was still blood coming out. And we were walking back with our kids from dinner when we came out to see you. And I remember Ashley was like, There's some sketchy parts of Atlanta, but this is the most sketchy shit that I've I've seen with my kids And we didn't mean to walk into it.

We were like one street over from where the market was it was it was crazy Yeah, that area is

Joe: interesting. Yes. Yeah, you know that extends a lot You trade one thing for another when you're going around places that that corridor between Portland and Seattle It's like no holds bar on the, on, on the streets.

I mean, cities, yeah. Clinics here and there, people self medicating with whatever they're doing and managing their stuff. I mean, we used to take the kids to piano lessons, even down on Olympia. And there would be like, [00:07:00] this guy thought he was probably a drummer. Like he was Nikki six or something. Some, some

Danny: rock band.

Joe: Yeah. Just on the. On the corner, just drumming away. And kids are like, what's going on over there? I was like. He's having the time of his life. We just need to let him work it out. Like, there's, there's a little bit of a drug issue. And, and then what not. But, you know, like I said, cities have their things.

You know what I mean? I

Danny: think it's, I think what it comes down to Well, it's the community of people you're involved in, right? Like, we are fortunate that A lot of Ashley's family has moved here, um, since we moved here, you know, and we have like my kids, cousins live in this area now. And, um, you know, we go back and visit something like Hawaii and it's cool because it's so beautiful.

Uh, but family so far away that it's, it's tough. And I know even with you guys where you're at, right? Like you don't have a ton of family, uh, where you guys are, everybody's on the East coast. And even though, you know, the Pacific Northwest [00:08:00] is, it's just such a. Freaking pretty, pretty place, man. Like when we visited, and granted it was the summer, so I haven't seen like the whole year, but, um, but dude, it was just unbelievable.

Just

Joe: so pretty. So let, let me ask you this. This will, you know, we're getting way into something. So when we were doing Doc and Jock, both of us were moving a lot, right? And it was like three years here, 18 months there. Yeah. And then, um, since we're starting now, we've both been establishing a community.

Living here in Washington for five years. Is a completely different experience than when I was in West Point for 18 months or even Columbia for three years. I don't think three years is enough to be established in a community. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, we actually have friends now. Like, people who know my last name.

Like, when we, you're the first person I've gotten onto a Zoom call with who actually says my name right. You know, my last name, right? But,

Danny: you know what I mean? So. I don't know if I can say it. But you could

Joe: say it, but no, but you know what I mean? Like now we're here five years. We [00:09:00] got friends. We carpool with so we have, we don't have direct family, but we've created it.

You know what I mean? And I think that takes what three to five years. I mean, how long

Danny: before you made like a good Atlanta buddy? I mean, you know, it's a, it's a good question, man, because, you know, I feel like, uh, I'm not good at, like, curating relationships, you know, this is something that I've actually, like, worked really hard on because it's, I, I don't ever, never thought this was a problem, um, but, like, growing up, I mean, Dude, it wasn't that we've been, it's not that I just moved whenever I was in the military.

Like I moved every roughly year and a half to two years. Sometimes if we stayed somewhere for three years, that was like such a long time for us. And that was my whole life, man. Like I've never ever been somewhere more than, except for here, uh, you know, more than three years. Um, And even when I was in college, like I was bouncing around in different places that we lived.

So, you know, I don't think I do a very good job of curation of relationships, development of relationships. But what I am, I'm good at [00:10:00] is the start. Like I can pretty much get along with anybody and find common ground with anybody. And like, but then I don't, it's like, I don't know what to do. It's like, it's like a, it's like a cat that catches a mouse and like, doesn't know what to do with it.

Right. It's like, well now what? Okay. So, but like, I think that, uh, for us. That's been something that we have not done as good of a job with. And a lot of it comes down to the amount of time that we spent building our, building our practice. So Ashley and I. We spent so many nights and evenings, weekends, you know, all our bandwidth was, was just trying to, to not have a business fail right early on.

It's just so much work. And then a lot of the people that we did have really, um, longstanding relationships with work for us. So it is a. It's a different type of relationship, you know, people that, you know, you would get along with really well, but their employees, you cannot treat the same way. So it's like at an arm's length, it's kind of weird, right?

And then I had a lot of patients that I turned into, you know, turn into buddies of mine, um, and, you know, and then that's also kind of an interesting dynamic, right? So, you [00:11:00] know, I would say it probably took me about closer to five years to really, you know, build some friendships up with people that I can like.

Actually have a conversation with, and that's the hard part too, because not everybody wants that, man. Everybody just wants to talk about, you know, what UGA football is up to, and, um, you know, whatever, like, you know, whatever transactional thing. And I'm like, no, dude, I want to talk, I want to talk about, like, let's talk about your life.

Let's talk about what's going on. How can we be better parents? You know, I want to talk about that stuff. But that, that actually, I think, scares a lot of people away. Yeah, no, it's interesting. So

Joe: we're, we're in the meat of that five year move and we're really enjoying it. So, yeah, you get to, you get to pick in the nooks and crannies of places.

And, um,

Danny: it's been a cool ride up here. Yeah, yeah. Well, and the thing we want to get into today, and this is, uh, you know, for, for those of you listening to this. Joe and I could catch up and just talk about random stuff for as long as we want. Like, it's something that we did for, we did for like, literally years.

And uh, and we, and, yeah, for a long time, and you know. And it's fun, man. I, it's, uh, and people actually [00:12:00] listen to that, which is always, I always found interesting, but, you know, from, from a standpoint of today, you know, what I found, what, what I want to talk about was this, this crazy trip that you did this summer, um, Which was cultivated through a good relationship, by the way.

We'll get to that I mean, I think when, when I think of people, like, so, so when I, you know, when I, when I, if I bring you up to people, it's, you're kind of a hard person to describe because, you know, I, I, I tell him, you know, I'm like, well, I have this friend. And, you know, he's a great strength coach. He's also, uh, you know, a middle school PE teacher.

He has three kids. He's written a kid's book. He was, you know, one of the top Olympic lifters, you know, for, for, for his age group in the whole country. He went to the CrossFit games, uh, and he wrote a kid's book. Oh, and he, and he's into like all these other things like, you know, bow hunting and, and, uh, and he's got a good relationship with his kids and his wife and like, so it's like, you're kind of a hard person to describe.[00:13:00]

You're sort of this renaissance man of, uh, of. Experiences and things that, that you're, that you're into. Um, and this summer, what I thought was really interesting, you told me, you know, you're like, yo, man, I just got off. You text me all these pictures. And you're like, I just got off this fishing boat. I spent six weeks on a, on an Alaskan fishing boat in the middle of Bristol bay.

I learned this was wild. And I was like, what? And immediately called you because I wanted to learn about it. Like, so it doesn't actually surprise me that you did that, but it was. What was interesting was what you told me, you know, when we were chatting about what you learned. And I was like, man, this is such an interesting perspective to take.

And also a glimpse into other people's lives that I don't think a lot of people, uh, really get a chance to see, you know? So how about this? Why don't you start out by saying, kind of talking about how you even got to the point where you decided you wanted to be a deckhand on a, on a salmon boat for six weeks.

Because it's not like this is what you do for a living. Yeah,

Joe: I was a deckhand on a bow picker, by the way, and we can get into what all that means, but listen. Yeah, Alaska was wild. Um, [00:14:00] listen, and I appreciate the compliment and what you said about the diversity of experiences and stuff. It was super cool.

But look, essentially, I just wanted to do something really hard. You know, I got, I've gotten into the outdoor life and I've been intrigued by Alaska for a long time. Been wanting to get out there. But, um, I had a buddy who's a mountain biker who's helped me renovate a kitchen of all things. And I get to talking to him and his dad has a salmon boat.

So through talking with this guy, um, one thing leads to another. And, um, I was a deckhand on, uh, on the red mag. It was, it's a Bristol Bay, um, bow picker. It's a 32 foot by 14, uh, vessel that's made to just slay sockeye salmon for six weeks out of the year, man. Yeah. Uh, and it was just, um, honestly, it came down to wanting to do something.

Um, at that time, along with talking with Ian. About his dad's experience in Alaska and trying just to get that done. I, you know, I've read a couple of books, comfort crisis for one, um, [00:15:00] outlive. I just read. And, um, and another thing that kind of pushed this thing too ahead with wanting to do this is, uh, my wife's mother had passed in March.

So, you know, I have all these weird feelings about wanting to do hard things, get things going, interesting relationships came up and then, um. The opportunity came up and I jumped on it. I had summers off and I just, I just, uh,

Danny: I went for it, you know, I, I feel like, and I don't know if you've experienced this or maybe feel this way.

I'd love to know, you know, your thoughts on this. But when I look back at, uh, impactful things that have happened to me and experiences or people that I've met, um. You know, it's, I feel like there's these, there's these moments that are, it's almost like they, they're, they're by coincidence, they kind of come together, but it's up to you to say yes, to, to actually take the step and have the courage to do something.

And I would guess that a lot of people, if they really look back in their life, there's maybe moments or things that they didn't say yes to or [00:16:00] directions they decided not to go. And it, and, and they probably didn't do that because of. You know, the logistics of it, the fear of it, the unknown or whatever it might be.

But you know, it is, it's, it's interesting, right? You're thinking to yourself, Oh, I need to do something hard. All of a sudden your friend's dad has a salmon fishing boat. And, and, but, but you could have easily been like, nah, I can't do that. Right. I got three kids. I it's a summer. Like, it's just, I mean, that's a lot to ask, right?

Like even, even from your spouse. So, you know, a lot of people probably have moments like that, but do you feel like you've had moments like that where it's like, this is odd, this is coming together, or maybe you're just more aware of it and then you're perceptive of it. I don't know.

Joe: No, I think it's a good point because I had a ton of reasons to say no.

For one, it was six weeks. I read the text message wrong. I thought it was one week. So we start talking. All of a sudden I get to scrambling and talking to these guys and they're like, no, we're talking six weeks, not five or not one week. So there were a ton of reasons to say no to, um, I had committed to coaching two softball teams and develop this kind of program.

We had all this, um, You [00:17:00] know, with three kids, you know, I feel like that's always a default. You look to what they're doing and then find reasons to say no, but I can remember talking to Eliza and the kind of culmination of the conversations with Ian. The reading the books, her deal. I just looked at her at one point and I said, um, and it became the answer I gave to everybody.

Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? I just said, I have this feeling I shouldn't say no to it. And I just kind of ran with it. Um, and over the course of the trip, the term I came up with for it was just, I just had to huck it. So when we were fishing on the boat, uh, captain, you know, I didn't have many jobs I was good at, but they knew I could throw a ball.

So I got the big buoy. So before we put the net out every time, I was a dude who, uh, threw the buoy out and coach would always say, uh, huck it. So I had, you know, looking back on it, you know, I had a bit of what I was calling just a huck it moment now where I just said, you know, and what are the terms for this?

You've had like, heck yeah. Right. Weren't like, hell yeah. Or FBI, you got to do this. They just, it was a cool feeling. And I was just [00:18:00] I don't know. I drove through it. I kind of snow plowed my way to making it happen. Right. And I don't know if for any reason, it was just like, this was something I can't say no to.

And I just made the decision. So it was

Danny: pretty cool. And I think there's also, you know, it's, it's funny, man. The, uh, like I, I grew up in the military and I know the military spouse. There's a lot of challenges associated with that. You take a lot, I mean, it's a tough life, man. And in this context, it was my mom, right?

And in yours, it's you and Eliza's the one that's active duty. But the military does not care about you as much as they care about what job she's going to be in, what role, what's the next stepping stone to make rank. Like, and you know, look, she's a lieutenant colonel, man. She's not, she's, they don't do that by accident.

You got to be a really smart person. You got to, you got to have the right assignments. And you have, and that means you're typically. Um, moving even more, you know, you're, you're uprooting yourself even more. So it's tough, right? And like, it's hard. You really rarely have [00:19:00] anything you do for yourself as a military spouse.

You know, and this seems like it's like the, the thing that this is like very specifically about you, right? It's an experience that you want to have. It's like, and I think in a lot of ways, it's like, well, damn man, like you probably been just like giving to everybody else for who knows how long. It's just something that you get a chance to do on your own.

And it feels like. It feels like it's right to do so, you know? Well,

Joe: that was definitely part of it too. I mean, you know, Eliza deployed early on in our marriage, you know, when we moved out to Washington, she was in Georgia for four months, you know, and again, we've moved so much and you're always reinventing yourself and that had to, that was part of it.

And, you know, you bring it up too, and it was probably. The most selfish thing I've ever done, but it had to be done. Like it, and it, it felt good to do. Um, it was hard to do, but that is a good point. It kind of brings that up. Like how selfish can you be? So I also figured out that I probably can't pull this card every, I probably don't know if I could, I don't think I can pull this every summer.

I [00:20:00] don't think I could pull this every day, but it also brings to the point. Like when you have these relationships with folks and even like the lives of like, there does come a point where. If you've built up enough like equity with people and you've made enough deposits in your relationship every now and then you can kind of do it.

So even on a smaller scale, a couple assistant coaches I was working with, like as soon as I brought it up to them and I'm like, look, man, I know I committed to all this softball stuff and you're the assistant, but, uh, what do you think about bumping up? Everybody I talked to, um, was like, oh, you got to do that.

We'll support you. So in a weird way, it was like. If you want to find out if you have good relationships, and you talked about curating them, right? Um, you should plan things with them, and then break your plans and see what happens every now and then. Like, it, it, like, just throw, just throw, you know, throw the complete curveball at people.

And, and I learned really quickly, like, who my good friends were out here. And I actually found out that... I do have them because as soon as I came back, the [00:21:00] softball didn't miss a

beat.

Joe: They were kicking butt. People were interested in the trip, but the support our family got was, was pretty amazing. And I don't know.

I don't. Do you think that's an interesting test to throw people? Do you think like if you had to right now test your relationships, uh, how do you think that that would work out? And do you think that that's a good way to see if you have good

Danny: friends? I mean, yeah, I agree. I know. I mean, I think it's, uh, I think what it is is.

It's a, it's as much of a, maybe it is a sign of friendship, but maybe it's more of a sign of how much, how much are, do people feel like you've given to them and, and, you know, and, and in a lot of ways, like sacrifice for them along the way. Right. Cause I mean, I can imagine, like, yeah, I feel like if, if somebody was like, all right, Danny, you're gone for the next six weeks.

Uh, you know, on a boat in the middle of Bristol Bay, like I could do it for sure. And people would have to pick up, you know, things that I do. And, um, and they, I, I'm sure they would do it cause I would do it for them as well. So I think that, uh, more than [00:22:00] anything in your role in particular. If you really look at like as a, as a teacher, as a coach, like you give so much to all these other people, to their kids, they see it, man, like, and it's a hard job.

Like I, I coach, you know, our kids teams and stuff, and it's, it's not something I do all day like you do with, with, uh, with the students that you have and stuff. And, and, um. It's hard, man. It's hard to really like care, uh, enough to want to put, put a good, you know, practice together to try to teach kids the right things to be consistent, to, to, to not be.

You know, it's not lose your temper on them because they, they might not want to do whatever it is you say they're doing, you know, depending on age is easier, I guess, than some, but I feel like part of it for you probably was, you think about your community, how much you've given to your community and for them, for you to, yeah, it'd be like, I want to do something, abandon them.

Joe: I abandoned them and they're all giving me a hard time right now. We were at a. I'm not home for, I'm not home for like a week and there's softball tryouts [00:23:00] and this and that and select teams and you get, and again, it's a good sign every now and then, um, to just kind of cut bait and come back. Cause then when you come back, if you just pick it right back up.

You know that that thing's pretty tight. Like when we talk, like it's nice, you just get right back in and you keep going. So it was nice to be welcomed back in, but, um, uh, I don't know. It's an interesting test, you know, I, I, and to learn it firsthand and to see and to have true friendship out here and have great support.

Um, but you, you do find out a little bit too. So you're doing some rec coaching, right? And you're,

Danny: you're head coaching it. Uh, yeah, I did, uh, basketball every year, baseball. I probably would have done baseball again this year, um, but we have too much travel going on and with our business, um, in the fall that I couldn't commit.

I'll, I'll help out in some ways, but yeah, as a head coach, I've done this now for, I don't know, uh, different sports for the last probably four years. And the older the kids get, the more fun it is, to be honest. Like the young, the younger they are, [00:24:00] it's just kind of hard. They can't really learn anything.

Yeah. You know, dude. And it's like, I mean, I played baseball at a high level. And so like, I'm trying to teach these kids, you know, the nuances of taking a ground ball and trying to round it off and make sure they get their feet in the right place. And I realized pretty quickly, they don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

They just need to make sure that they gator the ball and don't get hit in the face with a, with a ground ball. Right? Like, it's like, you have to break it down. It's at simple levels and you realize, damn, like I still am. I still like have so much to improve in terms of being able to communicate the right message to the right person.

And, uh, but it's, it is hard and it's a huge time commitment. Well,

Joe: and that was the thing we're finding out from these guys. As soon as I got back to her, like, thank God you're back.

Danny: Yeah, that's so hard.

Joe: People, because it's one thing, you know, even it's one thing to be the assistant. It's one thing to be the number two on the business thing, but to like take on the mission and get it done and be the reason it's going.

It's just a different, even from rec sports to running a business. I'd imagine You know, to take that head seats, just a little bit [00:25:00] different. So, you know, going on that trip was a cool opportunity to get some folks who have been like on the back burner to see how hard it is to actually be a member, like a prominent member of that little community, whether it's the softball team or it's like the big global business.

It's hard to be like the focal point,

Danny: you know what I mean? No, it really is. You carry a lot of, you carry a lot of, uh, just pressure and, and time and, and it's, it's a, it is a It is a burden, uh, to have everything run through you. And, you know, it's, it's, um, it is, it is a great stress test. I think for all you're saying, like family, friends, and also your business.

We talked to people a lot about this, like, man, if you can leave, if you had to leave for a month right now and no one could reach out to you, like, would they get things done? Right. So like, if you're listening to this as a business owner, you ask yourself like, okay, if you had to leave for a month and you had no, you know, no sort of cell phone service or way to feel connect with you, um, what would happen to you?

What if your business doesn't run? That means it's just like every it's just you, there's no [00:26:00] systems. There's no people that have been empowered to, to actually make decisions. And, and, uh, that takes time. That takes a lot of effort and consistency. And I think the other thing that's funny is like. The appreciation for when you get back and, and it's like, Oh my God, thank you for everything.

Yeah. Or if like, like if, like if Ashley goes out of town and I'm like, Oh my God, like all this stuff that she does is just like, I'm so thankful that she is, you know, a part of our family because I, it's so much more apparent when she's not around, just like how damn efficient she is and how much we depend on her.

And we, we, uh, we just are so thankful for after we experienced the short term loss of that, you know,

Joe: That was funny too. Like there were a lot of benefits from doing that trip and we'll get into some of the specifics here. But, uh, one last thing to come full circle on and you bring up this whole being thankful thing and, and relationship business.

The coolest part of my whole trip was probably the homecoming. Yeah. I had, when I had pulled up and I had taken the red eye in from Alaska to even get home. [00:27:00] And when I walked into the house, This is at like six in the morning here in Washington. There was a welcome banner. There was a big breakfast. I put the big slideshow on the screen and we're watching it.

And I'm sitting here thinking, I was like, this is a two hour breakfast. And in my mind, I was like, this is awesome. We're having a great time. But like. the greatest morning of my life was that morning, right? And then I'm like, Oh, why can't every morning be like this? You know what I mean? Why do I have to take a six week trip?

Uh, you know, and almost die 12 times and catch all this fish and do all this to have a great morning with my family. So that's another weird part about it, just to express that thankfulness. And Um, to people that are around you a little bit more. It's funny that had to happen after six weeks being gone, but that was even cool too.

So I don't know. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, right? So if every now and then just implement it, I don't know if you need to go to Alaska to do that, but you know, every now and then just taking a trip and, and cutting bait and then coming back and [00:28:00] sorting it out kind of tightens up relationships

Danny: too.

Yeah. I feel like it's, you know, it's similar to when we moved to Hawaii, I remember The first, I don't even know how long, few weeks, few months, maybe even, I, I just couldn't get over how unbelievably beautiful it is there. Like the colors don't look the same. Like this is green. This is what green actually looks like, you know, or that's what, that's what the ocean should look like.

This blue, like how could anything be so blue is amazing to me. And I remember I would just be so just like. in it and, and present and just like fascinated with everything around me. And then, you know, you're there, you live there for three years and it's just like, it's just background noise at a certain point.

Right. And you're back to sleeping in a hundred percent, man. And it's, and, and like, we wouldn't go back and visit, right. Uh, this summer we are just like, so. We soak everything in we're like we're only gonna be here for two [00:29:00] weeks, man We're gonna experience everything. We don't want to miss we didn't miss a single sunset the whole time, you know And I can't tell you how many sunsets i've missed in three years We were living in hawaii once we just got like busy with life, right?

and I think that you're right it's I don't know why that is but we definitely just get Normalized to wherever we're around. That could be an amazing partner, right? That could be, uh, that could be just like a great kid that you have that you just, it's just, that's just the way they are. Right. And then maybe it takes you being around real shitty kid to realize, man, my kid's awesome.

And I need to let him know more often because. They, they are, they're, they're just like, so like great to raise and, and it's like, it's the, it's the appreciation for that. I think you need the opposite to feel it, right? It's like, you don't know what hot is unless you know what cold is. So I don't know how you engineer that in without some of these experiences or some of the time away, you know?

Well, I think that's I

Joe: think again now to get back into the Alaska trip That's what was the cool thing about it. And the the big concept was to just keep doing Every now and then I think you have to do something hard, right? And you brought it up beforehand and I brought up [00:30:00] the comfort crisis and reading that book was a big paramount reason why I did this, that.

What did you, the term they use in that book and the term we talked about before the show was that Misogi situation. I had not known that that's what I was sorting myself out to do, but I don't know when you do those Misogi type things and, um, the degree of which that you take part in them is up to you, whether it's, you know, putting a 5k on the calendar or going to Alaska, whatever your degree of challenge is.

When you incorporate those hard things into your life somehow, they do make you appreciate things. Like, I'll tell you right now, one in particular, um, the Bristol Bay, do you know, do you ever heard of the Bristol Bay bucket system? No. This is how we use the restroom on the boat. So our little 32 foot vessel did not have.

Did not have a running water or, uh, you know, the toilet that we mostly use. So, um, you know, imagine 40, 40 mile an hour winds, eight [00:31:00] foot seas, you're on a big run and all of a sudden you got to take care of business. It's not as easy as

Danny: just walking into your

Joe: restroom, you know, climate controlled, you're not wet, you know, you don't, you don't have to get dressed.

You don't have to crawl out of bed in a particular way, but look, um, You all of a sudden get a real appreciation for what a real bathroom is when you don't have access to one for six weeks. So, um, and you know, all of a sudden going to the bathroom is not a, uh, not a place. They tell you, hey, let us know when we're making a run if you're using the restroom.

Because we need to know if you don't come back. Because every now and then, guys, it happens. You're on the run. You're tired. You sit on the bucket, and all of a sudden the boat bumps in a funny way, and you're over to the side. Didn't happen on our boat, but this is You're outside. Yeah, no, listen, on the boat,

Danny: yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's just a, it's just a actual bucket. I thought you were saying it was like a cassette toilet. No,

Joe: [00:32:00] it's a bucket. On the bow

Danny: of the boat. I completely misunderstood. I thought they just called it that. So you got a bucket, and you're sitting out in all this wind and rain. Yes,

Joe: most times. But here's the other thing, you even learn to appreciate things like that.

We were making, we were making a funny, someone said something to me and I was like, yeah, but when I poop, eagles fly. And the interesting thing there is that happened to me once. I'm sitting there pouting away on the bucket. This sucks. It's wet. It's cold. I just really want to go back to sleep. It's three in the morning.

But all of a sudden I hear And i'm looking up and i'm like, oh my gosh,

Danny: there's an eagle.

Joe: Okay. There's something to appreciate there, you know And there's a, there's even a sunset picture that I laugh at every time I see it because unbeknownst to everyone looking at this red sun and it's a beautiful picture and there's a picture of a great boat.

Um, I was on the bucket doing that. So even in that moment when you do really hard things, it's crazy [00:33:00] how you figure out how to appreciate stuff. Right. And that was a big takeaway for me as soon as I got home appreciating them. So the biggest challenge I've had since even coming back is keeping that up because golly.

We do that comfort crisis thing is a real deal. You take a lot of stuff for granted, whether it's air conditioning and comfy couch, all this entertainment that we have access to, and you just fall into it so quickly. You know, all of a sudden you're not watching TV for six weeks and you're, you know, number two and in a bucket and taking advantage of everything.

And then all of a sudden, you know, we come and you're right back to the normal part of it. You know what I mean? Just getting into, uh, the, the modern go about, but, um, It was cool to have that and it was cool to gain an appreciation for just the little things that you take for granted.

Danny: Well, I, I, I think one thing we can do is maybe we can kind of define a Masogi a little bit because if you look [00:34:00] up, I, I, I read the comfort crisis.

Um, uh, Jared, Jared Moon, um, has killing comfort, which is a really good book, you know, Jesse Itzler, who talks about Masogi's, uh, he, he talks about, you know, living with a seal. Um, the, the David Goggins book that he wrote, uh, he talks about some similar stuff to that, right? Even, uh, even a guy, Kyle Corver, who was, uh, played basketball for the, for the Hawks.

And I believe he's actually on their, their, uh, management staff now. Um, he, he talks about how he does the Masogi every year, I believe with like his brother or something. And, and if you look at like Masogi, uh, in. In Japan, it's, it's, it's like, technically it's like to cleanse or it's like to wash away with water.

Right. So the, I don't know how that gets translated into basically what we think of as something so hard that it makes the rest of the year. Seem easier, right? Everything else seems easier. Uh, but that's kind of the way that I look at it, [00:35:00] right? And it can be as simple I think as somebody anybody that maybe has had the experience where You have gone camping and you slept on the ground and then you know the next night in your bed You're just like oh my god This bed is amazing and you take it completely for granted every other night of the year, right?

So I I do think people can relate to to what you're talking about Um, I guess you know for you this Just the process in general, like, what did you, what did you learn about yourself during that six weeks of what I would consider, like, pretty uncomfortable time that you've now been able to take with you and hopefully keep with you, um, you know, now that you're home?

Joe: Well, I did, well, one thing that actually is interesting is to confirm something. I want, I, this is going to sound like a real guy thing to say, but I wanted to see how tough I was. Like I've done stuff in an athletic scenario, whether it's CrossFit games or football or weightlifting or in a gym. [00:36:00] I think I've done hard, tough things in the gym and in a kind of controlled sport setting.

But I wanted to take on like a, a different level of tough to see what I had where you couldn't quit, you know, like in sports, you can just. Say timeout or pause. Right? Um, and there's always that safety net out there. You couldn't there's dudes livelihoods Depending on what you're doing, right and you come to see that quick So I wanted to put myself in a deal where you know, once you're on the boat, there's really no getting off Like we were out to see the hook You're going to complain and you know, it's actually a really big deal.

And you, you know, being a kind of a team guy and a team sport guy, um, there's just no quit. So I wanted to see if I really put that to the test, if we could do it, I'm going to put myself into an environment where I don't know what I'm doing. Um, so that was kind of cool. It was a, it was a confirmation to see if all this kind of athletic stuff and [00:37:00] toughness that I've kind of cultivated through playing football and sports and coaching was a real thing, or if it was just something that worked in the context of sports.

Um, cause this was a real challenge. So, so that was pretty cool. Um, I think it was nice to confirm that there is some real resiliency there. It was nice to confirm that, um, you know, I could do something, uh, that I had to do, uh, and get it done. You know, that, that was, that was probably the coolest part. I mean, cause I have never been, that was like the longest test, probably still the hardest five weeks of my life.

No, no doubt. Physically, mentally, I didn't have the relationships that I normally have. I was doing a job I didn't know how to do, uh, the grind, no sleep schedule. I mean, it was the opposite of the current go about, you know, in suburbia, complete opposite on every direction. So in that regard, it was nice to know that, you know, You know, uh, middle class white guy can go out there and still get [00:38:00] after it.

You know what I mean? And then, so it was nice to do, you

Danny: know, I, I think that, uh, it's funny. I have a friend and he'll, he'll always, you know, he, he has this like a team of people that he's like, if there's a zombie apocalypse, I've got to, I've got a group I'm reaching out to, I've got, he's got like people for all kinds of stuff and I'm on his team because he's like.

Well, you have some leadership tendencies, but you know how to deal with musculoskeletal injuries, which could be incredibly important if I have to run away from a, from a zombie. Uh, so, you know, and some basic like, uh, you know, combat medical skills that I had to learn whenever I was, you know, in the military as well.

He's like, you're on the team and then he has like people in these different things. Right. And, and, but I think to myself that it's obviously such a silly scenario, but. Man, if you had to like snap back into a feral, uh, you know, state, um, I don't think it's hard to say, right? Because, because hopefully we don't necessarily have to do that.

But I, I think that, uh, People want to know what they can handle, like what they can do and, uh, and it's [00:39:00] normal to want to experience that maybe not quite as a, as, as a, uh, long of an experience you're talking about, but it's the reason why you see people that are so into tough mutters and Spartan races and go rock competitions and, you know, all these things that are just like a little bit more primal.

Um, so I, I do think there's a natural. Underlying tendency, not just for men, but for women too, that they want to see like, all right, what, what, what am I physically capable of? I feel like I lived in this temperature control bubble, but it's not the way we're designed, right? We're apex predators that are just like, uh, driving to and from work to sit on the computer to then drive back and then sit on the couch and watch TV.

You know, it's just, it's not really how we're designed. And I would

Joe: say for folks interested in doing something like, and this might be some cool, a cool thing to even if you're are planning out, like, let's say you're into this Misogi concept or. You want to do a rite of passage, right? Another phrase on this is a rite of passage.

My uncle does these trips out here. They call them, um, he works for a group called Journeys, and they take kids out in the woods for like [00:40:00] three weeks to do things. And it's, it's a wilderness kind of survival stuff and rites of passage gear. But look, you, you also have to, um, you have to taper your way into it, right?

I wouldn't, one of the things, this kind of wasn't a cold turkey thing for me. Um, You know, one of the cooler things you mentioned, uh, that I've gotten into since living in Washington is the elk woods, right? So I've gone out there and done like a week backpacking thing, right? So even in that context was kind of dosing that out to go a little bit longer.

Um. So, you know, if you are planning on it too, um, I don't know if you have to just jump into six weeks on that. I mean, you can go on a Facebook page right now if you wanted to. Uh, I think it's bristolbayfishingjobs. com or Facebook or whatever, Bristol Bay Fishing Group. And you can look for these things.

And I would say if you're not used to kind of, um, if you're not camping. You probably don't want to get on one of these boats until you sort some [00:41:00] of that out and see what you can manage because it, if you haven't had to use the restroom with a shovel, all of a sudden, the Bristol Bay bucket system is not so bad because you can relate to it.

Right. But all of a sudden, if it's porcelain thrown and now six weeks on the bucket, you're probably going to have a hard time with it. So, you know, I don't know, just kind of give people a tip on kind of creating their first. I'm going to get harder. You know, you. Want to dose it, you know? So, so there's, there are some context leading up to being able to do that trip and, uh, you know, start with backpack and start with camping before you do something crazy like that, if that's what you want to do.

Danny: And I think the other thing too, is it doesn't have to necessarily be something quite so extreme, right? Like, um, it could literally be, you know, a, a super long walk that you do one day. You know, like it could be like, I remember whenever I was stationed at Schofield barracks, uh, I got. Like there were all these battalion [00:42:00] and each battalion had a different, you know, uh, designator.

So it would be like 116 or 121 or 227. And it was basically, uh, you know, this, the, the, the designator for that specific battalion within the brigade and. But whatever the last number was, each of these, each of these battalions would always do a, a ruck march that would be equivalent to that number, right?

And, so, there were, there were, there were, uh, two battalions that for whatever reason thought that I was, like, part of their battalion, like, organically. They, they didn't understand that I was, uh, for the whole brigade. So they basically adopted me as, like, uh, an, uh, an adopted, you know, medical officer that was organic to them.

That means I had to do everything. That they did. So I remember like when we did this 21 mile ruckmarsh and, and if you're, if you were in some sort of, you know, infantry elite group or just whatever you spent your cab scout, you spent a lot of time with weight on your back walking around. That may not be a [00:43:00] huge deal to them.

But for me, a physical therapist, there's like treating injuries most of the day. And then all of a sudden they're like, Hey, cabinet, Tomorrow, we got 21 mile ruck marks, and it's just, you know, commemorating whatever, uh. And I'm like, what, you know, at like 21 miles, dude, I just remember just how it was more and more miserable things I've ever done, ever done.

And just like everybody was beat up. And I always thought this is so dumb, uh, that we were just only going this distance because it's the end of the, you know, the designator, uh, number that you have. But I just remember thinking just, just like how much easier all these other things were afterward, right?

Just like it was, it was a forced Misogi in a lot of ways. And, and that's literally walking with weight on your back for a very long, for a lot longer than you want to walk. Right. So, you know, you can do something as simple as that, right? Just do something that is. Outside your comfort zone, outside your norm, you know, maybe it is, you know, maybe you never, you know, sleep on the ground or something like that, or you don't have to go head first in this, you [00:44:00] can definitely, you know, take baby steps into things that make you uncomfortable.

And for a lot of people, they find that in endurance sports, right? It's like, okay, I'm gonna do my first triathlon or my first marathon or whatever it is, whatever you have. You know, the desire to want to do, I think it's just a matter, it's a matter of the thing that you're like, Ooh, I don't know if I, if I want to do that.

Like once you feel that, that's usually what you need to try to do. You should

Joe: do it. Yeah, no, I agree that this was, and again, that was part of it too. I did have the heck yeah moment, but as we got closer, I was like, is this really going to happen? It was a weird anxiety.

Danny: Let's talk about that. Cause I would love to know you show up, right.

Are you show up in, in the middle of nowhere, Alaska and you got a backpack, you know, and you're, you're like, no, no experience. You never been on a boat like this at all. Like as a deckhand, they know that, right. They're like, who's this P you know, teacher from, from Washington's show it up. Yeah. What was that like?

Like you show up day one and like, what was that, that first sort of [00:45:00] encounter with the people you're going to be working with? Well, I'm glad

Joe: you did that too, because it's a good question. And I think, I think if I had done this when I was 17, like a lot of guys are 25 or college guy would have been different.

You're a lot more, you're, you're selfish in the wrong ways then everything's about you, right? I'm doing right. Um, so. I talk it and I was lucky enough because Ian knew Ian told me this was a job because when I first brought this up to him, the guy who has done this before, he goes, no, no, no. If you're on the boat, everyone gets a share.

It's a job because if you ever do this, you need to realize it's a job for these guys. This is not. Yeah, your midlife crisis. So going into that minds, going into it with that mindset was really important because I had to check my ambitions knowing that this was a real career for those guys. And I actually do think it was super helpful because when when things happened or things didn't go right, I was like, well, I get to go home.

These guys. [00:46:00] still have to work. This is how they make their living. I might not need the money, but they do, right? So, um, that was kind of the biggest thing for me that I think actually made me be successful because I checked anything I wanted to do and realized this is, this is, this is Captain Brad, Captain Tanner's deal.

Right. So whatever, whatever experience I want to have has to come secondary. The fact that these guys are paying their bills with this. Right. So I think that was really helpful to not take, um, my selfishness, um, and wanting to have a good experience into their deal, but, um, that was the scariest part. Um, I figured I could handle it physically, but I was like, what if I don't like these guys, you know, what if this doesn't work?

But, um, I don't know. You mentioned it at the beginning of the podcast that you and I can talk and get along with most people at the beginning of a relationship. I think I'm decent at that. Um, but I also really lucked out. I mean, Captain Brad, when he's not running, um, when he's not running [00:47:00] the salmon boat, He's a bush pilot and he takes people on backcountry hunts and when he, so he had his own plane, Tanner hunts and, and does some things.

So we had a lot of common interests. So, um, yeah, it was weird, but being personable really helped. I mean, that was relationship piece was super tough. Um, and, and. I don't know. I think if you're going into a scenario like that, what helped me is just being open minded. I was essentially curious about these guys, so that helped alleviate a bunch of that.

Asking them questions about what we're doing, not saying, Hey, how can you help me do this job? Yeah.

Danny: Yeah. I mean, and I think the other thing too is... Um, I would assume and I'd love to know what you took away from this with, you're, you're there because you, you feel like you want to try to do something hard, right?

Yeah. And these people are there because they've got to pay their mortgage [00:48:00] and also from what you were telling me, you don't know how much you're going to make until they start deciding what they're going to pay for the fish, right?

Joe: Well, again, even like that, yeah, um, that, that was the craziest part too.

It made me, there's a lot of things about our lives that are super duper comfortable. And I'm not in a, um, I've never really been comfortable in, um, a bit line of work where, uh, Your commission based economy, right? That's not I like having the salary. I like things being consistent. But listen, when you want to talk about a cutthroat business, these boat owners take on all the risk.

They buy the boat. They get the boat ready. They buy their nets. They buy the gear. They take on essentially all the responsibility. And, um, they also. Don't know what they're going to make until they're halfway through it. We caught 110, 000 pounds of fish before we even knew and dropped off 110, 000 pounds of fish to the tender and the processor before we even knew what we were getting paid per [00:49:00] pound for those fish.

So it is crazy, right? So again, luckily, I had a guy who had given me some information about how hard the job actually is and what these guys are like before I had done it because it really helped me check my own deal. And that was really nice to do. And it was, it was nice to have that experience, but you have to do your homework.

Doing my homework was really important on that, getting to know these guys. So, um, And the other cool part is I didn't know them cold turkey. Um, again, uh, Ian, the guy who had kind of Middleman, this relationship, he knew us both. So through Ian's relationship with both of us, me, Captain Brad and Tanner, we had a kind of common interest in a common bond a little bit.

So that was nice too, to have something that, that, that we could all talk about or something that was kind of like a, like a start of the relationship is, I don't know if that makes sense, but it was nice

Danny: to have. No, [00:50:00] no, I mean, I think it seems like it'd be far less anxiety than just showing up cold turkey and, you know, you're just like, uh, I mean, you're some guy showing up to get on a boat with some guys.

You don't know, right? Like that, that in its own right is. Just think about people when they have to go to new places and meet new people. Um, how much that is, uh, you know, how stressful that can be. I feel like, especially now considering, you know, people are definitely a lot more sort of remote, uh, there there's more, you know, work from home.

There's less going out into the world, you know, and, uh, and with that, I think people have even more anxiety associated with. New people, new experiences and the unknown. Um, but, you know, I, I think about what you did and I think about, you know, some of the, some of the things that most of us settle into and I'm guilty of this as well because it's just so easy to get, you know, in your routine and, and the things that are priorities [00:51:00] that you have, um, and before you know it.

You, you know, you, you're just settled in this really comfortable life, but I, uh, I was talking to somebody and, and I remember they said, uh, you know, life really is like, should be viewed as a great adventure that we get a chance to go on. Right. And like, be able to experience, have all these experiences that are really meaningful with people that are meaningful along the way.

And it's sad to, to really think that a lot of people's view is that life is this challenging thing that just needs to be endured. And that's. You know, you, you just have to, uh, deal with. This time that we have and not actually view it as, as something that is a positive, um, because their, their life just isn't what they want it to be.

Right. So I, I, I know you've got a couple of kids and I have a couple of kids and that's one thing I try really hard for them to understand is just like, don't take it for granted. This is your [00:52:00] chance to have an adventure. And at the end of your adventure. What's your, what's your story going to look like?

Is it going to be worth reading? Or is it literally going to be a boring story about somebody that never did anything and never challenged himself and never had to deal with adversity? Because like, people don't want to read that. You know, live a life that creates a story that somebody would want to read and be like, man, that was cool.

Yeah, and I know you're coming

Joe: through. You've, you were, we were talking about Outlive a bit and, you know, Peter T makes that point. You know, that book is very mechanistic in terms of what's like what's driving health and what's not and how you can battle, but at the end he gets into some of this stuff too, on a really cool level where I think he calls it like, um, he makes the analogy about, you know, what people say about folks at their obituaries and stuff, and it's generally.

It's not, people aren't going to be interested in your stat lines at that point. They're going to be interested in the cool stuff you've done and how hard it's going. And I make that point to my kids that is[00:53:00]

the fact that you get to come home and turn on Netflix, that's a problem to me, right? And that's going to be a big problem that you're not going to be able to catch up from if you don't get ahead of it really soon. And I actually think the other part of that too is. With Rites of Passages, Masogies, we put these things on little kids a lot through sports now.

Danny: Yeah. But we forget to do them ourselves

Joe: and enjoy it. So you have to kind of cut bait and do that thing, um, constantly and all the time and put something on the year and put something on the calendar that keeps getting you to, to take on a challenge that just gets you to appreciate things a bit. And I don't know if it needs to be a six weeks on a Bristol Bay gill netter, but, um, it's gotta be something

Danny: right.

Yeah, I, I, I agree. I, I don't, it doesn't have to be that extreme. I don't think for, for, for everybody, maybe it does, if that's what you're, you know, you feel like you're called to do or whatever it might be. But I [00:54:00] do, I, I, I think about this stuff too, with our, um, you know, with my son in particular, he's 11 and, uh, you know, I think, uh, probably not next summer, but the summer after that.

So his grandfather, uh, Ashley's dad. He goes and he, I mean, he literally just got back from a six or eight week, um, trip where he just drove out. He's got a, he's got a jeep truck with an overland tent on it and him and his dog just literally took off and he just got back a couple of days ago. And I mean, dude, like it's.

He went out there to hike the John Muir trail, but it was so hot. His dog like literally couldn't take it. It was a shepherd mix and it was getting so hot that he had to basically, um, like go back and find a cooler place to be like, it wasn't, it wasn't quite as hot. Um, so he's just up and down all over the place, like no itinerary.

Uh, just ends up going, you know, wherever, uh, slept in a hotel zero nights the whole time he was there. Right. [00:55:00] Like he basically just like living in his, in his, uh, overland tent on public land with his dog. Uh, and you know, and he, he does stuff like that basically every year. Right. So this like, sort of just off the grid trip and.

And, and honestly, he, he always, he's always a more enjoyable person to be around when he does that and he gets back. Yeah, that's right. He just, you know, he just kind of, and, and, but I, with, with, uh, with Jack, uh, you know, when, when, I think we'll end up doing this when he's 13, you know, there, we want to go out for a few days with him and, and, uh, you know, um, hike through, uh, a couple sections of places that he's been a lot and is very familiar with and.

And have him carry, you know, a certain amount of load and just, just like experience having to be uncomfortable in an unknown environment with the people that, you know, are male figures in his life. Uh, and I think that that is something that's. That's not like something that was intentional in my life, but I do think about it with, uh, with our kids and, and, uh, it's something that I, it's like, [00:56:00] like you talk about this sort of right of passage, maybe something as simple as that.

I think just, just take being intentional about, you know, these experiences that you want to have or you want to have with your. Um, and, and being able to misery loves company, right? Like, and when you do that, you, you become closer together. I noticed that in the military, man, just like misery loves.

Company is a real freaking thing. You notice that in, in football camp, you notice that in like all these things that you've had to do that are hard and you, you, you develop these bonds and people that are closer. So I think it is very much worth looking at doing that with people that you, you really want to have the closest relationships with.

Yeah.

Joe: And two, the cool part is even, even with new relationships. They're, I think, solidified through doing some of that hard stuff. Like, you know, going through that with Brad and Captain Brad and, and, and, uh, and Deckmate, um, Tanner, like. They're good friends now. Like right when I got back, it was funny.

We're on the trip and every now and then, you know, there's different systems. There are some creature comforts on the boat that they had. Like, um, [00:57:00] I didn't have cell service or internet the whole time, didn't watch a single thing. A TV, um, just was reading books and draw them. And then I picked up some old talents again, but you know, there were some with good sight lines.

There are little deals, whether it's the garment in reach, or they had a Zolio on the boat where we could. Link that up to a satellite and we could send some text messages. So unbeknownst, you know, we all have our own little family dramas where we can still communicate a little bit with family, not talk to them, but we were sending text messages, um, come out that, uh, Tanner, Tanner had a bear problem at his place in Homer, Alaska.

Uh, there was a bear getting into his chicken coop and his wife was home alone dealing with that. But the part is right when we got back. he's sending me text messages of how he managed the bear issue. And you know, we're checking in with these guys and doing that. So even with like new folks, it's amazing how when you're actually do stuff with them, not just, you know, share photos and do the [00:58:00] regular, go about when, when you have these interesting experiences with folks, it does also kind of hyper drive your relationship building too.

Yeah. That

Danny: was great. No, it's cool, man. And I think this is, what's interesting is, You know, for people that listen to this podcast and primarily, right. It's like clinical business owners of some degree. Right. And I think if you, if you look at your business, it's what I find so appealing about business is.

You might not be going out on a boat, you know, and pooping in a bucket, but dude, you get your ass whooped all the time. Yeah. Like you get turned down all the time. You have to have difficult conversations with people. Um, you know, you have, you have to deal with staff members that might leave in and they become competition, you know, and you have to, uh, improve your.

Your deficiencies, you have to get better with, you know, emotional control and you have to learn [00:59:00] skills and you have to do that over a long, long period of time just to have success in this thing that, um, a lot of people don't want to do because it is, there's no guarantee it's, uh, it is, it can be very sketchy.

You don't know what's going to happen. Um, but it's, it's like this long, you know, it's like this crucible of, uh, experiences that you get to go through. And there's some of the, the, the greatest sort of. Highs that I've ever had or felt I've come with things we've been able to accomplish, you know, in our, in our business or, or even, it's not even us.

Most of the times it's like, like. Us stabbing like all of our staff members, be able to be financially secure enough to buy homes was like such a big deal to me, uh, with, with athletes potential. And like, I see these people and I see what they're doing and I see what their life looks like. And, and it's like all the hard work that we put in to get to a point where we can even have a business that supports these folks.

Like it's worth it to see those things. Right. But it is a endurance event. I mean, it is an ultra endurance event and dude, and sometimes some [01:00:00] days and not just days, but it could be weeks where you're like. This sucks. Why in the hell am I doing this? Like everything's going wrong. You know, I'm just getting kicked while I'm down.

I don't know if this is going to work out. And you're just like, you have these layers of stress associated with it. And the worst part is you can't share it with anybody in your business because then they think the business is going out of business and they're going to go somewhere else, right? So you have to suffer in silence.

And if you have these wins, you really don't have anybody to celebrate it with either. So it can be very isolating. And I think that, you know, anybody listening to this can, in a lot of ways relate. With what they're going through with their business with this sort of, you know, intense experience, but from that comes so many positive things.

And I think that's, uh, even looking at engineering something else inside or outside of that something physical, I think is really, um, really helpful. I don't know if you would you consider. Like, having a Masogi that has nothing physical to do with it? Like, would you, like, I don't know, giving yourself, like, a couple weeks to learn a language, and then forcing yourself to, like, go somewhere and, you know, try to communicate in another [01:01:00] country?

Like, like, what is it, uh, are there, you know, boundaries around what that might be? Well, listen, I would say

Joe: too, like one of the harder parts of this challenge was probably how to manage time and stuff. So yeah, like you bring up like, um, this idea of Masogi. So it's easy to look at this trip I went on and be like, it's hard, right?

Um, on the boat, the physical labor part of it was, it was gross and the challenge and being on there. But actually the hardest part was managing the fact that we didn't have the digital distraction. So I actually probably would say. Um, one of the better Misogi's that anyone could probably do is to just do nothing like, like

Danny: cut it all off in the

Joe: closet for 20 minutes.

And I experienced a little bit of this, even with, with hunting. One of their favorite things I like to do is when I go out hunting is, um, or fishing. Is to go out there without the phone, without talking to anybody, without distraction. And can you manage that being alone portion of it? Because that was [01:02:00] the other thing, the boat was a, although it's a 32 by 14 boat, you're pretty lonely most of the time.

You know, and I could distract myself by playing catch with my son, or I could distract myself by turning on Netflix, or I could go in the garage and get, you know, a workout in, or take the mountain bike out and do that, or go on a hike, or hang out with any number of people and go any number of places.

When you had a spare moment on the boat, you were just on the boat doing nothing. So how do you even manage that? So those are actually some of the harder times when things, when it was busy and we were grinding and we're getting after it and we were doing work. In fact, I wrote this. So another part about this was while my bunk there you guys know bunk beds are right?

I was I slept in a bunk bed, but I didn't get a bed. My bunk was under the bunk So there were three bunks mine was on the floor. I had 18 inch space to sleep under It was pretty much a coffin had to crawl into it. So when I would have time alone I crawled into my coffin and I [01:03:00] remember writing On top of where I slept, I started marking down days every day, it wasn't, every day wasn't easy, I was kind of keeping a ticker, but I ended up writing this quote, and I was like, I first kept thinking work will set you free, but I was like, I can't quote that, that's pretty, that's a pretty terrible quote, uh, I don't want to pull that, you know, um, but then I was like, the only relief is in the work.

And that was the only time it was ever easy on that boat was when we were grinding. So, um, it just bringing it up, like, can you manage boredom if you're really looking to challenge yourself in this modern day? Yeah. I actually think the hardest part of that whole deal was, was the mental toll of just doing nothing.

The mental toll of being bored. Like if, if, if coach Brad Uh, I kept calling him coach, by the way, if, if Captain Brad's going to give me four hours off because we don't have to do anything, I don't get to go off the boat and go play video games or go to the bar or get to hang out. I'm still just on the

Danny: boat.

So it's just pooping in a bucket still. [01:04:00] You're still there. So yeah,

Joe: that's it. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah. I get time off, but I'm still pooping in the bucket. But my time off was in the bunk. You're just in. An inch coffin doing nothing, right? So, you know, that was probably the hardest part of managing that.

And if you haven't ever done that before, you probably need to start. And I guess this brings up, you've probably talked about meditation on this. You have to have some sort of a practice like that. And that was put to the test more than any physical thing that I had to manage on that boat or any even relationship piece, you know, dealing with my board.

I've never been that board for that long before or had to be, you

Danny: know what I mean? Yeah, that's interesting. I feel like, uh, we're all so inundated with tasks and information and these like super dense schedules. I see it with my kids too, man. And sometimes I, I'm like, I don't know if this is the right thing to do with them.

You know, it's like they've [01:05:00] got all these. Activities they've got, they've got school all day, then homework, then they've got, you know, some physical sport, uh, or it's trying to learn an instrument or whatever. Um, but just like. Downtime is not that common, you know, like it's it's every minute is sort of packed.

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't I don't know if I guess it's hard for me to think back when I was a kid, right? I feel like the special especially specialization travel teams. All these things were not as prevalent. Um, especially at a young age. Like, why do eight year olds need to be on a travel team? Like, I don't understand what, what, what's the, what's the point of that?

Uh, to specialize so early that, and really the only, I think the only reason is, is because their friends are doing it. So there's a social element to it that they don't want to miss out on. [01:06:00] Um, but, you know, we know it's not great for you to have your kid focus on one sport at eight years old. You don't even know what they're going to look like, uh, physically, you know?

Joe: It's also easy to get caught up in, right? For the right things. I mean, Charlie does gymnastics. We just got done a great softball season. And then all these girls want to do the next step and rather than go play soccer, all these girls are at the next travel softball thing. So we're actually having this debate right now.

And. Kind of to bring it, to bring the other thing to it, I wonder too, I, the things that I really like to do right now are, and what I appreciate about them, whether it's going to the Elkwoods or when it was in Alaska or any kind of task, whether it's getting girls ready for the softball tournament, when you can kind of, and this is a cool business tie in.

It's a singularity of purpose is really nice and I've come to really appreciate that as hard as Alaska was for six weeks and as complicated as those systems were, whether it's [01:07:00] how the state troopers were managing it, how we had to talk with biologists, what we do on the boat, dealing with meat tenders at the end of the day, like the singularity of purpose is that we're all doing this for the health of the river was really nice.

We're all trying. Get salmon in the boat. This is all we're trying to do, um, to wake up knowing that that's the job. I'm pooping in the bucket because we got to get salmon in the boat. I got to cook these guys just to get salmon in the boat. That's actually really nice and comforting. So, to your question, is it right for the kids?

Is this the right way? I don't know. I don't know why I'm not applying it more to my kids as they're developing. And I still get caught up in that rat race, right? They got to do this. They got to do that. You got to keep up with it. I don't think it is based on my own personal experiences and what I like.

Um, I like the fact that I had to do one thing for six weeks and that was really comforting, you know? So,

Danny: yeah, I think, I think the challenge is [01:08:00] the, the perception of being a high achiever, right? It's like, you don't, you don't want to be left behind and we have a very, uh, competitive society, which in a lot of ways I think is a positive thing, uh, in terms of.

You know, being able to, um, being able to achieve things that you want to achieve in your life and you have to learn how to do things you don't really like, like I had this conversation with my son where it's like, like, do you, do you understand what, what discipline is, you know, it's, it's, it's doing things that you don't want to do because you know, they're, they're good for you.

Like, you know, I don't, I would rather eat, you know, uh, tasty cakes than broccoli. But one is. Not great for me. And one is better, right? So you can't just do the things you want to do all the time because they might not be the best things for you longterm and understanding discipline and how that applies and just trying to get better [01:09:00] at skills.

I just, I feel like, uh, my opinion is. I don't care what my kids want to be good at, but they need to at least try to aspire to be, to be really good at something. And it can be in any domain that they choose, as long as they understand that it takes work and it takes, it takes a deliberate practice and.

Effort to get to that point, because if they can learn that, then they can apply it to pretty much anything that they want. And they won't be, you know, weak minded people that give up easily and that are, uh, trying to be dependent on other, other folks. Like I see, I think this is a huge problem. It's just a citizen in general.

I think you need to at least be able to chip in and take, take care. Yourself, be able to, uh, be empathetic towards other people, but also, you know, be, be able to work on yourself and, and become a better person and, and lead by example. And, um, you know, I, I, I really, honestly, I, I'm just like, man, if everybody just focused on their kids, just being good citizens, we'd have a hell of a lot less problems.

But instead what, what it seems like we [01:10:00] focus on is, um, You know, what, what, uh, what, what travel team can my kid get on as fast as they possibly can at the expense of all the other things that they should also be learning because they don't have the time for it, you know, so I don't know, man, it's, it's, uh.

It's probably a conversation for a whole nother day because they go pretty deep on that. But, but I, I think the downtime is something that they don't get a whole lot of. Um, and when they do, my kids default to books, man, they read like crazy. Um, but even, I don't know, sometimes that is like, can you sit there and not do anything, you know, or come up with some random game.

You just decided, you know, you made it up being creative. I don't know.

Joe: Well, and that's what was actually cool. Um, with all that downtime, I actually got bored of reading books. Right. Yeah, so I started doing weird stuff. Like I started drawing again. I started right. I wrote a, I wrote a poem like weird stuff.

Like I started writing letters to my family and stuff. So like, that's the other part too. And you do slow down. And [01:11:00] I'm glad that you brought up that deal. I'm glad we're on this chat about it more like hard part was with it not being physical like you brought it up. Um, there are a ton of opportunities to just, you know, challenge yourself to write something down every day.

You know, a hundred words, it could be really, there's any number of ways to do it. And, um, It's funny when you do that, what ends up coming out of you, I ended up drawing some like really good pictures, you know what I mean? And I remember I was like, Oh, you know, when I was a kid, I used to really like to draw and you remember all these old things, but it only would have happened.

And then it only did happen because I was forced into it. Like again, um, these extended periods of, of boredom and not being able to do stuff. And it was as challenging as anything else. And I think the reward will be pretty cool. What would you. When's the last time you were bored for literally, and think about, and not bored in the context that you're bored right now.

If you're bored, you're going to get in the sauna. You can get access to the computer. When is the last time you've really been bored and literally had no [01:12:00] choice but to be border? I mean,

Danny: has it ever happened? Yeah. I mean, I, I, I definitely have periods of time where I've been extremely bored when I was in the military.

Um, you know, when we would go out and we would do different field training exercises and like I, my job. So, you know, I was bored a lot in those, in those, um, environments because. My job was not to go do these, you know, whatever training missions where you're going out and you're, you're simulating an ambush and kick it.

Like, I would love to have done that. You know, love to. Dude, I'm there in so my job my primary job in that role was as I'm like one of the triage officers So me and a dentist me and the dentist are just waiting for people to have the simulated mass casualty Where then they would come in and then we'd have to say, okay, this person goes here.

This person goes here We'd have to categorize them based on the types of injuries they had and so you might be out there for five [01:13:00] days And you get a mass casualty scenario that comes in once, maybe twice, you know, and then I'm just hoping somebody gets hurt so that I can like, take a look at an injury.

Uh, cause, cause you're supposed to, like, my job is like, I'm supposed to be at this, uh, this hospital tent, you know, like in case this mass casualty happens. And so I, I remember being incredibly bored, uh, especially the last one that we did. And it was, it was like me and the dentist. And then honestly, dude, we would just like, I would just talk to him.

Uh, or we would be studying. I was studying for the, for my board certification at the time. And I could only do that for so long. Uh, before you're just like, I can't do this shit anymore. So, and, and you're sleeping out there too, man. So you're just like, you know, all day. Waiting and, and then, but then you need to be, uh, ready in case something happened.

That's actually the most strange thing about it is like, you can't just be passive. You have to be, you know, learning the information you have to learn because you've treated this as it's going to be a real life scenario. So, you know, there's like this [01:14:00] level of stress, but it's boring. So I would say like, that's the last time, but ever since we got out of the military, I can't tell you the last time that I was like legitimately bored because.

I just feel like we've packed so much into the last nine, 10 years that, uh, I haven't had a moment where I'm bored.

Joe: That was the thing. There's always something to do, but out there, there was nothing you could do. Yeah. Sometimes, but you know, it brings up another point to, um, you want to talk about a hard way to run your business and when they hit go and always being spry and ready, that's the way that fisheries manage, which was pretty neat.

Um, I don't know if anyone knows this, but you have this Bristol Bay system and there's five rivers. So again, and again, there's probably a business. Thing to pull here about complicated systems and how to get them together. But, um, you know, you got this big bay, five rivers feed, um, five rivers feed the bay.

And these sockeye salmon are going up into these five rivers. And it's not just that we're out there catching them. We actually have to work with the state biologists to figure out when we can do it. And so [01:15:00] there's literally a team of biologists at the head of each river, counting the salmon that go up.

So as that escapement number of salmon that enter the river to spawn goes up, we get more fishing time. Um, and this is where I'm getting to the point where in the beginning of the trip, we didn't know when we were able to fish. We would get on the boat and we'd have to listen to the public radio, NPR.

We'd have to listen to whatever their AM station was out there. And they would tell us there's this many river up in the fish. You guys who are fishing in this particular district, you guys can fish from this window to that. So that was the other weird part. Like in the beginning, we had time to manage and we knew we had all this work to do, but you're just sitting there waiting to go.

But like the point is too, it's like, again, this is another thing about sports that I think was helpful. Like you would anticipate the big tournament, but you always knew when it was coming. You knew when it was going. One of the harder parts about the trip was sometimes you didn't know when the work day was [01:16:00] starting.

You didn't know when it was over. And especially at the end, because at the end, once all the escapement numbers are hit and all the rivers, you're just open fishing. So the other part about it was in the beginning, we had all this anticipation about when we could fish and how we're going to get it. Then at the end.

You end up going into these grinder 18, 24 hour work days where you don't know when you're stopping. So it's a wild system in that regard. And um, that's a tough thing to manage. I mean, I'm sure someone like you or me. Everything's so schedule, schedule dependent, you know, one of the things at the beginning of every school year is everyone's talking about the bell schedule.

Are these kids going to get three minutes to pass or four minutes to pass? And we're so worked up on these little minutes, but, um, the weird part about being on that boat was the opposite. You're just these giant chunks of time that aren't scheduled at all, but then you're waiting to do something that is on a tight schedule.

It's a, it's

Danny: a, that's the opposite. It seems like complete opposite of what we deal with on a day to [01:17:00] day basis.

Joe: It's weird in a different way, right? So, um, listen, man, it, it, it, it challenged everything from how I look at time and do things in it to, I don't know that that was another weird component of it.

Danny: Well, I think that even the getting out of your normal, um, routine is something that is, um, You know, it's worth doing just, just in general, right? Like, and so many of us, we have, we do the same thing and it can be comfortable because, uh, your body adjusts to that, you know? And, uh, yeah, you know, when you're going to, you know, when you're going to eat, you know, when you're going to go to the bathroom, you know, when you got work, you know, when you have, you know, kids stuff.

Um, and I, I think that's a. It's just honestly, man, I mean, it's funny, like, listen, like, or having this conversation, it's just so apparent how, um, if you're not, if you're not actually paying attention that you just get sucked into [01:18:00] whatever is happening around you, you know, the, the, the norm. And in fact, I, I was listening to this podcast and this guy made this reference, which was interesting.

He was basically talking about a lot of different things, uh, uh, how this could be applied, but he has this, this concept of, he talks about like, imagine you're standing on a beach. And this fish just comes like crawling up on the beach. It stands up and it looks back over at the water and, and you're like, what's up fish?

It's like, Hey, what's up? And you're like, what are you doing here? He goes, man, I just got out of the water. And, uh, it's crazy in there. Everybody's doing this, this and this. Uh, everybody's swimming the same direction, you know, over here and he's like, I just had to get out of that. And it's like, when you're in it, you, you, you don't realize it.

You're just, you're just one of those fish swimming along. But all of a sudden, if you come out and all of a sudden you're standing there and you look back, you're like, whoa, wait a second. I don't know if that is what we should be doing or I'm not sure if that is what. What, uh, [01:19:00] I want my life to look like or the way I should view things.

And I think you have to do things in your life to take you out of that, that swimming with everybody, swimming with all, you know, all this, everybody in the same, same direction. And we're all creatures of. Of habit, but also we're tribal in a lot of ways, and we're just we're doing what people around us are doing because we don't want to, you know, stick out so much, but as soon as you take yourself out of that, and you can realize like, well, is that actually what I want to do?

Is that what I want my life to look like? Is that the intention that I have that or am I being intentional with how I'm living my life? Because I mean, dude, you said it's like it's a dangerous place for you to work and you get a near death experience. And all of a sudden, you probably treat the time that you have a bit different, right?

And the decisions that you make. So I think for a lot of people, uh, They're just that fish swimming around in the, in the water and they never ever crawl out and look back and like, Oh shit, is that actually what I want to do? Or is that just what I'm doing? Because that's how, that's what I was born into or what is around me.

Joe: Yeah, no, yeah, no, I'm with you that, that, that, that, that, I mean [01:20:00] taking, taking this time does make you reflect on what you need to do. And I think that actually has been the hardest part about coming back is finding what, what to trim to mirror some of that. Yeah. That makes sense because it is enjoyable, I think, to have a singular focus on stuff and there's, and I think there's concepts why we all think we multitask, but that's not what we're doing.

We just switch from one thing to another. And every time you switch, you kind of take a step back, right? So, um, when you do have that singular purpose and you can work towards that, it's nice to just be focused on that. And that's been the hardest part about coming back. I mean, um, and figuring out what to trim so I can enjoy it.

Yeah. Regular days as much as those hard days, right? Yeah.

Danny: Well, I guess that's it, right? So like if you could sum it up, yeah in in a lesson that you say like man this is the most important thing I took away from [01:21:00] this and If you if you don't want to go get on a boat for six weeks and pull salmon off the lines Take like stomp your foot.

This is the lesson. I learned like what would you say it was? Well, I don't know. I mean

Joe: don't we I don't know I do these I do these woodsy things Because I like To simplify stuff and just do hard stuff. So the heart, the lesson there is to just how to prioritize, I guess. And, and I'm still having a hard time with it now.

And I don't know why that is. Right. So, so here's the question. How come we could sort out a prioritization process to take a six week trip to just live on this boat, but then when we come back into this normal reality, you can't do that. And then you find yourself instantly right away doing 13 things in a day, right?

I don't know why that still is. Why? The how do you combat modern [01:22:00] society? It's been still the question. And how do you find balance with it? And I don't know if I'm finding that answer. I don't know if taking the six week Misogi is the right answer, but you got to have something in For me, it's finding balance with it.

And it's, I don't know if there's a lesson in it, but you have to, you have to keep pushing that balance. I don't know what it is. You should do hard things and challenge yourself. But the biggest lesson is at least for me, I don't like speaking for other people, but, um, You got to challenge the, you got to swim against the modern current somehow, I don't know how, whether that's, uh, detoxing from your phone or taking a hike or, or getting on a boat or being bored.

But, um, I find value in that and, and for me, the hardest lesson moving forward is how to keep integrating it without alienating my family and friends because you can't. I can't keep

Danny: doing it. Well, you can't keep doing that. But, I mean, I think what you're saying, and this is, I think, a really good point for people, is like, [01:23:00] you, you feel that you need to do something different.

You feel like something, something is, uh, not in, it's incongruent with, with, uh, the way, you know, your, your body and your mind feel like they need to be used. And, uh, and, You come back and you're, yeah, your instantly, your schedule is like jam packed. There's no downtime. Uh, your kids are the same way. And, but yet, if you don't do that, then you're, you know, perceived as, uh, like you're going against the grain.

Right? And they're not necessarily a good, that's not necessarily a, a good thing in, uh, in a community either, right? So it's a catch 22. What, you know, what do you, how do you have elements of the individualization that, you know, you feel like you really need and, and, and not do some of the things that you really, uh, you know, realize that maybe are not great for you.

You know, it's like, you can't just throw your phone in the, in the river, uh, and never talk to anybody. You still gotta be able to communicate, you know, and, but you [01:24:00] also can't let it. Run your life and, and just get stuck. And I've been here like just doing work all the time on my phone. And it's just like this thing that just this external computer and it's, it's a blessing and a curse for the stupid thing, uh, that needs to be managed correctly.

Otherwise it becomes a problem, right? So I think it's a challenging problem and maybe it's something that we can leave everybody with, with that is like, think about it for yourself, right? Like what things are you doing right now that, you know, you shouldn't be, that you should cut out that, uh, that there are not.

Healthy for you, you know, that are not adding to your life, if anything, they're taken away from it, but because you're nervous or you're, you're, you're scared that if you do that, you know, you're going to alienate people that, that are, you know, dependent on you or are important to you. Um, like making that decision is, I think it's tough and some of the, everybody individually pretty, pretty much has to, they think about and decide on what to do.

Yeah, that's, I mean.

Joe: It's hard. I don't know how else to say that. It's funny how hard this modern existence can be in [01:25:00] that regard, to do what really you want to do, but find a balance with doing that. Because you can't just do it all the time. You can't just be this selfish prick that, I'm doing this because that's what I'm doing.

Although, I'm sure you know some people who, I mean, those guys seem, I mean, do you think, I don't know. Guys like that maybe are happy because they're doing what they want. I don't know, but, uh, that's been, that's been the toughest part to kind of figure that out and how to manage that, but

Danny: it's tough, man.

It comes down to like I think everybody's definition of, uh, what gives them happiness is different. You know, I can tell you for me, I'm happiest whenever I'm like working together with other people to, to complete a goal of some sort. Right. And so, and especially if I feel like that goal adds value to other people's lives in a significant way, that could be You know, nonprofit work, like what Ashley used to do whenever she was, you know, before she started, uh, you know, running athletes potential.

It could be, uh, working with clients that we work with [01:26:00] that are helping build, build these, these practices that really make a meaningful difference in other people's lives. Um, I mean, dude, it could, it could literally be. Help, uh, help running something with, um, the school where our kids go. It could be coaching and with another coach and, and helping like develop people, I think for, for me, I get a lot of personal satisfaction out of that.

And I, and it's, it doesn't feel selfish at all. If anything, it's, it's the most unselfish things that I do. I get the most, um, personal satisfaction out of, right. So like, I, I do seek those things out, but there's a, there's a. Uh, a fine line that you can cross over pretty easily if you just give, give, give, give, and you never, ever have any time to just, uh, you know, be, uh, yourself or be, be alone or have downtime.

Um, and then next thing you know, you're overwhelmed and stressed out. And, and, uh, I've been on both sides of that and it is. It's just really understanding where your red line is and what is comfortable for you to be able to sustain. Uh, and it's hard to say no to stuff too. It's so hard to say no to people, uh, and to, and [01:27:00] to opportunities and all kinds of stuff.

So like, I, I think it's just such an individual thing where everybody has to understand their own set point, what, what gives them meaning and happiness. And it's not always going to be the same because some other people might be like, I hate working together with people, you know, like that's fine. That's, that's, that's them.

I guess the

Joe: only way to get there is to test it, try stuff, do things right. You know, put something on the calendar. I don't know, but we all have a, I guess the other thing, we really screwed up the book because you're not supposed to talk about Misogi, right. But we spent the whole time doing it, but you know, not to bring it up again, but like, um, I guess, I don't know, everyone probably has a Misogi cup and you need to be filling it every now and then, you know, and.

Know what that is for you or how you're doing it. But, um, I mean, I guess, and as you're kind of working through it and working through those little tests that you give yourself, you'll figure out what you can do. So you got to keep pushing it and try and varied ways to do it, you know, so. You know, if you, if you can get on a Bristol Bay bow picker, go for it.

That'll test it in all degrees, you know, and I, and if anyone's interested [01:28:00] in looking at it, seriously, it is, it is as simple as, um, uh, Bristol Bay fishing jobs on a Facebook page. You can look at it, but there are other things you can do. Um, you can work tenders, uh, you can work in the canneries, which is a wild spot.

There were things like that that we did, but there are opportunities, but, um, you can also just go on a really long hike without your phone, right? You know, hike, hike a mile, hike a 5k and start sorting it out that way. And I think you'll find reward

Danny: in it. Yeah. That's a great point, guys. I think that's probably a great spot to, uh, You know, to, to leave it, Joe, this was, uh, it's cool to hear about your experience, man.

It's like always fun to catch up as, as always. Um, those of you that, uh, you know, you're newer to listen to this podcast, you know, maybe you don't, uh, know Joe quite as well, uh, go listen to, you know, I don't know if the Doc and Jock episodes are still up or not, but I think there are a certain amount that you can go back and listen to if you want to hear.

You know, our thoughts on training, conditioning and health and wellness and, and, uh, and all that, it is [01:29:00] a bit different to have a conversation that we would, we normally would, uh, would have, but it's cool to see how, what's what I find interesting. And this is something that I just like really enjoy seeing, uh, with you, Joe is just like how much.

Just like you've, you evolve as a person. You're always questioning things. You're always trying to grow and, and, uh, develop and, uh, experience different things. And I think that's a really, uh, admirable thing that, uh, not a lot of people do. And, uh, it's, it's fun to catch up. Cause I feel like every time when I talk to you, it's like, I'm talking to another version, right?

It's like, it's like you're, it's like Apple's updating version or whatever, right? They just plugged into you.

Joe: Talk to Eliza to see if I've really been updating. I don't know if it's a regression. I think it might be a regression, but, uh, listen, I don't know. I think the best quality I have is I'm super curious and I'm not willing.

I'm I'm, I want to always scratch that itch. I'm just, I don't know if there's an itch, I'm going to keep scratching it, you know, until there's something else to scratch at, you know what I mean? So, and I've been really fortunate [01:30:00] to have some cool experiences that I can chase down and have people help me do it.

It has not been. It's, it's not been done alone for sure. Right. So Eliza has something to do with it. My parents and family had something to do with it coming up. So, um, I don't know. And the people around me, like you, who are interesting enough and curious enough to ask questions and keep talking about it, it's nice to be able to share it.

So thank you for that. That I'll take.

Danny: Thank you for sure. All right. Well guys, I thank you so much for listening to the podcast, Joe. Thanks for your time this morning, man. I really appreciate it. I know you're back to the grind of doing all different things that you do. And, uh, hopefully you guys like this one.

If you do, uh, take a screenshot of it, you know, uh, put it on Instagram, tag us in it, and, uh, we'll go ahead and, uh, you know, we'll make sure to reshare that where can people, uh, reach out to you if they're interested too, by the way, Joe, uh, you know, if you're using technology these days, are you all done? I got,

Joe: listen, I got off, I completely ditched the social media.

They can

Danny: text

Joe: me, if they have questions about fishing or strength or whatever, actually Joe at athletes [01:31:00] potential. That's probably the best email because I'm still doing a remote, remote coaching with the folks over there, um, and helping out in that regard. So yeah, if they're interested in it, yes.

Danny: I'll throw, yeah, I'll throw a little plug in very, if you listen, if you want to get a remote coach, you just got an hour and a half of what you're dealing with, with this guy and the programs he has are awesome, but more than anything, it's just a, you know, a great coach that'll hold you accountable.

So yeah, hit them up if you, uh, you want to get in a, you want to get a better shape for your Masogi. Yeah, put the, yeah, so you

Joe: know, the email, put that one on there. If they want to work it out, yeah, we'll get them going. It'd be great.

Danny: Awesome. All right, guys. Well, as always, thanks for, uh, for listening and we'll catch you next week.

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